Turkey: Plan to lift ban on head scarves

[Roasted Cashew]

STANBUL, Turkey - Turkey's ruling party agreed with an opposition party Monday to lift a decades-old ban on Islamic head scarves in universities of the mainly Muslim but secular nation.
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Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's ruling party and the Nationalist Action Party said in a joint statement that the two parties agreed to make changes in the constitution and the Higher Education Law to allow female students wearing head scarves into universities.

A constitutional change would need a two-thirds majority in the 550-seat assembly. The two parties have more than enough legislators.

Wearing of head scarves in universities was first banned shortly after a military coup in 1980 but implementation of the ban has varied over the years.

Erdogan, who is a devout Muslim, vowed to end the ban during his election campaign last summer. He scored a resounding victory against the secularist opposition.

The staunchly secularist Republican People's Party has repeatedly said lifting the ban would harm the nation's secular traditions.

The Republican's deputy chair, Onur Oymen, citing an earlier decision by the Constitutional Court on the ban, said the constitutional amendments planned by the ruling and nationalist parties would not be enough to allow scarf-clad students into universities.

When Erdogan first proposed Abdullah Gul, an observant Muslim, for president in April, the military issued a statement that hinted at intervention.

The ensuing crisis forced Erdogan to call an early general election. The ruling party's landslide victory resurrected Gul's presidential bid and Parliament voted him into the post in August.

Secularists unsuccessfully opposed Gul's candidacy partly because his wife wears a head scarf. She challenged Turkey's head scarf ban at the European Court of Human Rights — after being barred from university in 1998 — only to withdraw her complaint when her husband became foreign minister.

Source:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080128/...head_scarf_ban

[krypton6]

Erdogan is the only smart turk in turkey, and his muslim! He never gave up on his religion, instead he send his girls to america to study there instead of staying in turkey and taking off their hijab.

He doesnt even like america, but he has to like them in order to stay in power.
Turkey is a millitary regime, and the military choses the leader of their country, not actually the people.

[MTAFFI]

good news :)

[Muezzin]

What's weird is that, when Turkey wanted to become part of the EU, certain sections of its government pointed at things like the headscarf ban to show how 'progressive' they were being.

The irony is that such measures arguably contravene the right to freedom of religion under the EU.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

Oh well. Good news. :)

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[Whatsthepoint]

I like it. No person should be discriminated on grounds of religion, that is or should be one of the main points of secularism.
I hope Turkey continues its secular path in a way that neither dicriminates neither favours a particular religion.

Is the headscarf still banned in the rest of the public places?

[Amadeus85]

If I was Turk I would be happy about it. Religion is the core of every nation an wise nations support their religion (like nowadays Turks under Erdogan islamists) and stupid people still fight with their religion (like most od european politics).

[AvarAllahNoor]

I like it. No person should be discriminated on grounds of religion, that is or should be one of the main points of secularism.
I hope Turkey continues its secular path in a way that neither dicriminates neither favours a particular religion.

Is the headscarf still banned in the rest of the public places?

Yeah, like Turbans for the Sikhs in France, and head scarfs for Muslims.

[anatolian]

Yes good news..

The head scarf called also turban here is still not allowed in the public places but I think the procces is geting better..

[Roasted Cashew]

Yeah, like Turbans for the Sikhs in France, and head scarfs for Muslims.

Good Point. I just wonder why France choose to ban them. I mean even if it was something cultural what they disagreed with, I would understand but not allowing someone to Practice their religion doesn't sound that great at all to me.

[crayon]

Great news. They shouldn't have been banned in the first place of course, but it's good to see that they're correcting their mistakes now.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Good Point. I just wonder why France choose to ban them. I mean even if it was something cultural what they disagreed with, I would understand but not allowing someone to Practice their religion doesn't sound that great at all to me.

Well they say it's to do with religious symbols.

Sarkozy was in india last week and indian primeminster was forced to ask him about why turbans are banned, (he had to ask, he wears one too) and Sarkozy said he'd look into it. If any changes are planned, he'd have to make sure it caters for both Sikhs and Muslims, because favouring one over the other, well it leads to conflict.

See what happens....

[krypton6]

Yes good news..

The head scarf called also turban here is still not allowed in the public places but I think the procces is geting better..

If your cut with it on in public, and you refuse to take it off what will they do, wipe it off your head regardless of what you say?

[Aaliyah~]

this indeed is good new.
otherwise unfortunately to appear mor pregressive & secular i feel Turkey as a nation is denouncing its Islamic roots...

[abdil han]

salam all,
as a Turk,im very happy about these meetings which is still going on by AKP n the MHP(opposition party,known as turkic nationalists),i hope it will be solved soon but CHP(social party) is threathen them to gather people on the streets for protests,they say AKp is trying to change the current regime and army is very sensitive in this manner,,,

but another bad point is ,not certain yet but they will allow hijab only at universities,not everywhere...

i hope ''freedom of hijab '' would come soon...

wassalam

[Amadeus85]

Well they say it's to do with religious symbols.

Sarkozy was in india last week and indian primeminster was forced to ask him about why turbans are banned, (he had to ask, he wears one too) and Sarkozy said he'd look into it. If any changes are planned, he'd have to make sure it caters for both Sikhs and Muslims, because favouring one over the other, well it leads to conflict.

See what happens....

As far as I know french elites, their anti religious attitude wont change soon. It began about 200 years ago and I dont know when it can change.

[Fishman]

Yeah, like Turbans for the Sikhs in France, and head scarfs for Muslims.

:sl:
What do the French Sikhs do then? Wear a hat or a bandana or something?
:w:

[AvarAllahNoor]

:sl:
What do the French Sikhs do then? Wear a hat or a bandana or something?
:w:

Hat? No! If you have Kesh (Unshorn hair) you wear a turban, but those that refuse to take it off, have been tutored in another school. A Sikh couple are looking to manage a Sikh school, with backing from Sikh council. See what happens.

[snakelegs]

good for turkey! i don't think allowing people to practice their relgion goes against secularism one bit.

[yigiter187]

good for turkey! i don't think allowing people to practice their relgion goes against secularism one bit.

secularism is understood very different in our country unfortunately...:'(

but the situation will be better...

[anatolian]

If your cut with it on in public, and you refuse to take it off what will they do, wipe it off your head regardless of what you say?

They do not let the women to come in with hijab at first..I haven't heard an example of such a thing what you said but probably they would not wipe it off but force the woman to leave the borders of that puplic place.

[Whatsthepoint]

Turkish top court annuls headscarf law

Turkey's Constitutional Court annulled the bill proposing to lift the headscarf ban saying it is an attempt to change nonamendable articles of the Turkish Constitution, the court said in a statement on Thursday.


The Chairman of the Court said the details of the decision will be included in the reasoning.

The decision dealt a big blow to the government of the Islamist-rooted AKP, which is under pressure of a closure case. Turkey's army chief said everybody should respect court decisions.

"The law of February 9th making constitutional amendments to lift a ban on headscarf at universities has been cancelled based on the constitution's articles no. 2, 4 and 148. The execution of the law has also been stopped", said the Constitution Court in a short statement on Thursday.

Nine members voted in favor of the cancellation of the law and two voted against, including court chairman Hasim Kilic, TV channels and state-run Anatolian Agency reported.



The Court decided to announce its decision in a short statement in order to end the speculations, and the details of the ruling will be included in the reasoning, Kilic said Thursday. He added the reasoning will be released "as soon as possible."



"The speculations made on our Court in the recent months saddened us and therefore we decided to announce the ruling in such way... So we are not going to give any information on the details of the ruling until the reasoning released because of speculations about our members," he told reporters after leaving the court.



Kilic declined to comment possible fallout of the headscarf decision on the closure case against the ruling AKP.

The case is seen as a proxy in the closure case filed against the ruling AKP in March in which the chief prosecutor cited this law as an evidence to close down the party.

Article 2 of the constitution describes Turkey as a "secular and democratic Republic," and Article 4 says the first three articles cannot be amended or even proposed to be amended. Article 148 defines the mandate of the Constitutional Court.

The law of February 9th amended articles 10 (equality before law) and 42 (right and duty of training and education) of the Constitution.Turkey's ruling AKP, with the backing of the nationalist MHP, had passed the bill amending the constitution to lift the headscarf ban in universities in February. Public opinion is divided over the issue and the main opposition CHP and the leftist DSP had challenged the bill in the Constitutional Court.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/t...d=231&sz=20773

[Güven]

It Was Too Good To be True
THose FOOLISH PEOPLE CHP AND THE Millitary And The Whole Westernization Voters
Are Against Islam AAAAH It makes me Soo ANGRY

[Whatsthepoint]

It Was Too Good To be True
THose FOOLISH PEOPLE CHP AND THE Millitary And The Whole Westernization Voters
Are Against Islam AAAAH It makes me Soo ANGRY

I want Turkey to remain secular, however I think women should to be allowed to wear whathever they want, let it be tight T-shirts or hijab.

[Güven]

Yes I Want THat Tooo But Thats Impossible With Those Foolish People Out There :(

[snakelegs]

pathetic - turkey's militant secularism is like a religion in itself.

[Fishman]

pathetic - turkey's militant secularism is like a religion in itself.

:sl:
It's like Imperial Japan: ultra-nationalistic but at the same time trying to destroy its own traditions in favour of a supposedly more 'modern' western lifestyle.

What I don't understand is why the title of 'Caliph' has been unclaimed for so long. Surely somebody would have tried to resurrect it by now? This is when we can laugh at the HTs: they constantly bang on about the Caliphate, but in reality its right under their noses...


Perhaps people have the false idea that the Caliph must directly rule all Muslims through a single pan-Islamic state? I don't think that's ever been true.
:w:

[Güven]

^^Yeah i dont understand that too
BUt WHo deserveS To be The Caliph Who Has the most power and Faith ?

[Fishman]

^^Yeah i dont understand that too
BUt WHo deserveS To be The Caliph Who Has the most power and Faith ?

:sl:
Power and faith don't often mix. Give the best humanitarian the dictatorship of the world and he'll end up a tyrant...
:w:

[Suomipoika]

I want Turkey to remain secular, however I think women should to be allowed to wear whathever they want, let it be tight T-shirts or hijab.

The problem is, that if it would be up to the hijab side, there wouldnt be anyother clothing than hijabs (or other muslim scarfs) on women (and all the limiting of freedoms of the seculars would be justified by calling that it is an islamic country, and no one would be calling it pathetic because it was based so purely on religion), so I can understand easily why the secularists want to fight so hard on this. In theory I agree with you, but I cant really fault the turkish seculars, considering how much they have to lose and how little anyone would really care if they did.

[Malaikah]

The problem is, that if it would be up to the hijab side, there wouldnt be anyother clothing than hijabs (or other muslim scarfs) on women

What on earth...? Do you realise you just said something about women wearing nothing but a head scarf, i.e. the rest of them in unclothed?:?

That paragraph really did not make any sense.

[Suomipoika]

What on earth...? Do you realise you just said something about women wearing nothing but a head scarf, i.e. the rest of them in unclothed?:?

That paragraph really did not make any sense.

Well, english isnt my first language, what I mean anyway is that there wont be women without hijabs in t-shirts if the hijab side gets to choose.

[Malaikah]

I doubt it. I've never heard anything about any Turkish party trying to make hijab compulsory.

[arabianprincess]

well thats grttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt :D:) im happpppy for em.. congrats :D

[Malaikah]

:sl:

lol sis you're a little behind the times... that was a while ago and just recently the ban has been put back in place. :(

[afzalaung]

the situation's ridiculous.

[arabianprincess]

hmmmm i didnt know that... LOL .. well inshallah everythin would work out inshallah ...

[Whatsthepoint]

I doubt it. I've never heard anything about any Turkish party trying to make hijab compulsory.

I don't think there will ever be one. The first or second article of the turkish constitution, I'm not sure which one, says Turkey is a secular state and the first three articles can neither be changed nor ammended.

[Muezzin]

Well, english isnt my first language, what I mean anyway is that there wont be women without hijabs in t-shirts if the hijab side gets to choose.

Er... not really.

Nobody is saying that wearing a headscarf should be made compulsory by law. In my view, that's just as wrong as banning it by law.

Still, at least this shows secularism is just as prone to paranoiac abuse as religion.

[Suomipoika]

Er... not really.

Nobody is saying that wearing a headscarf should be made compulsory by law. In my view, that's just as wrong as banning it by law.

Still, at least this shows secularism is just as prone to paranoiac abuse as religion.

Nobody is saying that because it would be a political suicide. I dont really believe anymore that a religious party wouldnt try to change the laws and base them on religion if they had a way to get away with it. Its already bad enough sign that they go ahead and try to break the constitution as the ruling party.

There is just so much at stage and so many bad examples on the neighbourhood of what happens when the religious parties do get to rule with the power to make laws based on religion. Add to that we see regularly people justifying and cheering such laws that limit freedoms, lashes to person who meets non-family member of opposite sex, punishments for sexual minorities, death penalty for those who choose to not believe anymore. Turkey isnt perfect (no country really is), but I wouldnt be willing to risk it if I was Turkish secular. Personally Im starting to think the separation of state and religion like in Turkey or France is the way to go.

On a sidenote, what is it actually? A dresscode in goverment buildings. Such horrid and paranoid abuse of power is done by virtually every country in the world.

[barrio79]

Nobody is saying that wearing a headscarf should be made compulsory by law. It must be said that banning it by law is not quite right .

[AvarAllahNoor]

It should be the choice of the individual.

I'd not be pleased to be told the Turban is banned. It's the choice of the person. If they want to wear a Hijab or not.

[Muezzin]

Nobody is saying that because it would be a political suicide. I dont really believe anymore that a religious party wouldnt try to change the laws and base them on religion if they had a way to get away with it. Its already bad enough sign that they go ahead and try to break the constitution as the ruling party.

Yes, breaking the constitution is wrong. If the courts have decided that lifting a headscarf ban would be unconstitutional, so be it.

Still, the banning of religious symbols/religious dress in general is a silly concept that is at odds with democratic freedoms. It's a shame that the Turkish constitution includes this concept.

There is just so much at stage and so many bad examples on the neighbourhood of what happens when the religious parties do get to rule with the power to make laws based on religion. Add to that we see regularly people justifying and cheering such laws that limit freedoms, lashes to person who meets non-family member of opposite sex, punishments for sexual minorities, death penalty for those who choose to not believe anymore.

Nobody is asking for all that. Simply the right for a woman to wear what she wills. It's ironic that this is not allowed considering Turkey's Muslim majority. In the UK for instance, women are rightly allowed to wear whatever they want (as long as they're not indecently exposing themselves, naturally).

Turkey isnt perfect (no country really is), but I wouldnt be willing to risk it if I was Turkish secular. Personally Im starting to think the separation of state and religion like in Turkey or France is the way to go.

I disagree. In this case, isn't a ban on headscarves in public places such as universities a curtailment of freedom of expression?

Also, in France, it's not just Muslim headscarves, but also Sikh turbans. What is the justification for this? That some people take offence to it? That people who wear such things 'don't fit in'? Revealingly, people in France are allowed to wear small crucifixes, which show that secularism is not truly the motive for such measures.

Being the cynical person I am, I'm willing to bet it's simply bitterness on the part of a portion of secularists - 'if you give these religious people an inch, they'll take a mile' sort of thing. Not all secularists are like this, obviously. It's just that's what appears to be the motive in these kinds of things rather than some sort of altruism.

On a sidenote, what is it actually? A dresscode in goverment buildings.

Universties.

Such horrid and paranoid abuse of power is done by virtually every country in the world.

Not really. A woman or a man can wear what he or she likes in universities in most countries. Sometimes, there are health and safety issues in the workplace, but these tend to only affect employees, not members of the general public.

I'm very glad the UK and the US for that matter do not make it illegal to wear a headscarf or a turban in public.

[sevgi]

dno what the last few posts are sayn but,,,

u guys do know that the ban is bak as of last friday..or was it thurs...?

grrr..either way...im very upset...

and we shud all pray.

w/s

[^..sTr!vEr..^]

yeah even im in a state of shock about the ban on hijab
n yeah true said sis sumeeyye we shud pray

[rpwelton]

What is the current status of the hijab ban in Turkey, especially in more religious areas such as Ankara?

Is Turkey a recommended country for a Muslim to move to?

[sevgi]

What is the current status of the hijab ban in Turkey, especially in more religious areas such as Ankara?

Is Turkey a recommended country for a Muslim to move to?

Same old. No hijab in official government establishments, ie, universities, hospitals etc. There is no regional discrepency.

90 something % of Turkey is muslim. Regardless of what you hear on tv, it is an insanely islamic country. But I must admit, that does depend on where you go. You have your non-practising turkish muslims and then your practising ones. Simple really. You hear the adhan bellow through all of Turkey at prayer times, there is atleast one mosque on almost every street throughout the country. You must keep in mind that this is a country with an official headcount of 75million. I mean....you have all sorts of people living thoughout Turkey. The government cannot possibly represent the whole nation.

Hope that wasn't too off track.

Peace.

[anatolian]

What is the current status of the hijab ban in Turkey, especially in more religious areas such as Ankara?

Many universities don't make it a problem generally in practice-at least my university didn't make, though I don't know what they do nowadays- but it is still banned in the other public places.

By the way Ankara is not count a religious area of Turkey.There are more religious areas but the implementation doesn't change.

Is Turkey a recommended country for a Muslim to move to?

It depends on what you expact from a country.. :)