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sur
01-16-2008, 04:56 AM
Prophet Muhammad(saww) foretold that this person who despite being a brave Mujahid, will be in HELL. & He used to kill civilian non-muslims & commited suicide.:-


Bukhari:52:147:-
Narrated Sahl bin Sad As-Sa'idi: Allah's Apostle and the pagans faced each other and started fighting. When Allah's Apostle returned to his camp and when the pagans returned to their camp, somebody talked about a man amongst the companions of Allah's Apostle who would follow and kill with his sword any pagan going alone.(so it is wrong to kill anyone who is NOT fighting with u) He said, "Nobody did his job (i.e. fighting) so properly today as that man."(so he was a good mujahid) Allah's Apostle said, "Indeed, he is amongst the people of the (Hell) Fire." A man amongst the people said, "I shall accompany him (to watch what he does)" Thus he accompanied him, and wherever he stood, he would stand with him, and wherever he ran, he would run with him. Then the (brave) man got wounded seriously and he decided to bring about his death quickly. He planted the blade of the sword in the ground directing its sharp end towards his chest between his two breasts. Then he leaned on the sword and killed himself. The other man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "I testify that you are Allah's Apostle." The Prophet asked, "What has happened?" He replied, "(It is about) the man whom you had described as one of the people of the (Hell) Fire. The people were greatly surprised at what you said, and I said, 'I will find out his reality for you.' So, I came out seeking him. He got severely wounded, and hastened to die by slanting the blade of his sword in the ground directing its sharp end towards his chest between his two breasts. Then he eased on his sword and killed himself." when Allah's Apostle said, "A man may seem to the people as if he were practising the deeds of the people of Paradise while in fact he is from the people of the Hell) Fire, another may seem to the people as if he were practicing the deeds of the people of Hell (Fire), while in fact he is from the people of Paradise."

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Even during war klling of women, children, elderly, & non-fighter-enemy is prohibited THEN HOW CAN SUICIDE bombing be permited!!!:-

Bukhari:-52:257.:-
During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Malik mauta:-21:10.:-
Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Abu Bakr as-Siddiq was sending armies to ash-Sham. He went for a walk with Yazid ibn Abi Sufyan who was the commander of one of the battalions. It is claimed that Yazid said to Abu Bakr, "Will you ride or shall I get down?" Abu Bakrsaid, "I will not ride and you will not get down. I intend these steps of mine to be in the way of Allah."
Then Abu Bakr advised Yazid, "You will find a people who claim to have totally given themselves to Allah. Leave them to what they claim to have given themselves. You will find a people who have shaved the middle of their heads, strike what they have shaved with the sword.
"I advise you ten things| Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly."



Only fighting men can be killed:-
Bukhari:-46:717:-
Narated By Ibn Aun : I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.

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who say as pretext of suicide bombings that we r oppressed & have no other way to fight enemy they will get some spanking from Angels in hell:-
[Quran:4:97] When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls(suicide!!!!!), they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of God spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?(so migration should be resorted to)" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! -
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mohsen1985
01-16-2008, 05:38 AM
I know committing suicide sends you directly to hell, but it's always been a question for me that: some of these suicide bombers are very young, they can't even tell the difference between good and evil. They were raised to hate certain people, and they have no idea what they're doing. It's as if they were trained from their childhood to do so. Does this change anything? Because (some of them, just a small percentage) can be considered innocent (innocence of a child) wouldn't the people who raised them have to be blamed?
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thirdwatch512
01-16-2008, 06:11 AM
Hey sur! this is Kyle from CF. Anyways, nice post! I am glad to hear that not all Muslims believe that "those who die in Jihad" will be in jannah!
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mohsen1985
01-16-2008, 06:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
Hey sur! this is Kyle from CF. Anyways, nice post! I am glad to hear that not all Muslims believe that "those who die in Jihad" will be in jannah!
Suicide bombing is not Jihad! It's suicide, and bombing. It's murder. Where did you hear that they'll go to heaven?:confused:
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sur
01-16-2008, 07:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mohsen1985
I know committing suicide sends you directly to hell, but it's always been a question for me that: some of these suicide bombers are very young, they can't even tell the difference between good and evil. They were raised to hate certain people, and they have no idea what they're doing. It's as if they were trained from their childhood to do so. Does this change anything? Because (some of them, just a small percentage) can be considered innocent (innocence of a child) wouldn't the people who raised them have to be blamed?
I think u r wrong in that most of them r too young to understand good & bad. Most of them r old enough.

Allah is NOT so naive not to understand who's responsible for how much of an event.

So InshAllah Allah will not punish if some young mind was misguided & brainwashed by other. The perpretator will be punished. Allah knows best.

format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
Hey sur! this is Kyle from CF. Anyways, nice post! I am glad to hear that not all Muslims believe that "those who die in Jihad" will be in jannah!
Peace Kyle.

U know there's an unfortunate reality with all of religions that our "scholars" often misguide us, & we don't even bother to cross-check their rulings with religious scriptures. We blindly follow them & mess up things.
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ahsan28
01-16-2008, 08:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
nice post! I am glad to hear that not all Muslims believe that "those who die in Jihad" will be in jannah!

That is the actual problem. The Muslims perceive that it is the West, which is out to settle the scores with Muslim world.

These perceptions include the Israeli-Palestinian problem, the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the horror stories of Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib, the vitriolic attacks on the prophet of Islam (pbuh) and the projection in the media about Muslims as violent extremists. Muslims are therefore inclined to believe that they are under attack.

The West on the other hand perceives that somehow Islam, as a religion and as a way of life, encourages or atleast tolerates violence as a means of achieving political and religious objectives. This is in stark contrast to the beliefs of the followers of Islam, who consider themselves as peaceful adherents of a great religion.

To address the issue, we have to dispel the myth that an entire religion can be so simplistically held responsible for the evils of terrorism and violence. The crimes of crusaders can not be attributed to the core philosophy of Christianity, similarly the violence of few Muslims radicals can not be the term of reference for judging the entire Muslims and their religion.
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syilla
01-16-2008, 08:56 AM
i never heard from any scholars that suicide bombing is a jihad... :hmm:

who is that?
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NoName55
01-16-2008, 09:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
i never heard from any scholars that suicide bombing is a jihad... :hmm:

who is that?
:sl:

he is making it up to impress his newfound friends
i never heard from any scholars that suicide bombing is a jihad...
I have not heard a reputable man say that neither

:w:
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mohsen1985
01-16-2008, 11:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by sur
I think u r wrong in that most of them r too young to understand good & bad. Most of them r old enough.

Allah is NOT so naive not to understand who's responsible for how much of an event.

So InshAllah Allah will not punish if some young mind was misguided & brainwashed by other. The perpretator will be punished. Allah knows best.



Peace Kyle.

U know there's an unfortunate reality with all of religions that our "scholars" often misguide us, & we don't even bother to cross-check their rulings with religious scriptures. We blindly follow them & mess up things.
I didn't say most. I was very careful about that. Some of them are 13, 14 years old.
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aamirsaab
01-16-2008, 11:16 AM
:sl:
Does this change anything? Because (some of them, just a small percentage) can be considered innocent (innocence of a child) wouldn't the people who raised them have to be blamed?
From various teachings that I have read about in Islam, it is the source that gets the most. e.g. the one who teaches the Quran to someone will get reward for every time that person teaches someone else. Similarly, those who deceit others will have punishment for every person that is deceived as a result. (which is actually quite fair in all honesty)

In which case, it could be said that the children suicide bombers may not be sent to hell and that those who brainwashed them will receive the punishment. However, since intention is a key factor, only God will ever know.

p.s; I do not condone suicide bombing in any way - it is haram under Islam on all accounts.
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sur
01-16-2008, 03:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by syilla
i never heard from any scholars that suicide bombing is a jihad... :hmm:
who is that?

Originally posted by NoName55;
he is making it up to impress his newfound friends

I have not heard a reputable man say that neither
for a suicide-bomber his brainwasher is his "scholar" who he believes in, whether well known or not. & condoning is equal to saying it is jihad.


British Scholar Azzam Tamimi



Al-Qaradawi
Quote:-
Muslim scholar who has visited London for many years without fuss. To others he's nothing but trouble, a man who uses religion to justify suicide bombings



Quote:-
One in four younger Muslim Americans say suicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable at least in some circumstances




& fatwa from site most frequently quoted on this forum:-We'd like to address a point; all scholars agreed that what the Palestinians carry out in showing resistance against their enemies is not a suicide bombing; rather, it's to be called martyr operation.
the late Azharite scholar and the head of the Sunni Egyptian Institutions in Egypt, Sheikh Fu'ad Mukhaymar, states the following:

"The view adopted by the majority of our contemporary Muslim scholars, describing as martyrs the Palestinians who blow themselves up in the occupied land in showing resistance against the aggression, is correct for the following reasons:

A person who blows himself up sacrifices his life for the survival of others. He dies for his homeland and his holy sites.



The person is 1st hadith i quoted also killed himself during war against enemies. So is there a difference b/w him & suicide bomber. Both kill themselves, Both kill civilian non-muslims, Both think they r doing Jihad.
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m102313
01-16-2008, 03:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
Hey sur! this is Kyle from CF. Anyways, nice post! I am glad to hear that not all Muslims believe that "those who die in Jihad" will be in jannah!
looks like you don't know much about Jihad, it is not about bombing innocent civilians, that's what the west perceives it as, there are many types of Jihad, it's not only going to the battlefield to fight the enemy, there is Jihadun-Nafs which is to fight the desires within yourself and to submit your will to god, well it is actually true though anyone who dies in the Battlefield is a Mujahid and they will enter paradise this is because they are fighting for their own rights and fighting for their country, and i guess this is what the US is really good at doing, but i do not condone this because you have the right to fight for your country.
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Muezzin
01-16-2008, 04:09 PM
Bumped for the benefit of any passing Google-reliant anti-Islamic trolls (who are decidedly not any of the regular members, calm down, people).

To those who justify suicide bombing or martydom operations (whichever term is more politically correct) - There seems to be a slight difference between the hadiths, which talk of dying fighting a hoarde of combatants, and suicide bombings (or 'martydom operations'). Difference being bombs + non-combatants = this is so wrong.

But I'm no scholar.

I await the inevitable quote of the line above, with the inevitable reply of 'Evidently'.
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sur
01-16-2008, 04:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
To those who justify suicide bombing or martydom operations (whichever term is more politically correct) - There seems to be a slight difference between the hadiths, which talk of dying fighting a hoarde of combatants, and suicide bombings (or 'martydom operations'). Difference being bombs + non-combatants = this is so wrong.
difference is only of change of technology,
1)he used sword, SB use bomb.
2)he also used to kill civilian pagans("pagans standing alone") , SB also kill civilians like in bus, restaurant, etc.
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Amadeus85
01-16-2008, 05:44 PM
Since we all agree that Islam is against suicide bombings, why dont scholars persuade those notorious groups like Muslim Brotherhood,Hamas or Salafists in Algeria to stop doing this, since all those groups seem to be religious groups.
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Keltoi
01-16-2008, 07:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Since we all agree that Islam is against suicide bombings, why dont scholars persuade those notorious groups like Muslim Brotherhood,Hamas or Salafists in Algeria to stop doing this, since all those groups seem to be religious groups.
*root of the problem alert*
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krypton6
01-16-2008, 07:53 PM
I would not exactly call the "civilians" who pay their government to destroy our nations for innocent civilians.

The only act of terrorism in the form of suicide bombing is the suicide bombs in the second and third world countries where the people have no choice but to live under their regime, but in the west every man has enough money to move out of his country and thereby stop supporting his government economically.
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wilberhum
01-16-2008, 07:59 PM
I would not exactly call the "civilians" who pay their government to destroy our nations for innocent civilians.
Exactly, that is what Osama bin Lauden says.

So am I to assume that you are one of his supporters?
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Omari
01-16-2008, 08:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
So am I to assume that you are one of his supporters?
Please don't assume things, perhaps somebody says somthing that may lead you to think as such, but maybe you understood it differently than how he intended. Anyone who supports bin laden is not in the right mind, and it's because of him that my country is ...im not gonna start.

About suicide bombing. The first thing I will say is that Allah does not give ANYONE the right to put innocent peoples' lives in danger, in fact allah says in the quran: save one person, it's as if you have saved all of humanity, kill one person and it's as if you have killed all of humanity. I am totally against them...

BUT. Those suicide bomber who destroy themselves and kill opression and not innocent lives, i don't think i can aprove or disaprove. Because if throwing rocks is not making the opression go away, if death is inevitable, why not destroy some opression.
ANY suicide bomber who puts innocent lives to danger, TO HELL WITH them
suicide bombers who are doing it for the sake of getting rid of opression
...im not so sure if i can aprove or not

Peace be with you all.
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krypton6
01-16-2008, 08:12 PM
No I dont support him because what he did harmed his people more than what it did any good for. Though I would not call him a terrorist for killing the same people who in fact are the worlds greatest host for terrorism and the same people who do not even recognize their past as wrong doings.

The only thing Bin Laden is doing is fighting in self-defence and fighting back, he is just giving back to america what they have given to the world for so many centuries. It is only That what he is doing to americans is nothing compared to what americans have done to his people.
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wilberhum
01-16-2008, 08:23 PM


It is OK to kill anyone you don't like.
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krypton6
01-16-2008, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well your true self is now known.

My true self is now known??? This is the truth, if you accept, recognize and directly support Israel you diserve wors than what Hitler and Saddam deserved.

The israelis are recognizing Israel as their country, they are recognizing their past as good acts, they deny the daily slaughtering of the palestinians and for that they deserve death! They barbarically stole the lands of the palestinians and did wors to the palestinians than what Hitler ever did to the to the jews, and we all agree that Hitler deserved a death sentence for what he did, so why on earth do you look at israelis as did they not deserve death?

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
It is OK to kill anyone you don't like.
No I never stated that.
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wilberhum
01-16-2008, 09:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
My true self is now known??? This is the truth, if you accept, recognize and directly support Israel you diserve wors than what Hitler and Saddam deserved.

The israelis are recognizing Israel as their country, they are recognizing their past as good acts, they deny the daily slaughtering of the palestinians and for that they deserve death! They barbarically stole the lands of the palestinians and did wors to the palestinians than what Hitler ever did to the to the jews, and we all agree that Hitler deserved a death sentence for what he did, so why on earth do you look at israelis as did they not deserve death?



No I never stated that.
Too bad the post that exposed your true nature was removed.

Oh the old Hitler shet again. Now that truly tells about you.

Israel is worse than Hitler. I assume that is because Hitler mostly killed Jews.
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krypton6
01-16-2008, 09:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Too bad the post that exposed your true nature was removed.

Oh the old Hitler shet again. Now that truly tells about you.

Israel is worse than Hitler. I assume that is because Hitler mostly killed Jews.
Yeh sadely it was removed.

I'm not saying that Israelis are wors than Hitler because he killed jews and they did not and are not. I have nothing against jews but I have much against imperialists, and israel hapends to be the worlds biggest ánd most cruel and barbaric imperialistic country. Hitler warned the jews for over a month before he started executing some, the jews chose not to leave regardless of what Hitler said. They were executed in a less painless way.

Israel bulldozed the palestinian houses, some times with people inside, they slaughtered any insurgent, and killed any person who refused to leave his house. They barbarically stole more than 90% of the palestinian lands. As time went on the less than 10% palestine was bombed under many occasions, leaving them without runing clean water or normal electricity.

What Hitler did compared to what they did is nothing; Hitler may have killed many but he didnt kill and torture them in such a barbaric way, not to yet again mention what followed the many massacres.

THAT makes them worse than Hitler.
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*Hana*
01-16-2008, 09:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Yeh sadely it was removed.

I'm not saying that Israelis are wors than Hitler because he killed jews and they did not and are not. I have nothing against jews but I have much against imperialists, and israel hapends to be the worlds biggest ánd most cruel and barbaric imperialistic country. Hitler warned the jews for over a month before he started executing some, the jews chose not to leave regardless of what Hitler said. They were executed in a painless way.

Israel bulldozed the palestinian houses, some times with people inside, they slaughtered any insurgent, and killed any person who refused to leave his house. They barbarically stole more than 90% of the palestinians.
As time went on the less than 10% palestine was bombed under many occasions, leaving them without runing clean water or normal electricity.

What Hitler did compared to what they did is nothing; Hitler may have killed many but he didnt kill and torture them in such a barbaric way, not to yet again mention what followed the many massacres.

THAT makes them worse than Hitler.
:muddlehea
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wilberhum
01-16-2008, 10:02 PM
krypton6
Where did you get your knowledge of history?



You are obviously a graduate of the “Ostrich School of Reality”.
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krypton6
01-16-2008, 10:13 PM
Correct me then
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The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:16 PM
ok now there are many scholars who say suicide bombings etc etc are wrong, infact from what i have seen the scholars say its wrong, but they havent passed judgement on the bomber such as saying he is going to hell.

the hadith you site doesnt support that conclusion neither because the hadith you quote is something completly different to that of a suicide bombing.

for starters in the hadith the man commited suicide to ease his pain as he was wounded in a battle and could not take the pain so he killed himself to get it over with, that is nothing like a suicide bombing. suicide bombers use this tactic because it is one of the most effective and only main weapon they have in their arsenal that makes a strong affect and takes out many enemies.....suicide bombers go out intending to kill their enemies, its a mission, its like a battle, this hadith you mention is simply one man commiting suicide to ease his pain, just like the many thousand ppl who commit suicide a day.

so the hadith doesnt compare with suicide bombings, not at all...............

now yes it is wrong to kill civillians, but the Q is, are israelis innocent civillians? those who say yes need to go learn abit and educate themselves before quoting Islamic text to support an argument of theirs which is based on ignorance and falsehood from the start....

for starters israelis are NOT innocent, and its not because they vote for bad ppl, or live on occupied land, no, it is because every adult israeli from the age of 18 is enlisted into the army and is a reserve in the army, so basically that supposed innocent israeli selling dvd's one day can be a soldier firing shells into lebanease and palestinians villages on the next day. infact that is what happened in the 2nd israeli-lebanon war in 2006, hundreds of israeli reservists where called to the front line and started shelling lebanon killing hundreds of lebanease civillians. so no they arent innocent because they are all soldiers.....

now what about the children and elderly who get killed in israel??? well thats the fault of the israeli adults, because they have put these kids and elders in harms way, the fact is old ppl and children shouldnt be beside soldiers......and there is an Islamic text that says that if children are killed when there is no way to avoid it then it is isnt a sin, now tell me how can you avoid children being hurt when Israeli soldiers are taking them along with them?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its their own fault.

so sorry no such thing as an innocent adult israeli, the only innocent are the kids and elderly who no longer have to serve in the army, yet they are right in the middle of millions of other israeli soldiers, hence them sometimes getting in the way is regrettable but their own people's fault......

you dont expect me and others to believe that an israeli adult who can be called to bomb Muslim homes one day at any moment is an innocent person do you?????????????

so plz get your facts right on who is innocent in Israel.

now obviously suicide bombings in iraq and pakistan etc etc are wrong, because theyre targetting fellow Muslims, and theyre targetting areas which is mainly frequented by civillians such as markets, mosques, bus stations etc etc, and on top of that these fighters are more than capable of using other tactics than suicide bombings.

so you cant compare suicide bombings in israel with those in iraq or pakistan, and thats a fact, although neocon-zionists would like to say theyre all the same, yet the fact is is their not............................................... ........
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wilberhum
01-16-2008, 10:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Correct me then
Why not have a good read or two?

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar.../timeline.html

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/fsol.htm

Of course there are thousands of others.

The Holocaust is the most document atrocity in human history.
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krypton6
01-16-2008, 10:27 PM
^^^I agree with you in some ways.

Imagine this; I break inside of your house, kill your wife and daughter who both refuse to leave their house, and kill your son who fights back. Your not alone and you are forced outside of your house.

Do you considere the murderes of your family inside of your house for civilians? NO you do not!

That alone justefies any attack on israel resulting in deaths!

PS; The elders are no better than the young ones, in fact the old israelis are the ones who invaded palestine and did the worst part so they TRULLY deserve the worst.
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Keltoi
01-16-2008, 10:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
ok now there are many scholars who say suicide bombings etc etc are wrong, infact from what i have seen the scholars say its wrong, but they havent passed judgement on the bomber such as saying he is going to hell.

the hadith you site doesnt support that conclusion neither because the hadith you quote is something completly different to that of a suicide bombing.

for starters in the hadith the man commited suicide to ease his pain as he was wounded in a battle and could not take the pain so he killed himself to get it over with, that is nothing like a suicide bombing. suicide bombers use this tactic because it is one of the most effective and only main weapon they have in their arsenal that makes a strong affect and takes out many enemies.....suicide bombers go out intending to kill their enemies, its a mission, its like a battle, this hadith you mention is simply one man commiting suicide to ease his pain, just like the many thousand ppl who commit suicide a day.

so the hadith doesnt compare with suicide bombings, not at all...............

now yes it is wrong to kill civillians, but the Q is, are israelis innocent civillians? those who say yes need to go learn abit and educate themselves before quoting Islamic text to support an argument of theirs which is based on ignorance and falsehood from the start....

for starters israelis are NOT innocent, and its not because they vote for bad ppl, or live on occupied land, no, it is because every adult israeli from the age of 18 is enlisted into the army and is a reserve in the army, so basically that supposed innocent israeli selling dvd's one day can be a soldier firing shells into lebanease and palestinians villages on the next day. infact that is what happened in the 2nd israeli-lebanon war in 2006, hundreds of israeli reservists where called to the front line and started shelling lebanon killing hundreds of lebanease civillians. so no they arent innocent because they are all soldiers.....

now what about the children and elderly who get killed in israel??? well thats the fault of the israeli adults, because they have put these kids and elders in harms way, the fact is old ppl and children shouldnt be beside soldiers......and there is an Islamic text that says that if children are killed when there is no way to avoid it then it is isnt a sin, now tell me how can you avoid children being hurt when Israeli soldiers are taking them along with them?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its their own fault.

so sorry no such thing as an innocent adult israeli, the only innocent are the kids and elderly who no longer have to serve in the army, yet they are right in the middle of millions of other israeli soldiers, hence them sometimes getting in the way is regrettable but their own people's fault......

you dont expect me and others to believe that an israeli adult who can be called to bomb Muslim homes one day at any moment is an innocent person do you?????????????

so plz get your facts right on who is innocent in Israel.

now obviously suicide bombings in iraq and pakistan etc etc are wrong, because theyre targetting fellow Muslims, and theyre targetting areas which is mainly frequented by civillians such as markets, mosques, bus stations etc etc, and on top of that these fighters are more than capable of using other tactics than suicide bombings.

so you cant compare suicide bombings in israel with those in iraq or pakistan, and thats a fact, although neocon-zionists would like to say theyre all the same, yet the fact is is their not............................................... ........
You can't compare suicide bombings in Israel with those in Iraq or Pakistan? What is the difference? The number of ball bearings and nails stuffed into the bomb package?
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The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
You can't compare suicide bombings in Israel with those in Iraq or Pakistan? What is the difference? The number of ball bearings and nails stuffed into the bomb package?
i stated the difference :).....
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krypton6
01-16-2008, 10:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Why not have a good read or two?

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar.../timeline.html

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/fsol.htm

Of course there are thousands of others.

The Holocaust is the most document atrocity in human history.
I aint gonna read a whole website, you can point out what you want to point out instead of giving me the whole website to read my way through. What is it that I have said that you believe to be against history?

The second link hapends to be the website of the holocaust memorial, which is owned by jews :). Give me a neutral link.

And again; What is it that I have said that you find being wrong?
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Omari
01-16-2008, 10:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6

PS; The elders are no better than the young ones, in fact the old israelis are the ones who invaded palestine and did the worst part so they TRULLY deserve the worst.
You posted some things earlier that forced me to reply. Or correct.

First of all, Osama bin Laden is the second worst person that walks on earth today. [ won't say who is first]

Yes, Israelis are doing stuff to palestine that goes against human rights, but then when somone has power over you, what can you do about it?

They are definatly not worst than hitler. PAINLESS WAY? if you consider burning human beings in an oven ALIVE is painless...then...I don't know what kind of body you are gifted with.

Brother, facts before debate. The weaker your evidence , the stronger your opponent, remember that.

Peace be with you brother.
Omari

Ps. Bin Laden is a coward. a really big coward that used my country to hide. If he calls himself somone who fights for Islam, i challenge him to fight with his men and not hide and give orders. Even the Prophet of allah (PBUH) fought in the jihad, does bin laden consider himself more important?
I am not his freind, i am not his enemy. But he definatly deserves to get punished.
Reply

Keltoi
01-16-2008, 10:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
i stated the difference :).....
Yes, no Jew..errr..I mean no Israeli is innocent. Sorry, but that is just hate wrapped in nonsensical justification.
Reply

The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Yes, no Jew..errr..I mean no Israeli is innocent. Sorry, but that is just hate wrapped in nonsensical justification.
YAWNNNNN why dont you adress the part about every adult israeli being a reserve in the army who can be called up to bomb a house at any given moment, i.e. lebanon war 2006.........

i know you cant refute me, you never can......:shade:
Reply

krypton6
01-16-2008, 10:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
You can't compare suicide bombings in Israel with those in Iraq or Pakistan? What is the difference? The number of ball bearings and nails stuffed into the bomb package?
Iraqis and pakistanis are not imperialists, nor are they are generally criminals, murderes, or thieves, israelis clearly are.

Israelis are **** rich and they can when ever they wish to, leave israel, iraqis and pakistanis cannot do so. Israelis have stolen the lands of others, tortured the people and killed others, they do not recognize what they have done to be wrong or to be terrorism, the iraqis and pakistanis have not killed and tortured people after having stolen their country making them civilians.
Reply

wilberhum
01-16-2008, 10:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
I aint gonna read a whole website, you can point out what you want to point out instead of giving me the whole website to read my way through. What is it that I have said that you believe to be against history?

The second link hapends to be the website of the holocaust memorial, which is owned by jews :). Give me a neutral link.

And again; What is it that I have said that you find being wrong?
Well Omari summed it up.
The fact that you "aint gonna read" shows your total lack if interest in the truth.
As they say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", comes to mind here.

You can't educate people who don't want to learn.
Reply

The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:42 PM
there he also goes with the 'jew' card......
Reply

The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:43 PM
keltoi incase you didnt know i am closer to jews than you and your neocon allies will ever be........so dont play that stupid 'jew' card with me
Reply

Keltoi
01-16-2008, 10:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
YAWNNNNN why dont you adress the part about every adult israeli being a reserve in the army who can be called up to bomb a house at any given moment, i.e. lebanon war 2006.........

i know you cant refute me, you never can......:shade:
I don't believe I've ever bothered to try...which I probably shouldn't now. Hateful rhetoric usually gets a pass from me. Your argument about the Israeli military is nonsensical because most every nation has the capability to institute a draft or gather reserves from the general population. Plus, using your logic, an all volunteer army would make that country fit your criteria, since anyone could join at any time.
Reply

Omari
01-16-2008, 10:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
YAWNNNNN why dont you adress the part about every adult israeli being a reserve in the army who can be called up to bomb a house at any given moment, i.e. lebanon war 2006.........

i know you cant refute me, you never can......:shade:
Care to explain more?:thankyou:
Reply

Keltoi
01-16-2008, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
keltoi incase you didnt know i am closer to jews than you and your neocon allies will ever be........so dont play that stupid 'jew' card with me
I have neo-con allies? That's great, I never knew I had that kind of backup. :rolleyes: Plus I live next door to a Jew...how close do you live to a Jew. :)
Reply

Omari
01-16-2008, 10:49 PM
As I recall, Lebanon kicked israels buttox.
Omari
Reply

The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Omari
Care to explain more?:thankyou:
yup.....something ppl never tell you is that every israeli who reaches 18 officially becomes enlisted in the army....he becomes a reserve, he can be called up for duty at any second, one day he will be selling dvd's and cooking shawarmas and on the next day he can be on the border firing shells into lebanease towns.

this happened in the 2006 war between lebanon, thousands of israeli reservists were sent to the front lines and fired shells at lebanon killing hundreds of innocent lebanease.

these are the people they call 'innocent civillians' haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa what a joke.

lets make an analogy, the FBI says there are al-qaeda cells in USA, these men live normal day to day lives, they could be a taxi driver or whatever, yet they can be called up at any second by the leaders to carry out an attack, like fly a plane into a building etc, is that man an innocent civillian??????????????? americans will shout HELL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......exactly, whats the difference between the 2?
Reply

Keltoi
01-16-2008, 10:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Omari
As I recall, Lebanon kicked israels buttox.
Omari
I believe you are referring to Hezbollah...and nobody got their "buttox" kicked except for the non-combatants in Lebanon...and the buildings in Beirut.
Reply

krypton6
01-16-2008, 10:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Omari
Yes, Israelis are doing stuff to palestine that goes against human rights, but then when somone has power over you, what can you do about it?.
What do you mean?

format_quote Originally Posted by Omari
They are definatly not worst than hitler. PAINLESS WAY? if you consider burning human beings in an oven ALIVE is painless...then...I don't know what kind of body you are gifted with.
I have never heard of hitlers human cooking methods, and I doubt that he ever did so. Who told you so?

format_quote Originally Posted by Omari
Ps. Bin Laden is a coward. a really big coward that used my country to hide. If he calls himself somone who fights for Islam, i challenge him to fight with his men and not hide and give orders. Even the Prophet of allah (PBUH) fought in the jihad, does bin laden consider himself more important?
I am not his freind, i am not his enemy. But he definatly deserves to get punished.
Bin Laden is one of the worlds most bravest men! He gave up on his fortune and seeked into leading a whole army against billions of people.
He is not fighting for Islam, he is fighting for muslims.

If you have not know by now, Bin Laden is 50 years old! YET he does fight! He was nearly captured a few years ago during a battle against the marines in Afghanistan, and to this day he is still fighting. Before the war against the marines he fought agaisnt the soviet for many years along with other invaders, Bin Laden has a long insurgency and military background.

Even if he did not fight it would be understandable.

In a fight the leader is always the first one to die, the enemy is always after the leader! A leader cannot survive a battle in our age. The prophet fought in the battle but that was different times, different battles, different weopens and different wars. It doesn't work that way any longer! Bin Laden does not considere himself better than the prophet.

You are his enemy for what your saying is the words of his enemy.
Reply

Omari
01-16-2008, 10:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
this happened in the 2006 war between lebanon, thousands of israeli reservists were sent to the front lines and fired shells at lebanon killing hundreds of innocent lebanease.
Wow! those israeli souldiers must be brave! I mean come on! who can kill hundreds of innocent lebanease despite the fact that they were unarmed? man my respect for israel suddenly went up...

I surely hope you caught the sarcasm on the second sentence.

Omari
Reply

The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I believe you are referring to Hezbollah...and nobody got their "buttox" kicked except for the non-combatants in Lebanon...and the buildings in Beirut.
yes true, and it was those lovely 'innocent' israelis who did alot of that bombing, yes how innocent they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
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The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Omari
Wow! those israeli souldiers must be brave! I mean come on! who can kill hundreds of innocent lebanease despite the fact that they were unarmed? man my respect for israel suddenly went up...

I surely hope you caught the sarcasm on the second sentence.

Omari
yup, and these are the ppl they want to call innocent..........
Reply

Keltoi
01-16-2008, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Omari
Wow! those israeli souldiers must be brave! I mean come on! who can kill hundreds of innocent lebanease despite the fact that they were unarmed? man my respect for israel suddenly went up...

I surely hope you caught the sarcasm on the second sentence.

Omari
Yeah, I suppose the hundreds of rockets fired into Israeli towns from Hezbollah is different somehow?
Reply

The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:57 PM
infact there were stupid israeli children signing bombs! they wrote 'from israel with love' on bombs that dropped on innocent lebanease civillians.....

:) hezbollah sent the love back, Arab hospitality, we will always match you, you wanna send missiles with love, they will send rockets with love as well.
Reply

The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Yeah, I suppose the hundreds of rockets fired into Israeli towns from Hezbollah is different somehow?
as i said, its our arab hospitality. they fired missiles written 'with love from israel' so hezbollah had to return the favor...............
Reply

krypton6
01-16-2008, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Yeah, I suppose the hundreds of rockets fired into Israeli towns from Hezbollah is different somehow?
Yes for those rockets only kill israelis, the same israelis who stole "my" house, killed "my" family and now live on "my" property.
Reply

The_Prince
01-16-2008, 10:59 PM
keltoi have you forgotten a jewish forefather Moses said eye for an eye?
Reply

Omari
01-16-2008, 10:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
What do you mean?
I mean what i said. It's not hard to read English.



I have never heard of hitlers human cooking methods, and I doubt that he ever did so. Who told you so?
WHO TOLD ME? bro go do some research, every camp had human ovens, infact if he wasn't so busy with executing he could have one the war.


Bin Laden is one of the worlds most bravest men! He gave up on his fortune and seeked into leading a whole army against billions of people.
He is not fighting for Islam, he is fighting for muslims.
WHAT??? lol, man i am going to put that in the humor section.If you have not know by now, Bin Laden is 50 years old! YET he does fight! He was nearly captured a few years ago during a battle against the marines in Afghanistan, and to this day he is still fighting. Before the war against the marines he fought agaisnt the soviet for many years along with other invaders, Bin Laden has a long insurgency and military background.do you know that the "military background" also includes being a CIA member of the United States of America? the same country that GAVE AMMUNITION for his guns?? and not only that but also SUPPLIED them with those guns?
Even if he did not fight it would be understandable.

In a fight the leader is always the first one to die, the enemy is always after the leader! A leader cannot survive a battle in our age. The prophet fought in the battle but that was different times, different battles, different weopens and different wars. It doesn't work that way any longer! Bin Laden does not considere himself better than the prophet.

Sure the times have changed, but does brainwashing people to blow up in markets, MASJIDS, churches, and homes make you brave? The civilian deaths that he calls "sacrafices" seem justified to you? Do you know what the taliban did to Afghanistan? CLEARLY NOT
You are his enemy for what your saying is the words of his enemy.
I am not his enemy, because i have no direct emnity with him. But if that is how it looks to you. SO BE IT.
Peace be with you.
Omari
Reply

Omari
01-16-2008, 11:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Yeah, I suppose the hundreds of rockets fired into Israeli towns from Hezbollah is different somehow?
Ofcourse, you bomb them, they bomb back. :) you can't deny the fact that Israel started it .

Omari
Reply

Muezzin
01-16-2008, 11:05 PM
All right guys, this topic has gone way off track.
Reply

Keltoi
01-16-2008, 11:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Omari
Ofcourse, you bomb them, they bomb back. :) you can't deny the fact that Israel started it .

Omari
Actually you are incorrect, it started because members of Hezbollah crossed the border and killed and kidnapped Israeli soldiers, who are still missing and probably dead.
Reply

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