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glo
01-26-2008, 06:31 PM
I saw a picture of this beautiful mosque in today's Independent, and had to check it up on the web.
Just look at this :



Wow!
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Danah
01-26-2008, 06:49 PM
masha allah it is really huge and nice
to know more about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezquita
http://archnet.org/library/sites/one...jsp?site_id=31
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mariam.
01-26-2008, 07:04 PM
Amazing place .. I love it soo much in spite of I didn't visited it yet.

I hope for going there one day Insha'allah :sunny:.
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islamirama
01-26-2008, 07:10 PM
Nice picture, design looks similar to nawbi masjid, maybe copied after that?
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Whatsthepoint
01-26-2008, 07:11 PM
I've been there, it's amazing.
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Fishman
01-26-2008, 11:28 PM
:sl:
I wonder if the Church would consider a trade? The Hiaga Sofia for the Great Mosque of Cordoba?
:w:
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ABWAN
01-27-2008, 07:13 AM
I remember seeing this amazing mosque in Islam-an empire of faith documentary. There are some more in Iran and Turkey. Here is the link to the video online if anyone is interested : http://www.stage6.com/user/Warrior_S...c-Architecture
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north_malaysian
01-27-2008, 10:30 AM
It's no longer a mosque...:cry:

Can we trade the mosque with hagia sophia...
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Amadeus85
01-27-2008, 03:28 PM
No wonder that it is no longer a mosque, as it was built on the remains on church destroyed by arabs.
BTW hagia Sophia was a church too if im not wrong.
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glo
01-27-2008, 04:00 PM
I didn't realise that the mosque of Cordoba wasn't actually used as a mosque anymore ...
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
01-27-2008, 04:10 PM
Yeap its not, but it still has Qur'anic inscriptions in the mosque. It's still one of my favorites...MashaAllah. InshaAllah I'd like to go see it too =]
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Woodrow
01-27-2008, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I didn't realise that the mosque of Cordoba wasn't actually used as a mosque anymore ...
I recall reading someplace recently that there are plans in the works for it to be used as a Mosque again. I'll try to to recall where I read that. But, it may take a few days. I'm a slow thinker.
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Amadeus85
01-27-2008, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I recall reading someplace recently that there are plans in the works for it to be used as a Mosque again. I'll try to to recall where I read that. But, it may take a few days. I'm a slow thinker.
Muslims in Cordoba asked for this, but Cordoba's bishop refused to let muslims in Cordoba's catedra. So I dont think that it's gonna happen.
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Amadeus85
01-27-2008, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I didn't realise that the mosque of Cordoba wasn't actually used as a mosque anymore ...
It is a catholic cathedra since about 500 years. After muslims were expelled from Spain.
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- Qatada -
01-27-2008, 08:32 PM
:salamext:


More pics here:


http://www.muslimphotos.net/gallery/index.php?cat=17


Quotations on Islamic civilization in Spain


http://www.muslimheritage.com/topics...?ArticleID=262



Some really useful links there :)
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Woodrow
01-27-2008, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I recall reading someplace recently that there are plans in the works for it to be used as a Mosque again. I'll try to to recall where I read that. But, it may take a few days. I'm a slow thinker.
After Reading Aaron's Post I realized I was refering to what he mentioned. Here is an update that shows a little about the status of it today:


The Great (Ecumenic) Mosque of Cordoba?
Published January 1, 2007 History , Religion

The Great Mosque of Cordoba can be seen as a symbol of the many layers of Spanish history and of all the peoples that carved this nation. After the Muslim conquest of the Spanish kingdoms, Abderraman I ordered the construction of a mosque on the site of a Visigothic church (which was itself built over a Roman temple). When Cordoba fell back into Christian possession in the thirteenth century, it was turned back into a church.

Earlier this week, the president of the Islamic Association of Spain, Mansur Escudero, wrote a letter to Pope Benedict XVI requesting that Muslims be allowed to pray in front of the mihrab* of the great mosque, alongside Catholics. Escudero alleged that the shared use of the building would help bridge relations between the two groups and would follow the example set by the recent visit by the pope to the Hagia Sophia in Turkey. The bishop of Cordoba quickly issued a press release denying the request saying it would only cause “confusion” among the faithful. His exact words are interesting: “sólo generaría confusión en los fieles, dando pie al indiferentismo religioso”.

What does he mean by “indiferentismo religioso”? That people wouldn’t be able to tell the two religions apart? Well, maybe stressing the things we have in common wouldn’t be so bad. But god-forbid we make a muslim seem less alien to a christian… That would be too revolutionary.
I think the Church lost a great PR moment here. The Great Mosque of Cordoba is mostly a tourist site these days. Hundreds of thousands of tourists visit it every year. Catholics don’t find it a practical place in which to do their worship. That role is played by more local parish churches. Allowing the Mosque of Cordoba to be used as an ecumenic temple would be mostly a public-relations effort that would probably disturb few Catholics and fit well with all the efforts of interfaith dialogue pioneered by the late Pope John Paul II.

When I first moved to Canada, I was surprised to find that the local Catholic church shared the building with a Protestant church. One could go to mass at 9 AM or attend a Protestant service at 11:30. Martin Luther and Jean Calvin probably turned in their tombs, but I thought it was great. It shows respect towards each other and reminds us that we have more uniting us than we do separating us.

As a Spanish tourist said when asked if Muslims should be allowed to pray in the building, “Es de sentido común, es la mezquita de Córdoba”. A couple from Valencia added that after all, the Muslims also have the right to pray.

Source: http://guerson.wordpress.com/2007/01...ue-of-cordoba/
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Amadeus85
01-27-2008, 08:57 PM
So far interfaith dialogue didnt reach so far :) Im sure that muslims would never allow christians to pray in a mosque.
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glo
01-27-2008, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
So far interfaith dialogue didnt reach so far :) Im sure that muslims would never allow christians to pray in a mosque.
That's an interesting point ...
Yes, I cannot imagine that Christian prayer (which equals shirk in Islamic view) would be permitted in any mosque ... although I would love to hear if I am mistaken. :)
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- Qatada -
01-27-2008, 09:09 PM
Maybe this clarifies that:


This tolerance manifests itself very clearly in the conduct of the Prophet, in his dealings with the people of the book, whether Christians or Jews. The Prophet used to visit them, treat them kindly and with respect, console their sick and deal with them in terms of "live and let live."


Ibn Ishaq in his Sirah (biography of the Prophet) stated: 'When the delegation of Najrani Christians came to the Prophet at Madinah, they entered his mosque in the afternoon to meet him. It was their prayer time, so they began to perform their prayer in the mosque. Some Muslims were about to prevent them from doing so, but the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Let them pray.", So they faced eastward and performed their prayer.'


Based on the preceding incident, Ibn al-Qayyim, a mujtahid scholar, put up a sign in front of the mosque reading "Admission granted to people of the book that the people of the book could perform their prayers in the presence of Muslims was evidently clear to him.

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...Misconceptions
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Woodrow
01-27-2008, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by - Qatada -
Maybe this clarifies that:


This tolerance manifests itself very clearly in the conduct of the Prophet, in his dealings with the people of the book, whether Christians or Jews. The Prophet used to visit them, treat them kindly and with respect, console their sick and deal with them in terms of "live and let live."


Ibn Ishaq in his Sirah (biography of the Prophet) stated: 'When the delegation of Najrani Christians came to the Prophet at Madinah, they entered his mosque in the afternoon to meet him. It was their prayer time, so they began to perform their prayer in the mosque. Some Muslims were about to prevent them from doing so, but the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Let them pray.", So they faced eastward and performed their prayer.'


Based on the preceding incident, Ibn al-Qayyim, a mujtahid scholar, put up a sign in front of the mosque reading "Admission granted to people of the book that the people of the book could perform their prayers in the presence of Muslims was evidently clear to him.

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...Misconceptions
:sl:

I know a Methodist Curch that allowed Muslims to use it until they had a Mosque. When I was in Morocco I knew of Christians that used to pray in the Mosque in Sidi Slimane.

I can not think of any reason that a Christian could not pray in a Mosque, of course I doubt if any would be permitted to put up pictures, Icons or Statues
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Amadeus85
01-27-2008, 09:28 PM
The cathedra in Cordoba is a sensitive issue especially for spanish catholics. Of course the bishops of Spain and Pope would do what they think is right in their opinion.
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truemuslim
01-27-2008, 09:30 PM
...wow...its so beautiful...

WHA ITS NOT A MASJID NOMORE?! it seriously lost its beauty now...i cant help it i swear..
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anatolian
01-27-2008, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by glo
That's an interesting point ...
Yes, I cannot imagine that Christian prayer (which equals shirk in Islamic view) would be permitted in any mosque ... although I would love to hear if I am mistaken. :)
Salam glo.The Pope prayed in the Sultan Ahmed Mosque in İstanbul at his last visit.
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north_malaysian
01-28-2008, 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by glo
That's an interesting point ...
Yes, I cannot imagine that Christian prayer (which equals shirk in Islamic view) would be permitted in any mosque ... although I would love to hear if I am mistaken. :)


The Pope faces Mecca to pray alongside Turkey's Grand Mufti, Mustafa Cagrici, at the Blue Mosque. Prhotograph (Patrick Herzog/EPA/Pool)
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Amadeus85
01-28-2008, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Salam glo.The Pope prayed in the Sultan Ahmed Mosque in İstanbul at his last visit.
Pope Benedict XVI said that he just turned his minds to meditation, not pray.
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Jayda
01-28-2008, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Salam glo.The Pope prayed in the Sultan Ahmed Mosque in İstanbul at his last visit.
hola,

it was a moment of silent reflection... not a prayer. the Holy Father said so, Catholics would recognize this since he did not cross himself (which is what we do when we pray).

regarding the issue of hagia sofia... hagia sofia is not a Church, it is desconsecrated (no longer dedicated to God)... it is just a building, a very beautiful building, but no more sacred than a museum. it is not a Church or a Cathedral anymore... nor will it be until it is reconsecrated if that should ever happen.

the Cathedral of the Assumption of the Virgin is a Cathedral, not a mosque... it is sacrilege for non Catholics to have a permanent place of worship on consecrated space. it is not allowable to break religious law in order to appeal to secular standards like multiculturalism, nor would reciprocity (like allowing hagia sofia to be reconsecrated) make it allowable.

i do not think it is wise to dwell on the past...

que Dios te bendiga
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Fishman
01-28-2008, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
the Cathedral of the Assumption of the Virgin is a Cathedral, not a mosque... it is sacrilege for non Catholics to have a permanent place of worship on consecrated space. it is not allowable to break religious law in order to appeal to secular standards like multiculturalism, nor would reciprocity (like allowing hagia sofia to be reconsecrated) make it allowable.
:sl:
So you mean to say that a Muslim can return a converted Church to Christianity, but a Christian can never return a converted Mosque to Islam, or even acknowledge the fact that Muslims built it by offering part of it as a Mosque? That isn't really very fair, is it?
:w:
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Jayda
01-28-2008, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
So you mean to say that a Muslim can return a converted Church to Christianity, but a Christian can never return a converted Mosque to Islam, or even acknowledge the fact that Muslims built it by offering part of it as a Mosque?
hola

i could not imagine a circumstance in which muslims would willingly return a former Church building to the Church, in the event such a thing happened the building would need to be reconsecrated... that would make it a Church again, and that would allow worship, sacrements to be performed and services offered.

on the flip side, a Church building must be deconsecrated before it can be used for a non Catholic (called 'profane') purpose. after it is deconsecrated the fate of the Church building (no longer a Church) is up to the owner. so it is possible for a former Church building to become a mosque, ice cream store or apartment building. deconsecrated Churches cannot be used for Church services, worship, sacrements et cetera.

there is no circumstance in which a consecrated Church can be used for a non Catholic (profane) purpose. nor is there any circumstance in which sacrements could be offered in a deconsecrated space. because of this there is no circumstance in which you would see Mass offered alongside Salat prayers, in a designated sacred building, ever.

it may be possible to do what amounts to a 'trade' through the deconsecration of the Cathedral of the Assumption of the Virgin and the consecration of Hagia Sofia... but i could not imagine that any bishop would ever elect to do such a thing. it is certainly impossible to share a sacred space... even if by invitation of the muslims to share hagia sophia.

here is a link to the relevant Canon law.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4H.HTM

That isn't really very fair, is it?
:w:
fairness, like 'multiculturalism' is a secular moral... we have Canon laws and morals which sometimes conflict with these secular beliefs. our beliefs against homosexuality are one example, this issue of 'sharing' a consecrated space is another issue.

in this instance i see it is the peculiar scenario of a muslim inviting us to share a cathedral against our religious laws... and unnecessarily opening up old wounds. i find that very inappropriate, they should not have made such a request.

que Dios te bendiga
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mariam.
01-28-2008, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Pope Benedict XVI said that he just turned his minds to meditation, not pray.
SO!!

I think brother Qatada post you a hadith did you read it?

Ibn Ishaq in his Sirah (biography of the Prophet) stated: 'When the delegation of Najrani Christians came to the Prophet at Madinah, they entered his mosque in the afternoon to meet him. It was their prayer time, so they began to perform their prayer in the mosque. Some Muslims were about to prevent them from doing so, but the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Let them pray.", So they faced eastward and performed their prayer.'
If yes .. then I think you who don't accept to pray in a mosque not us who forbid you.
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anatolian
01-29-2008, 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola,

it was a moment of silent reflection... not a prayer. the Holy Father said so, Catholics would recognize this since he did not cross himself (which is what we do when we pray).
Oh Ok, I understand but then he fooled us LOL.The Mufti asked him to pray and we all thought that he prayed.
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crayon
01-29-2008, 03:55 PM
I actually didn't know that Christians could also pray in a mosque. That's so cool.
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Jayda
01-29-2008, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Oh Ok, I understand but then he fooled us LOL.The Mufti asked him to pray and we all thought that he prayed.
hola,

in Catholicism a prayer is formal, you begin by crossing yourself and saying 'in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit' and then you say the prayer and then you repeat crossing yourself and saying that part. like when the previous Holy Father kissed the quran as a sign of thanks for the gift, this has been misinterpreted to include religious significance that did not exist.

it should also be noted that it is okay for Catholics to say personal prayers anywhere... and it is allowable for non Catholics to say personal prayers in Churches. but those kinds of prayers are like what you call 'dua,' actual rites and services... like salat prayers and khutbahs and things of this nature, or to consider a Catholic Church something else are impermissable in the Church.

que Dios te bendiga
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anatolian
01-30-2008, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
it should also be noted that it is okay for Catholics to say personal prayers anywhere...
Ok Jayda thanks for the information.So was that a personal prayer which Pope did or was it just a silence, or a meditation?
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Jayda
01-31-2008, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Ok Jayda thanks for the information.So was that a personal prayer which Pope did or was it just a silence, or a meditation?
hola anatolian,

it was just silent meditation. all prayers, whether they are personal or ritual begin and end by crossing ourselves.

que Dios te bendiga
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Whatsthepoint
01-31-2008, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by Jayda
hola anatolian,

it was just silent meditation. all prayers, whether they are personal or ritual begin and end by crossing ourselves.

que Dios te bendiga
Why do you think he decided to meditate instead of praying, evethough he is allowed to do the latter in a mosque?
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Jayda
02-01-2008, 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Why do you think he decided to meditate instead of praying, evethough he is allowed to do the latter in a mosque?

hola Whatsthepoint,

i do not know, only he can answer for the reasons he does things. i imagine that he did not find it an appropriate time, reason, place or occasion to pray. why he felt that way is not something i can answer... i probably would not have prayed, i would feel tremendously out of place praying in a mosque...

besides, there is much to meditate on, especially considering the purpose of his visit, meeting with the ecumenical patriarch... the Holy Father is the first Roman Catholic bishop to stand in hagia sophia since the cardinal left the excommunication for the patriarch 1000 years ago. that is a big deal...

que Dios te bendiga
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