Government ready for Wilders' film fall-out

[Lina]

Government ready for Wilders' film fall-out
Friday 18 January 2008

Government security experts have drawn up a 20-page document detailing how to deal with the expected fall-out of the anti-Koran film being made by MP Geert Wilders, the Volkskrant reports on Friday.

The paper says the document, marked 'state secret' has been circulated to need-to-know ministers only.

There are also instructions for diplomatic staff so that they will be ready to deal with protests and embassy evacuation plans have been drawn up, the paper says.

Ambassadors in Islamic countries are currently talking to their contacts about the film. While stressing that freedom of speech is an important in the Netherlands, they are also making it clear that Wilders’ opinions are not shared by the government, the paper says.

The film is due to be screened at the end of the month.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive...for_wilder.php

[Keltoi]

While I am a proponent of free speech, I have to wonder if this director should think long and hard how he is going to feel if people are murdered because of his movie.

...actually, maybe he will consider that justification for his views.

[Mikayeel]

Salam 3alekum lina, r u from holland aswell:)? cuz i had similiar thread a while ago:) salam

[The_Prince]

who cares, let him make his silly movie, it aint gonna affect us, ill tell you from now 99% of Muslims dont even know about this film, the only way Muslims are going to find out is when Muslim politicians and groups start bringing it up, then it gives it popularity amongst non-Muslims, and it makes Muslims go watch it or read about it and it then ticks the Muslims off.

let the dogs bark.

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[The_Prince]

quite frankly who really cares what the dutch think? i dont want to sound rude but i find the dutch to be the most backward people on this earth, with their red light districts and wide legal prostitution, and all those bars and clubs where drugs are legal......its like satan's playground, so who really cares for the opinions of such ppl? i sure as heck wouldnt want their support! having them hate my religion and myself actually makes me feel good, cause i hate their ways and them as well! so were even.

[Lina]

Salam 3alekum lina, r u from holland aswell:)? cuz i had similiar thread a while ago:) salam

:w:

Yes, I am.

quite frankly who really cares what the dutch think? i dont want to sound rude but i find the dutch to be the most backward people on this earth, with their red light districts and wide legal prostitution, and all those bars and clubs where drugs are legal......its like satan's playground, so who really cares for the opinions of such ppl? i sure as heck wouldnt want their support! having them hate my religion and myself actually makes me feel good, cause i hate their ways and them as well! so were even.

What about Dutch people who are Muslim, like myself?

''Who cares about their opinions?'' So we should just let them say what they want about our deen and our Prophet sallah Allah alayhi wa sallam?

[The_Prince]

the dutch i was refering to arent the Muslim ones......................

[Mikayeel]

ik leef inmiddels niet meer in nedeland, maar toen in in nederland woonde was het erg.. :) effe wat nederlands prate al lang niet gedaan, en ik heb men exames in nederlands in en maandje...(ben nederlands al aardig vergeten)

How are things in holland now then? Are people bothered about this?(none muslims)

[Amadeus85]

European politics act in two extremes.Either they ban cartoons with 3 pigs not to offend "minoritis" either they do things like this Wilder.I just wonder what he wants to achieve by this.Doesnt he see that he wants to fight with the effects of the holland's crisis and not the cause.Because muslims didnt appear in Holland unwanted, they came there because native Dutches had better things to do than having more children to work for their country.

[minaz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

This guy sounds and definitly looks like a prick.

I guess I shall start boycotting Dutch products soon, I shall start with the national team at Euro '08 :D

[Trumble]

There is a sometimes a fine line between "freedom of speech" and "complete idiocy with totally predictable unpleasant consequences". This is the latter.

However;

who cares, let him make his silly movie, it aint gonna affect us, ill tell you from now 99% of Muslims dont even know about this film, the only way Muslims are going to find out is when Muslim politicians and groups start bringing it up, then it gives it popularity amongst non-Muslims, and it makes Muslims go watch it or read about it and it then ticks the Muslims off.

is an excellent point. If those who do know about it just ignore it, the muslims who don't know about it won't be offended and the non-muslims who don't know about it (and let's face it, the great majority of those who do) won't go and see it and the whole thing will quietly slip back into the obscurity from which it emerged.

[MTAFFI]

http://martinstanford.typepad.com/fo...braced-fo.html

I have to wonder what his goal is with this video... Is it for entertainment value for bigots and a******s, or is it to provoke Muslims into reacting irrationally to be able to say "See I told ya so".... I wont hate the Dutch for this, but I would like to jack this guy up a bit for being such a prick. I wonder if it would be OK for me to make a video that promoted distaste for blacks and showed someone ripping up the civil rights, etc. I agree with free speech but being disrespectful to the point of making a video and tearing up something that means something to a different people just isnt right. I wouldnt go into a riot about it, but if I ran into this guy I would take the opportunity to make him into a chew toy.

Anyways, I hope Muslims dont go crazy about it, it would be just playing right into the guys hand

[snakelegs]

who cares, let him make his silly movie, it aint gonna affect us, ill tell you from now 99% of Muslims dont even know about this film, the only way Muslims are going to find out is when Muslim politicians and groups start bringing it up, then it gives it popularity amongst non-Muslims, and it makes Muslims go watch it or read about it and it then ticks the Muslims off.

let the dogs bark.

i agree.
as i said on the other thread - it is a trap hoping to provoke enough muslims that a handful will go beserk and make good television plus increase support for conservative, anti-immigrant parties across europe.
i really hope that no one takes the bait - wouldn't that be a disappointment?

[Cognescenti]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

This guy sounds and definitly looks like a prick.

I guess I shall start boycotting Dutch products soon, I shall start with the national team at Euro '08 :D

OMG...what a total flamer Geert is. Not that there is anything wrong with that, of course :D

It seems like the Dutch government is trying to distance themselves already.

Prior to this thread, I thought Nordoeurophobia only extended to the Swedes and Danes. I appears I was mistaken.

[KAding]

The whole situation is so bizarre. Nobody knows what is actually going to happen in the movie, yet there is so much controversy and debate about it.

[KAding]

There is a sometimes a fine line between "freedom of speech" and "complete idiocy with totally predictable unpleasant consequences". This is the latter.

However;

is an excellent point. If those who do know about it just ignore it, the muslims who don't know about it won't be offended and the non-muslims who don't know about it (and let's face it, the great majority of those who do) won't go and see it and the whole thing will quietly slip back into the obscurity from which it emerged.

Lets hope so. But virtually nobody in the Muslim world saw the Muhammed cartoons either, yet that caused plenty of problems.

Local Muslim groups are all acting very mature and responsible on this matter. Nobody expects serious problems in Holland itself, but how Muslims abroad will respond remains to be seen. The Iranian parliament has already threatened to break ties with the Netherlands for example. There might be 'spontaneous agitation' on the 'Muslim street'.

[Amadeus85]

You may be right. For some bored youths every occassion is good to make some chaos.

[Lina]

ik leef inmiddels niet meer in nedeland, maar toen in in nederland woonde was het erg.. :) effe wat nederlands prate al lang niet gedaan, en ik heb men exames in nederlands in en maandje...(ben nederlands al aardig vergeten)

How are things in holland now then? Are people bothered about this?(none muslims)

Aha, zo.

Geen idee. Er is wel veel ophef over maar of de film daadwerkelijk zoveel aandacht toekomt; geen idee. We shall see, of helemaal niet. Misschien is er helemaal geen film, who knows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

This guy sounds and definitly looks like a prick.

I guess I shall start boycotting Dutch products soon, I shall start with the national team at Euro '08 :D

Googled him ay? Smart move.
I think the looks are part of his one man show. Pretty cool ha?

[snakelegs]

Googled him ay? Smart move.
I think the looks are part of the his one man show. Pretty cool ha?

wow - what a creep!

[krypton6]

If this turns out anti-islamic I dont care, but if he lies about Islam in this film, people should not be suprised if he ends up being killed, I hope he does if so..

[Lina]

wow - what a creep!

We shouldn't make fun of him.

We should make fun of his ideas ..mmokay :mmokay: ?

[snakelegs]

We shouldn't make fun of him.

We should make fun of his ideas ..mmokay :mmokay: ?

true say. i already posted my opinion earlier in the thread.

[Cognescenti]

If this turns out anti-islamic I dont care, but if he lies about Islam in this film, people should not be suprised if he ends up being killed, I hope he does if so..

So if he produces a savagely biting, but honest portrayal of Islam, which causes non-Muslims to recoil in fear...that's OK...but if he says Muslims are terrible baseball players because of their religion.....then he is to be killed???????

^o)

[snakelegs]

If this turns out anti-islamic I dont care, but if he lies about Islam in this film, people should not be suprised if he ends up being killed, I hope he does if so..

this is really short sighted and stupid. what will his death cause except a big increase in support for right wing parties across europe? will it end bigotry against muslims? no - it will feed it.
please think, man!

[Cognescenti]

this is really short sighted and stupid. what will his death cause except a big increase in support for right wing parties across europe? will it end bigotry against muslims? no - it will feed it.
please think, man!

Not to mention ending any talk about Dutch withdrawal from the Afghan mission.

[krypton6]

He can have his opinion about muslims and I dont care if he hates Islam, but when he starts spreading lies about Islam, he is passing the line.

Why should he live? He asked for death, let him get it, afterall he did ask for it and I doubt that anyone would miss him.

But I can see that anger is what he wants, and muslims getting mad about it and doing vice verca is exactly what he wants for that in his opinion proves his point, but its very hard to just shut your mouth when some one lies about your religion.

If muslims ignore this film, he wont just give up, he will make a new that is even more insulting and if that one is ignored then he will make a new and at some point or another we will have to do something about it if he keeps insulting our religion and keeps lying about it.

[Keltoi]

He can have his opinion about muslims and I dont care if he hates Islam, but when he starts spreading lies about Islam, he is passing the line.

Why should he live? He asked for death, let him get it, afterall he did ask for it and I doubt that anyone would miss him.

But I can see that anger is what he wants, and muslims getting mad about it and doing vice verca is exactly what he wants for that in his opinion proves his point, but its very hard to just shut your mouth when some one lies about your religion.

If muslims ignore this film, he wont just give up, he will make a new that is even more insulting and if that one is ignored then he will make a new and at some point or another we will have to do something about it if he keeps insulting our religion and keeps lying about it.

Which would make his case even stronger...

[Cognescenti]

BTW...I just realized Geert reminds me of one of those guys from that Lion-tamer act Siegfried and Roy. I hope things turn out better for him.

[krypton6]

Which would make his case even stronger...

As far as I know his bs is primary about muslims being the so called "terrorists" and threats to mankind, muslims being those who kill civilians every day.

Killing him is killing a person that diserves it, he is not innocent! It doesn't proove his point, he just doesn't seem to be capeable of figuring that out.

[snakelegs]

He can have his opinion about muslims and I dont care if he hates Islam, but when he starts spreading lies about Islam, he is passing the line.

Why should he live? He asked for death, let him get it, afterall he did ask for it and I doubt that anyone would miss him.

But I can see that anger is what he wants, and muslims getting mad about it and doing vice verca is exactly what he wants for that in his opinion proves his point, but its very hard to just shut your mouth when some one lies about your religion.

If muslims ignore this film, he wont just give up, he will make a new that is even more insulting and if that one is ignored then he will make a new and at some point or another we will have to do something about it if he keeps insulting our religion and keeps lying about it.

it may be hard to shut your mouth, but the alternative is to fall in to the trap. they are hoping to provoke muslims - why else do stuff like this?
if muslims ignore it, i doubt if he will keep making films. it will be a big disappointment for the right wing politicians.
someone lying about islam has no power to harm islam - islam's been around for 14 centuries and it's not going anywhere just because some one tells lies about it.
use your head - don't take the bait.

[Whatsthepoint]

Let me see, muslims should be free to take verses from the Bible and claim it is a violent book, that it fortells Mohammad etc, whereas Geert can't take verses from the Quran and say it is a violent book?

[krypton6]

When have any muslim claimed the Bible to be a violent book? Some might just hate christians, but I have never heard of anyone lying about the Bible and claiming it to be violent.

Geert is lying about the Quran, we have never lied about the Bible, and we have for shure never made a whole movie about it being violent.

[Whatsthepoint]

When have any muslim claimed the Bible to be a violent book? Some might just hate christians, but I have never heard of anyone lying about the Bible and claiming it to be violent.

Geert is lying about the Quran, we have never lied about the Bible, and we have for shure never made a whole movie about it being violent.

Geert is not lying about the Quran. He is merely making a possible interpretation into a movie. Salman Rushdie made it into a book.
Muslims are constanlty making movies about different non-christian interpreations of the Bible, ranging from denial of Jesus's divinity to the predictions of Muhammad, from the oppression of women to violence.
I've noticed you like youtube - there are plenty of videos there coming from muslims who claim the Bible is a violent book (which I think it is). Do you want those muslims dead as well?

[krypton6]

Muslims are constanlty making movies about different non-christian interpreations of the Bible, ranging from denial of Jesus's divinity to the predictions of Muhammad, from the oppression of women to violence.
I've noticed you like youtube - there are plenty of videos there coming from muslims who claim the Bible is a violent book (which I think it is). Do you want those muslims dead as well?

Geert is lying about the Quran, he freely takes words from each page and makes it into a lie and then claim that its the quran.

I wouldn't call making movies about non christians interpreations of the Bible, for insulting, and where are these movies?

Those muslims make those videos as a respond to the people who claim the quran to be a book of evil. They dont claim that the Bible is evil, they claim christians to be evil, and thats a whole another thing!

I dont want those muslims dead, because I have yet not heard of them lying about the Bible.

[Whatsthepoint]

Geert is lying about the Quran, he freely takes words from each page and makes it into a lie and then claim that its the quran.

I wouldn't call making movies about non christians interpreations of the Bible, for insulting, and where are these movies?

Those muslims make those videos as a respond to the people who claim the quran to be a book of evil. They dont claim that the Bible is evil, they claim christians to be evil, and thats a whole another thing!

I dont want those muslims dead, because I have yet not heard of them lying about the Bible.

Nobody's seen the movie so we don't know what methods Geert is using to prove the Quran is a violent book.
You say taking verses out of contex is lying. Well, that's what many muslims do when trying to prove the Bible fortells Mohammad or something like that.
christians do feel insulted with such thing, remember the Da Vinci code? The difference is, as Fishman said, that tehy're used of bing mocked and insulted so thy won't go about burning embassies and boycotting countries.
I told you, there are plenty on youtube. And I wasn't refering to movies only, there are plenty of websites, lectures etc.
The videos claim the Bible is violent. Muslims may make them out of their hate for Christians, but then Geert made the movie for the same reason: he isn't to fond of muslims and Islam.

[KAding]

He might be deceived or ignorant, but I do not believe he is lying, as in purposefully saying something he knows is wrong. His dislike of Islam is very genuine IMHO.

[minaz]

BTW...I just realized Geert reminds me of one of those guys from that Lion-tamer act Siegfried and Roy. I hope things turn out better for him.

Its true, Geert is like an offspring between the two!

Anywho, people are right in saying that we don't really know the full content of the film, however Geert is known to say controversial things such as "half the Qu'ran should be ripped out" so I suspect the worse out of this production. Guess we don't know how damaging this film will be until it is released. (I for one will probably find a site to stream it on, paid to watch the Golden Compass the other day and it was a load of crap!) Outrage may follow in Muslim streets, Geert may live, Geert may die- frankly I don't care!

God will serve the final judgement, as he will for us all.

[Cognescenti]

Its true, Geert is like an offspring between the two!

;D;D

[Lina]

Geert on FOX NEWS

[wilberhum]

Geert on FOX NEWS

That was a good watch. I highly recommend it.

The sad thing is that there are Muslims out there proving he is right.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan31.html

THE HAGUE -- Sometimes the threats come by e-mail. Other times, warnings show up on Internet chat sites. Occasionally they are short video clips. The latest has a soundtrack of Arabic song and automatic-weapons fire, and a photograph of the intended target -- a Dutch lawmaker, Geert Wilders.

"He is an enemy of Islam and he should be beheaded," the narrator of one video clip posted on the Internet says in Arabic, against the crackle of gunfire. Behead him, "and you will earn a place in paradise."

That is kind of like saying "If you say Islam is violent, I will kill you".

Why do some fall into these obvious traps?

[Muezzin]

The people who react violently are being idiotic.

The people who deliberately set out solely to provoke such people are being equally idiotic.

I went to an all boys school - a lot of fights resulted from this sort of stupidity. The rights and wrongs of people's positions cease to mean anything when both sides are being foolish. But hey, they're teenage boys - we give them detention for such behaviour. When adults act the same way we give them... therapy. Hmm.

Anyway, if you're saying something you feel needs to be said, and making what you deem a valid criticism (as opposed to sensationalist, strawman garbage calculated solely to cause controversy), that's fine in my eyes.

[MTAFFI]

The rights and wrongs of people's positions cease to mean anything when both sides are being foolish.

that statement couldnt be more true, and could probably be used on nearly every thread in world affairs.. Good statement

Peace

[crayon]

I seriously have a feeling this is just going to be another Theo Van Gogh episode.. Benefiting no one.

[Whatsthepoint]

I seriously have a feeling this is just going to be another Theo Van Gogh episode.. Benefiting no one.

Noone, except for anti-islamists!

[crayon]

I suppose it expresses their opinion, but that's about it, right?

Like, if I call a kid at school names or make fun of him, it doesn't do anyone any good.

[minaz]

I suppose it expresses their opinion, but that's about it, right?

People tend to forget opinions they have heard and spoken opinions don't have the same impact as does a visual media source. When this film is released, the main audience would be Islamaphobes and this distorted film will just heighten their mentality.

I aint against freedom of speech/opinion, however in my view, the creation of films and other media tools do far more damage, and exceed the freedom of speech.

[crayon]

People tend to forget opinions they have heard and spoken opinions don't have the same impact as does a visual media source. When this film is released, the main audience would be Islamaphobes and this distorted film will just heighten their mentality.

Ahh, true that. Hadn't thought of it that way..

[Whatsthepoint]

I suppose it expresses their opinion, but that's about it, right?

Like, if I call a kid at school names or make fun of him, it doesn't do anyone any good.

If you called the kid " a bad-tempered menace " and he ends up burning your house, you can always say "I told you so, I was telling the truth etc" which can eventually benefit your cause.

[Whatsthepoint]

People tend to forget opinions they have heard and spoken opinions don't have the same impact as does a visual media source. When this film is released, the main audience would be Islamaphobes and this distorted film will just heighten their mentality.

I aint against freedom of speech/opinion, however in my view, the creation of films and other media tools do far more damage, and exceed the freedom of speech.

http://www.islamicboard.com/exchange...-majority.html
http://masjidi.com/index.php?option=...d=3&id=237#237

Summary

To do dawah to the UK's non muslim population. And help them understand Islam.

We will do this by doing a mass dawah project, once we have the masjidi projected completed, for development of 1000 masjid sites, we will have a very large mailing list, we will be collecting funds for this project.

We will be doing a mail shot to 27 million households in the UK with a booklet on Islam, removing misconceptions, helping non muslims learn about Islam and will also put a DVD filled with audio, video and interactive learning.

What are your thoughts on this?

Mods, this is not off topic..

[Mikayeel]

Aha, zo.

Geen idee. Er is wel veel ophef over maar of de film daadwerkelijk zoveel aandacht toekomt; geen idee. We shall see, of helemaal niet. Misschien is er helemaal geen film, who knows.

Dat hoop ik maar, dat er helemaal geen film komt!, dan hoeft er niemand dood te gaan

[truemuslim]

^ sorry to get of topic here...but..what language is that? jw

[Whatsthepoint]

^ sorry to get of topic here...but..what language is that? jw

It's dutch. Yous should be able to understand some of it, as it has some similarities to English.

[snakelegs]

i watched the video.
i think he is probably voicing opinions and fears held by a number of europeans as they come to terms with a different culture in their midst. he is certainly entitled to his opinion, but i can see no reason to attack and label the qur'an and that strikes me as deliberately provoking for political gain, hoping some muslims will "go off" and make good tv in order to scare some more europeans some more and drive up support for right wing parties.

[minaz]

http://www.islamicboard.com/exchange...-majority.html
http://masjidi.com/index.php?option=...d=3&id=237#237


What are your thoughts on this?

Mods, this is not off topic..

I saw the thread on the main page but didn't click on it a few days back, sounds rather interesting. In Britain, we have always had Jehovah Witnesses post literature door to door and even come round for a chat (i guess its the same in some other countries- especially the US), I have also encountered mormons (many who come to spread their word from Utah) and they always give me the book of mormon (i think i've had 3 in my time!).
Anywho I don't know the content of the material on the DVD, but I suspect it does not have 'propaganda' or 'jihadi music' in the background :P If they do circulate 27million of these DVDs, the content would have to be basic- through the basics of islam, misconceptions can be ridden.

I see nothing wrong with the DVD if its content is truthful, something no doubt Wilders motion will lack.