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radwan21
01-24-2008, 12:08 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7204029.stm


Palestinians blow up border wall

Rafah has been mainly shut since June at Israel's insistence

Enlarge Image
Hundreds of Palestinians have surged into Egypt from the Gaza Strip after masked militants blew several holes in a border wall.

The Gazans rushed to buy food, fuel and other supplies that have become scarce in Gaza because of an Israeli blockade.

The radical Hamas movement which controls Gaza has repeatedly appealed to Egypt to open its border to relieve the siege.

Egyptian border guards and Hamas police took no action against the border raid.

Earlier on Wednesday, a Hamas militant was killed during an exchange of fire near Gaza's border with Israel, Palestinian officials said.

Women in the firing line

Both incidents came a day after 60 women were injured by gunfire when Egyptian police broke up a protest against the siege at the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt.

The police had fired into the air and used water cannon to drive back Palestinian women who tried to surge across the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and Gaza.

Hundreds of Palestinians had demanded the crossing be reopened to allow the passage of vital supplies made scarce by the blockade.

On Tuesday, Israel eased its four-day Gaza lockdown by allowing fuel and medicine deliveries.

But it has indicated restrictions may be re-imposed if rocket attacks continue.

In New York on Tuesday, Israeli and Palestinian envoys had clashed at the United Nations Security Council during a debate on Israel's blockade.

The Palestinian UN observer accused Israel of fuelling violence, while the Israeli envoy said his country had to protect its people from rocket attacks.

The council was considering a call for Israel to allow humanitarian aid to enter Gaza freely.

Talks adjourned

Tuesday's day-long council debate had been requested by Arab and Islamic states amid a growing international outcry at what the European Union termed the "collective punishment" of Gaza's 1.5m residents.


Map

Gaza's rocket threat to Israel
'Wartime' on Israeli border
Gaza diary: Day One

Palestinian UN observer Riyad Mansour said the council "must demand that Israel, the occupying power, immediately cease its collective punishment of the Palestinian people".

But Israeli representative Gilad Cohen denied that Israel was violating international law.

"It is the duty of all states to ensure the right to life and safety of its people, especially from vicious acts of violence and terrorism," he said, adding that Israel would "ensure the humanitarian welfare" of Gaza.

Israel imposed its blockade last week in response to rocket attacks from Gaza, and the UN had warned that food aid to about 860,000 Gazans could be halted within days as a result.
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cihad
01-25-2008, 02:50 PM
yaaay!!!
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cihad
01-25-2008, 02:50 PM
Alhamdulillah!
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krypton6
01-25-2008, 03:00 PM
So is it officially over?
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The_Prince
01-25-2008, 04:40 PM
why cant they just keep it open?

sheesh what a disgrace the Muslim world has become, we should always be helping each other FREELY, we dont have to blow a wall up and stuff. can you imagine what the prophet and his companions would be doing in such a situation?

its also good for the corrupt egyption goverment, it will give them some respite, and it is also good for the econamy in sinia..........so if they were smart they would fix this border and normalize it and make it easy to go in and out, like the USA-CANADA border.
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Woodrow
01-25-2008, 05:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
why cant they just keep it open?

sheesh what a disgrace the Muslim world has become, we should always be helping each other FREELY, we dont have to blow a wall up and stuff. can you imagine what the prophet and his companions would be doing in such a situation?

its also good for the corrupt egyption goverment, it will give them some respite, and it is also good for the econamy in sinia..........so if they were smart they would fix this border and normalize it and make it easy to go in and out, like the USA-CANADA border.
:sl:

Agreed. Although I disagree with the Israel/Gaza blockade I can understand the logic behind it. But an Egypt/Gaza blockade makes no sense to me.
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MTAFFI
01-25-2008, 05:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
:sl:

Agreed. Although I disagree with the Israel/Gaza blockade I can understand the logic behind it. But an Egypt/Gaza blockade makes no sense to me.
I think they do it for fear that hamas or other palestinians may attempt to fire on Israel from their territory. Not to say they would just giving a reason
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krypton6
01-25-2008, 09:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
I think they do it for fear that hamas or other palestinians may attempt to fire on Israel from their territory. Not to say they would just giving a reason
They chained around the city that the Palestinians were gathering inside and buying from, so the Palestinians could not fire from Egypt, nor could they fire missiles from a city filled with swarms of families.
It is illogical to think that Hamas would have nothing better to do than to fire missiles from Egypt knowing that doing so would cut off their only help.

This is a greate example for the dictatorship that has bin spread in the middle east by Britain and France but later continued by America.

Ask all muslims in the middle east, they all agree with Hamas, but it is only the american allied and signed dictators who are against the Palestinian freedom fighting for that is what they have to believe to be able to continue their dictatorship without being called a terrorist, and they being the useless betraying cowards that they, chose to betray their own **** people.
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MTAFFI
01-25-2008, 09:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
They chained around the city that the Palestinians were gathering inside and buying from, so the Palestinians could not fire from Egypt, nor could they fire missiles from a city filled with swarms of families.
It is illogical to think that Hamas would have nothing better to do than to fire missiles from Egypt knowing that doing so would cut off their only help.
To me it seems illogical to just randomly fire rockets from anywhere, whether it be Palestine or Egypt.. Logically what does it accomplish? Are they going to bring Israel down with mortar attacks? Logically the only solution is a two state solution and a peace agreement, after over 40 years of violence I dont see it as logical to continue fighting


format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
This is a greate example for the dictatorship that has bin spread in the middle east by Britain and France but later continued by America.

Ask all arabs in the middle east, they all agree with Hamas, but it is only the american allied and signed dictators who are against the Palestinian freedom fighting.
I agree that many Arabs agree with Hamas, I agree that there are some governments in the ME that have friendly ties with the US, but to point the finger and say that Hamas is in the state it is because of anyone but themselves, to me isnt rational. They choose to fight, they choose to die, they make decisions knowing the reprucussion could be a cut off of supply or an airstike. To keep fighting for this tiny parcel of land that they have left is pointless, there is plenty of good land in the middle east, let the Israelis have it, move to an Arab country and when the time is right, if it still means as much to them, try and take it back. Either that or broker a peace deal that will at least allow them to build up some infrastructure and economy, spare the people at least a small period of peace time so they can gather their thoughts and make some rational decisions. It is the only way the Palestinians will come out on top of this situation. Look at how much they have lost already, it is one thing to fight with honor for your country and homeland, it is a whole other to lose a war and continue fighting afterwards for 40 years only to lose much much much more than if you had just given up when the white flag was waved the first time. I pray for peace in this region of the world
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Trumble
01-25-2008, 10:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Agreed. Although I disagree with the Israel/Gaza blockade I can understand the logic behind it. But an Egypt/Gaza blockade makes no sense to me.
It makes perfect sense. Like several other Arab countries before them the Egyptians are determined to keep Palestinian refugees, economic migrants and especially 'freedom fighters' in territory other than their own. Surely nobody is niave enough to believe that all of them are just making a quick trip to the supermarket and then going back to Gaza?
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Fishman
01-25-2008, 10:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
To me it seems illogical to just randomly fire rockets from anywhere, whether it be Palestine or Egypt.. Logically what does it accomplish? Are they going to bring Israel down with mortar attacks?
:sl:
I know. It is stupid, there are no strategic reasons to just bombard randomly like that. The Blitz proved that. Random bombing of civilians only makes them more angry with you and more willing to fight back, rather than demoralising them.

Logically the only solution is a two state solution and a peace agreement, after over 40 years of violence I dont see it as logical to continue fighting
I think that there should be a variation of the two-state agreement. Palestine and southern Israel should go to Jordan, Gaza should go to Egypt, Jerusalem should be run by some kind of tri-faith council, and northern Israel should stay as Israel. Jewish people need a sactuary to go to to be safe from persecution.
:w:
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جوري
01-25-2008, 10:43 PM
Breaking out
As ordinary Palestinians force their way into Egypt from besieged Gaza, the Israeli-instigated humanitarian and political crisis is carried with them


Thousands of Palestinians crossed the Rafah border on foot into Egypt, as a mule-powered cart transports goods into Gaza, after militants exploded the wall between the Strip and Egypt, in Rafah, Wednesday. Gazans trapped in what is considered the "world's largest concentration camp" by a tight Israeli blockade poured into Egypt to buy food, fuel and other supplies that have become scarce in Gaza. The Gazans have kith and kin in Rafah, Egypt. Egyptian border guards and Hamas police took no action as Palestinians hurried over the border and returned with bags of food, boxes of cigarettes and plastic bottles of fuel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Qualified as a "war crime" by Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa and illegal "collective punishment" by the European Union and international agencies, the humanitarian and political crisis created by Israel's five-day hermetic seal on Gaza is taking a toll not only on the 1.5 million inhabitants of the impoverished coastal strip. Damaged "beyond repair", according to several Palestinians speaking to Al-Ahram Weekly from Rafah, is the image of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who is being widely blamed for "turning a blind eye to the misery of his own people in Gaza" while continuing to engage in talks with Israel on peace.

Speaking to the Weekly in Gaza earlier this week, Selim Hazzaa lashed out at Abbas for keeping channels of communication open with Israel while his nine-year-old daughter Yasmine cannot enter Egypt for cancer treatment because of the Israeli blockade. "What will Abbas tell me and my wife when Yasmine dies as he courts the embrace of [Israeli Prime Minister Ehud] Olmert, the man who passed a death sentence on my daughter by denying her treatment?"

In Damascus Wednesday, a wide assembly of Palestinian political factions called on Abbas to end the "ridiculous" negotiations he has insisted must continue with the Israelis. The impressive gathering, including popular Palestinian resistance leaders Khaled Meshaal of Hamas and Ramadan Shallah of Islamic Jihad, sent a clear message of alarm to Abbas. "I want to ask our brothers in Ramallah [Abbas's headquarters], what exactly are you waiting for?" said Shallah. According to Meshaal, while the Palestinian Authority (PA) is talking to the Israelis, Palestinians in Gaza, which he qualified as "the biggest prison in history", are "being massacred".

Even supporters of Abbas say they are uncomfortable. Palestinian writer Hani Al-Masri says the president needs to halt negotiations immediately. "It doesn't make sense for negotiations to continue while Israel is changing facts on the ground and undermining the chances for a just and acceptable solution," he told the Weekly.

Also gravely compromised is the image of Arab capitals. The Arab League resolution adopted Monday afternoon to denounce the Israeli siege and call for prompt action by concerned political and humanitarian agencies did not impress the people of Gaza. Several Palestinians contacted by the Weekly castigated the League and Arab states for their failure to take any serious action against Israel. Some saw the call for the international community and the UN Security Council to act as humiliating, especially in view of the council's failure to condemn Israel. According to Meshaal, if the Arab League really wanted, it could force an end to the Israeli siege.

"We are being massacred and nobody is saying anything. They are all scared of Israel and the US, without exception," commented one Palestinian who crossed the Egypt-Rafah border Wednesday in the wake of a series of explosions that broke through the border's separating wall, allowing a massive influx of as many as 200,000 Palestinians to exit Gaza. The breakthrough was second such attempt by Palestinians, who have been appealing for Egypt to open its border unilaterally -- without the otherwise required consent of Israel and the European Union in its monitoring capacity. The first attempt Tuesday morning by thousands of Gazan women was repelled by Egyptian security water canons.

Egyptian officials say they approached "concerned international bodies" to discuss a limited opening of the Rafah crossing "strictly" for humanitarian reasons, but that their approach was not well received. Palestinians are not impressed. "Why wouldn't [the Egyptians] allow this crossing to open immediately when the [Israelis] blocked Gaza and deprived us of electricity? Why did we have to storm in? Do we have to be humiliated by the Israelis, the world, and even by our Arab brethren?" one asked.

Wednesday, the border city of Rafah and its neighbouring city of Arish were inundated with Palestinians who managed to pass the border. Hours later, a spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry berated Egypt for allowing the Palestinians to exit Gaza. Israel said it would deny Gaza emergency fuel supplies it had earlier promised. But according to Egyptian security sources onsite, when the protesters broke through at dawn Wednesday there was no way that Egyptian security would repel them with armed force. "It was simply out of the question," commented one security source.

On Tuesday night, Egyptian security forces denied the Weekly access to Arish and Rafah. The whole zone was tightly cordoned off by heavy security. "It is unbelievable. There are Palestinians everywhere. They are pushing and shoving to buy food, medicines, cement and fuel. The stores are practically emptied; even that most of the merchants abused the situation by doubling and tripling prices," commented one Arish resident who spoke to the Weekly by phone. "Now there is a shortage of commodities. We are expecting this to worsen if massive supplies are not immediately sent to Arish and Rafah," she added.

Wednesday, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak told reporters that at dawn he ordered Egyptian security forces stationed in Rafah to allow Palestinian crowds to enter Egyptian territory and "allow them to buy their basic needs and go back to Gaza -- as long as they are not carrying arms or anything illegal". Eyewitnesses in Rafah and Arish tell the Weekly that many Palestinians are doing exactly that. "Some keep coming and going back to carry more commodities. They carry so much. It looks horrible," commented one Arish resident. According to some accounts, hundreds if not thousands of Palestinians are renting flats -- sometimes shared -- to stay in Arish for an indefinite period.

Egyptian official sources reveal that there has been US and Israeli protests over the breach of the Rafah crossing. However, they say that Cairo is not in a position to force any Palestinian to return. Egypt, they acknowledge, already has a bad image with the citizens of Gaza and their political leadership, Hamas. Informed sources tell the Weekly that Hamas leaders were not particularly receptive to appeals made by Cairo demanding Hamas take control of the situation, avoid any "explosion", and give Egypt time to use its "good offices" with the Israelis, Americans and others to bring an end to the siege. According to Meshaal in Damascus Wednesday, Egypt should reach a new border agreement with Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. Especially in view of the current humanitarian crisis, there is nothing sacred in the border agreement struck with Israel.

While President Mubarak blamed Hamas, which is firing rockets at Israel, for giving Israel pretext to initiate its siege on Gaza, sources suggest that Cairo is planning on more intensive communication with Hamas, to "better manage the status-quo". According to one source, "we are not going to give any legitimacy to the Hamas takeover of power in Gaza, but we have to talk to Hamas on ways of handling current and possible future problems." He added that any Egypt-Hamas dialogue would also examine prospects of facilitating national reconciliation talks between Hamas and Fatah in Palestine.

Indeed, the tightening of the Gaza blockade has created immense public pressure on both Hamas and President Abbas to resolve their differences. Mahmoud Al-Zahhar, a senior Hamas official, was uncharacteristically reconciliatory when he talked to reporters Monday. Hamas, he said, was willing to "go to any lengths" to hold a successful dialogue with Fatah. Young leaders in both movements are now trying to patch up things. A National Committee for Dialogue and Reconciliation has just been formed in Gaza. Among its members is Ghazi Hamad, former spokesman for the Ismail Haniyeh government, and Faysal Abu Shahla, a prominent Fatah representative. Also participating are academics and civil society activists.

Meanwhile, the image problem Cairo has to worry about goes beyond Palestinian quarters. A few hundred demonstrators took to Tahrir Square Wednesday and lambasted the Egyptian government for failing to lend urgent support to Palestinians under Israeli siege. "What a shame! We should be ashamed of ourselves for failing to reach out to our Palestinian brethren. This government should be ashamed for failing to reflect the true leadership of Egypt!" shouted Nasserist member of the Egyptian parliament Hamdeen Sabahi. "Why do we have to worry about our relations with Israel more than the lives of innocent Palestinian men and women who are being killed by the Israelis?" he asked.

Sabahi and other protesters called for the immediate expulsion of Israel's ambassador in Egypt. Ahead of and in the wake of these demonstrations, scores of opposition figures -- mostly from the Muslim Brotherhood -- have been arrested and detained.

As the crisis unfolds, Israeli calculations, despite the military onslaught and the reduction of rockets fired from Gaza at Sedrat, also appear misjudged. According to Israeli media, expectations that the siege on Gaza would prompt a popular revolt against Hamas stand shattered. Hamas appears, indeed, to be enjoying even more support than earlier. Palestinians who entered Rafah at dawn Wednesday chanted pro-Hamas slogans. In Damascus, all Palestinian factions gathered -- of both Islamist and non-Islamist platforms -- expressed solidarity with Hamas. And in Cairo, Egyptian protesters were also vocal in their support of Hamas. While some official Arab quarters are seeking to blame the Palestinian resistance for the crisis, popular sentiment is going the other way. As affirmed by Abdul-Sattar Qassem, a professor of political science at An-Najah University in Nablus, "the Palestinian people have the right to engage in all forms of resistance to the occupation."

Arab League Secretary-General Moussa appeared to recognise that popular sentiment, sending a warning to Arab capitals. "The Annapolis process is being driven to the abyss by Israeli aggression and by the silence of the world in the face of such aggression," he said. "The current situation puts a very big question mark on the fate of the negotiations process that was launched in the Annapolis meeting," he added.

It is unclear how the story will unfold in the coming days. While thousands appear to have passed through Rafah, hundreds of thousands more remain locked in Gaza, including children dying in hospitals for lack of medical care. The developments of Wednesday may help the Egyptian government put more pressure on the US and Israel to break the siege and extend systematic humanitarian aid to Gaza, but even that is not certain. Israeli foreign minister said that the Israeli siege on and military plans against Gaza will not be put off by criticism. Meanwhile, many commentators will turn their eyes on the Arab foreign ministers meeting in Cairo Sunday, where significant pressure will doubtlessly be felt to adopt a resolution unilaterally breaking the Israeli siege.

Saleh Al-Naami in Gaza,
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/881/fr1.htm
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krypton6
01-25-2008, 11:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
To me it seems illogical to just randomly fire rockets from anywhere, whether it be Palestine or Egypt.. Logically what does it accomplish? Are they going to bring Israel down with mortar attacks? Logically the only solution is a two state solution and a peace agreement, after over 40 years of violence I dont see it as logical to continue fighting
Why on earth would they fire from Egypt when they know that doing so will just close the border in a matter of hours, Hamas arent stupid you know!

By attacking Israel they are keep up the fear. If they do not attack, more and more zionists and westerns will eventually move to Israel. 5 Million zionists have already claimed more than 90% of a muslim and arab nation, you can only imagine what more people would bring. The more people that moves to Israel the more Israel will take from the Palestinians and not least muslim.

Israel is america's state in the middle east, from where they can do anything!
Why on earth should we allow our enemies to live in the middle of our nations after what they have done to us?

format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
They choose to fight, they choose to die, they make decisions knowing the reprucussion could be a cut off of supply or an airstike.
Hamas are the palestinians! It is their duty to fight back against the brutal zionists, it is their duty to fight back as they have fought back for the past 60 years. If you had your family killed, house bulldozed, and land stolen would you not fight back yourself?

format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
To keep fighting for this tiny parcel of land that they have left is pointless, there is plenty of good land in the middle east, let the Israelis have it, move to an Arab country and when the time is right, if it still means as much to them, try and take it back.
This tiny parcel of land is muslim. Israelis robbed it from us, killed our people and have driven millions away from their homes, it is our duty to fight back after what they have done to us.

The palestinians have a strong opinion regarding their history, country and religion unlike you who think and believe as our enemies think and believe.

format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Either that or broker a peace deal that will at least allow them to build up some infrastructure and economy, spare the people at least a small period of peace time so they can gather their thoughts and make some rational decisions.
What your saying is not only against muslims but it is also against your religion. Live in peace with those who killed your family and robbed your country? The Palestinians are thinking as they have always thought, they are thinking and believing better than ever before. They fight back today as they fought back 60 years ago, they have not forgotten anything but aperantly a fellow "muslim" as yourself have.

format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Look at how much they have lost already, it is one thing to fight with honor for your country and homeland, it is a whole other to lose a war and continue fighting afterwards for 40 years only to lose much much much more than if you had just given up when the white flag was waved the first time. I pray for peace in this region of the world
What they have lost is what the zionists have stolen from them, the same zionists who you want the Palestinians to live in peace with.

The Palestinians have never lost a war, when every Palestinian recognizes Israel then they have trully lost the war, but that age we will never reach.
White flags were never waved by the zionists, they have always attacked the Palestinians and robbed them, they didnt come with peace!

"Surely nobody is niave enough to believe that all of them are just making a quick trip to the supermarket and then going back to Gaza?"

I believe so 100% and I know many others do. They can fight from Gaza why one arth would they fight from Egypt knowing that it would lead to much harm to the Palestinians. Not that they can fire from Egypt, because they never could!

I understand that non-muslims might support Israel, but muslims!?
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islamirama
01-26-2008, 12:32 AM
Palestine: A Desperate Cry For Help

Despite Gazans being able to cross into Egypt and obtain supplies the past two days, the humanitarian crisis still exists, especially as the border is projected to close back up again very soon.

In order to help the victims of the ongoing humanitarian crisis, Islamic Relief has launched a close to $10 million emergency appeal to help provide food, healthcare, and shelter in the worst effected areas.

Day by Day Breakdown of Islamic Relief's Aid Distributed Thus Far:
  • January 16 - Provided 150 Palestinian families with hygiene kits, kitchen sets, blankets, food parcels and water.
  • January 22 - Delivered $20,000 worth of medical disposables to Gaza’s hospitals.
  • January 23 - An additional $20,000 worth of medical drugs delivered to Gaza’s hospitals.
  • January 24 - Arranged orders of $600,000 worth of food, including rice beans, sugar, tomatoes, corn oil, and lentils, to distribute to affected families in Gaza.
Phase 2 of this ongoing project includes:
  • Food packages for another 30,000 families
  • 10,000 bottles of infant milk formula
  • 20 shipments of life-saving medicines to hospitals in the Gaza Strip
  • 1,600 shelter kits including blankets, cooking utensils and gas lights
  • Agriculture restoration including land leveling and network rehabs
  • Emergency psychosocial intervention in affected areas
Islamic Relief is working diligently to deliver emergency aid to the people of Gaza, especially medicine, medical disposables and food.

The Palestinians are in a desperate humanitarian situation and cannot survive without the help of generous donors like you.

Please donate generously.
Reply

The_Prince
01-26-2008, 01:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
Palestine: A Desperate Cry For Help

Despite Gazans being able to cross into Egypt and obtain supplies the past two days, the humanitarian crisis still exists, especially as the border is projected to close back up again very soon.

In order to help the victims of the ongoing humanitarian crisis, Islamic Relief has launched a close to $10 million emergency appeal to help provide food, healthcare, and shelter in the worst effected areas.

Day by Day Breakdown of Islamic Relief's Aid Distributed Thus Far:
  • January 16 - Provided 150 Palestinian families with hygiene kits, kitchen sets, blankets, food parcels and water.
  • January 22 - Delivered $20,000 worth of medical disposables to Gaza’s hospitals.
  • January 23 - An additional $20,000 worth of medical drugs delivered to Gaza’s hospitals.
  • January 24 - Arranged orders of $600,000 worth of food, including rice beans, sugar, tomatoes, corn oil, and lentils, to distribute to affected families in Gaza.
Phase 2 of this ongoing project includes:
  • Food packages for another 30,000 families
  • 10,000 bottles of infant milk formula
  • 20 shipments of life-saving medicines to hospitals in the Gaza Strip
  • 1,600 shelter kits including blankets, cooking utensils and gas lights
  • Agriculture restoration including land leveling and network rehabs
  • Emergency psychosocial intervention in affected areas
Islamic Relief is working diligently to deliver emergency aid to the people of Gaza, especially medicine, medical disposables and food.

The Palestinians are in a desperate humanitarian situation and cannot survive without the help of generous donors like you.

Please donate generously.
the terrorist state of Israel must be so mad at this, even with all their attempts and crimes, Allah helps these poor Palestinians by rewarding them for their patience and stead-fastness.

good job Israel, you also just made Hamas much much much more supported and popular in Gaza, they were starting to lose the support, but after your siege, and after Hamas blew the wall Hamas are now even more supported than before, while that idiot abbas and his thugs are even more hated.

if you ever wanted proof that fatah and abbas are no good thugs then it would be now, they sit in moderate comfort in the west bank and are getting money and help from Israel, while fellow Muslims and Palestinians are starving in Gaza, and they do NOTHING.
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snakelegs
01-26-2008, 01:13 AM
everyone thought that the palestinians were trapped - good for them! :thumbs_up
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krypton6
01-26-2008, 01:19 AM
They need rise, and milk for children no more no less, do not waist money on much else, mosques around the world are giving aids to Gaza and Hamas every friday, and if god willing they will be allright for as long as this will keep going.

Hamas should seriusly do something, bomb Israel even more, Hezbollah should attack from north and help Hamas.

How can the israelis be so barbaric that they wont even let hospitals to run.
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Gator
01-26-2008, 04:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Hamas should seriusly do something, bomb Israel even more, Hezbollah should attack from north and help Hamas.
I agree, that would help a lot. Even though they are giving the Israelis a justification for the barbaric acts they do in the eyes of the world.

I would like to thank all the Palestinian militants for undermining all the pressure that like minded people in the West would like to put on Israel, but can't due to the justification they provide the hawks in Israel.

Great Job!

Israel is on its last legs! 500-600 years and this is all over (for the Palestinians).
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Gator
01-26-2008, 04:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
everyone thought that the palestinians were trapped - good for them! :thumbs_up
Yeah, this is much better for them.
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جوري
01-26-2008, 04:19 AM
perhaps they should collectively go and dissolve under a rock somewhere?....

It is going to get a whole lot worst before it gets better...
I know it means not much to an atheist but them collecting there from all parts, including their eventual evacaution from Iran to Palestine is a sign of the end.. and not that of the palestinians!


cheers
Reply

Gator
01-26-2008, 04:37 AM
It means a lot to me. ITS NOT BLACK AND WHITE!

What's the endgame for the Palestinians (the innocent ones) here? They have to endure being pawns for both Hamas, Fatah and the pro-Israel faction.

I truly don't think the well fed, well fueled Hamas militants who broke this wall down give a **** about these people. If they did they would stop firing missles into Israel, giving the Israeli military the free license to kill additional Palestinians (mostly innocent might I add).

You know what, I just realized there is no endgame. This is it. Hamas in their well stocked bunkers and the israeli military pushing buttons, while the future collateral damage contine to scramble to feed themselves and hope for a better future for their kids, which will never happen.

Great job all around. Everyone.
Reply

جوري
01-26-2008, 04:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
It means a lot to me. ITS NOT BLACK AND WHITE!
No, it is not, you'll have to wait or die waiting..

What's the endgame for the Palestinians (the innocent ones) here? They have to endure being pawns for both Hamas, Fatah and the pro-Israel faction.
I think they are more pawns to random Israeli raids on their home than their own folks
Media Tags are no longer supported


I truly don't think the well fed, well fueled Hamas militants who broke this wall down give a **** about these people. If they did they would stop firing missles into Israel, giving the Israeli military the free license to kill additional Palestinians (mostly innocent might I add).
you've spent a day with a militant from Hamas to know how well fed they are, and whether or not they are firing over something the benevolent Israel doesn't want you to see?

You know what, I just realized there is no endgame. This is it. Hamas in their well stocked bunkers and the israeli military pushing buttons, while the future collateral damage contine to scramble to feed themselves and hope for a better future for their kids, which will never happen.
Great job all around. Everyone.
Now you are on to something, it won't end until it ends!


cheers
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ahsan28
01-26-2008, 04:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6

Hamas should seriusly do something, bomb Israel even more, Hezbollah should attack from north and help Hamas.
HAMAS is qualified to deal with beasts of the Middle East, why to drag Hezbollah into this matter? What kind of support, peculiar to this situation, do you expect from them?
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Gator
01-26-2008, 04:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Now you are on to something, it won't end until it ends!
Its not going to.
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جوري
01-26-2008, 04:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
Its not going to.
Everything comes to an end-- it is the human condition!

peace
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Gator
01-26-2008, 04:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Everything comes to an end-- it is the human condition!

peace
Not in this case.
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جوري
01-26-2008, 05:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
Not in this case.
well, you'll have to wait and see :)
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Gator
01-26-2008, 05:46 AM
Then I'm sure it'll end very well for all.
Reply

sevgi
01-26-2008, 06:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
It means a lot to me. ITS NOT BLACK AND WHITE!

What's the endgame for the Palestinians (the innocent ones) here? They have to endure being pawns for both Hamas, Fatah and the pro-Israel faction.

I truly don't think the well fed, well fueled Hamas militants who broke this wall down give a **** about these people. If they did they would stop firing missles into Israel, giving the Israeli military the free license to kill additional Palestinians (mostly innocent might I add).

You know what, I just realized there is no endgame. This is it. Hamas in their well stocked bunkers and the israeli military pushing buttons, while the future collateral damage contine to scramble to feed themselves and hope for a better future for their kids, which will never happen.

Great job all around. Everyone.

precisely.:)

thanks for that.
Reply

wilberhum
01-26-2008, 06:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
It means a lot to me. ITS NOT BLACK AND WHITE!

What's the endgame for the Palestinians (the innocent ones) here? They have to endure being pawns for both Hamas, Fatah and the pro-Israel faction.

I truly don't think the well fed, well fueled Hamas militants who broke this wall down give a **** about these people. If they did they would stop firing missles into Israel, giving the Israeli military the free license to kill additional Palestinians (mostly innocent might I add).

You know what, I just realized there is no endgame. This is it. Hamas in their well stocked bunkers and the israeli military pushing buttons, while the future collateral damage contine to scramble to feed themselves and hope for a better future for their kids, which will never happen.

Great job all around. Everyone.
Excellent job. We have all the hate mungers running around calling there group heroes when both sides are terrorists in there own way.

You killed our innocents so we will kill your innocents then the other comes back and kills more innocents which then calls for killing more innocents on the other side. It just goes back and forth with no end. Each being determined to kill the last group of innocents.

And the hate mongers just want it to go on and on and destroy another generation.
Reply

Woodrow
01-26-2008, 01:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Excellent job. We have all the hate mungers running around calling there group heroes when both sides are terrorists in there own way.

You killed our innocents so we will kill your innocents then the other comes back and kills more innocents which then calls for killing more innocents on the other side. It just goes back and forth with no end. Each being determined to kill the last group of innocents.

And the hate mongers just want it to go on and on and destroy another generation.
Peace Wilber,

Hate and Fear are very powerful motivators. It is a vicious cycle. Often the original cause is lost and it becomes of no importance as to who cast the first stone. the stone was cast and it continues to bounce back and forth, with each pass growing stronger and more vigorous.

The solution is simple. The external forces that are profiting from this carnage need to be stopped. The problem is in identifying just who it is that is profiting. Fingers point and say it is the USA that is profiting. Yet, it has proven to be a debit since 1947. People point and say it is the Jews who are profiting, yet Judaism is declining in Israel as more of the population ceases to practice Judaism and become more secular. Other People point and say the Palestinians are profiting, but they have been loosing, freedoms, lives and property daily.

The ones who profit are the munitions makers.

I doubt that this was anything planned. It is a rule of economics if a want is seen and a profit can be made from it, somebody will produce a product to fill this need. The very same people that sell the Israelis the raw products to build their military are most likely the same people that sell the Palestinians and Palestinian supporters missiles and explosive components.

People are dying and some very wealthy entity is sitting back watching a fireworks display and seeing more money as each rocket and bomb is fired, making a profit, both ways. Getting rich if Palestinians Kill Jews and getting rich if Jews kill Palestinians. A long term money generator that will last until somehow peace comes to the land.

Somebody is sitting safely in a fortified ivory tower laughing at each death Palestinian or Jew and rubbing his hands with glee at the sound of gun fire and explosions, knowing that is the sound of new sales and more money.
Reply

krypton6
01-26-2008, 01:54 PM
I would like to thank all the Palestinian militants for undermining all the pressure that like minded people in the West would like to put on Israel, but can't due to the justification they provide the hawks in Israel."

The way I see it, this just gives Hamas the justification of bombing Israel even harder.

What do you want!? Do you want the palestinians to recognize israel, and live in peace with them after all what they have done to the palestinians?
After all the torturing, killing and bombing of palestine? After all the robbing of their homes? Do you want the palestinians to recognize Israel after all that?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________

"Excellent job. We have all the hate mungers running around calling there group heroes when both sides are terrorists in there own way."

Please explain to me in what way it is that Hamas is killing innocent civilians, because I have never heard of Hamas killing civilians.

"It just goes back and forth with no end. Each being determined to kill the last group of innocents."

how can you call israelis civilians? If someone stole your house and lived inside it, would you think of the man inside as a civilian?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________


HAMAS is qualified to deal with beasts of the Middle East, why to drag Hezbollah into this matter? What kind of support, peculiar to this situation, do you expect from them?

Muslims are supposed to help each other, Hezbollah can help alot, but then again; I dont think that they would want a new war against israel, well they do but Lebanon does not.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Somebody is sitting safely in a fortified ivory tower laughing at each death Palestinian or Jew and rubbing his hands with glee at the sound of gun fire and explosions, knowing that is the sound of new sales and more money.
How one earth could a palestinian make a wealth out of this war? This has nothing to do with money, at least not on the palestinian side and I doubt that it has on the Israeli.
Reply

sevgi
01-26-2008, 01:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Peace Wilber,

Hate and Fear are very powerful motivators. It is a vicious cycle. Often the original cause is lost and it becomes of no importance as to who cast the first stone. the stone was cast and it continues to bounce back and forth, with each pass growing stronger and more vigorous.

The solution is simple. The external forces that are profiting from this carnage need to be stopped. The problem is in identifying just who it is that is profiting. Fingers point and say it is the USA that is profiting. Yet, it has proven to be a debit since 1947. People point and say it is the Jews who are profiting, yet Judaism is declining in Israel as more of the population ceases to practice Judaism and become more secular. Other People point and say the Palestinians are profiting, but they have been loosing, freedoms, lives and property daily.

The ones who profit are the munitions makers.

I doubt that this was anything planned. It is a rule of economics if a want is seen and a profit can be made from it, somebody will produce a product to fill this need. The very same people that sell the Israelis the raw products to build their military are most likely the same people that sell the Palestinians and Palestinian supporters missiles and explosive components.

People are dying and some very wealthy entity is sitting back watching a fireworks display and seeing more money as each rocket and bomb is fired, making a profit, both ways. Getting rich if Palestinians Kill Jews and getting rich if Jews kill Palestinians. A long term money generator that will last until somehow peace comes to the land.

Somebody is sitting safely in a fortified ivory tower laughing at each death Palestinian or Jew and rubbing his hands with glee at the sound of gun fire and explosions, knowing that is the sound of new sales and more money.
so ur saying it is merely the sheer love and urge for money which drives this 'war'?

thats ur central message rite? just checking...
Reply

Cognescenti
01-26-2008, 03:43 PM
You know, there is a Christian group trying to breed a red heifer (calf) because it is mentioned in a Biblical prophesy as a portend to the Rapture.

Does this strike anyone else as silly? Not that a red heifer wouldn't be a cool thing to see, but, honestly, if some of this stuff rhymed it could be in a Dr Seuss book.

If you ask me, there is some equal silliness afoot on the Muslim side.

We have violent groups advocating or excusing violence precisely because it is mentioned in prophetic statements. I cannot understand why a loving God would induce his creatures to kill one another so they could all be saved and go to Heaven.

I think I will try to lead a moral life and help those less fortunate. If I am sometimes blunt with someone on the web..well..they are usually leftists or advocate the destruction of my neighbors..that can be excused, I think.

One fish, two fish
Red fish, blue fish.......
Reply

krypton6
01-26-2008, 04:59 PM
Muslims are only fighting for freedom and justice.

Hamas and any other organisation, be it al-Qaida or Fatah, have never killed in the name of God.

They fight for justice and freedom which is the duty of every muslim and human.
Reply

wilberhum
01-26-2008, 07:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Muslims are only fighting for freedom and justice.

Hamas and any other organisation, be it al-Qaida or Fatah, have never killed in the name of God.

They fight for justice and freedom which is the duty of every muslim and human.
:giggling::giggling::giggling::giggling::giggling: :giggling::giggling::giggling:

Well I really shouldn't do that. There is nothing funny when people deny the obvious.

It is nice to think you can rap up any group and put a nice bow on it.

The reality of group dynamics will show much diversity.
Reply

wilberhum
01-26-2008, 07:08 PM
Woodrow,
I do think you have a small peace of the puzzle but I think the big peace is still hate.

There are many like K6 that use there hate to ignore that there between two and two thousand sides to this situation.
They want there side to keep up the killing till there is victory.
They ignore the fact that 60 years of killing has only destroyed generations.

Maybe it is just the evil side of me, but I want peace.
:peace:
Wilber
Reply

islamirama
01-26-2008, 07:58 PM
The bigger piece is this

zionist want all of the palestine and kick or every single palestinian out

palestinians are doing what they can to survive

evengical christians are siding with zionists in order to speed up the return of jesus.

Jesus wont' come till zionist temple is built, which zionists are working on with so many underground tunnels they have dug up in hopes of collapsing the masjid aqsa. In part of their schemes, they show the Golden dome masjid whenever they mention aqsa to fool people. They have all the preparations made and just waiting to build their temple.

evangical christians want to help zionist do all this so they can have jesus return soon and so they can wage their holy war on the world with jesus and wipe out everyone but christians.

Which is why zionist is a welfare state that gets more aid money from US then ALL of africa combined. zionist also gets all its military weapons and power from US to oppress and massacre palestinians and lebanoese in order to make greater israel.

So quite clearly US and Israel are the thorns and culprits in this chaos.
Reply

جوري
01-26-2008, 08:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
The bigger piece is this

zionist want all of the palestine and kick or every single palestinian out

palestinians are doing what they can to survive

evengical christians are siding with zionists in order to speed up the return of jesus.

Jesus wont' come till zionist temple is built, which zionists are working on with so many underground tunnels they have dug up in hopes of collapsing the masjid aqsa. In part of their schemes, they show the Golden dome masjid whenever they mention aqsa to fool people. They have all the preparations made and just waiting to build their temple.

evangical christians want to help zionist do all this so they can have jesus return soon and so they can wage their holy war on the world with jesus and wipe out everyone but christians.

Which is why zionist is a welfare state that gets more aid money from US then ALL of africa combined. zionist also gets all its military weapons and power from US to oppress and massacre palestinians and lebanoese in order to make greater israel.

So quite clearly US and Israel are the thorns and culprits in this chaos.
that is saying it, like it actually is...
The Jews await their Mosciach but instead of following the commandments until he leads them back to their promised land if indeed they were the ones promised it, they go ahead and build their debauched secular state, like God is not going to have choice in the matter (we are here God), and using the christians whom they deem as idolators for worshipping not only a false prophet but exalting him to God status.. while the Chrisians await their republican Jesus to descend down on a silver cloud for a deliscious rapture where he will rule for a thousand years and they'll all leave everything behind to ascend to heaven's pearly gates.. the whole thing is bloody hilarious when you think about it..It is a perfect marriage between the both of them.. but do tell me then in their midst, who are the meek that are left to inherit the earth?

says,
﴿وَلَقَدْ كَتَبْنَا فِي ٱلزَّبُورِ مِن بَعْدِ ٱلذِّكْرِ أَنَّ ٱلأَرْضَ يَرِثُهَا عِبَادِيَ
ٱلصَّالِحُونَ﴾
“And We have already written in the book (of Psalms, the scriptures) after
the (previous) mention (Torah) that the land is inherited by My righteous
servants.” (al-Anbiyaa’: 105)

﴿إِنَّ ٱلأَرْضَ للَّهِ يُورِثُهَا مَن يَشَآءُ مِنْ عِبَادِهِ وَٱلْعَاقِبَةُ لِلْمُتَّقِينَ﴾
The earth belongs to Allah and He will inherit it to whomever He wills of
His servants but eventually the earth will be inherited by the Muttaqeen
(pious). (al-‘Araaf: 128)

:w:
Reply

krypton6
01-26-2008, 08:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well I really shouldn't do that. There is nothing funny when people deny the obvious.

It is nice to think you can rap up any group and put a nice bow on it.

The reality of group dynamics will show much diversity.
Deny the obvious!?

You clearly dont know anything about Hamas or al-Qaida or the so called "terrorism". The way you see it, Bin Laden is killing "civilians" but you refuse to go behind the media and find out why it is that he is doing what he is doing.

There are many like K6 that use there hate to ignore that there between two and two thousand sides to this situation.

Give me one that I dont know about. There's two sides of this sittuation and I know both, you on the other hand dont seem to know either of them.

They want there side to keep up the killing till there is victory.
They ignore the fact that 60 years of killing has only destroyed generations.


The way I see it they attacked us, killed us and robbed us. In order to return to our homes we must kill those who harm us and those who prevent us from doing so.

Those same people who died chose to die, they chose to fight back against the zionists, they risked their own lives in order to save the lives of their children, and their children are now risking their own lives in order to return to the lands of where their parents died.
Reply

wilberhum
01-26-2008, 08:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Deny the obvious!?

You clearly dont know anything about Hamas or al-Qaida or the so called "terrorism". The way you see it, Bin Laden is killing "civilians" but you refuse to go behind the media and find out why it is that he is doing what he is doing.

There are many like K6 that use there hate to ignore that there between two and two thousand sides to this situation.

Give me one that I dont know about. There's two sides of this sittuation and I know both, you on the other hand dont seem to know either of them.

They want there side to keep up the killing till there is victory.
They ignore the fact that 60 years of killing has only destroyed generations.


The way I see it they attacked us, killed us and robbed us. In order to return to our homes we must kill those who harm us and those who prevent us from doing so.

Those same people who died chose to die, they chose to fight back against the zionists, they risked their own lives in order to save the lives of their children, and their children are now risking their own lives in order to return to the lands of where their parents died.
My bet is 60 years from now the killing will still be happening.
Reply

Cognescenti
01-26-2008, 08:52 PM
Oh dear. Let me see if I understand. The tunnels in the Temple Mount (or whatever Muslims call the place) are there to make the Muslim holy places fall into the earth? :'( Those Israelites...tsk, tsk, tsk....you just cant trust them!

Is there like a red button or something that will take out the last support?



BTW..anyone want to hazzard a guess as to how much grant-in-aid Israel received from the US State Dept. last year? Not loans, not private aid, not discounted tickets to the Washington Monument.
Reply

جوري
01-26-2008, 08:58 PM
FEATURE-Israel excavation work near shrine fans Muslim ire

By Jonathan Saul

JERUSALEM, Jan 29 (Reuters) - Israeli excavations near Jerusalem's most sensitive shrine have sparked fury among Muslims who fear such works endanger its foundations, but officials involved say they will not damage the holy site.

Israeli authorities are involved in a few excavation projects near al-Haram al-Sharif, the site of the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque where the biblical Jewish Temples once stood. The Western Wall -- Judaism's holiest site -- overlooks the shrine in the Israeli-annexed old city of Jerusalem.

In the past, Israeli work in the area has triggered violent protests. The opening of an archaeological tunnel near al-Haram al-Sharif triggered Palestinian anger in 1996. Sixty-one Arabs and 15 Israeli soldiers were killed in clashes.

On Monday, Palestinian militants who claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing in the Israeli resort of Eilat, which killed three people, said it was a response to Israeli attempts to "defile" al-Aqsa mosque.

In the latest work in the area, Israel unveiled earlier this month an archaeological site near the Western Wall where there are plans to build a new heritage centre.

The Waqf, the Islamic Trust which administers al-Haram al-Sharif, says the work has weakened structures in the area.

But Arieh Banner, an official with Israel's Western Wall Heritage Foundation, a government-created body which runs the site, said there was no chance it would cause damage.

"The site is at least 60 metres from the Wall," he said. "Everything is being done and planned with engineers."

Al Aqsa Brigades spokesman Abu Qusai accused Israel of carrying out building work underneath the mosque as well as continued archaeological digging in the area, which could undermine the foundations of the mosque.

"The attack was in response to the continued Israeli aggression and the attempts to defile the al-Aqsa mosque," Abu Qusai said. The militants added the Eilat attack was just the beginning of operations "in defence of al-Aqsa".

Israeli government spokeswoman Miri Eisin said in response: "Palestinian terror organisations never lack a reason to attack innocent civilians wherever they can. This is why we are always on guard against their activities."

Shmuel Rabinowitz, Rabbi of the Western Wall and Jewish holy sites in Israel, said there were no plans to excavate under al-Haram al-Sharif, known to Jews as Temple Mount.

"There is no such plan as this. There has not been any such plan," he told Reuters. "Any work that is being done is far away from the Temple Mount. There is no doubt about that."



SYNAGOGUE AND BRIDGE

Israel captured East Jerusalem in the 1967 Middle East war and later annexed it, a step that has not been recognised internationally. Palestinians want the eastern part of the city as the capital of a future state.

In recent days there has growing Muslim anger at reports of a plan by Jews to build a synagogue near to al-Aqsa Mosque.

Last week the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, the world's largest Muslim body, warned of "dire consequences" of such a move. But Israeli officials said they were renovating an existing synagogue and had no plans to build a new one.

"We are not speaking about a new synagogue, but the renovation of a synagogue which was established before 1967 and one which is far away from the Temple Mount," Rabinowitz said.

Archaeologists also recently began excavation work on a new plan to build a bridge for visitors to reach al-Haram al-Sharif from the Western Wall, which has also caused controversy.

The bridge, which would touch part of the Western Wall, is intended to replace a temporary wooden one built after a 2004 earthquake damaged the foundations of an existing ramp.

Yuval Baruch, Jerusalem district archaeologist, said initial excavation work was only just beginning and all precautions were being taken to ensure no damage to the area.

Due to its sensitivity, the project is under the coordination of Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office.

"Everyone is aware that the Western Wall, the Temple Mount, any construction, any excavations are sensitive issues," said Eisin. "It is being taken care of to avoid events like we had in 1996 with the opening of the tunnel."
http://www.reuters.com/article/lates.../idUSL29208864


all you need to do is google, you might avoid having your foot in your mouth on every post ey?

cheers
Reply

جوري
01-26-2008, 09:00 PM
Thursday, February 08, 2007
Israel Build A Bridge Under Al-Aqsa Mosque - AlJazeera
By: Mohammed Mar'i*

(Ramallah, Occupied Palestine)--

While severe fighting continues between Fatah and Hamas in the Gaza Strip, Israel will start constructing a bridge At Al Aqsa Mosque this week.

The director of the cartographic department in the society for Arab Studies, Khalil Toufakji, has warned of an ethnic cleansing operation against some 24,000 Palestinians in the old city of Jerusalem.

Toufakji added that Israel has built "the Jewish neighborhood" in the city, which contains around 70 settlement units.

Speaking in a press conference in Ramallah on Saturday, Toufakji spoke about the holy city, "and the dangers it faces in the shadow of the Israeli government policy of Judaizing the city".

He added that "anyone who is watching the Israeli strategy in the city will find that it has reached a dangerous stage, and is now in the last steps of its demographic Judaization."

Operating on the demographic level, the policy aims to reduce the number of Palestinian citizens in the city, so the Israelis will form a significant majority in the future.

Toufakji drew attention to the tunnels and bridges which Israel is currently constructing. The Israeli authorities are attempting to build a link between the Western wall complex by opening a tunnel from Magharbah Gate. It is understood that this tunnel will be opened on Sunday.

Toufakji declared "there is nothing left of the Magharbah neighborhood… the goal of all these excavations is an attempt to find the temple although there isn't proven sign of its existence in the place."

Toufakji criticized the Palestinian, Arab and Islamic neglect of Jerusalem saying "as all parties are ignoring the issue of Jerusalem… we speak on every occasion about the dangers facing the city but we do nothing".

He also mentioned the change in the Israeli prime minister's convergence plans, stating that "there will be streets for Jews only, and other streets for Palestinians."
Reply

جوري
01-26-2008, 09:00 PM
OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, January 3, 2006 (IslamOnline.net) – The Supreme Islamic Association and Al-Aqsa Association for Construction of the Holy Shrines accused Israel on Tuesday, January 3, of building a Jewish synagogue beneath Al-Aqsa Mosque, warning that the continued Israeli excavations jeopardize the mosque's structure.

"The synagogue has been built right beneath Al-Aqsa Mosque, some 90m from the Dome of the Rock," Raed Salah, the leader of the Islamic Movement inside the Green Line, told a press conference in the holy city, reported Al-Jazeera.

He said the synagogue includes seven rooms tracing the Jewish history.

"One of these rooms features Germany's Nazi rule and the World War II Holocaust."

Salah said that works were in full swing to build another synagogue for women under the mosque.

The conference featured video footages and photos documenting the synagogue as well as the continued Israeli excavations.

Al-Haram Al-Sharif, which includes Al-Aqsa Mosque, represents the heart of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

Jews claim that their alleged Haykal (Temple of Solomon) exists underneath Al-Haram Al-Sharif which was the first qiblah (direction Muslims take during prayers).

Al-Haram Al-Sharif's significance has been reinforced by the incident of Al-Israa’ and Al-Mi`raj (the night journey from Makkah to Al-Quds and the ascent to the Heavens by Prophet Muhammad).

"Full Swing"


Sheikh Ekrema (L) urged the Arab and Islamic worlds to intervene to halt Israeli excavations.


Sheikh Ekrema Sabri, the Mufti of Al-Quds and Palestine, echoed a similar warning.

"The Israeli authorities have been exploiting the big gates of the western side of al-Aqsa since 1996 through conducting a series of excavation works which ended with clandestinely erecting a synagogue," he told the same conference.

"Constructing such a synagogue proves that the Israelis did not find any sign for their alleged Haykal, that is why they made up some rooms to vaguely narrate their religious history," Sabri added.

He urged the Arab and Islamic worlds to intervene to halt Israeli excavations under Al-Aqsa.

Salah, meanwhile, warned that Israeli excavations under the holy site were threatening the structure of the mosque.

"A truck driver was assigned to move equipments to the excavation sites and he was shocked to see a huge tunnel under the mosque that can allow a truck to pass through," he said.

He said excavations under the mosque are continuing in full swing to establish the Haykal before 2007, dismissing them as a "black stain" on Israel.

Israeli authorities recently unveiled an underground site that they say strengthens Jewish ties to the compound.

Palestinian and Jordanian archeologists have warned that ongoing Israeli excavations have weakened the foundations of the mosque, cautioning it would not stand a powerful earthquake.

A part of the road leading to one of the mosque’s main gates collapsed in February, 2004 due to the destructive Israeli digging work.

New Intifada

Salah warned that the Israeli aggressions against the Muslim holy site would have grave repercussions.

"You are inviting an uprising against you just to stop your attack on the mosque," he said, addressing himself to the Israeli government.

Al-Aqsa Intifada broke out in September 2000 after a provocative visit by then opposition leader Ariel Sharon to the mosque.

In 1996, eighty people were killed in clashes with the Israeli occupation forces to protest the opening of an Israeli tunnel alongside the compound.

On August 21, 1969, Al-Aqsa was set ablaze, gutting its southern wing –- some 1,500 square meters out of a total of 4,400 -- and destroyed the historical pulpit established by Muslim hero Salahudin Al-Ayyubi.

Palestinians pointed the finger at Jewish extremists and the Israeli government, which claimed that the fire was triggered by a short circuit but later admitted that a man from Australia, who sought refuge in a kibbutz, was found guilty.

The man was set free after receiving psychiatric counseling.

You May Read Also:

Jewish Group Backs Palestinians on Al-Aqsa
http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...rticle09.shtml
Reply

Cognescenti
01-26-2008, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia

all you need to do is google, you might avoid having your foot in your mouth on every post ey?

cheers
Yes, yes, of course. I know there are excavations in the area of the wall of the ancient Temple. I find the notion that it is a plot to make the al Aqsa mosque fall down preposterous.

It can hardly be argued that there are legitimate archeological sites.
Reply

جوري
01-26-2008, 09:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Yes, yes, of course. I know there are excavations in the area of the wall of the ancient Temple. I find the notion that it is a plot to make the al Aqsa mosque fall down preposterous.

It can hardly be argued that there are legitimate archeological sites.
well it isn't preposterous because that is the VERY SITE they wish to build their temple on.. in fact out of the admittance of the Jewish members on this very forum.. one of them informed me personally how we Muslims will be taking the bricks of Al aqsa one by one... do visit comparative every now and then..

amazingly whenever they dig they only find Islamic repositories and monuments..nothing in that land belongs to them, yet they desperatly want to make it so.. even their wailing wall wasn't built by the prophet Solomon rather Suleiman the Magnificent (a Muslim) some 400 years ago..

How educated is the American public of history of the colonial settler zionist state where they dump their money..

what a hoot!

cheers
Reply

Fishman
01-26-2008, 10:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
amazingly whenever they dig they only find Islamic repositories and monuments..nothing in that land belongs to them, yet they desperatly want to make it so.. even their wailing wall wasn't built by the prophet Solomon rather Suleiman the Magnificent (a Muslim) some 400 years ago..
:sl:
You are the one denying history now. It has been well-known and accepted by Muslims since the conquest of Jerusalem that the Temple Mount is the ruin of the Jewish Temple. If it wasn't, why was the Dome of the Rock built there?

How educated is the American public of history of the colonial settler zionist state where they dump their money..
:hiding:
:w:
Reply

krypton6
01-26-2008, 10:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
My bet is 60 years from now the killing will still be happening.
Yes I agree, 60 years from now palestinian freedom fighting will still exist.

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
PS: You don't know shi* about me.
Naaah I think I have a pretty good idea of you by now.
Reply

جوري
01-26-2008, 10:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
You are the one denying history now. It has been well-known and accepted by Muslims since the conquest of Jerusalem that the Temple Mount is the ruin of the Jewish Temple. If it wasn't, why was the Dome of the Rock built there?


:hiding:
:w:
facinating.. how is a 'ruined temple' proof that their temple exists beneath al Aqsa mosque? and why can't they find it still amidst all their excavation?
try not to get all your info from the zionist colloquium, especially if you haven't actually been keeping up with their digs and/or finds..

:w:
Reply

wilberhum
01-26-2008, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Naaah I think I have a pretty good idea of you by now.
You just have to hate us peacenicks.
Reply

Fishman
01-26-2008, 10:28 PM
Yes I agree, 60 years from now palestinian freedom fighting will still exist.
:sl:
Not if my Empire can help it...:Evil:


Naaah I think I have a pretty good idea of you by now.
Wrong! For all you know, Wilberhum could be a roadrunner. You have not met him at all, you only hear things he says off the internet and you probably over-exaggerate him in your head to make him seem worse than he actually is (most people do this with people they don't like). Wilberhum is actually rather intelligent...
:w:
Reply

Fishman
01-26-2008, 10:48 PM
facinating.. how is a 'ruined temple' proof that their temple exists beneath al Aqsa mosque? and why can't they find it still amidst all their excavation?
You don't have to dig for it, if you are looking for an gigantic thousand-year-old temple somewhere in the city of Jerusalem, where would you think it is? Could it be that massive crumbling temple-like ruin in the centre of the city? Naah, I guess not! :D

try not to get all your info from the zionist colloquium, especially if you haven't actually been keeping up with their digs and/or finds..
I don't get my info from a 'zionist colloquium', I get it from regular history. Denying that the temple mount is the Jewish temple is as bad as saying that Nottingham Castle is in fact an ancient Greek acropolis.
And don't bother accusing me of not keeping up with there 'digs and finds'. I don't see you messing around with a trowel. Or were you keeping up with the results online, using such services as hamas.com!


The Prophet (peace be upon him) ascended to Heaven from the 'Farthest Mosque'. It is accepted by most Muslims that the rock on the temple mount under the Dome of the Rock was the rock that he stood on. But the dome of the rock was not there when the Prophet (peace be upon him) ascended. So What would 'the Furthest Mosque' mean other than the Temple's Ruins?

Also, Muslim historians from pre-Israeli times have accepted beyond a doubt that the building is in fact Solomon's Temple. These include Imam Abu 'Abdullah Al-Qurtubi and Abi Ja'far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, who quoted a response from the Prophet (peace be upon him). You really have no ground to stand upon...
:w:
Reply

جوري
01-26-2008, 11:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
You don't have to dig for it, if you are looking for an gigantic thousand-year-old temple somewhere in the city of Jerusalem, where would you think it is? Could it be that massive crumbling temple-like ruin in the centre of the city? Naah, I guess not! :D
I am really not sure what the point is? a temple destoryed like many before it, another one is built, as in a house of God, is it ok in your mind to destory al Aqsa for a ruined/non-existing temple?


I don't get my info from a 'zionist colloquium', I get it from regular history. Denying that the temple mount is the Jewish temple is as bad as saying that Nottingham Castle is in fact an ancient Greek acropolis.
And don't bother accusing me of not keeping up with there 'digs and finds'. I don't see you messing around with a trowel. Or were you keeping up with the results online, using such services as hamas.com!
Again, I fail to see your point.. the detours of this thread were of zionist excavation beneath Al-Aqsa, in an attempt to demolish it so they may build their third temple whether or not their ruins lie there.. in fact they haven't found any of their 'old treasures' beneath it, what they do find are monuments dating back to sala7 adeen alayoubi and such.. further please don't assume where I get my info from.. their so-called 2nd temple if also where they believe Abraham sacrificed his son Issac, if that is 'history' to you, then by all means, I am not sure why you are wasting your time being a Muslim.. we hold different beliefs.. beliefs aren't a substitute for history!


The Prophet (peace be upon him) ascended to Heaven from the 'Farthest Mosque'. It is accepted by most Muslims that the rock on the temple mount under the Dome of the Rock was the rock that he stood on. But the dome of the rock was not there when the Prophet (peace be upon him) ascended. So What would 'the Furthest Mosque' mean other than the Temple's Ruins?
Why do you keep injecting that in here? what is your point? that they should go ahead and demolish the mosque and erect their third temple?

Also, Muslim historians from pre-Israeli times have accepted beyond a doubt that the building is in fact Solomon's Temple. These include Imam Abu 'Abdullah Al-Qurtubi and Abi Ja'far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, who quoted a response from the Prophet (peace be upon him). You really have no ground to stand upon...
:w:
neither do you, because no matter how you slice it, the current zionist state has nothing to do with the 'original temple' or the original hebrews--

format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of
Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or
inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If
this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the
eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition,
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO
genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents
of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been
documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can
claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day
"Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact
that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine
was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and
assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only
ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled
the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a
history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
A quote from the jews talmud concerning Jesus...

...'R. Yochanan said (regarding Balaam): In the beginning a prophet, in the end a sorcerer.
Rav Papa said: As people say, "She was the descendant of princes and rulers, she played the harlot with carpenters."'

The inscription on the Islamic Dome of the Rock concerning Jesus...

...'Bless your envoy and your servant Jesus son of Mary and peace upon him on the day of birth and on the day of death and on the day he is raised up again. It is a word of truth in which they doubt. It is not for God to take a son. Glory be to him when he decrees a thing he only says be and it is' Inscription on the Dome of the Rock.

if your claim to fame here, is that they should indeed go ahead and excavate and ruin Al-Aqsa while genociding a few million Muslims, in favor of ruins that never belonged to this zionist state to begin with, given that the inhabitants (palis) were at some point originally Jewish and Christian and eventually Muslim, then by all means..
I am done with this!

:w:
Reply

Whatsthepoint
01-26-2008, 11:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I am really not sure what the point is? a temple destoryed like many before it, another one is built, as in a house of God, is it ok in your mind to destory al Aqsa for a ruined/non-existing temple?
I've heard some Jews believe the temple has to be rebuilt in order for the messiah to come, so I guess it's definitely ok for them..
Reply

Fishman
01-26-2008, 11:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I am really not sure what the point is? a temple destoryed like many before it, another one is built, as in a house of God, is it ok in your mind to destory al Aqsa for a ruined/non-existing temple?



Again, I fail to see your point.. the detours of this thread were of zionist excavation beneath Al-Aqsa, in an attempt to demolish it so they may build their third temple whether or not their ruins lie there.. in fact they haven't found any of their 'old treasures' beneath it, what they do find are monuments dating back to sala7 adeen alayoubi and such.. further please don't assume where I get my info from.. their so-called 2nd temple if also where they believe Abraham sacrificed his son Issac, if that is 'history' to you, then by all means, I am not sure why you are wasting your time being a Muslim.. we hold different beliefs.. beliefs aren't a substitute for history!



Why do you keep injecting that in here? what is your point? that they should go ahead and demolish the mosque and erect their third temple?



neither do you, because no matter how you slice it, the current zionist state has nothing to do with the 'original temple' or the original hebrews--




if your claim to fame here, is that they should indeed go ahead and excavate and ruin Al-Aqsa while genociding a few million Muslims, in favor of ruins that never belonged to this zionist state to begin with, given that the inhabitants (palis) were at some point originally Jewish and Christian and eventually Muslim, then by all means..
I am done with this!

:w:
:sl:
At what point did I say we should destroy al-Aqsa. You are poisoning my words!

I merely stated the obvious fact that the Jewish Temple is under al-Aqsa. Jews aren't actually allowed by their religion to go up there anyway, they have to burn some kind of animal and rub the ashes on themselves to be pure or something, so there is no reason to re-build one. And the temple mount is holy to Muslims for the same reason as it is holy to Jews. The al-Aqsa Masjid was intended by Suleiman I as a rebuilt temple.

And it is clear from the rest of your post that you did not understand, or did not want to understand, anything that I was saying. I give up with you too. Shame on you. :(
:w:
Reply

krypton6
01-26-2008, 11:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
You just have to hate us peacenicks.
I want peace, you want people to bow to america regardless of what america has done to them in the past.
Reply

wilberhum
01-26-2008, 11:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
I want peace, you want people to bow to america regardless of what america has done to them in the past.
And the basis for that statement?

I mean beside you ignorant bias. :raging:
Reply

جوري
01-27-2008, 12:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
At what point did I say we should destroy al-Aqsa. You are poisoning my words!

I merely stated the obvious fact that the Jewish Temple is under al-Aqsa. Jews aren't actually allowed by their religion to go up there anyway, they have to burn some kind of animal and rub the ashes on themselves to be pure or something, so there is no reason to re-build one. And the temple mount is holy to Muslims for the same reason as it is holy to Jews. The al-Aqsa Masjid was intended by Suleiman I as a rebuilt temple.

And it is clear from the rest of your post that you did not understand, or did not want to understand, anything that I was saying. I give up with you too. Shame on you. :(
:w:

:sl:
I am sorry I didn't mean to upset you, as angry as I was with your posts, I actually feel bad I upset a Muslim..

:w:
Reply

Gator
01-27-2008, 05:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
The way I see it, this just gives Hamas the justification of bombing Israel even harder.
Thanks for reminding me. I would like to thank all the hopped up Israeli killers who, after Palestinians launch katusha rockets and killing an Israeli shrub, hit a palestinian wedding reception or picnic on the beach killing a "senior bomb maker" and oh by the way 20-30 innocent civilians. Thus giving the morons who are the vanguard of the Palestinian resistance the justification to kill more Israeli shrubs (and possibly, though not likely, an Ecudorian volunteer or elderly Israeli grandmother). You showed em.

You are by far really good at what you do. Thank you so much.
Reply

Fishman
01-27-2008, 08:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
:sl:
I am sorry I didn't mean to upset you, as angry as I was with your posts, I actually feel bad I upset a Muslim..

:w:
:sl:
That's OK... :peace:
:w:
Reply

krypton6
01-27-2008, 01:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
Thanks for reminding me. I would like to thank all the hopped up Israeli killers who, after Palestinians launch katusha rockets and killing an Israeli shrub, hit a palestinian wedding reception or picnic on the beach killing a "senior bomb maker" and oh by the way 20-30 innocent civilians. Thus giving the morons who are the vanguard of the Palestinian resistance the justification to kill more Israeli shrubs (and possibly, though not likely, an Ecudorian volunteer or elderly Israeli grandmother). You showed em.

You are by far really good at what you do. Thank you so much.
The israelis attack and kill palestinians, the palestinians fight back, the israelis kill more palestinians, the palestinians fight back and so on, you get it?

95% of all palestinians agree with Hamas, so dont make it sound like as if Hamas are attacking Israel on behalf of Hamas only, in fact Hamas are fighting back on behalf of the palestinians, and you cant blaim them for fighting back! You would do the exact same thing if someone kicked you out of your house and killed your family.
Reply

wilberhum
01-27-2008, 07:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
The israelis attack and kill palestinians, the palestinians fight back, the israelis kill more palestinians, the palestinians fight back and so on, you get it?

95% of all palestinians agree with Hamas, so dont make it sound like as if Hamas are attacking Israel on behalf of Hamas only, in fact Hamas are fighting back on behalf of the palestinians, and you cant blaim them for fighting back! You would do the exact same thing if someone kicked you out of your house and killed your family.
Ya, fight back by blowing up a bus load of children on there way to school. :grumbling

Blowing up a baker at work is also fighting back?

95% of all Palestinians agree with Hamas. What a pile.

Also do you know that 95% of all stats are made up. :giggling:
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krypton6
01-27-2008, 07:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Ya, fight back by blowing up a bus load of children on there way to school. :grumbling

Blowing up a baker at work is also fighting back?

95% of all Palestinians agree with Hamas. What a pile.

Also do you know that 95% of all stats are made up. :giggling:
When did Hamas blow up a bus with loads of children inside?

Blowing up a israeli baker is fighting back. That baker lives in israel, he lives in my house on my land, I could return to my house if it werent for him.

Lets go back to the kids a sec. Those kids are the same kids who are brainwashed by the israelis and a few years later made into israeli soldiers killing palestinian civilians. Those kids are the same kids who write lovely letters on the missiles later fired at palestinian homes. Those kids are the furture of Israel, take them away and Israel will have no furture, but still; when did Hamas bomb a israeli school bus?
Reply

wilberhum
01-27-2008, 07:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
When did Hamas blow up a bus with loads of children inside?

Blowing up a israeli baker is fighting back. That baker lives in israel, he lives in my house on my land, I could return to my house if it werent for him.

Lets go back to the kids a sec. Those kids are the same kids who are brainwashed by the israelis and a few years later made into israeli soldiers killing palestinian civilians. Those kids are the same kids who write lovely letters on the missiles later fired at palestinian homes. Those kids are the furture of Israel, take them away and Israel will have no furture, but still; when did Hamas bomb a israeli school bus?
That's the standard. It is OK to kill someone just because of where they live.

Standard OBL logic, nothing new. Just the same old hate.
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truemuslim
01-27-2008, 07:31 PM
...you know i like the old way ppl used to do wars...you know those people without an empty skull..yah the poeple who WANT to fight for there nation go to a certain battle field with the other army and they just fight until one side surrenders or somthing like that...not go on and kill random people who are just so innocent going to work to earn some money..doesnt matter if they are muslims or isrealis or christians or whatever no one shud kill innocent people...
the only people who shud fight are the ones who WANT to not mess up everyones lives over nothing
Reply

krypton6
01-27-2008, 07:32 PM
No I cant kill someone because he lives on the wrong side of the street.

But I can kill the person who kicked me out of my own house and killed my family.
Reply

chacha_jalebi
01-27-2008, 07:36 PM
^ and that comment just sums up the whole thread :mmokay:

palestinians blow up the border wall was the original topic and know people are talking about killing others!!!

just to add to the off topicness:p

pakistan beat zimbabwe in cricket and won the series yayy :D

:threadclo
Reply

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