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IbnAbdulHakim
01-13-2008, 06:22 PM
Assalamu Alaikum



consider this a vent, why do people who go on like they so logical, get highest grades in uni/college etc, appear to be courteous and quite genius in many ways still find it hard to understand many aspects of islaam thus making them doubt more and more?! i mean they genuinely doubt. Believing would only bring them great advantage in life but they disbelief out of a discomort in the heart.


I love islaam, it makes perfect sense, but when i see these people who seem so genius and logical, whilst i understand the simplest things of islaam such as apostacy/polygomy/following the salaf properly and maany other aspects they seem to find it impossible to grasp.

i dont get it, i feel angry/sad etc, some people are just disappointing....
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Woodrow
01-13-2008, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Assalamu Alaikum



consider this a vent, why do people who go on like they so logical, get highest grades in uni/college etc, appear to be courteous and quite genius in many ways still find it hard to understand many aspects of islaam thus making them doubt more and more?! i mean they genuinely doubt. Believing would only bring them great advantage in life but they disbelief out of a discomort in the heart.


I love islaam, it makes perfect sense, but when i see these people who seem so genius and logical, whilst i understand the simplest things of islaam such as apostacy/polygomy/following the salaf properly and maany other aspects they seem to find it impossible to grasp.

i dont get it, i feel angry/sad etc, some people are just disappointing....
:sl:

Sadly intelligence is not the same as wisdom. Too many people of intelligence worship knowledge and fail to ever achieve wisdom. If a person had to choose between the gifts of wisdom and intelligence, wisdom is the wiser choice.
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ricardo_sousa
01-13-2008, 06:39 PM
think this way: the world is more fun this way. If everyone was the same, what´s the fun? you think your way, they think their's way, as long as you respect each other, society wins with that.
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wilberhum
01-13-2008, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Assalamu Alaikum



consider this a vent, why do people who go on like they so logical, get highest grades in uni/college etc, appear to be courteous and quite genius in many ways still find it hard to understand many aspects of islaam thus making them doubt more and more?! i mean they genuinely doubt. Believing would only bring them great advantage in life but they disbelief out of a discomort in the heart.


I love islaam, it makes perfect sense, but when i see these people who seem so genius and logical, whilst i understand the simplest things of islaam such as apostacy/polygomy/following the salaf properly and maany other aspects they seem to find it impossible to grasp.

i dont get it, i feel angry/sad etc, some people are just disappointing....
There is a reason it is called Faith. :peace:
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Al-Zaara
01-13-2008, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
:sl:

Sadly intelligence is not the same as wisdom. Too many people of intelligence worship knowledge and fail to ever achieve wisdom. If a person had to choose between the gifts of wisdom and intelligence, wisdom is the wiser choice.
I agree, well put. And as wilberhum said, I too think, it's about faith.

Some non-believers have said to me it's so easy to just believe, and that it's harder to use logic/be intelligent/.. something like that. :p I always disagree with 'em, 'cause I find it very easy to imagine how I would think if I didn't believe/have faith (i.e. be like them). So I do have an easy time to understand them, although this doesn't mean I agree with 'em.

I guess those who don't believe think the same about those who believe: "How can they not understand?!"
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جوري
01-13-2008, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Assalamu Alaikum
wa3lykoum aslaam wr wb



consider this a vent, why do people who go on like they so logical, get highest grades in uni/college etc, appear to be courteous and quite genius in many ways still find it hard to understand many aspects of islaam thus making them doubt more and more?! i mean they genuinely doubt. Believing would only bring them great advantage in life but they disbelief out of a discomort in the heart.
we differ therein.. I from experience and I am not talking about my own, find that the more one pushes for answers the more finds out how much he/she doesn't know... if one is in fact truthful and forth coming with self... you have heard the adage that goes.. 'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing'? as it breeds arrogance, it breeds complacency it breeds self-satisfaction, but it doesn't breed more knowledge... you can live a thousand years and study every day and still know not enough as if a pepple thrown in the sea.. the wonders are too numerous.. today you perfect art history but have no clue of the NASDAQ, tomorrow you learn of every disease from Asperger's to Zollinger-Ellison and not know of the cosomos.. tomorrow you can learn of the Orion and Cassieopea and not know of Battle of Little Bighorn.. then when you 'think' you have learned everything, you have lost the knowledge of the yester years because you didn't put it into practice .. you'll always miss something and that something can in fact be the key to the universe..
Getting good grades simply means you have applied yourself to a number of expectations imposed on you by a governing body, but it doesn't equal logic or even intellect.. the pioneers are a handful.. and they tend to think in abstract terms not in status quo
just so we are clear on your vent.. even he/she that you think is logical and has mastered his/her trade is wrought with error.. look again with a keen discerning eye.. not only is it far from perfection, it is a lag behind.. and it is unfortunate that it is passed in such terms that you makes you feel that there is legitimacy in it!

I love islaam, it makes perfect sense, but when i see these people who seem so genius and logical, whilst i understand the simplest things of islaam such as apostacy/polygomy/following the salaf properly and maany other aspects they seem to find it impossible to grasp.
It isn't as simple as all of that I am afraid..

i dont get it, i feel angry/sad etc, some people are just disappointing....
Yes .. some people are and it is their cross to bear.. you can only do your part to explain, whether they accept or reject it, it is their free will!
some fierce enemies of islam have become Muslim, some born Muslims shift.. this is a matter of the heart.. this is how God distinguished the kabeeth from the ta'yeb

:w:
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Muezzin
01-13-2008, 09:56 PM
Nobody's perfect.
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Omari
01-13-2008, 10:09 PM
In my opinion, [because i love to debate] its much better this way. I mean sure i would love to have everyone around me muslim but then whats the point of hell, and by extension ...life?

so you see there is no reasons you should angr yourself...
jussss chilll homyyyyy (H)

ballerrr
omari
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-14-2008, 05:27 AM
Wa Alaikum Ussalaam Wa Rahmatullaah

Ive read all your answers, thanks wa jazakAllaah khair (for muslims)

i have understood recently how desires can manipulate so called intelligence. Not only desires but also associates/environments etc.

I no longer consider people who get high grades etc intelligent. I no longer consider logic to be a consequence of intelligence and i understand truelly now that understanding is the greatest gift from Allaah.

Alhamdulillaah....
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Woodrow
01-14-2008, 05:33 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Wa Alaikum Ussalaam Wa Rahmatullaah

Ive read all your answers, thanks wa jazakAllaah khair (for muslims)

i have understood recently how desires can manipulate so called intelligence. Not only desires but also associates/environments etc.

I no longer consider people who get high grades etc intelligent. I no longer consider logic to be a consequence of intelligence and i understand truelly now that understanding is the greatest gift from Allaah.

Alhamdulillaah....
:sl:

Ameen to your words Akhi
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
01-14-2008, 05:49 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Assalamu Alaikum

consider this a vent, why do people who go on like they so logical, get highest grades in uni/college etc, appear to be courteous and quite genius in many ways still find it hard to understand many aspects of islaam thus making them doubt more and more?! i mean they genuinely doubt. Believing would only bring them great advantage in life but they disbelief out of a discomort in the heart.
ive realised with some people, the more they are givn , the more they are stubbon..

:sl:
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MinAhlilHadeeth
01-14-2008, 12:43 PM
:salamext:

Allaah guides whom He wills. Alhamdulillaah for guiding us. It is a blessing from Allaah that we will only truly comprehend the weight of on the day of judgement.

:wasalamex
Reply

------
01-14-2008, 01:08 PM
:salamext:

Well it is kind of logical if you think about it.... I mean Allaah swt says in the Qur'aan that:

Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will.
Surah 14, Verse 4
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mohsen1985
01-14-2008, 01:45 PM
In my experience, the more educated people get, the farther away they get from God. There are ofcourse exceptions to this. But what I've seen and understood from my physics and biology professors in NYC(all Pd.D's from top colleges around the world) is that when they get enough knowledge on biology and physics, that they can explain everything that's happening in the world they start to deny the existence of Allah! Just because they can explain things with their formulas, they think there isn't a greater force putting all this together. As I recall from one of my physics classes, the professor way explaining one of the theories of how this universe came to be, it sounds ridiculous to me, I dont know how he has accepted that. He said that at first, there was nothing. This "nothing" started bubbling out and started this universe (this was the short version, I dont remember the details) :eek:

But like everyone said in the previous posts, Allah will guide whoever he wants. I remember this doctor (think he was a srugeon [heart, chest, lungs something like that]), that didn't believen in God, but during his surgeries, he always saw a weird marking on all his patients. It looked to him like a writing in some language. He did some research and found out that in all our chests it's written "La ilaha illallah, mohammad rasululah". That's when he accepted Islam!
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------
01-14-2008, 01:47 PM
:salamext:

^ Subhaan Allaah!! :D
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aamirsaab
01-14-2008, 01:59 PM
:sl:
It's ironic too; a lot of the principles of Islam are logical and tolerant yet many people do not even see this. Some nearly get it but still cannot grasp it. Usually because it is simple and people want some complexity in their lives.

Anywho, enough of that rant. It's time to play Street fighter.
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Whatsthepoint
01-14-2008, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by mohsen1985
I remember this doctor (think he was a srugeon [heart, chest, lungs something like that]), that didn't believen in God, but during his surgeries, he always saw a weird marking on all his patients. It looked to him like a writing in some language. He did some research and found out that in all our chests it's written "La ilaha illallah, mohammad rasululah". That's when he accepted Islam!
Hrrm, I find this very hard to believe.
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Whatsthepoint
01-14-2008, 03:08 PM
I hope some muslims acknowledge that the perfection they see in Islam might be a product of bias...
Every religious person will see their religion as utterly perfect. Even atheists and agnostics find their position the wisest, the best, the most tolerant position possible.
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Woodrow
01-14-2008, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I hope some muslims acknowledge that the perfection they see in Islam might be a product of bias...
Every religious person will see their religion as utterly perfect. Even atheists and agnostics find their position the wisest, the best, the most tolerant position possible.
Definatly Bias on my part. I was quite arrogant and believed I had found the truth long before I came to Islam. I found out I was wrong. I accepted Islam because my narrow minded bias refuses to let me see anything I can not fully accept as Truth.
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aamirsaab
01-14-2008, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I hope some muslims acknowledge that the perfection they see in Islam might be a product of bias...
Every religious person will see their religion as utterly perfect. Even atheists and agnostics find their position the wisest, the best, the most tolerant position possible.
Oh absolutely. In certain cases though it is not always due to bias, but definitely that attitude does exist in all humans, regardless of their religion (or way of life). I just find it annoying how some people who claim to be logical and objective are actually not when it comes to addressing something they dislike (say a religion or heaven and hell etc), especially when whilst doing their ''critical analysis'' they exclaim that they are indeed logical and objective!

Still, we're humans at the end of the day so I shouldn't let it bother me.
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Z-Blade
01-16-2008, 10:29 PM
:sl:,

From Shaykh Woodrow:

Originally Posted by Woodrow
Many times a young man allows himself to worship his own intelligence. Intelligence is the one thing all people react irrationally about when it is questioned. If a person is called stupid by those around them, they will alter their concept of truth to agree with the people they admire.

this self worship of ones own intelligence becomes a form of shirk and it is not seen for what it is by the person. We really have no need of shaytan to tempt us, we are our own worse shaytans.

Intelligence and knowledge without wisdom are what fools are made of. Yet, people put off seeking wisdom, and replace it with logic. Logic is a great tool, but that is all it is, a simple tool that is only as reliable as the person using it.
:D

Wassalam.
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IbnAbdulHakim
01-17-2008, 08:38 AM
subhanAllaah, jazakAllaahu khair woodrow i couldnt agree more!

intelligence can be dangerous if gathered in the wrong way...
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
01-19-2008, 04:00 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Wa Alaikum Ussalaam Wa Rahmatullaah

Ive read all your answers, thanks wa jazakAllaah khair (for muslims)

i have understood recently how desires can manipulate so called intelligence. Not only desires but also associates/environments etc.

I no longer consider people who get high grades etc intelligent. I no longer consider logic to be a consequence of intelligence and i understand truelly now that understanding is the greatest gift from Allaah.

Alhamdulillaah....
:w: Bro,

Being smart or getting high grades does not mean one is intelligent, because the people of the Fire will say:

67-10 And they will say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!"

And as Ibn Kathir says of this verse:
Meaning, `if we would have benefited from our intellects or listened to the truth that Allah revealed, we would not have been disbelieving in Allah and misguided about Him. But we did not have understanding to comprehend what the Messengers came with, and we did not have the intelligence to guide us to following them.'
There's a worldy intelligence, getting high grades, getting a Masters Degree or Phd, but these are literally worth nothing if one disbelieves in Allaah. And Allaah says in another verse:

10:37 Rather, they have denied that which they encompass not in knowledge...

These people may have intelligence, but they're severely lacking in wisdom. Intelligence is useless if it isn't coupled with wisdom.

Anyway, I should not be judged, because my heart could not accept somthing. If i truly cannot believe the Quran is from God, what are people to judge? It is "Allah"'s will whom he guides. Their should be tolerance, on how people think. Despite what everyone tells you, not everyone leaves Islam to start doing lots of "evil deeds", have bad intentions, or so called negative desires. Somtimes, its just, that they don't believe its true, its enough for them.
If you're here to ask us questions and try to "wake" us up and "open our eyes", then we're already awake and able to see. Can the blind be held equal to the seeing? So please, don't try to feign eloquence to try and deceive others so they too fall into the same misguidance you've fallen into.

14:2-3 Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had been Muslims. Leave them to eat and enjoy, and let them be preoccupied with (false) hope. They will come to know!
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