Whats your opinion on arranged marriage?

[qassy!]

Hello All,

This is a just a topic on arranged marriage, now thankfully my parents will not be forcing me into an arranged marriage. (Im 17 and I dont going to be married until 22-25) Nor my sister is going to be forced into an arranged marriage I wont let it happen :)

BUT here's a few questions:

Do you mind an arranged marriage? (If your not married yet)
Would you force your daughter into an arranged marriage?

I said daughter because you here stoys like the one below about Muslim sisters being murdered or committing suicide because they dont want an arranged marriage.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3171311.ece - I think her parents killed her!

It really gets to me why parents force there daughters into arranged marriage!

And now I want your views on it and if you force your daughters into it why?

Notice I said daughters because I know quite a few Muslim sisters who have been forced into arranged marriages, and one of them killed them selves or the mother killed her daughter in Pakistan (Her parents took her 2 Pakistan as a holiday then told her about her getting an arranged marriage)

Also is arranged marriage you have 2 do in Islam? Because its always Muslim people!

[Ali.]

Hello :)

Do you mind an arranged marriage? (If your not married yet)
Would you force your daughter into an arranged marriage?
!

First question: Umm..I think when I'm older my parents said they will try to look for a wife for me, but not force me into it. That, I don't mind.

Second question: If I had a daughter, then NO WAY!

[qassy!]

Hello :)





First question: Umm..I think when I'm older my parents said they will try to look for a wife for me, but not force me into it. That, I don't mind.

Second question: If I had a daughter, then NO WAY!

Yeah when I get abit older my parents will look for a wife, but I dont mind they wont force me either nor my sister

[------]

:salamext:

Do you mind an arranged marriage? (If your not married yet)

Nope.

Would you force your daughter into an arranged marriage?

Nope.

However, arranged marriages make sense, as you are not supposed to know the other gender intimately before marriage anyway. Just my two cents.

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[mohsen1985]

I believe a person should be able to choose their own spouse, and listening to your parent's advice on marriage and whom you're marrying helps a lot.

I'm fully against arranged marriages!

[جوري]

Marriages happen whatever way they happen..
the idea of a match maker is an ancient craft and exists in the west as well, all you need to do is turn on yout TV to see commercials for
eharmony, or match.com or matched in manhattan.. for centuries people have been happy being brought together by a third party..
I don't know anyone that has been arranged into a marriage personally, though I have seen folks make recommendations to one another..

:w:

[qassy!]

I don't know anyone that has been arranged into a marriage personally, though I have seen folks make recommendations to one another..

:w:

I do
her parents where taking her on holiday and then a sudden shock 2 her she was going to get married..........The next day she was burnt alive her parents said oil caught her clothes......i know her brothers killed her because she didn't want arranged marriage she..was very close 2 me.............she was only 17...........

That's why this topic really gets 2 me I want to know someone who WILL force there daughter into arrange marriage so i can understand WHY they do it idiots...

[------]

:salamext:

Personally, I think arranged marriages are recommended in Islam.

- Note, I said Arranged, NOT Forced. They are 2 different things.

[islamirama]

I do
her parents where taking her on holiday and then a sudden shock 2 her she was going to get married..........The next day she was burnt alive her parents said oil caught her clothes......i know her brothers killed her because she didn't want arranged marriage she..was very close 2 me.............she was only 17...........

That's why this topic really gets 2 me I want to know someone who WILL force there daughter into arrange marriage so i can understand WHY they do it idiots...

She was very close to you?

Perhaps this is the issue. Many pakistani families go into west for whatever reason they see fit. And many of these desi have cultural mentality and cultural upbringing. There's very little islam and more culture in their life. As if that is not bad enough, more than 1/2 the culture is hindu based. So these families go to west and then the parents start working like crazy to support the family or daddy works hard and mommy busy socializing in community. Either way, the children are left in the hands of the school and the society they live in now. Children grow up in a whole new culture with a whole new mentality without being taught Islam or anything.

So when the parents see their daughters wanting to dress in skirts and western clothing and have guy friends and some even go into dating, the parents start panicing and guess what is the only logical reason for them to do? Let's get her married to a decent guy from back home so she stops all this haram way of life she starting to copy. Or the parents think their daughter thinks the same way as they do, or she can enjoy her life but when marriage comes then it will be MY way (cultural mentality).

All in all, there is plenty of blame to go around in this. Parents are to blame for the most part of failing to give their children proper upbringing and teach them about Islam. They themselves have limited knowledge and resort to cultural practices when they think girl is getting out of hand and honor of their family is on the line. It's children's fault as well. Many of these people may grow up in the west, they are not stupid (or are they?). They learn western education and even if they don't even have a clue about islam, they should have a clue about their family and it's mentality and values and norms, that alone should give them an idea of to stay way from the haraam stuff.

Of course, there are some daughters who are completely innocent and their parents are just too traditional with back home culture and has promised some brother/sister back home to marry to their kids when the daughter grows up.

all in all, arrange marriage is not bad but very good, islamic, and safe. There are two kinds of arrange marriage. There's the islamic way and then there is the hindu way where the girl doesn't have a say in the matter. Many pakistanis follow the hindu way. So don't blame the arrange marriage concept but rather the people for their lack of knowledge on Islam, they cultural mentality and their close mindedness in following something even if it's against Islam and yes blame the kids too as i said, plenty of blame to go around.

[Al-Zaara]

Do you mind an arranged marriage?

No.

Would you force your daughter into an arranged marriage?

If she's my daughter, she'd probably run away or make the husband-to-be hate her, or make his life a true living hell. So for the sake of remaining sane, I wouldn't do it.


On a more serious note, I would never force. I wouldn't want it to be done to me, so neither will I do it to somebody else.

[جوري]

I do
her parents where taking her on holiday and then a sudden shock 2 her she was going to get married..........The next day she was burnt alive her parents said oil caught her clothes......i know her brothers killed her because she didn't want arranged marriage she..was very close 2 me.............she was only 17...........

That's why this topic really gets 2 me I want to know someone who WILL force there daughter into arrange marriage so i can understand WHY they do it idiots...

That is horrific, I can't begin to imagine that...

Al-Khansaa’ bint Khidaam complained to the Prophet that her father wanted her to marry someone she didn’t want, saying “I do not wish to accept what my father has arranged.” The Prophet said, “Then this marriage is invalid, go and marry whomever you wish.” Al-Khansaa’ said, “I have actually accepted what my father has arranged, but I wanted women to know that fathers have no right in their daughter’s matters” (i.e. they have no right to force a marriage on them). (Fath Al-Barî Ibn Hajr, Sunan Ibn Mâjah)

:w:

[qassy!]

She was very close to you?

So when the parents see their daughters wanting to dress in skirts and western clothing and have guy friends and some even go into dating, the parents start panicing and guess what is the only logical reason for them to do? Let's get her married to a decent guy from back home so she stops all this haram way of life she starting to copy. Or the parents think their daughter thinks the same way as they do, or she can enjoy her life but when marriage comes then it will be MY way (cultural mentality).

Parents are to blame for the most part of failing to give their children proper upbringing and teach them about Islam.

It's children's fault as well. Many of these people may grow up in the west, they are not stupid (or are they?).


Of course, there are some daughters who are completely innocent and their parents are just too traditional with back home culture and has promised some brother/sister back home to marry to their kids when the daughter grows up.

Arranged marriage is fine if both parties ARE HAPPY

But she was a decent girl....see in London life is different, I have travelled alot been Pakistan etc etc and its totally different in London, girls in London well Muslim girls do not where skirts they dress decant ok there clothes are tight though e.g tight jeans etc etc
but you cant not talk 2 the oppsite gender its hard, almost impossible because of the way London is

but
still does mean you have 2 FORCE your daughter in marriage does it?

It was just on news saying put your daughters wealth before tradition or culture

Parents ARE 2 blame full stop.

You cant blame the kids


You cant blame anyone

If ther parents know daughters going out with boys etc etc
they need 2 speak 2 her not send her back home 2 get married you cant force ur own daughter / sister / cousin 2 get married its wrong
Is that what YOU would do?

[جوري]

May I ask what is wrong with wearing skirts?
I know I am not the most religious of people, but half my wardrobe is composed of skirts.. any Islamic clothing store sells skirts.. is there some sort of law against them?

http://www.shukronline.com/womens-skirts.html

:w:

[qassy!]

May I ask what is wrong with wearing skirts?
I know I am not the most religious of people, but half my wardrobe is composed of skirts.. any Islamic clothing store sells skirts.. is there some sort of law against them?

http://www.shukronline.com/womens-skirts.html

:w:

there fine I think
But skirts 2 girls in London is different! its short

[wildkat]

hey, why is everybody saying pakistanis?? its asians in general no just the pakistanis!

Anyways, there is nothing wrong with having an arranged marriage, I've seen plenty of my cousins go through it and they're all happily married now - can I also point out that they all had a say in the matter too!!!
My parents are also looking for someone for my sister to marry, shes currently finishing a phd at the mo and plenty of potential hubbys have come her way.. but shes refused all of them so far, why, it doesnt matter, its her choice my parents dont pressure her to say yes even if they liked "that one."
I realise that that forced marriages are quite common in south asian countries, and its so sad to hear all the stories, but people dont understand that its peoples backwards mentality that influences their decisions and not islam. Being a bit of a feminist.. :P I have read up everything I can in this area and I know that forced marriages in Islam are totally forbidden. If a girl is not happy to marry nobody has the right to force her, and if she is forced into making a decision the marriage is null. I was going to quote a hadith but sister Purest Ambrosia got there first!!

[------]

:salamext:

ok there clothes are tight though e.g tight jeans etc etc

Exactly.

but
still does mean you have 2 FORCE your daughter in marriage does it?

Force isn't even allowed in Islam.

Parents ARE 2 blame full stop.

I think the kids are to blame as well. When the parents dont pay attention to the kids, the kids end up being 'westernised', and the parents want to get them married off. Both parties are wrong.

If ther parents know daughters going out with boys etc etc
they need 2 speak 2 her not send her back home 2 get married you cant force ur own daughter / sister / cousin 2 get married its wrong
Is that what YOU would do?

I would speak to my daughter, but foremost I would bring her up Islamically, Inshaa Allaah, so she doesn't be 'westernised' in the first place.

[جوري]

there fine I think
But skirts 2 girls in London is different! its short

Not to beat a dead horse but I purchase most of my skirts from a store in England called tall and all

since I am 5'9 and many skirts come up slightly shorter than I'd like, I have no reason to believe that the ladies in England couldn't find proper length skirts if they wanted to..
It is a choice to wear short skirts, but I don't think England only makes short skirts.. aside from that I have lived there for a few years and have an idea about what is being sold..

:w:

[Danah]

well the arranged marriage has some advantages I guess.
for our family if there is a man come to us and wanna married a girl from our family without seeing her (he will at least has a picture of her in his mind by discription)
at the end, it will go the the girl decision if she agrees or not. no one can force her to it.

arrange marrige in my opinions avoiding the useless interaction between the two genders who almost take a long time doing nothing but knowing each other better (as they claimed).
but at the end many of them after the marriage discover that the other side was different that what he/she looks like before the marriage.

what I disagree about the arranged marriage is forcing the man or women to it. it need to be at the end by their decision.

[islamirama]

May I ask what is wrong with wearing skirts?
I know I am not the most religious of people, but half my wardrobe is composed of skirts.. any Islamic clothing store sells skirts.. is there some sort of law against them?

http://www.shukronline.com/womens-skirts.html

:w:

Skirts as in those above the ankle. Those long skirts are fine, even then some sisters get the real thin ones and they don't quite do the job :X

Arranged marriage is fine if both parties ARE HAPPY

But she was a decent girl....see in London life is different, I have travelled alot been Pakistan etc etc and its totally different in London, girls in London well Muslim girls do not where skirts they dress decant ok there clothes are tight though e.g tight jeans etc etc
but you cant not talk 2 the oppsite gender its hard, almost impossible because of the way London is

but
still does mean you have 2 FORCE your daughter in marriage does it?

It was just on news saying put your daughters wealth before tradition or culture

Parents ARE 2 blame full stop.

You cant blame the kids


You cant blame anyone

If ther parents know daughters going out with boys etc etc
they need 2 speak 2 her not send her back home 2 get married you cant force ur own daughter / sister / cousin 2 get married its wrong
Is that what YOU would do?

Parents AND kids are to blame for in many instances. Anyways, my last answer was clear enough on all this.

I would do arrange marriage the islamic way where there is no forcing involved. Parents dig up a guy, do research and background check on him and present him to the daughter, if she likes then move to step 2 and if not then back to step one and dig up another guy :D

[snakelegs]

i actually think arranged marriages may have positive sides. (only when they aren't forced, of course).
i would be interested to see divorce rates among people in the west whose marriage was arranged vs. those in western style marriages.
i think there is something to be said about marrying and then growing together to love each other as your share your lives over the years vs. big hollywood rush and unrealistic expectations and when it wears off, divorce.
but of course, if you don't come from that kind of culture, it would be impossible to introduce. also, even though arranged marriages are not supposed to be forced, i think force, or at least heavy pressure, is used too frequently by parents.

[adeeb]

i do agree with arranged marriage if both of the spouses fine...

but forced marriage, not..
today is 2008, and i hope the forced marriage would never exist anymore....

[Abdul-Raouf]

I go for arranged marriage...

BUT i dont wanna be forced to/And I dont want to force anyone to marry a particular person...

Insha'allah everything should happen fine... its HIM who desides.

[Intisar]

:sl: I see nothing wrong with arranged marriages, since they lean more towards an Islaamic way of getting married - which is the best way. :D But, it's how you and your parents going about setting you up, if it's forced then there's something wrong with it and can lead to even death sometimes, subhan Allaah (such as honour killings). :(

Me personally, I plan on getting married through purely Islaamic means and/or arranged two years from now when I am about twenty inshaa Allaah and suprisingly my mother is really happy about it alhamdulilah. Because we all know that when we give into fitnah and temptations the Shaydaan becomes the third party and marriages don't tend to last as long. As long you're going about it in an Islaamic way, because arranged marriages can be also classed as an Islaamic marriage, then mashaa Allaah your marriage will probably last longer.

Besides, love comes after marriage, fahamtu? :)

[truemuslim]

arranged marriage?... hmm... by force ... haram so.. NOWAY... but if like u wanna marry someone and all and ur parents arrange it and u want to marry the person.. perfect and halal way to get married. better than dating... staying years unmarried... then being depressed... or being forced to marry.. which both of these are haram... but normal halal arranged marriage is a good way to get married...

[krypton6]

Aranged marriage is also very popular in the asian and indian culture.

Personally I find it horrific to imagine myself living with a person that I'm not in love, for my entire life.

[sur]

Arranged marriage does NOT it has to be a "Forced" marriage against will bride or groom.

Arranged marriage in which bride & groom see each other BUT parents/elders do the detailed talk r most successful practically.

Love marriages without intervension of parents/elders r most flop practically.

[Intisar]

Aranged marriage is also very popular in the asian and indian culture.

Personally I find it horrific to imagine myself living with a person that I'm not in love, for my entire life.

:sl: Well if you've fallen in love with them before you were even married, then it would be haraam, no? Who's to say that your love for a person can't blossom later on?

I think we as Muslims, and as Westerners, need to rid ourselves of this pre-conceived notion that arranged marriages equate to being a forced marriage where you have no choice. If your mother arranges for you to meet him a sister, in a more than likely halaal way, and later you decide to get married and fall in love then that's considered an ''arranged marriage''. Unlike some, who go the haraam way about it, and their parents basically give them a spouse and that they have no choice in marrying them or not because the honour lies solely on the woman of the family, subhan Allaah. We know that this is not right, and it is prevalent in South-Asian households, but people need to stop mixing culture with religion. Religion overrides culture, full stop! And that's where this arranged = forced marriage thinking comes from.

[krypton6]

Arranged marriage does NOT it has to be a "Forced" marriage against will bride or groom.

Arranged marriage in which bride & groom see each other BUT parents/elders do the detailed talk r most successful practically.

Love marriages without intervension of parents/elders r most flop practically.

In an arranged marriage the bride & groom will as far as I know never be be able to speak to each other without the parents being in the same room.

Also, what is the detailed talk all about?

Love marriages as I see it are the best if you ask me, since both parts get to know each other before the actual marriage. It does not have to be dating each other, but just simply knowing each other, such as in school where you know this girl, have talked to her about school and such, ang have seen a bit of her personality and how she is.

[krypton6]

:sl: Well if you've fallen in love with them before you were even married, then it would be haraam, no? Who's to say that your love for a person can't blossom later on?

I fall in love with people without even talking to them, I hear them talking to others and from there I slowly create an description of the girl. I do not talk though other than what may be related to study.

[noorseeker]

salam. Some people on here are saying arranged marriages are wrong, but were MUSLIMS , what other way do you suppose. Theres a difference betwen arranged and forced.

I think the problem is girls beingtaken back home to get married, there is a clash of cultures , i will use my self as a example my mum wants me to go back home, but i dont want to because my native language is terrible and i will not be able to communicate to my wife

[sur]

In an arranged marriage the bride & groom will as far as I know never be be able to speak to each other without the parents being in the same room.

No it's not like that always. Though oft times they don't get to know each other by talking & sharing BUT can see each other or a photo of each other & decide whether they like the looks or not. Mostly in sub-continent it's groom who gets to see & decide about bride & bride just follows parents decision. It's not right though.


So it's semi-arranged, if u will. Parents look for girl, show her to groom, if he likes her, parents go & ask her hand for son. that's reply to following.

Also, what is the detailed talk all about?

[krypton6]

No it's not like that always. Though oft times they don't get to know each other by talking & sharing BUT can see each other or a photo of each other & decide whether they like the looks or not. Mostly in sub-continent it's groom who gets to see & decide about bride & bride just follows parents decision. It's not right though.

I would never marry a woman before talking with her first and understanding her a bit, a photo quite simply is not enough.

I see arranged marriage identical to forced marriage; in both you do not get to know the bride/groom before the actual marriage and that could be misleading marriages.

[sur]

I would never marry a woman before talking with her first and understanding her a bit, a photo quite simply is not enough.

I see arranged marriage identical to forced marriage; in both you do not get to know the bride/groom before the actual marriage and that could be misleading marriages.

i am not supporting or opposing any particular type.

It's just the way it is in most muslim countries, i think.

But believe me , arranged & so-called forced marriages r more successful than love marriages. Many times couple meets for 1st time on their D-day & still live whole life happily together.

proof is 40-60% divorce rate in WEST -vs- <1% in India.

[------]

:salamext:

There should be a poll added to this thread called:

Do you agree with arranged marriages?

[qassy!]

:salamext:

There should be a poll added to this thread called:

Do you agree with arranged marriages?

Just added

i
But believe me , arranged & so-called forced marriages r more successful than love marriages. Many times couple meets for 1st time on their D-day & still live whole life happily together.

See how can you say arranged marriage is better? If I have ever met the girl, how do I know I will like her?

I would never marry a woman before talking with her first and understanding her a bit, a photo quite simply is not enough.

I see arranged marriage identical to forced marriage; in both you do not get to know the bride/groom before the actual marriage and that could be misleading marriages.

Agreed.

But what I will not mind, is my parents help me choose the right girl, but then I need some time alone with her, 2 chat cuz I cant just marry someone I met 4 a day or a week!

[Omari]

Sure, I like many others would never force somone into arranged marriage. That said, Islam definatly forbids the modern, Girlfreind/ Boyfreind relationship BEFORE marriage. So if being against arranged marriage is for the sake of such a thing, then i strongly support arranged marriages.
Most arranged marriages last a long time, and statistics have shown that most love marriages end in divorce.
So yes i support arranged marriages
And if my daughter (when i have one) does not want to get arranged married to the person i have brought for her, then i want her to introduce me to a person she would like to marry, after all its her life and not mine. so she should choose, i would simply want the best for my daughter :)

peace be with all of you,
Omari

[qassy!]

LET ME Add somthing

You know arranged marriages is it the same as forced? Your not letting the daughter choose her own husband ??

Omari: Bruv, "when" you have a daughter, if she brings you a man, will you be upset with her?

[Omari]

Certainly not, if the person can support my daughter and help her raise a family of her own, then i will sit down with him with a cup of tea and discuss with him. Then i will invite his parents or relatives over so we can discuss nikkah time. Simple as that. There is no force in islam. and thus i have no right to use any

[------]

:salamext:

Bruv… bruv! Try and understand something here. Your parents know what is best for you, and they will find a suitable girl! You’re only young yet, so you have many desires…

[krypton6]

Try and understand something here. Your parents know what is best for you, and they will find a suitable girl! You’re only young yet, so you have many desires…

No regarding love it is rare for parents to know the true concept of it. I know what I want in a woman, my parents do not, I know myself better than what my parents know. I will take their advice and listen to them, but I will never follow and execute any orders that I do not agree on, wether it may cost me my relationship with them or not.

[krypton6]

See how can you say arranged marriage is better? If I have ever met the girl, how do I know I will like her?

Yes exactly. There risk is much higher for you not to like her than for you to like her, (he).

But what I will not mind, is my parents help me choose the right girl, but then I need some time alone with her, 2 chat cuz I cant just marry someone I met 4 a day or a week!

Or a month (s).

Well in Islam you cannot talk to her personally so .... The only solution is to find a girl from your own life (school and such) that you have noticed is nice, you can then inform your parents and they can ask her parents.

But what if she is christian? How are we supossed to inform her or get to know her, when her culture clearly does not fit my culture, of where the groom informs the brides family and of which the laws and rules are strict during talking and conversations.

Most arranged marriages last a long time, and statistics have shown that most love marriages end in divorce. So yes i support arranged marriages.

Well I trully believe that woman and men in aranged marriages do not know the concept of Love, for I can without a doubt conclude for myself that arranged couples rarely fall in love.

You should also know that divorce in the islamic culture or asian culture is a bit rare. It probably has to do with "honour" in most sittuations, I could imagine the man threatening his wife and saying that divorcing would take his honour and that he would not allow the wife to do to him. (ridiculous for that is not what honour is about).

[Omari]

Well I trully believe that woman and men in aranged marriages do not know the concept of Love, for I can without a doubt conclude for myself that arranged couples rarely fall in love.

This is from an article: [click here to view the full article]
Can love grow out of an arranged marriage? Absolutely, and in the same way that love can grow in romance novels from a marriage of convenience. But there’s more to love than finding a suitable match. Love can grow for many reasons, from lust at first sight to friendship that develops over a long period of time. It’s impossible to predict whether a union will be successful. The only two people who can make it work are the bride and groom, the hero and heroine of their own story.

Besides, love marriages are haram, [in most cases] so you dont have much of a choice. lol

[ricardo_sousa]

"love" is one of the engines of the world trough the time.. just look at the paintings, music, buildings created in name of "love"... And arranged marriages end with the "true love": where a man and woman cross eyes and "fall in love".. and all the fight to have each other. that fight can really move mountains.

A society who neglects such feeling, is neglecting one of the greatest sources of creativity, inspiration, strength.... And becomes "stagnated".

I am a romantic, I know...lol

[Omari]

i agree, the most fundamental thing in human nature is infact love.
Science has been able to explain how love works, I who was interested in the topic decided to do some research. They say it is a chemical "cocktail" that rushes down to your system when you see an attractive person. [the act of hormones and testosterone]
but how does that explain the love for parents? the love for country? the love of peace?
these questions remain unanswered.
But to stick to the topic HERE is a VERY interesting article I found. here is how it concludes

HOW TO FALL IN LOVE (3 steps)
Find a complete stranger.

Reveal to each other intimate details about your lives for half an hour.

Then, stare deeply into each other’s eyes without talking for four minutes.

York psychologist, Professor Arthur Arun, has been studying why people fall in love.

He asked his subjects to carry out the above 3 steps and found that many of his couples felt deeply attracted after the 34 minute experiment. Two of his subjects later got married.

[------]

:salamext:

Well, for girls I think it is best if the parents have an arranged marriage. Guys as well. Just my opinion.

[ayesha309]

HOW TO FALL IN LOVE (3 steps)
Find a complete stranger.

Reveal to each other intimate details about your lives for half an hour.

Then, stare deeply into each other’s eyes without talking for four minutes.

York psychologist, Professor Arthur Arun, has been studying why people fall in love.

He asked his subjects to carry out the above 3 steps and found that many of his couples felt deeply attracted after the 34 minute experiment. Two of his subjects later got married.

that is very interseting bro!

[Omari]

just wanted to prove a point to our brother ricardo...

[Woodrow]

Arraigned marriage and forced marriage are to different things. There is nothing wrong with concerned parents trying to find the best spouse for their child. It is wrong for a parent to force their child to accept the choice.

Or in my case there was nothing wrong with my daughter trying to find me a wife. In fact she had found a very good choice. It was only because of outside conditions it was not possible.

[snakelegs]

"love" is one of the engines of the world trough the time.. just look at the paintings, music, buildings created in name of "love"... And arranged marriages end with the "true love": where a man and woman cross eyes and "fall in love".. and all the fight to have each other. that fight can really move mountains.

A society who neglects such feeling, is neglecting one of the greatest sources of creativity, inspiration, strength.... And becomes "stagnated".

I am a romantic, I know...lol

you have a point.
but i think that what most of us in the west see as "love" is nothing but sexual attraction and when the excitement wears off, so does the "love", which is why such a huge percentage of marriages end in divorce.
love and sexual attraction are not at all the same thing.

[Omari]

Woodrow, what do you think would be a solution if your daughter, [I apologise for using her as an example], decided to [god forbid] do somthing wrong that is against the shariah and Islam. Would you then use force to stop her?
peace be with you.
[The reason i used your daughter is becuase questions are answered much better when it relates to personal experience]
Omari

[ricardo_sousa]

Arraigned marriage and forced marriage are to different things. There is nothing wrong with concerned parents trying to find the best spouse for their child. It is wrong for a parent to force their child to accept the choice.

good point and good way of looking into the question.

In fact, in China"arranged marriages" are rising, because people are too busy working and don&#180;t have time to find a partner! :giggling:

[ricardo_sousa]

just wanted to prove a point to our brother ricardo...

lol, I didn´t understand that..

[Woodrow]

Woodrow, what do you think would be a solution if your daughter, [I apologise for using her as an example], decided to [god forbid] do somthing wrong that is against the shariah and Islam. Would you then use force to stop her?
peace be with you.
[The reason i used your daughter is becuase questions are answered much better when it relates to personal experience]
Omari

It is impossible for a person to know what they would do in a hypothetical situation. My yougest daughter is 40 years old. I am quite certain my choices now would be quite different than when she was younger.

When she was younger she was quite the individual and to be honest often a very difficult young woman. She did attempt many very discouraged things. Even being non-Muslim at the time I did use all of the force legally permitted to stop her from some of her activities.

So the question of using force, is not a quetion, as my past has shown I would not be hesitant to use it. Now the question is how much force? That is clearly stated in the Qur'an.

I know I am forbidden to personally harm her or cause her pain or to even force her to do anything against her will. However, if worse comes to worse the laws of the land and the courts can be used as long as they are not haram.

[Omari]

lol, I didn´t understand that..

how do you not understand something written in English? go back a few posts and read the article, I kinda gave YOU the evidence you need to prove your point about love, but then I said my point which was left unanswered.

[sur]

See how can you say arranged marriage is better? If I have ever met the girl, how do I know I will like her?

stats say it, as i mentioned in my post that divorce rate in USA is given to be 40% by Govt. while as 60% by a psychiatry book. as opposed to divorce rate in India which is less than 1%.

Things don't always work according to our logic, sometimes unknown factors make results different than what we expect. We think that logically love marriage should work better BUT ground reality tells the opposite.

In aranged marriages love starts after marriage & persist for life, while in love marriages love starts before marriage & fades away pretty soon(most of times not always.)

[qassy!]

the problem is here, everyone is obsessed with statics here, i mean common the generation has changed......arranged marriage cant work anymore in my opinion.

I cant just love some random person, that I only known for a week or no its impossible!

[ricardo_sousa]

stats say it, as i mentioned in my post that divorce rate in USA is given to be 40&#37; by Govt. while as 60% by a psychiatry book. as opposed to divorce rate in India which is less than 1%.

and since when that is good measurement? How do you know that many of the marriages in India are not unhappy ones, that people just remain married "to look good"?? Not to talk that India, despite the remarkable last years evolution, still remains a poor country in lots of regions, and women can&#180;t work, so they need their marriage to "survive", not because they like it.

[ricardo_sousa]

how do you not understand something written in English? go back a few posts and read the article, I kinda gave YOU the evidence you need to prove your point about love, but then I said my point which was left unanswered.

no, no that. I find the article interesting, but didn´t connect with I have said. Anyway, I found the "fall in love process" too difficult in "simple ways"..

[ayesha309]

personally i think arranged marriages are good; not forced marriages. and to answer your questions bro qassy "If I have never met the girl, how do I know I will like her?"; you will like her becuase she is a good Muslim and becuase Allah has asked you to like her. thus if you go for an arragned marriage and love your spouse for the sake of Allah, Insha'Allah your life will be blessed.

[Omari]

personally i think arranged marriages are good; not forced marriages. and to answer your questions bro qassy "If I have never met the girl, how do I know I will like her?"; you will like her becuase she is a good Muslim and becuase Allah has asked you to like her. thus if you go for an arragned marriage and love your spouse for the sake of Allah, Insha'Allah your life will be blessed.

Just to contrast that, with your permission ofcourse.
When the parents agree [arranged marriage] often the groom-to-be and the bride-to-be meet, talk and discuss things about them. And this automatically [read the article] brings the effect of love into their ...minds.

So I disagree with qassy! because arranged marriages are still happening today, and they are still proving to be the most successful way of getting married. [of the 3]

[NoName55]

you have a point.
but i think that what most of us in the west see as "love" is nothing but sexual attraction and when the excitement wears off, so does the "love", which is why such a huge percentage of marriages end in divorce.
love and sexual attraction are not at all the same thing.

thank you!!!

many posters here are confusing lust with love, but to explain that I'll need to delve in to realms of almost obscene detail.

Re: arranged marriages:

thread starter is using the practice of some formerly poverty stricken (and still illiterate) third world people --- who use their children to bring their relative out of poverty through marriage --- to discredit the arranged marriage system where a matchmaker may be used to find a suitable partner for someone where consent is always required, sought and given.

its like saying
all Muslims are busy terrorizing westerns
all Italians are mafiosi
all Hindus sacrifice babies to kali
all Americans are busy robbing Muslim countries' resources
All Saudi Scholars can either be bought for a few dollars or are on payroll of Saud family

and etcetera etcetera

[krypton6]

HOW TO FALL IN LOVE (3 steps)
Find a complete stranger.

Reveal to each other intimate details about your lives for half an hour.

Then, stare deeply into each other’s eyes without talking for four minutes.

York psychologist, Professor Arthur Arun, has been studying why people fall in love.

He asked his subjects to carry out the above 3 steps and found that many of his couples felt deeply attracted after the 34 minute experiment. Two of his subjects later got married.

Well I highly doubt that people could get in love in 34 minutes.

But why try get in love with a person? Love is something that comes to you, you don't create it yourself, it is not supposed to be created by you.
True love is when you see a girl on the street and would without a doubt take a bullet for her, that without even knowing her or having talked to her.

The other love is created love; You get together with a person and end up being with each other many hours a day, you start building up the relationship
believing that it is your duty to do so, and believing that, THAT is love. But if you ask me I would not call that love.

I suppose I believe in love at first sight!

[Omari]

then my brother, you are a victim of the illusion created by the 'chemical cocktails' . Not saying its a bad thing. Omari

[ricardo_sousa]

I think "lust" is a necessary part of "love".... without "sexual attraction" is difficult to love someone. But that is not bad, it is just another part of "the love process".

[------]

:salamext:

I suppose I believe in love at first sight!

That's called 'attraction' mate.

[crayon]

It depends what is meant by "arranged marriage".
If it's the kind that's planned ever since the man and woman are children, and they don't even know each other, then I disagree with that.
If it's a forced marriage, I definitely disagree.

This is how I think marriage should be. Either some guy/their mother/relatives/whatever is interested in a woman. They come over to meet the family. If things go well, the couple meet in supervision of the families, and they talk, to see if their personalities are compatible. After several of these meetings, if they get along and are compatible, they get married. If they don't, then that's the end of it, no harm done. Imho, anyway.

[NoName55]

I think "lust" is a necessary part of "love".... without "sexual attraction" is difficult to love someone. But that is not bad, it is just another part of "the love process".

do you lust after your mom? siblings?your children?your pets?

[ricardo_sousa]

do you lust after your mom? siblings?your children?your pets?

That&#180;s different love. You can&#180;t compare the "love between two strangers" with the examples you said.

I will quote one source of Islam to reply to you:

Narrated Abu Huraira: "The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, `A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. '"


So..... the importance of "beauty", that is very different from person to person, is already implied in Islam. And "beauty" has a very close relation with "lust" and "sexual attraction".

[------]

:salamext:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder :D

Narrated Abu Huraira: "The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, `A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. '"

In that, religion comes first :)

[NoName55]

That&#180;s different love. You can&#180;t compare the "love between two strangers" with the examples you said.

I will quote one source of Islam to reply to you:

Narrated Abu Huraira: "The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, `A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. '"


So..... the importance of "beauty", that is very different from person to person, is already implied in Islam. And "beauty" has a very close relation with "lust" and "sexual attraction".

I dare not reply to your rubbish anymore until an adult mod comes on line (if I reply before he is on, the way I want to, a power mad moddes will get this thread moved to one of her forums to be able to zap them like yesterday)

`A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. '"

`A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman [otherwise] you will be a loser.'"

[ricardo_sousa]

I dare not reply to your rubbish anymore until an adult mod comes on line (if I reply before he is on, the way I want to, a power mad moddes will get this thread moved to one of her forums to be able to zap them like yesterday)

Like always, when things look bad to your side, you just start trying yo "kill the thread" and "call the mods" to delete everything you don´t like, and something they do that.

[ricardo_sousa]

`A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman [otherwise] you will be a loser.'"

In that, religion comes first :)

So, "beauty" isn´t the most important thing, but is considered... that´s all I wanted to point out.

[NoName55]

general situation: `A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. << NOT a command to do something

What we should do:
So you should marry the religious woman [otherwise] you will be a loser.'"

[krypton6]

:salamext:
That's called 'attraction' mate.

No I dont think so. I pass by very atractive woman everyday, but it is very rare that I fall in love with them, in fact both of the times that I fell in true love were at first sight. I would never risk my life and marry someone who I have no idea if I will get to love or not. Its just a stupid thing to do, and only those who have never known to true love would do so.

[------]

:salamext:

Its just a stupid thing to do, and only those who have never known to true love would do so.

How do u know if I have or I haven't been in love?! Don't make assumptions.

Love grows over a period of time. It doesn't happen 'suddenly'.

[YusufNoor]

you have a point.
but i think that what most of us in the west see as "love" is nothing but sexual attraction and when the excitement wears off, so does the "love", which is why such a huge percentage of marriages end in divorce.
love and sexual attraction are not at all the same thing.

:sl:

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance, and Snakelegs too!

this reminds me of a lecture by Mufti Ismail Menk. in said lecture, the Mufti attributed the "sexual attraction" to Shaytaan because Shaytaan is just trying to get the 2 people to commit zeena! the Mufti then spoke about how some people, AS SOON AS THEY ARE MARRIED, start to hate each other; THAT is Shaytaan just trying to break up a God-sanctioned union!

as a westerner, we would see it as similar to seeing someone and "falling in love", but the second that you "get out of bed" you can no longer remember what the heck you saw in the person in the first place! at any rate, Shaytaan is happy because you just committed fornification!

see the similarity?

:sl:

[krypton6]

Well I'm asuming that you have never experienced true love, for I would never attempt to love a person, and arranged marriage is all about attempting to love a person.

A guy finds a responsible girl with a nice family perhaps. Now that, That is done left is to live the rest of your life with the partner, and in order to live your entire life with a partner love must be present, so now they attempt to....Create the love...

True love happens suddenly, and is strengthen over time, at least that is what I believe.

[ricardo_sousa]

general situation: `A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. << NOT a command to do something

What we should do:
So you should marry the religious woman [otherwise] you will be a loser.'"

but beauty is "in the game".

[ayesha309]

read the hadith; beauty should not be a part of the game

[------]

Well I'm asuming that you have never experienced true love, for I would never attempt to love a person, and arranged marriage is all about attempting to love a person.

You can assume all you like. You don't know me mate.

True love happens suddenly, and is strengthen over time, at least that is what I believe.

Load of *edited*. :-\ What happens 'suddenly' is attraction and lust, which leads to major things. :-\

[------]

:salamext:

read the hadith; beauty should not be a part of the game

Sis, I can see where ricardo_sousa is coming from. E.g. When u wake up every morning, most likely u will see the face of ur partner, so this should be appealing/satisfying, get me?

[ricardo_sousa]

read the hadith; beauty should not be a part of the game

I am sorry, but that is direct contradiction of the words of the Prophet Muhammad. He clearly says that beauty should be considered when decided to marry a woman. Not the most important thing, but an important aspect. my interpretation...

[krypton6]

Load of *edited*. :-\ What happens 'suddenly' is attraction and lust, which leads to major things. :-\

No as I said; I pass by many very attractive woman every day but I do not fall in love with them!

[ayesha309]

Let me rewrite the Hadith

"'A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family
status, her beauty, and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman [otherwise] you will be a loser.'"

I don't want to start another argument or anything; but according to me this hadith is clearly stating that if you marry a woman for beauty you will be the looser; so the Prophet SAW is telling you NOT to consider beauty, rather to consider her religious practices and knowledge. and ofcourse Allah knows best

[NoName55]

I am sorry, but that is direct contradiction of the words of the Prophet Muhammad. He clearly says that beauty should be considered when decided to marry a woman. Not the most important thing, but an important aspect. my interpretation...

so if I say:

wealth is accumulated by stealing, robbing and working; so you should get a job or you will be a looser.

does that mean, using your formula, stealing robbing and working are being recommended by me?

Originally Posted by NoName55

general situation: `A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty, and her religion. << NOT a command to do something

What we should do:
So you should marry the religious woman [otherwise] you will be a loser.'"

[crayon]

I think the hadeeth means that wealth, family status, beauty, and religion are the main reasons why women are married. Religion should precede the others in importance. Not to say that the others aren't important, but to get men's priorities right. (God knows they need it... ;])

[NoName55]

too many "muhadiths" are going to descend on this thread before long, perhaps Br. seeker_of_ilm should consider the alternative to leaving it open

ricardo had mutilated the hadith to win a point by leaving out the command part and trying to convince us that the description of prevalent practice is the actual hadith and command

[Woodrow]

Conclusion: Arraigned Marriage= Acceptable

Forced Marriage=Not Acceptable



Nothing else needs to be added except for arguments to satisfy the desires to argue.

Enough said.

:threadclo: