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minaz
01-17-2008, 04:13 PM
Why beat about the 'Middle East Bush' so late?

President George Bush’s tour of the Middle East in his final Presidential year is somewhat different to his other trips. I am not talking about his excursions on ranches in Texas, but what in the past has been a reluctant flight overseas- especially the Middle East of all places. Way back in 2000, before the 9/11 era, George demonstrated how little he knew about international political figures, and his understanding of world politics was debatable. One issue and region which would dominate his presidency was that of the Middle East. So why has it taken a good seven years for him to make any little significant headway in the region?

His supporters may argue that he has attempted to bring peace in the form of democracy, examples being the regime changes in Afghanistan and Iraq through democratic elections. They may also argue that he also took a leading part in the Road Map for Peace- which kinda backfired when Hamas were elected. He has also taken the lead in standing hard against Iran and its nuclear ambitions & international defiance. But one thing is for sure, is that throughout his reign he has applied little or no pressure upon the Israeli’s. The support of Israel’s policy: of assassination, ‘Security Wall’, treatment of the Palestinians, the military support of Israel’s army and most importantly the support of the 2006 Lebanon war- which many countries condemned and the UN called the actions “War Crimes”. Many analysts (such as Chomsky and Fisk) believe this support is partly due to his strong Evangelical belief- that the second coming of Christ will follow the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. However this week Bush has spoken in a tone which is not familiar towards Israel before- that they have to return the lands taken from Palestinians in 1967. This may seem not significant (to many it is a bit of common sense), but compared to anything he has said to Israel before this is probably the most outstanding, especially for the Middle East. In fact Bush wants viable progress towards peace within a year. But why take this stance now?

Many of you know the answer already- that he has under a year left as president. Like his former, Bill Clinton, Bush is trying to seal his presidency by broking a peace in the region. When Clinton hosted the Camp David summit in 2000, he too was leaving office in that year, he also needed to try and go down in history by creating peace- not for the Lewinsky affair or missed opportunities such as in Rwanda. If one was to name what George Bush does not want to go down for, then a fairly long list could be produced- but I shall only mention Iraq. This is similar to our (well my) former Prime Minister Tony Blair, who has become a Middle East Ambassador, a move because he feels that his time in office has not brought peace to the region and being his only downfall in office? My question is for what purpose has George Bush taken a revived stance in the Middle East?

•For his legacy?
•Is it to start a new policy that his successor will continue?
•Does he finally feel that his reign has done more bad than good?
•Try and create a positive that will overshadow his failure that is Iraq?
•Or do you feel that it is nothing new?

I look forward to your opinions.

-MINAZ-
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Cognescenti
01-17-2008, 05:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
[CENTER][B]...
I look forward to your opinions.

-MINAZ-
No you don't. If you were interested in genuine understanding, you wouldn't front-load your "question" with insulting characterizations and you wouldn't trot out what your opponents arguments are to be in order to play in your little sand box.

Here is my opinion. You are a close-minded automaton seeking to get a dose of happy juice by basking in the glow of what you perceive to be the lesser automatons as they shower approbation upon you. Everyone...get out your rose petals! Huzzah!
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aamirsaab
01-17-2008, 06:03 PM
:sl:
I'm just glad he's going there - sure it is quite late but as they say better later than never.

Hopefully both Palestinian and Israeli gov. will be able to finally reach a compromise and stop friggin' killing each other.
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Keltoi
01-17-2008, 06:04 PM
Every president wants to take a crack at the Mideast peace deal. Yes, it is for legacy, but also because peace between Palestinians and Israelis is good for the whole of the region...except for those who profit from it.
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islamirama
01-17-2008, 06:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
I'm just glad he's going there - sure it is quite late but as they say better later than never.

Hopefully both Palestinian and Israeli gov. will be able to finally reach a compromise and stop friggin' killing each other.
:w:

things are never what they seem....
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krypton6
01-17-2008, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Hopefully both Palestinian and Israeli gov. will be able to finally reach a compromise and stop friggin' killing each other.
Palestinians will never recognize Israel, for Israel is their stolen homes and lands. By recognizing israel you are betraying your own people and not least religion, so you should take back your filthy words.

The palestinians will just have to keep fighting back, and one day they will if god willing return to their homes and the graves of the brave warriors who fought and died for the palestinian freedom and revolution.
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minaz
01-17-2008, 07:10 PM
Cognescenti
Thank you for your opinion- I do indeed look forward to hearing my robots opinions :P

Krypton6
I get the impression that you feel that Bush’s attempt for a 2 state solution is not compatible with your beliefs of the return of Palestinian lands pre 1947.
But I fail to see the filth in:
“Hopefully both Palestinian and Israeli gov. will be able to finally reach a compromise and stop friggin' killing each other”
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Ninth_Scribe
01-17-2008, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
[CENTER][B]His supporters may argue that he has attempted to bring peace in the form of democracy, examples being the regime changes in Afghanistan and Iraq through democratic elections
I don't call selling a fortune in weapons to all sides a roadmap to peace. It seems to me, he's trying to trigger an Armegheddon...
and make a very tidy profit in the process!

And while Palestine might have lost a few battles, the cause of the WAR remains... and this is far from over.

The Ninth Scribe
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Cognescenti
01-17-2008, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
Cognescenti
Thank you for your opinion- I do indeed look forward to hearing my robots opinions :P
:
Oh gosh. You didn't say you were a friendly robot...now I feel bad for being so mean to you. :cry:


"friggin'" is a bit edgy..I suspect that is what Krypton was referring to.
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snakelegs
01-17-2008, 07:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
I don't call selling a fortune in weapons to all sides a roadmap to peace. It seems to me, he's trying to trigger an Armegheddon...
and make a very tidy profit in the process!

And while Palestine might have lost a few battles, the cause of the WAR remains... and this is far from over.

The Ninth Scribe
yeah, i agree.
also, i think he did it for the sake of his legacy (appearances). still, i was surprised to even hear that much re: israel returning the territories.
somehow, i cannot see bush as a peacemaker!
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krypton6
01-17-2008, 07:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
But I fail to see the filth in:
A compromise will under all circumenstances result in israel being recognized as a country, and I am against the idea of palestinian lands being recognized as israeli and changed into israeli.

By asking for a compromise you are accepting and recognizing the barbaric imperialistic terror acts of israel, for acts of gooodness and that is not only against your own people but it is also against your religion.

There is no compromising regarding this conflict, Israel simply cannot exist!
Reply

Cognescenti
01-17-2008, 08:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
I don't call selling a fortune in weapons to all sides a roadmap to peace. It seems to me, he's trying to trigger an Armegheddon...
and make a very tidy profit in the process!

And while Palestie might have lost a few battles, the grounds for the WAR still exist.

The Ninth Scribe
Hamas and Hizbollah are getting US weapons now:muddlehea ?????
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جوري
01-17-2008, 08:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
No you don't. If you were interested in genuine understanding, you wouldn't front-load your "question" with insulting characterizations and you wouldn't trot out what your opponents arguments are to be in order to play in your little sand box.

Here is my opinion. You are a close-minded automaton seeking to get a dose of happy juice by basking in the glow of what you perceive to be the lesser automatons as they shower approbation upon you. Everyone...get out your rose petals! Huzzah!

Not that the dear brother needs a defense, I think your attitude speaks volume.. I don't think the members here have a better opinion of you than you do of his, further I personally think you a fraud..

let me demonstrate:














pls give me the diagnosis of each of the above...

I see you online now, and don't have more than ten minutes to wait around for you to consult google, any carribean trained nurse's aid can get the above in less than three minutes of straining.. let's see how well you do!

cheers
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
01-17-2008, 08:57 PM
He made it clear, to drum up support so before he can leave office he can have one last swipe at Iran (attack them)
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minaz
01-17-2008, 09:13 PM
Quoted by AvarAllahNoor He made it clear, to drum up support so before he can leave office he can have one last swipe at Iran (attack them)
Ah good point I forgot to mention. Iran does pose a threat to whatever balance of power that does exist in the region. In another thread in this section is an article of Robert Fisk's in yesterdays Independent where it mentions a $20billion arms deal to Saudi.
I think he does not want another war before he leaves as that would currently cost the Republicans the White House in 2009, however maybe one way of leaving office for him is to keep Irans neighbours strengthened for the near future.
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Ninth_Scribe
01-17-2008, 09:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Hamas and Hizbollah are getting US weapons now:muddlehea ?????
Whenever there's a huge shipment, it's a given that the lower rungs will pick up 10% of the shipment. That's what happened in Iraq a couple years back. Maliki's government still can't account for all the missing AK47s - but they're the weapon of choice in a lot of the Mujahideen movies :okay:

The Ninth Scribe
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snakelegs
01-17-2008, 09:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
Ah good point I forgot to mention. Iran does pose a threat to whatever balance of power that does exist in the region. In another thread in this section is an article of Robert Fisk's in yesterdays Independent where it mentions a $20billion arms deal to Saudi.
I think he does not want another war before he leaves as that would currently cost the Republicans the White House in 2009, however maybe one way of leaving office for him is to keep Irans neighbours strengthened for the near future.
i hope you're right, but i think he is insane enough to attack iran.
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Keltoi
01-17-2008, 09:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i hope you're right, but i think he is insane enough to attack iran.
If Iran keeps harassing naval ships in international waters he might not have a choice, regardless of how "insane" he might be.
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Ninth_Scribe
01-17-2008, 09:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by minaz
Iran does pose a threat to whatever balance of power that does exist in the region.
The U.S. government continues to form alliances with the governments in the Middle East, only to dispose of them later on when they no longer meet U.S. expectations. They did that with Saddam Hussein when it suited them. Then they disposed of him. They worked with several Iranian shiite militias, when it suited their purpose, and now they're trying to dispose of them too. This excerpt taken from an interview with Abu Musab al Zarqawi:

And those who entered with the Americans, they had no other aim except getting rid of the Ahl-as-Sunnah. The slogan of one unit (Badr, meaning to deceive) was, “Revenge! Revenge! from Tikrit to Anbar”.
He was referring to the invasion of Tel A'far which involved an air assault to chase Sunni insurgents into an awaiting ground army.

Now think carefully. The Badr brigades... they're an IRANIAN shiite militia, remember? So the U.S. used the Iranian militias to rid themselves of the Sunni fighters, and now that they feel confident that there aren't enough Sunni fighters left, they're going after all the Shiite ones, except those who can do tricks like: roll over, beg, and play dead. And yes, I'm referring to the Mahdi Army.

The Ninth Scribe
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Gator
01-17-2008, 11:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ninth_Scribe
And while Palestine might have lost a few battles, the cause of the WAR remains... and this is far from over.

The Ninth Scribe
Well the violence path has been going great so far for the Palestinian people. Only 500 more years and nuclear armed Israel is a goner. Good luck with that.
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Roasted Cashew
01-18-2008, 02:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
A compromise will under all circumenstances result in israel being recognized as a country, and I am against the idea of palestinian lands being recognized as israeli and changed into israeli.

By asking for a compromise you are accepting and recognizing the barbaric imperialistic terror acts of israel, for acts of gooodness and that is not only against your own people but it is also against your religion.

There is no compromising regarding this conflict, Israel simply cannot exist!
Though I am a Muslim, I might slightly disagree with you. Doesn't the Qur'an say:
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."

I think compromise is needed. I mean, after all the sufferings and hardship, it's time for peace and a sense security for our Palestinian brothers and sisters. I agree with the demands of Mahmoud Abbas - East Jerusalem; No settlements, Right of return for the refugees; Back to the 19?? borders, etc.

It's another thing if Israel doesn't fulfill those demands but we should at least give it a chance. I am as skeptic as you but I still haven't lost the sence of optimism and hope. Though I totally agree with the Palestinian resistance(except for suicide bombings and civilian murders) as GOD allowed it.

"...God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you over religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. God merely forbids you from taking as friends those who have fought you over religion and driven you from your homes and who supported your expulsion..."(Surat al-Mumtahana: 8-9)
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ahsan28
01-18-2008, 09:18 AM
The mighty President is upto his neck in global conflicts. He is hated and challenged everywhere. His blunders, brutalities and bias have triggered a world-wide insurgency, which he is trying to put down, under the false banner of the "Global War on Terror".

America cannot dictate the terms of what a Palestinian state will look like and that gives Israel free hand to grab more and more land and kill Palestinians on daily basis.
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ahsan28
01-18-2008, 09:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
Though I am a Muslim, I might slightly disagree with
I think compromise is needed.
Not the way, Israel wants. That would be huge injustice to the sacrifices given by the Palestinians.
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Keltoi
01-18-2008, 03:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
The mighty President is upto his neck in global conflicts. He is hated and challenged everywhere. His blunders, brutalities and bias have triggered a world-wide insurgency, which he is trying to put down, under the false banner of the "Global War on Terror".

America cannot dictate the terms of what a Palestinian state will look like and that gives Israel free hand to grab more and more land and kill Palestinians on daily basis.
What "worldwide" insurgency are you referring to? If you are referring to Islamic extremism, President Bush is hardly the only world leader who considers them enemies of civilization.

As for America not dictating the terms, that is true, the U.S. diplomats involved work as mediators. Adding to that, it is hard to settle on the specifics of a peace deal when there is a group like Hamas who is opposed to to any peace deal that doesn't involve the end of Israel as a state.
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Cognescenti
01-18-2008, 04:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
The mighty President is upto his neck in global conflicts. He is hated and challenged everywhere. His blunders, brutalities and bias have triggered a world-wide insurgency, which he is trying to put down, under the false banner of the "Global War on Terror".

America cannot dictate the terms of what a Palestinian state will look like and that gives Israel free hand to grab more and more land and kill Palestinians on daily basis.
Yeah...that's it. Everything was just fine before Bush took office. The "all problems in the Muslim world are caused by the West" mantra is seriously tiresome.

You do seem to be at odds with your compatriots. On the one hand we are told Israel only survives from the support of the US and now you are saying the US cannot dictate terms to Israel (which is laregly true). It seems to me somebody has to be wrong. I tend to take your view on this point.

The US postion is that the Palestinian state needs to be economically viable and contiguous and that the Oslo Accord applies to settlements around Jerusalem (in other words, Israel needs to stop further construction there). Israel told us politely to jump in a lake on that issue.
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Cognescenti
01-18-2008, 04:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Not that the dear brother needs a defense, I think your attitude speaks volume.. I don't think the members here have a better opinion of you than you do of his, further I personally think you a fraud..

let me demonstrate:














pls give me the diagnosis of each of the above...

I see you online now, and don't have more than ten minutes to wait around for you to consult google, any carribean trained nurse's aid can get the above in less than three minutes of straining.. let's see how well you do!

cheers
Oh goodie. The first image is a 12-lead that is about 3 x 4 inches on my screen. Thanks for all the kilobytes. Fast, wide complex, monomorphic rhythm..makes you think V Tach, but as you goal is no doubt to make me look bad, I suspect a trap. There is something going on in the anterior leads. It looks like every other complex has a P-wave so it may a bundle branch problem explaining the QRS morphology. You will need to give me something that has more than 10 pixels. The rhytm strip is absolutely unreadable at this resolution.

Image 2...2 polymorphic QRS complexes with associated P-waves. The PR interval appears to be increasing (hard to tell after 2 complexex). The third complex may be a junctional beat indicating AV blockade. Then a run of V Tach...followed by what is probably a normally conducted beat...then another brief run of V Tach....then back to narrow complex again

Image 3 ....chaotic..looks bad ...V Fib

Image 4....absolutely microscopic on my screen. Looks like intermittent AV blockade with the odd junctional escape beat.

Image 5....black rectangle....might be your vacation pictures from Carlsbad Caverns or it could be a colonoscopy pic with a really, really bad prep.

So what happened? A couple of days ago we were having an interesting discussion about what goes on inside a mosque and now you are back to accusing me of having tertiary syphilis or to be suffering from alcoholism or even baldness.

Look, if I hurt your feelings in the kooky konspiracy discussion, I am sorry, you seem like an intelligent woman. I still can't believe you accept garbage like that.
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AvarAllahNoor
01-18-2008, 04:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
If Iran keeps harassing naval ships in international waters he might not have a choice, regardless of how "insane" he might be.
Yes, you're right! Prior to this. dubya didn't entertain the idea, did he....:eek:
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Muezzin
01-18-2008, 04:54 PM
PA and Cog, as... entertaining as this feud is, can all parties just drop it? Please?

Thank you.
Reply

جوري
01-18-2008, 04:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Oh goodie. The first image is a 12-lead that is about 3 x 4 inches on my screen. Thanks for all the kilobytes. Fast, wide complex, monomorphic rhythm..makes you think V Tach, but as you goal is no doubt to make me look bad, I suspect a trap. There is something going on in the anterior leads. It looks like every other complex has a P-wave so it may a bundle branch problem explaining the QRS morphology. You will need to give me something that has more than 10 pixels. The rhytm strip is absolutely unreadable at this resolution.

Image 2...2 polymorphic QRS complexes with associated P-waves. The PR interval appears to be increasing (hard to tell after 2 complexex). The third complex may be a junctional beat indicating AV blockade. Then a run of V Tach...followed by what is probably a normally conducted beat...then another brief run of V Tach....then back to narrow complex again

Image 3 ....chaotic..looks bad ...V Fib

Image 4....absolutely microscopic on my screen. Looks like intermittent AV blockade with the odd junctional escape beat.

Image 5....black rectangle....might be your vacation pictures from Carlsbad Caverns or it could be a colonoscopy pic with a really, really bad prep.

So what happened? A couple of days ago we were having an interesting discussion about what goes on inside a mosque and now you are back to accusing me of having tertiary syphilis or to be suffering from alcoholism or even baldness.

Look, if I hurt your feelings in the kooky konspiracy discussion, I am sorry, you seem like an intelligent woman. I still can't believe you accept garbage like that.

sorting through more crap.. this was delicious!.. you didn't get one of them correct save for number three.. I suspect google helps after 24hrs ey?
the last one all you had to do was click on it and it would have jumped on your screen FRAUDTER!


it was only a pleasure to expose you

cheerrs
Reply

جوري
01-18-2008, 05:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
PA and Cog, as... entertaining as this feud is, can all parties just drop it? Please?

Thank you.
the moron is writing a composition on a simple torsades de pointes (hard to tell) he says, this is visible to the most untrained ambulance driver and he poses himself as a doc-- I honestly didn't even pick challengeing ones by virtue of his being 'out of practice' just judging on how much time he spends on this forum

ah this has only been a pleasure!

:w:
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Cognescenti
01-18-2008, 05:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
the moron is writing a composition on a simple torsades de pointes (hard to tell) he says, this is visible to the most untrained ambulance driver and he poses himself as a doc-- I honestly didn't even pick challengeing ones by virtue of his being 'out of practice' just judging on how much time he spends on this forum

ah this has only been a pleasure!

:w:
Dearest, Toursades de Pointes is a ventriculalr tachycardia. I still can't get the last one to work on my sytem.

Glad you had fun though. I had fun too. I thought it was kind of challenging. You do realize I do Pediatrics. Some of my patients weigh 1 kg. They don't have ventricular arrhythmias. They don't have Toursade de Pointes. They don't even have PVC's.

You want to talk about the genetics of CF or the clincal features of Trisomy 18...we could have a good chat. BTW...what were the answers..I refuse to believe nothing I said about the others is correct.
Reply

جوري
01-18-2008, 05:47 PM
Children don't get congenital heart disease? no tetralogy of fallot, no transpositions of the great vesseles? patent ductus arteriosus? no right to left shunts?
Anyhow I made my point and the rest goes on your conscious.. I have never encountered a more acidic pediatrician.. and that was the whole pt. of this exercise. Try to represent your profession if that is actually what you are (I have strong doubts)

1-supraventricular tachycardia
2-torsades de pointes indeed is a ventricular tachycardia but torsades de pointes has a very specific electrocardiographic recognition!
3-v-fib -- as easy to pick up as asystole but I gave you credit!
4-multifocal atrial tachycardia
5- which was the only challenging one as the 'delta' waves need a keen discerning eye of a cardiologist or someone who has recently reviewed it was Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome.
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AvarAllahNoor
01-18-2008, 06:06 PM
This has turned into a ''I'm better than you' thead!
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krypton6
01-18-2008, 06:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
Though I am a Muslim, I might slightly disagree with you. Doesn't the Qur'an say:
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)."
Israel have got all they ever wished for, ofcourse they want "peace" now!
Israel have stolen beyond 90% of Palestine, killed thousands of civilians, and driven millions away from their homes, do you really expect muslims to give any compromise after all this? Israel does not want peace! Peace in Israel would result on millions of jews moving to Israel, and as time goes and more jews arrive, Israel will get bigger and bigger and as it gets bigger and bigger, the islamic nations will get smaller and smaller! Israel does not want peace! If peace is what they want, then they would pack their bags and get the F out of Palestine, apologize for what they have done, and rebuild Palestine and give them their wealth back. Israel does not want peace, and peace they shall never get!

You cant invade a country, kill its people, steal its money and and lands, and then ask for peace! Its to late for peace!

The quran verse is more towards a real war, where 2 countries are fighting each other without any imperialism involved!

format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
I think compromise is needed. I mean, after all the sufferings and hardship, it's time for peace and a sense security for our Palestinian brothers and sisters. I agree with the demands of Mahmoud Abbas - East Jerusalem; No settlements, Right of return for the refugees; Back to the 19?? borders, etc.
A compromise should never take place, especially after all the suffering and harm that israel have caused! Should we give up on what so many palestinians died for, and start compromising with the enemy instead?
If all palestinians one day accept and recognize israel, my goal will no longer be returning the lost and forgotten lands to them, my goal will be returning the lands to muslims, and not least return the betraying palestinians to god.

format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
It's another thing if Israel doesn't fulfill those demands but we should at least give it a chance. I am as skeptic as you but I still haven't lost the sence of optimism and hope. Though I totally agree with the Palestinian resistance(except for suicide bombings and civilian murders) as GOD allowed it.
They wont fulfill anything because they cant! As more jews come to israel, israel will eventually grow and start imperialising again. We should never even give Israel a chance!

I agree with the palestinians who kill the israelis, INCLUDING the suicide bombing of the israeli "ciivlians", I am amazed by those suicide bombers and I wish them the best. You see in israel there are no civilians, theres not alot of places in this world where a person can just say "Nuke it", Israel on the other hand is one of the few because there trully are no innocent civilians in israel.

format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
"...God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you over religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. God merely forbids you from taking as friends those who have fought you over religion and driven you from your homes and who supported your expulsion..."(Surat al-Mumtahana: 8-9)
This verse backs me up. Here it clearly says; God forbids you from being good to those who have fought against your religion or driven you from your homes
God forbids you from being friends with those who have fought against your religion or driven you from your homes.

Israel have fought against our religion, by firstly banning Islam in Israel.
This verse that you just showed me, is a part of the quran, and if any person want to live in israel one cannot fight the government or fight israel. So in order to live in israel you must accept the israelis, the same people who drove you from your house. Israel does not allow this verse in the Quran, and a quran without this any verse is not a quran, thereby we can conclude that Islam is banned in israel. Do we not agree?

Israel have also driven us from our homes.

Conclusion: Peace with Israel is not only against the human moral, but it is illogical and against Islam.
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truemuslim
01-18-2008, 06:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
This has turned into a ''I'm better than you' thead!
lol yeah...lol
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Cognescenti
01-18-2008, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Children don't get congenital heart disease? no tetralogy of fallot, no transpositions of the great vesseles? patent ductus arteriosus? no right to left shunts?
Sure they do..they just don't have ventricular arrhythmias (except in rare cases). I can spot RVH from 20 ft away and I can spot a subtle ASD murmur and a peripheral pulmonary artery murmur because I deal with those.

Anyhow I made my point and the rest goes on your conscious... I have never encountered a more acidic pediatrician.. and that was the whole pt. of this exercise. Try to represent your profession if that is actually what you are (I have strong doubts)
Glad to hear I made you feel better. Thanks for your advice. I like kids and they like me, but my professional obligation does not extend to ideological enemies of the US on the internet (not talking about you).:smile:



1-supraventricular tachycardia
I can accept that...but you have to give a guy an image with enough resolution to see the **** P-waves. There is also something wrong with those QRS's..I suspect a bundle branch defect.[/QUOTE]

2-torsades de pointes indeed is a ventricular tachycardia but torsades de pointes has a very specific electrocardiographic recognition!
Yes, I see your point, but is that really fair to show me a
3 beat run of V Tach and then bust my chops because I don't call Toursades?

3-v-fib -- as easy to pick up as asystole but I gave you credit!
Why..that is bloody generous of you.

4-multifocal atrial tachycardia
Certainly possible..but shouldn't the image be big enough to distinguish the P wave morpholgy? How do you expect someone to read multiple atrial foci without being able to see the difference between the P-waves. Seems to me, even if it is as you say, there is intermittent AV block

5- which was the only challenging one as the 'delta' waves need a keen discerning eye of a cardiologist or someone who has recently reviewed it was Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome.
I actually picked up a case of WPW on a teen runner a few months ago. Still cant get the pic to pop up on my system.

Can we call a truce please so we dont make Muzzein mad?
Reply

Cognescenti
01-18-2008, 06:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
This has turned into a ''I'm better than you' thead!
:D..yes... sorry
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AvarAllahNoor
01-18-2008, 06:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Peace in Israel would result on millions of jews moving to Israel, and as time goes and more jews arrive, Israel will get bigger and bigger and as it gets bigger and bigger, the islamic nations will get smaller and smaller! .[/B]
This is absurd! How many Jews do you think there are worldwide? 5 billion? 10 billion...? There are a few million (6/7 million I may be wrong) You think they are going to 'take over' all the Islamic nations? lol whatever it is you're taking dude, I'd give it up...

Also If you go by what you've said, then no peace is possible because of the past (and what is done today) Luckily people don't seem to hold the same view as you or we'd never have forgiven the germans, or the chinese etc etc ....
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ahsan28
01-18-2008, 07:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Yeah...that's it. Everything was just fine before Bush took office. The "all problems in the Muslim world are caused by the West" mantra is seriously tiresome.
So you are not ready to hold accountable your hero who has cost America its reputation in the world, besides causing destabilisation in entire Middle East and putting yet another bloody stain on the record of US leadership and another entry in the annals of US atrocities :embarrass

Did you ever take the pain to know about corpses of countless innocent victims of war on terror :embarrass

Have you ever heard about the term stress?


An arab lady Layla Anwar has tried to define the term in its true sense. It will increase your knowledge :cry:

Please go through the contents carefully:-

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle19073.htm
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krypton6
01-18-2008, 07:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
This is absurd! How many Jews do you think there are worldwide? 5 billion? 10 billion...? There are a few million (6/7 million I may be wrong) You think they are going to 'take over' all the Islamic nations? lol whatever it is you're taking dude, I'd give it up...


Around 6 Million jews have caused so much harm in the middle east, god knows what harm further 14 Million jews alone could do.

Lets look away from the jews for a moment. Millions of christians support israel, peace in israel would make many christians move to israel, and we both agree on how many christians exist today. Not many christians are in fact against israel!

We dont even have to talk about jews and christians, its generally the whole west! Israel will turn into a western nation in the middle of the middle east, and there's no doubt that millions of westerns would move there if only peace existed there.

It does not even matter really, at the bottom line israel are living on stolen lands and that is not accepted, but fact is that the further the palestinians recognize israel the more israel will demand and the more they will grow.

format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Also If you go by what you've said, then no peace is possible because of the past (and what is done today) Luckily people don't seem to hold the same view as you or we'd never have forgiven the germans, or the chinese etc etc ....
Germany apologized and are against their past acts and they admit all of their past acts as wrong doings; They have bin forgiven by the entire world.(Same with the chinese)

Israel on the other hand are not even recognizing their past as acts of terrorism or even wrong acts, nor have they EVER apologized for their acts of terrorism and nor have they EVER helped the palestinians, and nor have they ever bin forgiven!

There WILL be peace in the middle east! It is only a matter of time before america will no longer be the worlds second top leading millitary super power.
India, China, Russia or Brazil will be the new super powers, and do you really expect any of them to be so stupid, that they are willing to support and maintain a small state called israel knowing that doing so will make them the enemies of 1.25 Billion people? I highly doubt that they will do so!

So as I said; it is only a matter of time before america will stop its massive yearly 3.5 billion aid to israel, and when that hapends the israelis will be gone, and peace will return to the middle east.
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AvarAllahNoor
01-18-2008, 08:13 PM
Hmmm, being all anti jew won't reolve the issue. Many jews who live outside are against what Isreal are doing. So you're tarring them all with the same brush mate.
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krypton6
01-18-2008, 09:00 PM
No I'm not against jews, in fact I like jews even more than christians, its just the cultural difference that makes me like prefere christians.

I am not against jews, I am against imperialism. Not many jews are against Israel just so you know!

Im not taking them with the same brush, it does not matter what their political aspects are, anyone that moves to israel will cause israel to grow regardless of ones political views, and most jews will move to israel as time goes if it gets safer, less than 1-5% of jews are actually against israel, and even less christians are against israel.
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Keltoi
01-18-2008, 09:44 PM
The population of Israel will grow due to immigration by non-Jews. I think the Jewish immigration to Israel has declined somewhat. When you have a democratic state with a viable economy the population will grow, regardless of the political situation.
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Cognescenti
01-18-2008, 10:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
So you are not ready to hold accountable your hero who has cost America its reputation in the world, besides causing destabilisation in entire Middle East and putting yet another bloody stain on the record of US leadership and another entry in the annals of US atrocities :embarrass]
Ashan...that is the kind of rabid, spittle at the corner of the mouth, irrational anti-Americanism that will undercut you arguments except among the hard-cores who think just like you.

How about this. I will not claim OBL to be your hero and you don't claim Bush to be my hero. How is that, pal?

"destabilized" the ME...:yawn: That is so lame. Afghanistan had a decades long civil war before the US got involved after 9-11. Iraq was "stable"...yeah, sure, because it was a police state and all the troublemakers were either dead or in Hussein's prisons. Thanks to US forces in Kuwait, he hadn't invaded that country in few years. Pakistan had a military dictatorship...and was on the brink of war every month with India over the Kashmir. Lebanon was under the iron fist of Syrian. Lybia had a nuke development program. And, of course, Israel and the Palestinians were living in perfect harmony. We are talking about the Middle East on the 3rd planet from the sun, aren't we?
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minaz
01-19-2008, 12:14 AM
We are talking about the Middle East on the 3rd planet from the sun, aren't we?
There was a time when many saw the region as the light of the world.

There has been a lot of passionate opinions on this thread (and not just against one an other through strange tests?!!?), with Bush trying to stabilise the region by tackling the root cause of most of the anomosity, I wander if it will ever return to its former glory or just be a distant world.
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جوري
01-19-2008, 12:23 AM
it will happen as it is meant to happen.. read sura 17..
plus this.. you'll feel better insha'Allah
http://www.salaattime.com/downloads/...%20victory.pdf


:w:
Reply

krypton6
01-19-2008, 12:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
The population of Israel will grow due to immigration by non-Jews. I think the Jewish immigration to Israel has declined somewhat. When you have a democratic state with a viable economy the population will grow, regardless of the political situation.
So you mean that westerns are the ones who will move to israel! And as the population of israel grows, more lands will be stolen and that cannot happend.
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Roasted Cashew
01-19-2008, 03:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
A compromise should never take place, especially after all the suffering and harm that israel have caused! Should we give up on what so many palestinians died for, and start compromising with the enemy instead?
If all palestinians one day accept and recognize israel, my goal will no longer be returning the lost and forgotten lands to them, my goal will be returning the lands to muslims, and not least return the betraying palestinians to god.
[/B]

So what is your solution to this Israeli-Palestinian conflict? They way you are talking is exactly how some hard line Zionists talk about Imprealising Palestine without compromise to Palestinians and etc,etc. I mean I'm sure there are hard liners on the other side as well. It's time to put ego, self-pride a side. Don't you think that the Jews deseve a home as well? I know it can be anywhere else on the world but don't you understand that they have their own holy lands in Israel. Just like we back our resistance with the Qur'an they back their occupation with their holy book. It's time we stop fighting and "get-over" the past. There will be time when other Zionist hardliners will be Pm and Presidents. if an oppurtunity rises, let's accept it. Any ya, let us assume if the demands of Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas are fullfilled, would you not be happy?
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Keltoi
01-19-2008, 04:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
So you mean that westerns are the ones who will move to israel! And as the population of israel grows, more lands will be stolen and that cannot happend.
Actually, the Arab population in Israel is rising. Westerners will usually stick to the West.
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Pygoscelis
01-19-2008, 04:30 AM
I get sick of the entire conflict taking so much of the world's attention. I frankly don't care much anymore about Israel or Palestine. I say we give the two sides 5 years to make nice with each other or we eliminate them BOTH and then give the land to somebody who never complains, like Greenland or something. Maybe a common threat will make them work together for a change.
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krypton6
01-19-2008, 02:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
So what is your solution to this Israeli-Palestinian conflict? They way you are talking is exactly how some hard line Zionists talk about Imprealising Palestine without compromise to Palestinians and etc,etc. I mean I'm sure there are hard liners on the other side as well. It's time to put ego, self-pride a side. Don't you think that the Jews deseve a home as well? I know it can be anywhere else on the world but don't you understand that they have their own holy lands in Israel. Just like we back our resistance with the Qur'an they back their occupation with their holy book. It's time we stop fighting and "get-over" the past. There will be time when other Zionist hardliners will be Pm and Presidents. if an oppurtunity rises, let's accept it. Any ya, let us assume if the demands of Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas are fullfilled, would you not be happy?
Israel the empire that existed, was a great empire 2000 YEARS AGO! The first jews who lived in Israel were following the valid judaism, those jews were no less than muslims! So you cannot say that the israelis were the ancestors of the modern jews. The modern jews are the children of the jews who continued to follow the unvalid Judaism.

In islam you believe that christianity and judaism were both valid to follow at their own ages, and anyone who followed it at the time they were valid are considered muslims. The jews of Israel were muslims, it was only after many hundreds of years that judaism became unvalid to follow. The modern jews claim that Judaism was never changed, muslims claim that it was!
Muslims claim that the first israelis were in fact no less than "muslims" (bani-israel), jews claim that the first israelis were "jews", which is true but they fail to realise and understand that in islam anyone who followed judaism at the time that it was valid to follow, are considered muslims (bani-israel).

What the zionists are doing is completely rediculous. The ottomans lost their empire nearly a century ago, can they claim it back? The romans lost their empire ages ago but can they claim it back? How come the jews can claim a empire back that they lost 2700 years ago? Why can jews but muslims or romans cannot reclaim their empires? Why

Fine jews invade another country and steal their lands! But why did they have to do it in such a barbaric way killing thousands of defending civilians? Why did they have to kill so many innocent children, and why did they have to bulldoze their houses, why did they have to steal theirs riches? Why did they have to steal 90% of their lands! Why couldnt they just live with 10% and leave 90% to the palestinians? Not to mention why DO they have to...!
They are still killing thousands of civilians, still bulldozing houses, still stealign the money of families, still stealing more lands! The fact that they have done all that makes it too late for a compromise!

The israeilis do not deserve a home! They have proven that they do not deserve a home. They have proven that death is the only thing they deserve, and they shall get what they deserve.

Perhaps if they asked the palestinians first, and bought the lands instead of stealing it, it would be "allright", but they barbarically stole it and are stealing it!

The solution for all this is kicking the israelis out of palestine. This will happend and noone can deny that! America wont be the worlds second top leading millitary super power for ever! In less than 50 years India, Russia, Brazil or China will be the leading super powers, and do you really believe that they want to start a war against 1.25 Billion muslims? No they will not, and when we reach that age Israel will be alone in the middle east, and you dont need to be smart to know that their furture is not bright. The palestinians will just have to keep doing what they have bin doing so greatly for the last 60 years, they will if god willing return to their lands!

"Actually, the Arab population in Israel is rising. Westerners will usually stick to the West."

The arab population of israel is not rising in anyway! The only arabs in israel are the betrayers or the ones stuck there but its not rising. On the other hand the arab population of Palestine is rising greatly! Giving the avarage family more than 5 children!


(God I hate writing)
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krypton6
01-19-2008, 02:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I say we give the two sides 5 years to make nice with each other or we eliminate them BOTH and then give the land to somebody who never complains
If someone stole your house and killed your family would you not complain?
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Cognescenti
01-19-2008, 03:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I get sick of the entire conflict taking so much of the world's attention. I frankly don't care much anymore about Israel or Palestine. I say we give the two sides 5 years to make nice with each other or we eliminate them BOTH and then give the land to somebody who never complains, like Greenland or something. Maybe a common threat will make them work together for a change.
I too am sick of the whole thing. I am sick of the Arab side for whining about losing land after they started several wars to exterminate the Jews. I am sick of the Jewish settlers waving an old text in the air and claiming they have a God-given right. I am sick of the corrupt Palestinian leadership and I am sick of the iditotic Jewish zealots who assassinate their own leaders when they try to make peace. I am sick of the two-faced Arab "leaders" who pretend to advocate for the Palestinians when they in fact perpetuate the problem to keep restive groups at home occupied. I am sick of the Iranians and Hizbollah who pretend they are helping the Palestinians when, in fact, any idot can see that shooting rockets into Israel will not defeat Israel, it will just make the peace process fizzle.

I am also getting pretty **** tired of web denizens claiming that Israel can only survive because of US aid and US aircraft carriers turned the balance in the 67 war and other such idiocies which seem to abound here. As for the video of a whole street-full of retarded, insular, deluded Palestinian men, women and children dancing in glee at the news of the WTC collapse...that is just the icing on the cake. I say **** *** *** at this point. If they can't get along, let them duel to the death with the weapons they have and when they run out they can use stones and olive branches. If the Biblical prophesies turn out true then I am covered, if the Quranic prophesies turn out true then I will try to revert real quick. If one side has to win, I would lean toward the Jews but sometimes it is fun to vote for the underdogs. I suspect that a big, smoking crater would be the most likely outcome. That is fine too, then I could get back to reading high school football scores instead of stories about homicide bombers.
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Muezzin
01-19-2008, 03:38 PM
Time out. People need to seriously consider the way in which they express their opinions.

Passion is fine. Advocating genocide of two groups of people is not.

Thread closed.
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