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Roasted Cashew
01-23-2008, 11:12 AM
I mean is it against Islam for male teachers to teach female students. Obviously the male teacher won't be teaching only one student but a whole class of them. The girls would be wearing hijabs. Is there anything from the Qur'an or Hadith which can shed some light on this matter. Pls. I need to know more.
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01-23-2008, 11:23 AM
:salamext:

Why would it be haraam? It's education.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
01-23-2008, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

Why would it be haraam? It's education.
I think the same way but some say that only female teachers should teach female students and vice versa. Can someone proof that this is a wrong statement.
Reply

krypton6
01-23-2008, 02:08 PM
A teacher that is learning his girl students is to busy with thinking and talking, he does not have time to think of the girls.

And do Girl students look at their teacher sexually?

Only boys do that..
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01-23-2008, 02:15 PM
:salamext:

^ Generalisation.

Anyways, I don't see a problem with it if the girls are in Hijaab and stuff.
Reply

islamirama
01-23-2008, 02:50 PM
If you want to look at what Islam says and Islamic law says and not just people's opinions like thus far, then read this...

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&QR=8827

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=79549&ln=eng

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&QR=1121
Reply

sur
01-23-2008, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
I mean is it against Islam for male teachers to teach female students. Obviously the male teacher won't be teaching only one student but a whole class of them. The girls would be wearing hijabs. Is there anything from the Qur'an or Hadith which can shed some light on this matter. Pls. I need to know more.
For God sake, Islam is so easy & practical religion, don't make it impracticle one.:-

Fiqh-us-Sunnah: Supererogatory Prayer. Fiqh 2.153.
Ibn Hajar writes in Fath al-Bari, "Ibn as-Siraj related from Abu az-Zinad on the authority of 'Urwah from 'Aishah that the Prophet said that day: 'Let the Jews of Medinah know that our religion is spacious [and has room for relaxation] and I have been sent with an easy and straight forward religion. "'
Islam of Prophet Muhammad(saw) is EASY religion while “talibanised” ppl r making it impossible-to-follow religion.



Lot of women used to come to Prophet to ask Qs. They were like female students.

Prophet used to answer them(teach them) like a male teacher.


So do we still need a fatwa on this issue???!!!
.
.
.
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AvarAllahNoor
01-23-2008, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by krypton6
A teacher that is learning his girl students is to busy with thinking and talking, he does not have time to think of the girls.

And do Girl students look at their teacher sexually?

Only boys do that..
You'd be surprised.

I don't know of the Qurans stance on it, but If you're teaching, I think the last thing on the teachers mind would to be oogling the students. (One would presume )
Reply

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01-23-2008, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by sur
For God sake, Islam is so easy & practical religion, don't make it impracticle one.:-

Fiqh-us-Sunnah: Supererogatory Prayer. Fiqh 2.153.
Ibn Hajar writes in Fath al-Bari, "Ibn as-Siraj related from Abu az-Zinad on the authority of 'Urwah from 'Aishah that the Prophet said that day: 'Let the Jews of Medinah know that our religion is spacious [and has room for relaxation] and I have been sent with an easy and straight forward religion. "'
Islam of Prophet Muhammad(saw) is EASY religion while “talibanised” ppl like u r making it impossible-to-follow religion.



Lot of women used to come to Prophet to ask Qs. They were like female students.

Prophet used to answer them(teach them) like a male teacher.


So do we still need a fatwa on this issue???!!!
.
.
.
:salamext:

Respect! :thumbs_up
Reply

crayon
01-23-2008, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by krypton6
A teacher that is learning his girl students is to busy with thinking and talking, he does not have time to think of the girls.

And do Girl students look at their teacher sexually?

Only boys do that..
Oh really?
You'd be surprised.

edit- i just reread the first couple posts and realized i said the exact same thing AvarAllahNoor said. some kind of mind trick must be going on. oh the drama!
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Al-Zaara
01-23-2008, 03:22 PM
Selam aleykum,

Brother islamirama, I must say, those links kinda confused me and I gotta point out some things. So here are some links I recommend you to read:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503547498

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503545080

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...15ed3a9a01c69a



Firstly this piece from link one:

There is no need for mixing. Studying in this school is not essential; so long as a woman can read and write and knows the teachings of her religion, that is sufficient, because she was created for that, i.e., to worship Allaah. Anything beyond that is not essential.

I find this statement to almost force a woman to think 'further education' is not necessary, 'cause it's totally haram if there's any male there. Some people don't have a choice, there are no just female schools, for example here where I live. Of course if there is, one should consider why you don't attend it, as it's way better to go there Islamically thinking.. Is it money that stops you? Or simply don't wanting to go? The intention plays a big role here.

In this time of life, people cannot go uneducated or their lives will be very hard, uneccessary hard, especially for a woman who is not really suited to do physically demanding jobs like males can do, and I'm thinking




And then in the second link it said the following:

When a woman is with a man who is a non-mahram her entire being is ‘awrah. As for covering the head and showing the face, this is not full hijab.

I beg you pardon, but the majority of scholars do not say niqaab, or covering the whole face + eyes, as obligatory, and that covering the hair and body with loose clothing which does not sexually attract, is the full hijab. Face and hands can be visible.

Reply

sur
01-23-2008, 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by sur
For God sake, Islam is so easy & practical religion, don't make it impracticle one.:-

Fiqh-us-Sunnah: Supererogatory Prayer. Fiqh 2.153.
Ibn Hajar writes in Fath al-Bari, "Ibn as-Siraj related from Abu az-Zinad on the authority of 'Urwah from 'Aishah that the Prophet said that day: 'Let the Jews of Medinah know that our religion is spacious [and has room for relaxation] and I have been sent with an easy and straight forward religion. "'
Islam of Prophet Muhammad(saw) is EASY religion while “talibanised” ppl like u r making it impossible-to-follow religion.



Lot of women used to come to Prophet to ask Qs. They were like female students.

Prophet used to answer them(teach them) like a male teacher.


So do we still need a fatwa on this issue???!!!
.
.
.
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

Respect! :thumbs_up
:wasalamex

I'd like to add that Aisha(ra) was like a female teacher, who taught a LOT of Ahadeed to Male students. & Many of those Ahadees r on issues related to marrital life & menstruation etc. & some of them r quite openly talking on these issues.

That speaks for itself that islam has no problem with teacher of opposite gender.
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------
01-23-2008, 03:50 PM
:salamext:

Jazaak Allaah Khayr for the links sis Zaara and the explanation above bro sur! :D
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Danah
01-23-2008, 05:04 PM
I think there is no problem in that because from what I know that Mohammed (PBUH) was teaching the women that time about the instructions of Islam.
so the same thing happen her in schools or universities
Reply

snakelegs
01-23-2008, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by sur
For God sake, Islam is so easy & practical religion, don't make it impracticle one.:-

Fiqh-us-Sunnah: Supererogatory Prayer. Fiqh 2.153.
Ibn Hajar writes in Fath al-Bari, "Ibn as-Siraj related from Abu az-Zinad on the authority of 'Urwah from 'Aishah that the Prophet said that day: 'Let the Jews of Medinah know that our religion is spacious [and has room for relaxation] and I have been sent with an easy and straight forward religion. "'
Islam of Prophet Muhammad(saw) is EASY religion while “talibanised” ppl like u r making it impossible-to-follow religion.



Lot of women used to come to Prophet to ask Qs. They were like female students.

Prophet used to answer them(teach them) like a male teacher.


So do we still need a fatwa on this issue???!!!
.
.
.
it always amazes me how some delight in making the simple complicated.
btw, this is a good illustration of why i don't like islamqa - it seems they invariably take the harshest position possible on everything.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
01-24-2008, 04:20 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
it always amazes me how some delight in making the simple complicated.
btw, this is a good illustration of why i don't like islamqa - it seems they invariably take the harshest position possible on everything.
Ya, you are right. Islam q&a is off my list from now on.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
01-24-2008, 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by sur
'
Islam of Prophet Muhammad(saw) is EASY religion while “talibanised ppl like u r making it impossible-to-follow religion.
Pls, I'm not a Taliban nor "talibanized". I was asking this question after reading an article in TIME Magazine about female education in Afghanistan. What caught my attention is that some parents won't allow their female children to go to school because the teachers or male. BUT the teachers are male ONLY because there is shortage of female teachers. I think these parents need to be thought Islam first before they ruin their children's life.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
01-24-2008, 04:27 AM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Selam aleykum,

Brother islamirama, I must say, those links kinda confused me and I gotta point out some things. So here are some links I recommend you to read:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503547498

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503545080

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...15ed3a9a01c69a



Firstly this piece from link one:




I find this statement to almost force a woman to think 'further education' is not necessary, 'cause it's totally haram if there's any male there. Some people don't have a choice, there are no just female schools, for example here where I live. Of course if there is, one should consider why you don't attend it, as it's way better to go there Islamically thinking.. Is it money that stops you? Or simply don't wanting to go? The intention plays a big role here.

In this time of life, people cannot go uneducated or their lives will be very hard, uneccessary hard, especially for a woman who is not really suited to do physically demanding jobs like males can do, and I'm thinking




And then in the second link it said the following:




I beg you pardon, but the majority of scholars do not say niqaab, or covering the whole face + eyes, as obligatory, and that covering the hair and body with loose clothing which does not sexually attract, is the full hijab. Face and hands can be visible.
Al-Zaara, thank you very much for your links and explanation. Islam q&a takes the harshest and the most extreme position on everything.
Reply

Malaikah
01-24-2008, 09:23 AM
:sl:

Islamqa is run by shaykhs who are qualified to come to the conclusion that they reach. They don't choose and opinion because they like to be harsh but because they think it is correct.

And you would be surprised, many times they state very lenient opinion.

If you think the opinion is harsh, maybe you should realise that many of the fatwas are based on people living in Islamic countries and so obviously their situation is different to ours (living in non-Muslim countries), and that specific fatwas are not meant to be generalised either.

Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
I beg you pardon, but the majority of scholars do not say niqaab, or covering the whole face + eyes, as obligatory, and that covering the hair and body with loose clothing which does not sexually attract, is the full hijab. Face and hands can be visible.
There is no need to be so defensive. The shaykh was asked his opinion and he gave it. He has every right to follow the opinion that niqaab is compulsory.
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------
01-24-2008, 09:37 AM
:salamext:

^ She was not being 'defensive', she was merely stating other scholars opinions on the matter.

Regarding Islamqa, some of their fatwas make sense, but others seem to go to the extreme. Allaahu Aalim.
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IceQueen~
01-24-2008, 09:41 AM
Did anyone consider the fact that the Prophet (saw) set a separate day aside for the women? (to teach them)

Also if there is NOT any fear of fitnah then it should be ok inshaAllah, esp since there will always be situations where there may only be male teachers available...

Allah knows best.
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Malaikah
01-24-2008, 09:48 AM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
Regarding Islamqa, some of their fatwas make sense, but others seem to go to the extreme. Allaahu Aalim.
There is nothing extreme about following stricter opinions.
Reply

------
01-24-2008, 09:52 AM
:salamext:

Originally Posted by sur
For God sake, Islam is so easy & practical religion, don't make it impracticle one.:-

Fiqh-us-Sunnah: Supererogatory Prayer. Fiqh 2.153.
Ibn Hajar writes in Fath al-Bari, "Ibn as-Siraj related from Abu az-Zinad on the authority of 'Urwah from 'Aishah that the Prophet said that day: 'Let the Jews of Medinah know that our religion is spacious [and has room for relaxation] and I have been sent with an easy and straight forward religion. "'
Islam of Prophet Muhammad(saw) is EASY religion while “talibanised” ppl like u r making it impossible-to-follow religion.
.
.
:-\
Reply

Malaikah
01-24-2008, 12:34 PM
The "room for relaxation" is within the bounds of shariah. You can't possibly expect a shaykh to reject the opinion that he strongly believes to be correct because some people find it hard? If that were the case we would nothing left of our religion.

Some people will complain that praying five times a day is too hard and can't possibly be compulsory because the Prophet said that the religion was meant to be easy.

And how many people would abandon Ramadhan because it is too hard to go for that long with out food or drink? And how many people would commit zina because they feel that it is too hard to remain chaste?

That hadith can't be used as a reason for people to ignore what they believe is the truth because it seems to strict!
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Malaikah
01-24-2008, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by sur
Islam of Prophet Muhammad(saw) is EASY religion while “talibanised” ppl like u r making it impossible-to-follow religion.
There is no need to falsely label and accuse others like that. The sister is simply confused about something and she is asking to seek clarification. If people don't ask when they don't understand, how will they ever learn? People aren't born with the knowledge of the religion engraved in their chests, they need to ask in order to learn and we should respond to them kindly.
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01-24-2008, 12:42 PM
:salamext:

The "room for relaxation" is within the bounds of shariah.
SUBHAAN ALLAAH! Not wearing the Niqaab is Out of the bounds of Shariah now?!?!

Some people will complain that praying five times a day is too hard and can't possibly be compulsory because the Prophet said that the religion was meant to be easy.

And how many people would abandon Ramadhan because it is too hard to go for that long with out food or drink? And how many people would commit zina because they feel that it is too hard to remain chaste?
Thats different. There are no opinions on that, that is a must.

Niqaab however, is not defined as obligatory anywhere. And don't give me the Qur'aan Ayah of Surah Nur, coz scholars have different opinions about that.

EDIT: We are going off topic. If you want to continue this discussion, then please PM me.
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Malaikah
01-24-2008, 01:05 PM
That is my point exactly! That scholar has studied the evidence and has come to the conclusion that niqaab is compulsory! We have no right at all to call him extreme for doing so!

And where did I even say anything about not wearing niqaab being outside the bounds of shariah?
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------
01-24-2008, 01:09 PM
:salamext:

That is my point exactly! That scholar has studied the evidence and has come to the conclusion that niqaab is compulsory! We have no right at all to call him extreme for doing so!
We aren't calling him 'extreme'. We are just saying that there are different scholars that we can follow, who have based their opinions on the Qur'aan and Sunnah. For today's society.

E.g. Lets says some scholar says that women cant go out of their house at all because in the Prophet (SAW) time they couldn't. What if someone is an only child, and her parents are old and can't work? Does that mean she can't go to work?
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Malaikah
01-24-2008, 01:31 PM
:sl:

Sister I'm not here to argue for the sake of arguing. I'm just trying to get what I consider to be a correct point across.

Your exact words were:

Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
Regarding Islamqa, some of their fatwas make sense, but others seem to go to the extreme. Allaahu Aalim.
Your use of the word extreme is what I am replying to.

We are just saying that there are different scholars that we can follow, who have based their opinions on the Qur'aan and Sunnah. For today's society.
I never said you can't do that- all I'm saying is that we should respect the fact that others are allowed to follow different opinions than us - including stricter opinions and that we have no right to call them extreme for doing so.

:)
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------
01-24-2008, 01:45 PM
:salamext:

You follow the scholar which u think is correct and other people follow theirs. (who have, of course, derived their opinion from the Qur'aan and Sunnah). Khalaas.

And the above smiley makes me feel like ur looking down on me, which I sincerely hope ur not.
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Malaikah
01-24-2008, 02:01 PM
:sl:

I don't know why, but so far you've misunderstood everything I've said (including an innocent smiley face!)... I don't think I can explain my position any clearer than I have done.

Let's just leave it that.
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Sami
01-24-2008, 02:06 PM
i think opposite gender teaching can be of no harm as long as it is done within limits! ie just teaching and no idle chit chat and stuff,
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01-24-2008, 02:11 PM
:salamext:

^ Jazaak Allaah Khayr brother.
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AvarAllahNoor
01-24-2008, 02:21 PM
Do you not have a collective Islamic baord who passes Islamic law which is obeyed by Muslims worldwide? Because it seems you have so many 'Scholars' with personal opinions, which seem to cause conflict amongst Muslims.
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AvarAllahNoor
01-25-2008, 12:08 AM
Is that a no then?
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Roasted Cashew
01-25-2008, 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Do you not have a collective Islamic baord who passes Islamic law which is obeyed by Muslims worldwide? Because it seems you have so many 'Scholars' with personal opinions, which seem to cause conflict amongst Muslims.
Islamic law is known as the Shari'ah. The Shari'ah is based on the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and those who ascribe to different interpretations of the law pray in the same mosques with no enmity between them. In mainstream Sunni Islam, there are four School of Laws(mazhab).

1.Hanafi School (founded by Abu Hanifa) - Muslims of Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, ie (Central Asia) and Turkey follow this school.

2.Maliki School (founded by Malik ibn Anas) - The Maliki legal school is the branch of Sunni that dominates in nearly all of Africa, except Egypt, the 'Horn' area and the East Coast countries.

3.Shafi'i School (founded by Muhammad ibn Idris ash-Shafi`i) - Present Muslims in Indonesia, Lower Egypt, Malaysia, and Yemen follow this school.

4.Hanbali School (founded by Ahmad bin Hanbal) - This school of law is followed primarily in the Arabian Peninsula.

These four schools are somewhat different from each other, but Sunni Muslims generally consider them all equally valid. There are other Sunni schools of law, although many are followed by only small numbers of people and are relatively unknown due to the popularity of the four major schools; also many have died out or were not sufficiently recorded by their followers to survive.

Interpreting the Shari'ah to derive specific rulings (such as how to pray) is known as fiqh, which literally means understanding. A madhhab is a particular tradition of interpreting fiqh. These schools focus on specific evidence (Shafi'i and Hanbali) or general principles (Hanafi and Maliki) derived from specific evidences. The schools were started by eminent Muslim scholars in the first four centuries of Islam. As these schools represent clearly spelled out methodologies for interpreting the Shari'ah, there has been little change in the methodology per se. However, as the social and economic environment changes, new fiqh rulings are being made. For example, when tobacco appeared it was declared as 'disliked' because of its smell. When medical information showed that smoking was dangerous, that ruling was changed to 'forbidden'. Current fiqh issues include things like downloading pirated software and cloning. The consensus is that the Shari'ah does not change but fiqh rulings change all the time.

A madhhab is not to be confused with a religious sect. There may be scholars representing all four madhhabs living in larger Muslim communities, and it is up to those who consult them to decide which school they prefer.

Many Sunnis advocate that a Muslim should choose a single madhhab and follow it in all matters. However, rulings from another madhhab are considered acceptable as dispensations (rukhsa) in exceptional circumstances. Some Sunnis however do not follow any madhhab, indeed some Salafis reject strict adherence to any particular school of thought, preferring to use the Qur'an and the sunnah alone as the primary sources of Islamic law.
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AvarAllahNoor
01-25-2008, 12:39 AM
I Personally I think as you see it as the word of God, then to use the Qur'an and the sunnah alone as the primary sources of Islamic law. Then people won't be confused. As the above is extremely confusing, for non-muslims, so how can muslims understand it.
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Malaikah
01-25-2008, 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I Personally I think as you see it as the word of God, then to use the Qur'an and the sunnah alone as the primary sources of Islamic law. Then people won't be confused. As the above is extremely confusing, for non-muslims, so how can muslims understand it.
The Quran and sunnah are the primary sources of Islamic law!

The four madh-habds aren't some kind of other source, they simply different approaches to deriving rulings based n the evidence from the Quran and sunnah.
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adeeb
01-25-2008, 02:15 AM
:uuh:

i dont think it would be a problem..

hope the teacher is good muslim, and know the rules toward muslima...

male and female both have the right to get education...

:peace:
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snakelegs
01-25-2008, 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Sister I'm not here to argue for the sake of arguing. I'm just trying to get what I consider to be a correct point across.

Your exact words were:



Your use of the word extreme is what I am replying to.



I never said you can't do that- all I'm saying is that we should respect the fact that others are allowed to follow different opinions than us - including stricter opinions and that we have no right to call them extreme for doing so.

:)
of course, going by your nick, you are slightly biased. :giggling:
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islamirama
01-25-2008, 05:58 AM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Selam aleykum,

Brother islamirama, I must say, those links kinda confused me and I gotta point out some things. So here are some links I recommend you to read:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503547498

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503545080

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...15ed3a9a01c69a
Wa'alaikum as'salaam,

thank you for the reply however, here's my take on the matter.

I dont' trust islamonline as they don't have a strong knowledge based backing to for their answers and if i'm not mistaken, they are not 100% authentic in their info.

As for askimam, i don't even bother wasting my time with that site. The guy just gives his short answer and you just have to take it at face value.

I like islamqa because the sheikh gives the answer with quranic and hadith proof to back it up. And he also includes fatwas from other scholars on the matter. So over all he give a much more comprehensive answer than the sites you have listed.

lastly, i don't know is sitting behind those sites nor do i know the qualifications. This shiekh howerver has studied under shiekh uthaymneen, bin baaz and many other well known scholars of our time.


Firstly this piece from link one:

I find this statement to almost force a woman to think 'further education' is not necessary, 'cause it's totally haram if there's any male there. Some people don't have a choice, there are no just female schools, for example here where I live. Of course if there is, one should consider why you don't attend it, as it's way better to go there Islamically thinking.. Is it money that stops you? Or simply don't wanting to go? The intention plays a big role here.

In this time of life, people cannot go uneducated or their lives will be very hard, uneccessary hard, especially for a woman who is not really suited to do physically demanding jobs like males can do, and I'm thinking
What you think of this statement is because of your lack of islamic knowledge. Islam encourages education so much that it is made obligatory on Muslims to seek knowledge, both men and women. But at the same time Islam has set guidelines and limits in everything, including education, for us to adhere to. The person asked what is the Islamic stand on guy teaching female students, well the Islamic stand is just that what i've posted.

Now what about people like you who have no girls only school available and what not. Islamically you can't touch a non-mahram, but medically you have given some permission. See first you find a doctor of same gender, but if you can't and you need medical attention then out of due necessity, Islam allows you to be treated by opposite gender. Now i'm not saying you can go to mixed gender school out of due necessity, but i'm also not saying that you can sit home and remain uneducated. Everyone's situation is different.

Also, like you said. It's hard to be uneducated and get far much in life in this day and age. There are sisters who do university from home, do islamic studies from home. You can get any degree of secular education from online universities, you can get islamic degrees from online as well. As for younger grades, many people are homeschooling their kids. Many americans are doing that these days as well because of the indecent exposer their kids can get from going to school. So yea the opportunities are there and more so today then before to even do your whole education from K-university.
And then in the second link it said the following:

I beg you pardon, but the majority of scholars do not say niqaab, or covering the whole face + eyes, as obligatory, and that covering the hair and body with loose clothing which does not sexually attract, is the full hijab. Face and hands can be visible.
You can beg my pardon all you want, but can you please bring proof of these "majority scholars" that say niqaab is not obligatory? Many scholars will say that it is obligatory based on plenty of evidence from Sunnah. ( here's one - Niqab ) And many scholars will not say its obligatory but will say its good/better if they do it.

I highly recommend you (and everyone else here) watch the 3 part video below. It is a different sheikh talking on the issue of niqaab. I very highly recommend listening to part 3 for the hijabis only as it talks about the proper hijab compared the hijabi fashion "models" we see today.

The Niqab -
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/v/RZe44SX0EBo&rel=1
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/v/7_jpPYcX60Q&rel=1
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/v/i-lW7Qb3mQM&rel=1

Now I'm not saying that everyone has to do niqaab or they are going to hell. Everyone is at different level of emaan in their life and every one will do as much as they have courage to do. I"m strictly speaking of Islamically what is to be covered and how much and what not.

As for those who made remarks of "harshness" and "strict", you (bros & sis) should think twice before uttering such statments. Many things are direct command from Allah and His Messenger. And HE has said in the Quran those who obey the Messenger HAS obeyed Allah. And the Messenger has left us an example of what true Islam is and how to follow it. These "harsh" scholars have stated only the hadeeth showing what was done in those days and what Islam says. If that is too harsh for you, perhaps you need to reassess your life and knowledge and see on what basis are you passing such a judgment on scholars and on islamic rulings.

There are people who say shaking hands it ok. How would you like it if i struck a nail in your head with a hammer? would that hurt? i bet it'll hurt like hell! but guess what, the Prophet (saws) said it is BETTER that you be stuck in the head with a nail THEN to touch a palm of a woman. And those who do, they will have a hot burning coal placed in their hand. And the fire of hell is 70 times stronger than the fire of this duniya. So you tell me, is islam harsh or are these people weak in practice?
Reply

Malaikah
01-25-2008, 06:35 AM
:sl:

islamirama, good post.:peace:

Originally Posted by snakelegs
of course, going by your nick, you are slightly biased. :giggling:
LOL! An extremophile is actually a type of micro-organism that lives in extreme places (very hot, very cold, low oxygen, etc).:coolious:
Reply

snakelegs
01-25-2008, 06:41 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

LOL! An extremophile is actually a type of micro-organism that lives in extreme places (very hot, very cold, low oxygen, etc).:coolious:

interesting - and here i always thought.....it sort of suited you, you know? :D
now i know why you're swimming in yellowstone too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
01-25-2008, 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by sur
For God sake, Islam is so easy & practical religion, don't make it impracticle one.:-

Fiqh-us-Sunnah: Supererogatory Prayer. Fiqh 2.153.
Ibn Hajar writes in Fath al-Bari, "Ibn as-Siraj related from Abu az-Zinad on the authority of 'Urwah from 'Aishah that the Prophet said that day: 'Let the Jews of Medinah know that our religion is spacious [and has room for relaxation] and I have been sent with an easy and straight forward religion. "'
Islam of Prophet Muhammad(saw) is EASY religion while “talibanised” ppl like u r making it impossible-to-follow religion.



Lot of women used to come to Prophet to ask Qs. They were like female students.

Prophet used to answer them(teach them) like a male teacher.


So do we still need a fatwa on this issue???!!!
.
.
.
:sl:
just a side thing, there are actually mistakes made in fiqh us-sunnah. check this out, ishallah.
:sl:
Reply

Roasted Cashew
01-25-2008, 08:44 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

islamirama, good post.:peace:
islamirama: The questions remains unanswered. So, what is the answer. YES or NO. I mean can you just write it down here and not giving me all the links. Thanks though.
Reply

------
01-25-2008, 09:11 AM
:salamext:

^ Yes. :-\
Reply

Malaikah
01-25-2008, 09:12 AM
:sl:

Do you mean the answer to the question about a man teaching a class of women? I'm sure you will find that everyone has already clarified that it is fine.:)
Reply

M H Kahn
01-25-2008, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
I think the same way but some say that only female teachers should teach female students and vice versa. Can someone proof that this is a wrong statement.
:sl:
Allah's messengers were the greatest teachers, but none of them was a female. If a male teacher should not teach females, then how have all the male messengers taught the whole mankind of males and females? Allah did not send any female messengers to teach His unity to the females.:statisfie
Reply

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01-25-2008, 09:56 AM
edit
Reply

islamirama
01-25-2008, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
islamirama: The questions remains unanswered. So, what is the answer. YES or NO. I mean can you just write it down here and not giving me all the links. Thanks though.
The links i gave had clear enough answer in it.

Women should teach female students and men should teach male students. If a male teaches female students then proper islamic guidelines must be followered as stated previously.

Boys and girls schools should be separate as that is the Islamic way, and seeing you are in malaysia, it should not be hard to find those. But if one does go to a mixed school instead, the very least they can do is adhere to proper Islamic guidelines in dealing with other gender, like these ones:

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=1497&ln=eng

Allahu Alim...
Reply

------
01-26-2008, 12:19 PM
:salamext:

^ Yeh but sometimes you don't have that facility!!
Reply

sur
01-26-2008, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by hmmm5
Pls, I'm not a Taliban nor "talibanized". I was asking this question after reading an article in TIME Magazine about female education in Afghanistan. What caught my attention is that some parents won't allow their female children to go to school because the teachers or male. BUT the teachers are male ONLY because there is shortage of female teachers. I think these parents need to be thought Islam first before they ruin their children's life.
I'm sorry for using this word. I tried to edit it immediately but u caught it before that.
Reply

thirdwatch512
01-26-2008, 08:53 PM
Did Muhammad not make a separate day to teach the women?

Did men not come to Aisha and ask her questions!

Does early Islam not have a GREAT record of having female scholars in early times?!!
Reply

Al-Zaara
01-27-2008, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah

There is no need to be so defensive. The shaykh was asked his opinion and he gave it. He has every right to follow the opinion that niqaab is compulsory.
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM

^ She was not being 'defensive', she was merely stating other scholars opinions on the matter.
JazakiAllah kheyr sister AhLÄÄM.


Originally Posted by islamirama

What you think of this statement is because of your lack of islamic knowledge. Islam encourages education so much that it is made obligatory on Muslims to seek knowledge, both men and women. But at the same time Islam has set guidelines and limits in everything, including education, for us to adhere to.
Selam aleykum we rahmetallahu,

I definitely lack of Islamic knowledge, inshaAllah it will increase in time, but that what you just said was my main point with that post. I've been around islamQA for long, and that I as a Muslim could get slightly confused, makes me not even wanna think what others with less knowledge than I might get thinking after reading that.

Someone said it, that you have to realize that some rulings are more or less pointed at societies with Muslim majority.

Now i'm not saying you can go to mixed gender school out of due necessity, but i'm also not saying that you can sit home and remain uneducated. Everyone's situation is different.
And that was exactly my point, that everyone's situation is different and therefor much often need to talk with a learned one about it specifically ('cause that's the best option!).

You can beg my pardon all you want, but can you please bring proof of these "majority scholars" that say niqaab is not obligatory? Many scholars will say that it is obligatory based on plenty of evidence from Sunnah. ( here's one - Niqab ) And many scholars will not say its obligatory but will say its good/better if they do it.
Many do say indeed, that it is recommended. There is also plenty of evidence that it is not obligatory. So it brings us to what sister Malaikah so hard tried to explain, it is the scholar''s own opinion that he has chosen to take (after lots of studying of course!) and it happens to be that there are many who disagree and take another stance on that matter. With this said, I don't believe I have to start posting evidences on 'why niqaab isn't obligatory'.


Selam aleykum
Reply

islamirama
01-27-2008, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Al-Zaara
Many do say indeed, that it is recommended.


Selam aleykum
Muslims and Muslimahs across the world have been in "hot debate" for centuries, over the issue of whether or not covering the face is obligatory upon a Muslimah. Those who argue that it is not required, point to the use of the word khimar in the Qur'an, and explain that today's modern khimar does not cover the face, and argue that khimar has never referred to the covering of the face, but only to that of the hair, neck, and bosoms. While one cannot deny the support of Hadith that indicate that the Prophet's wives wore khimar, one must realize that they also covered their faces at all times in the presence of non-mahram men.

The group of scholars agree that it is a highly recommended act to cover the face. The scholars also agree that a woman must cover her adornment, yet some scholars argue that this does not include the face.


The following Fatawa is from Sheikh Ibn Uthaimin:

"The Islamic hijab is for the women to cover everything that is forbidden for her to expose. That is, she covers everything that she must cover.
"The first of those bodily parts that she must cover is her face. It is the source of temptation and the source of people desiring her. Therefore, the woman must cover her face in front of those men that are not Mahram (i.e. father, huband, etc.).

"As for those who claim that Islamic hijab is to cover the head, shoulders, back, feet, shin and forearms while allowing her to uncover her face and hands, this is a very amazing claim. This is because it is well-known that the source of temptation and looking is the face. How can one say that the Shariah does no allow the exposure of the foot of the woman while it allows her to uncover her face?

"It is not possible that there could be in the Esteemed, Wise and Noble Shariah a contradiction. Yet everyone knows that the temptation from uncovering the face is much greater than the temptation that results from the uncovering of the feet. Everyone also knows that the most sought after aspect of the woman for men is the face. If you told a prospective groom that a woman’s face is ugly but her feet are beautiful, he would not propose to such a woman.

"However, if you told him that her face was beautiful but her hands, palms, or shins were less than beautiful, he would still propose to her. From this one can conclude that the face is the first thing that must be covered.
"There are also evidences from the Book of Allah (SWT) and the Sunnah of our Prophet (SAW). There are also statements from the Companions, the leading Imams and the great scholars of Islam that indicate that it is obligatory for the woman to cover all of her body in the presence of non-Mahram men. This obviously indicates that it is obligatory upon the woman to cover her face in front of such men."

There is also plenty of evidence that it is not obligatory.

The Ulamah who are of the opinion that it is permissible to look at the face and hands of a strange woman (who is not mahrrum) (niqab is not obligatory) say so mainly for the following reasons.


The hadeeth of Ayeshah (Radhiallaahu Ánha) when Asmaa (Radhiallaahu Ánha) the daughter of Abu Bakr came to the Rasulullaah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asmaa! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands. But this hadeeth is WEAK because of 2 main weaknesses.
  1. There is no link between Ayeshah (Radhiallaahu Ánha) and Khalid bin Dareek, who narrated the hadith from her. And in every chain of narrators Khalid bin Dareek is mentioned.
  2. In the chain of narrators Sa'eed bin Basheer appears, who is known by most of the Muhaditheen as being a weak narrator.
This has been mentioned by Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Rahimahullah), An-Nasai (Rahimahullah), Ibn Madeeni (Rahimahullah) and Ibn Ma'een (Rahimahullah). This is also why Imaam Bukhari (Rahimahullah) and Muslim (Rahimahullah) did not except this hadeeth to be in their books. (From Shaikh Ibn Uthaymeen in the book "Hijaab" pages # 17 and 18.)

We also have to see that the Muhadith Abu Dawood when he quoted this hadeeth put with it that it is Mursal (with a broken chain that does not lead up to the Sahabah).

(From The Book "Hijaab wa Safur" under the fatwaa of Shaikh Abdul Aziz Bin Bazz on Page #61. Also stated as being weak by Shaikh Nasiruddeen Al-Albaani in his Daeef Sunan Abu Dawud in Kitab-ul-Libas under hadeeth number 4092 (which is the original hadeeth number.)

An other thing that shows the weakness of this hadith is that after the ayah for hijab (Surah Al-Ahzaab – Verse #59) was revealed then the women of Sahaba wore a complete veil and covered the faces and hands. This includes Asmaa (Radhiallaahu Ánha) the daughter of Abu Bakr, who is supposed to have narrated this hadeeth. Asmaa (Radhiallaahu Ánha) covered herself completely including the face, this has been narrated in authentic hadeeth in Imaam Malik's "MUWATTA Book 20 Hadeeth # 20.5.16."




So it brings us to what sister Malaikah so hard tried to explain, it is the scholar''s own opinion that he has chosen to take (after lots of studying of course!)

Firstly scholars are inheritors of the prophet since prophet's leave behind nothing but knowledge. So their "own" opinions are not personal opinions but rather onces based on their study and understanding of the Quran and sunnah.

Even then, We don't even need scholarly opinion on this matter since its so simple. Just look at the hadith that are sound, unless someone lacks common sense or deny these ahadith, it is very apparent where Islam stands on this matter.


Narrated 'Aisha (RA) who said, "The riders would pass us while we were with the Messenger of Allah ). When they got close to us, we would draw our outer cloak from our heads over our faces. When they passed by, we would uncover our faces."

Hadith - Bukhari 6:282 'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."



Hadith - Abu Dawud, Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin
When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments.

The lower half of the hijab is a garment that does not show the woman's figure. Jeans and certain obvious garments do not meet this requirement.

Hadith - Abu Dawud, Narrated Dihyah ibn Khalifah al-Kalbi
The Apostle of Allah was brought some pieces of fine Egyptian linen and he gave me one and said: Divide it into two; cut one of the pieces into a shirt and give the other to your wife for veil. Then when he turned away, he said: And order your wife to wear a garment below it and not show her figure.
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------
01-28-2008, 09:48 AM
:salamext:

I think this thread has served its purpose.

Just heated debates will get us nowhere.

:threadclo
Reply

*Marwah
01-28-2008, 10:22 AM
:sl: sister
i heard from people that it is oright him to teach female onless they dont tuch u:)
:w::thankyou:
Reply

M H Kahn
01-31-2008, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by *Marwah
:sl: sister
i heard from people that it is oright him to teach female onless they dont tuch u:)
:w::thankyou:
Why should a touch a female student? Teaching in a decent way must be permissible.
Reply

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