Thinking of Becoming An Imam but need some answers about God

[AntiKarateKid]

Hey guys. I am considering becoming an Imam and have embarked on a deep inquiry into my beliefs before I make the commitment. However, I believe I have confused myself. I was talking to my teacher during my philosophy class and he inquired as to why I was assuming that God is a fact. As a Muslim I thought this question was absurd and pointed him to the miracles of the prophets, the signs in creation etc... but he insisted that I was ASSUMING that there was a God and claimed that I am making a logical fallacy by assuming in the first place that there is a God. How do I counter this? I have always taken it as a fact...

[AntiKarateKid]

Sorry for the post brothers and sisters but this question is really distressing me because I percieved myself to be stronger than this.


1. I was just thinking, in the Lecture he was giving us, my teacher stated that there is always only one option that is right.
2. In this case there are two options, God or no God and the evidence I have seen so far points overwhelmingly to God.
3. The person who denies the clear proofs is in willful ignorance.
4. Thus I can assume that there is God and that basically I am right, and am guided with truth, while he is wrong and outside of God's mercy.

Am I right? Is this reasonable?

[جوري]

:sl:
I want you to read this article in full all 47 pages before you engage with another argument

http://www.iscid.org/papers/Mullan_P...ell_112302.pdf

once you are done with it, pls PM me and I'll device an approach for your argument.

But please do read it in full..
as they say 'God is in the details'

:w:

[AntiKarateKid]

Thanks alot for the advice sis! TO be honest with you, this problem was really bugging me. Btw I have seen your debates with the atheists and tried to send you a pm to congratulate some of your responses buuut im not at 50 posts yet :p.

I have in fact read that paper when you posted it before and the sheer impossibility of this happening without a creator is evident to me. But I will reread it again. As for my logic, do you think I am right?

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[جوري]

of course I think you are right, I just think we have a different approach.
for instance in the face of overwhelming evidence you conclude, one thing
"All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best. Occam's razor
Simplest conclusion being God.. the burden of proof will have to fall on his shoulders then to come up with a plausible and logical solution for all things in existence.. Key is really you can't use scriptures as evidence of God... you have to use logic. If he says God of the gap, you ask him what he proposes as an alternative? and get down with a specific example.. using examples from the paper I gave you, just the mere random assembly of base pairs, ask him to walk you through how he thinks it all came to be from simplest to most complex.
when it comes down to it, you'll find both grounds are equally matched, that is belief and disbelief.. something has to be a tip off that is where you as individual look to holy books for answers.. but I can gurantee wouldn't matter to an atheist as they work extra hard at being who they are, and it really shouldn't matter to you in the end. They are the contrast by which the rest of us live our lives...

:w:

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you AntiKarateKid;
People have been trying to prove the existance of God for thousands of years. I Could try and prove the existence of God using the Bible, but as you do not believe the Bible to be true, then my proof would not convince you. In the same way if your teacher has no faith then no holy book will convince him that God exists.

More than anything I believe that holy scriptures are there to change me, it is in the hands of God to change others. God chooses whom he wills, and yes he needs a little help from us too.

Pray for your teacher, pray for guidance for yourself also, what we each have is a trust in God or faith, and this is different from absolute proof. If you feel God is leading you towards being an Imam then that is a good place to be.

Over the years I have gone through many doubts, people have asked me many challenging questions which I have no real answers for. Faith demands that you keep your trust in God despite all these problems and doubts.

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

[IceQueen~]

using your intellect wil lead to to believe in God, many a time Allah has stated in the Quran that in the heavens and earth are signs, but there's a condition:

"...for men of understanding"

[UmmSqueakster]

While I am unsure about the varacity of this story, the meaning is none the less quite true:

Imam Abu Hafina (ra) was asked by the khalifa to meet with them and an atheist so Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) could debate with him. They set a time for them to meet up. So the day and time came and left and they kept waiting for Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) until finally he came. Everyone questioned him about his being late and what happened. So he started explaining how there was river that he had to cross….and he was waiting for a boat to come and bring him on the other side of the river.

While he was waiting, the branches and leaves of the tree fell and slowly formed themselves into a boat. And he jumped in that boat crossed the river. Obviously people laughed at this story and the atheist asked him ‘Are you mad enough to believe that a boat was made all by itself?
Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) replied ‘Who is more mad? the one who believed that a boat was created by itself, or you who believes that the entire world is created by itself?’

[AntiKarateKid]

Thanks alot for the support guys! That anecdote you provided about the imam and the atheist made me smile LOL:D. I understand what that we believe men/women of understanding to be abl;e to percieve Alah. But I don't know how to put that in words. They may say that calling theists people of understanding and ahteists men of doubt would be an ad hominem fallacy because we are attempting to discredit their views? I guess my response to this would be that an atheist telling me about the world while denying god is like a physicist explaining chemistry to me with the laws of physics? Or i that a bad analogy? Please don't take these questions as me questioning God but Allah said that our reward will be in proportion to our understanding and I don't think God would be pleased with ignorant worshippers. :blind:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

philosophy teacher?! you mean the teachers who question the existence of existence?!

lol i think your engaging in debates with the wrong people, debates are a horrible way to discover faith anyway.

If you want a firm grounding, then read the quran and lives of the prophets/sahabi's. Nothing will make you firmer !

[AntiKarateKid]

I understand that brother. I also understand that Human reasoning is limited but I can't seen to find the balance. Allah told us to investigate the world, I am wary of what he says but in the same vein shouldn't I believe that I can disprove him using the same "reason" he professes? What is the Balance between reason and religion and are they inseperable?

[AntiKarateKid]

I messed up my analogy there, what I mean was that an atheist explaining the universe without God would be like a physicist explaining physics while denying the possibility of the laws of physics? My previous question still bugs me, is this an ad hominem fallacy?

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


atheists dont know who caused the big bang, if you asked them what caused it - they will say 'i dont know.'


therefore they base they're belief on doubt and they have no answer to that question. We say an All Powerful, Knowing God caused it. This is a better belief than having no answer or belief at all.



Islamic view on Big Bang?

http://dawahtips.blogspot.com/
http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-c.htm


i wont be able to reply now but that might be something to reflect on and maybe even argue.


If they ask who created God - tell them we take Allah as a God because He is uncreated. If he was created He would not be God, and therefore we would not take him as a deity/god - He is perfect and this can be seen in His Names and Attributes - this is why we take Him as our Lord, since His Perfection shows His Lordship over imperfect humans who are dependant. This is our belief, and it is a much more convincing belief than doubt (of the atheists) who have no answer.

Because we cannot see God, it doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. 'Absence of proof is not proof of absence' - as the debate argument goes. There can be someone behind a door and although you can't see him, it isn't proof that he isn't there.

We cannot see emotions physically, but we see their product; tears, smile etc. The hormones in our body (which are physical) cause us to get these feelings, however the feelings cannot be physically seen except through their product i.e. tears, laugh etc. The feelings can only be felt by a person themself, same way with their relationship and belief in God.



And Allah knows best.

[AntiKarateKid]

Thanks for the reply and I completely agree. But my previous question about ad hominem fallacy still stand, can you provide guidance on that issue?

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


it doesn't have to be a ad hominem if you talk generally to the person, so instead of saying 'you' - say 'people' etc. this way it won't be like a personal attack, and since it's explaining the masses of people - then that person can't accuse you of using this.


that's my personal opinion.. if i understand it right.