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MooRocks75
02-01-2008, 11:48 PM
I am about to be disowned for my career choice. either that or being severely beaten/killed. I hope it wont go that far. But please be patient and read. I am very muslim. I pray every single day, and never miss prayer. I read the Quran with the family, and on my own. I have given Alms, and donated to mosques. I have helped two people convert. But all of this gets thrown out the window because of what I want to do.

I was born here in the United States, by Egyptian parents. I am an Arab(Egyptian)-American. Ive lived in Egypt for my KG and Elementry schooling. I am at the end of my senior year. I have decided I want to enlist in the United States Army to be a Medic/Health Care Specialist. Ive introduced them to fellow brothers in the military, and they are nice to them, but, me. I KNOW I want to be in the Military. I think its haram how they can judge me in such a harsh way considering how I live my deen.

Is this fair what they want to do to me?
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AntiKarateKid
02-03-2008, 07:02 PM
It depends on which military you join. Its great to do what you want BUT the Quran also emphasizes loyalty to God over loyalty to country. The US and British armies are striking against Muslims and are the protectors of the Pariah state of Israel which make all Muslims look evil. How can you say that you are a Muslim but fight for the wrong cause? If you want to see action join a Muslim countries army or do work at the ER in a Hospital or a dangerous neighborhood.

This is the reason your parents are so alarmed. You are helping men that are likely to go to Iraq and kill Muslims. You decide what is more important, your CURRENT desires in this world or your religion.
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MooRocks75
02-03-2008, 07:44 PM
http://www.defendamerica.mil/profile...pr011404a.html

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?s...2&archive=true

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/07/ny...=1&oref=slogin

But I know muslims in the US military who did not kill anyone, yet still ae muslims and serve. There are even Imams in the military. But from what you are saying right now, is that based on what I want to do, you as a human will throw away all of my good merits, based on one action, is this correct? That I cant be a muslim AND a soldier?
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wilberhum
02-03-2008, 07:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
It depends on which military you join. Its great to do what you want BUT the Quran also emphasizes loyalty to God over loyalty to country. The US and British armies are striking against Muslims and are the protectors of the Pariah state of Israel which make all Muslims look evil. How can you say that you are a Muslim but fight for the wrong cause?
So if he helped the US get the "Insurgents" that put and detonated the bombs on the 2 handicapped females the other day, that would be banned by the Quran because it helped the US and was fighting against Muslims?
If you want to see action join a Muslim countries army or do work at the ER in a Hospital or a dangerous neighborhood.
da, he needs training to be a Medic/Health Care Specialist. Where/how is he to get this training? I seems you have the cart before the horse.
This is the reason your parents are so alarmed. You are helping men that are likely to go to Iraq and kill Muslims.
Ya, what if he killed an Al-Qaeda member or two. Boy wouldn't that be horrible.
You decide what is more important, your CURRENT desires in this world or your religion.
It seams he would be a credit to his religion. Well, I assume it isn't against Islam to provide health care.
MooRocks75,
What you want to do is honorable. It is what you want to do with your life.

My advise is to do it and do it the best you can.

Also, be aware the AntiKarateKid is a kid. He is probably only a year or two older than you.
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YusufNoor
02-03-2008, 08:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
I am about to be disowned for my career choice. either that or being severely beaten/killed. I hope it wont go that far. But please be patient and read. I am very muslim. I pray every single day, and never miss prayer. I read the Quran with the family, and on my own. I have given Alms, and donated to mosques. I have helped two people convert. But all of this gets thrown out the window because of what I want to do.

I was born here in the United States, by Egyptian parents. I am an Arab(Egyptian)-American. Ive lived in Egypt for my KG and Elementry schooling. I am at the end of my senior year. I have decided I want to enlist in the United States Army to be a Medic/Health Care Specialist. Ive introduced them to fellow brothers in the military, and they are nice to them, but, me. I KNOW I want to be in the Military. I think its haram how they can judge me in such a harsh way considering how I live my deen.

Is this fair what they want to do to me?
:sl:

They are your parents, and if they demand that you do something unIslamic you must not obey them; in other cases you are supposed to obey them. in this case you are probably better off obeying them as it avoids a major fitnah.

some of what AntiKarateKid says is true and some of what wilberhum is true, but neither of them is a parent of yours.

:w:
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MooRocks75
02-03-2008, 08:58 PM
As salaam alikum, cool there is conversing now. Well I have a question, I feel very strongly about this. Like if I dont do this I might be miserable for the rest of my life having not doing it. I dont like the Idea of another person picking what im going to do for the rest of my life, while I cant pick something knowing i will like it and do good.
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wilberhum
02-03-2008, 08:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor
:sl:

They are your parents, and if they demand that you do something unIslamic you must not obey them; in other cases you are supposed to obey them. in this case you are probably better off obeying them as it avoids a major fitnah.

some of what AntiKarateKid says is true and some of what wilberhum is true, but neither of them is a parent of yours.

:w:
If "some of what wilberhum is true", please tell me what parts are not true. :hmm:

One should love, honor, and obey your parents.

But, your life is your life. You are old enough to make decisions for your own life. Your parents need to respect that too.
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جوري
02-03-2008, 09:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
As salaam alikum, cool there is conversing now. Well I have a question, I feel very strongly about this. Like if I dont do this I might be miserable for the rest of my life having not doing it. I dont like the Idea of another person picking what im going to do for the rest of my life, while I cant pick something knowing i will like it and do good.
How will joining the millitary make you happy?
perhaps you can start with that to see if you have a realistic view of what it means to be a soldier, that which you couldn't attain being medic in civilian practice!

:w:
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wilberhum
02-03-2008, 09:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
As salaam alikum, cool there is conversing now. Well I have a question, I feel very strongly about this. Like if I dont do this I might be miserable for the rest of my life having not doing it. I dont like the Idea of another person picking what im going to do for the rest of my life, while I cant pick something knowing i will like it and do good.
I think ignoring a "Life's Wish" would leave you miserable.

My advise is "Go for it".

IMHO if your parents disown you over this, I would question there love.

I am a father of 2 adult girls.
They have done things that have made me angry.
They have disobeyed me.
They have ignored some requests.
But, they have never "not loved" me and I have never "not loved" them.

Love based on any condition, is not love, it is control.

There is absolutely nothing my girls could do that would make me "not love" them and disowning them is beyond my ability to understand.

Well, any way, that's my advise.

Evaluate everyone's advise.

Then make your decision, go for it, and never look back.
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YusufNoor
02-03-2008, 09:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
If "some of what wilberhum is true", please tell me what parts are not true. :hmm:

What you want to do is honorable

One should love, honor, and obey your parents.

But, your life is your life. You are old enough to make decisions for your own life. Your parents need to respect that too.
:sl:

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

from a "patriotic" point of view, "defending your homeland" may seem like an honorable thing but i would never recommend to ANYONE that they join the US military! not even athiests, agnostics, Jews or Christians, let alone a Muslim!

the military here is commanded by politicians who seem not to care one whit about "patriotism" or even "defending your homeland." all they care about is attaining power and staying in power. i remeber the speech the starts the movie Patton where he says, "You don't win a war by dying for your country. You win a war by making the other poor dumb b-a-s-t-a-r-d die for his!"

imho, if you join the military here, then you are a "poor dumb b-a-s-t-a-r-d"; you don't die for your country, you die because of some stupid a$$ politician!:offended:

now imagine an a military machine commanded by either Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Mitt "the Morman Crusader" Romney, the "other Crusader" Huckabee or John "at least i like him, but i think he suffered a little too much in 'Nam" McCain. can you see any of them doing anything honarable?? not to dismiss Ron Paul, but i really don't know enough about him...:eek:

and all that is without mentioning George W Bush!:hmm:

:w:



:w:
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AntiKarateKid
02-03-2008, 09:39 PM
Wilber, I did not say that I am defending al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is an idea. You do not fight an idea by killing the misguided people who believe in it. You fight it through exposing their falsehood. You will kill men and women who have live in turmoil and are doing what they truly think is right in the face of US occupation. They need to be informed of the real Islam and not butchered because of American Interests there. I disagree with this talk about, "if you want to do it, then do it". Actions speak louder than words. You can say that you are a devoted Muslim but when you go out and kill Muslims who need guidance and not death, you are contradicting yourself. I say examine your desires again.
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snakelegs
02-03-2008, 09:48 PM
your parents are threatening you with bodily harm if you choose this career?
no, it is not fair at all.
i think you should be the one to choose, because it is your life, not theirs.
however, i can understand why they are upset. i would be upset too, if my child wanted to join the army. it would be different if the army was about defending the country and not about invading nations that are no military threat to us.
the fact that you are a good muslim, is in a separate compartment and really has nothing to do with this.
can your parents afford to help you get the training to become a medic/health care worker in the civilian sector? maybe a compromise could be worked out - where you would still be helping people/saving lives but not in the army.
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wilberhum
02-03-2008, 10:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid
Wilber, I did not say that I am defending al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is an idea.
Ideas don't kill you. People do!
You do not fight an idea by killing the misguided people who believe in it.
The only thing I care about is the fact they believe they have the right to kill me. Since they want death, I would prefer it be there's.
You fight it through exposing their falsehood. You will kill men and women who have live in turmoil and are doing what they truly think is right in the face of US occupation.
Surely there are those who think they are doing the right thing. Then there are the majority who want to kill anyone whom they consider there enemy. By the way, that is usually fellow Muslims.
They need to be informed of the real Islam and not butchered because of American Interests there.
What? Who is butchering the real Islam? That would be Muslims, right?
I disagree with this talk about, "if you want to do it, then do it".
Me thinks a little "Out of Context" and not exactly what I said.
Actions speak louder than words. You can say that you are a devoted Muslim
What? Can't read? Quick to assume? Don't know what an Agnostic is?
but when you go out and kill Muslims who need guidance and not death,
And how do you give guidance to people who strap mentally disabled women with bombs and blow them up?
you are contradicting yourself.
Well since you don't have a clue about me, and have proven so, you will need to explain that contradiction.
I say examine your desires again.
I desire the kid make moral life choices the help him have a good life.
What is your desire?
I will never understand this concept of, by it's absence, not giving a crap about the lives of non-Muslims.
Then think you have a higher moral ground by saying it is wrong to kill Muslims regardless of the evil they do. :-\
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YusufNoor
02-04-2008, 12:42 AM
originally posted by wilberhum
let alone a Muslim? Another who thinks Muslims are superior. How do you define bigot?
:sl:

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

to wilber,

umm, maybe as one who jumps to conclusions based upon stereotype! of course in this instance meaning YOU!

i don't recommend that ANYONE join the service [nor did i before accepting Islam and as i said in my post], but there ARE special considerations for a Muslim[as there might be for a Quaker for instance]! and this being a Muslim forum with a Muslim asking for advice then by all means any special Muslim requirements should be taking into consideration.

and feel free to point out ANYWHERE where i have claimed Muslims to be superior! or remain ignorant in your own bigotry...

or you could just say oops, i'm sorry!

:w:
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Trumble
02-04-2008, 01:17 AM
It depends on which military you join
No it doesn't. Army medics save lives, not take them; lives of soldiers on their own side, soldiers on the enemy side, and civilians on either or neither side.
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wilberhum
02-04-2008, 01:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by YusufNoor
:sl:

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

to wilber,

umm, maybe as one who jumps to conclusions based upon stereotype! of course in this instance meaning YOU!

i don't recommend that ANYONE join the service [nor did i before accepting Islam and as i said in my post], but there ARE special considerations for a Muslim[as there might be for a Quaker for instance]! and this being a Muslim forum with a Muslim asking for advice then by all means any special Muslim requirements should be taking into consideration.

and feel free to point out ANYWHERE where i have claimed Muslims to be superior! or remain ignorant in your own bigotry...

or you could just say oops, i'm sorry!

:w:
I think
from a "patriotic" point of view, "defending your homeland" may seem like an honorable thing but i would never recommend to ANYONE that they join the US military! not even athiests, agnostics, Jews or Christians, let alone a Muslim!
states you bigotry.

The only thing I'm sorry about is that I gave you a pos rep. :hiding:
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MustafaMc
02-04-2008, 01:36 AM
I personally agree with the advice to not oppose your parents. Joining the US Army in any capacity would be supporting the oppression of Muslims. There is nothing to say that the Army will not renege on the promise to make you a medic and instead make you a "foot soldier".

If you want to be in the medical field, then ask your parents to send you to college to study a medical field. My brother and his wife are both nurses.
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Malaikah
02-04-2008, 01:41 AM
:sl:

What is comes down to is that you will be part of the forces who are unjustly attacking and killing Muslims. How can you ever justify that?

Shaykh: “This is not permissible unless the nation in whose army he is working is not fighting the Muslims.”
Source.

That statement is a confusing because of the two 'not's. It is saying that it is permissible to be a doctor in the non-Muslim army only if the army of that country is not fighting Muslim.

I KNOW I want to be in the Military. I think its haram how they can judge me in such a harsh way considering how I live my deen.
First of all, if you love your deen, then show it by not joining the army that is destroying those who follow your deen!

Secondly, it is none of our business if you love your deen or not, that is in your heart, but joining the army is an outer action, something everyone will see. Whether you like it or not, if is your actions that people are going to judge you on, not what is in your heart [because we don't knwo what is in your heart].

People aren't always judging you, they are judging the action you are doing. You want to do something that is disgusting to the minds of most Muslims and yet you want these Muslims to act like it isn't a big deal?

You really shouldn't be surprise that your parents might disown you. I imagine many, many Muslim parents would do the same.

you as a human will throw away all of my good merits, based on one action, is this correct?
It is a big action. Wouldn't you throw away the good merits of a person who committed murder? You might not be joining the army with the intention to kill, but you will be supporting those who do have hte intention to kill. And that is hardly any better.

That I cant be a muslim AND a soldier?
Maybe you can, but at the very least you will be committing a big sin. Whether what you intend to do is an act of kufr or not, I don't know.
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wilberhum
02-04-2008, 01:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
I personally agree with the advice to not oppose your parents. Joining the US Army in any capacity would be supporting the oppression of Muslims. There is nothing to say that the Army will not renege on the promise to make you a medic and instead make you a "foot soldier".

If you want to be in the medical field, then ask your parents to send you to college to study a medical field. My brother and his wife are both nurses.
Who should fight those people who strap mentally disabled women with bombs and blow them up?
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YusufNoor
02-04-2008, 02:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Who should fight those people who strap mentally disabled women with bombs and blow them up?
:sl:

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

the above is NOT what we are discussing, we were asked whether or not MooRocks75's parents were being fair and discussing their advice.

as far as:

I think
Quote:
from a "patriotic" point of view, "defending your homeland" may seem like an honorable thing but i would never recommend to ANYONE that they join the US military! not even atheists, agnostics, Jews or Christians, let alone a Muslim!

states you bigotry.
i asked:

and feel free to point out ANYWHERE where i have claimed Muslims to be superior! or remain ignorant in your own bigotry...
simply show me the words superior and Muslim in the same sentence, in fact show me the word superior in the post! YOU are doing the assuming here! we are giving the brother advice so that he NOT put himself in a position where he would have to kill innocent people! [again much like a Quaker]

and Malaikah makes another important distinction:

it is permissible to be a doctor in the non-Muslim army only if the army of that country is not fighting Muslim(s).
also, unlike Americans in general or other Religions, in Islam the Parents HAVE some rights on the children and children in MOST situations are REQUIRED to obey their parents.

:w:
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MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 02:16 AM
but there ARE special considerations for a Muslim[as there might be for a Quaker for instance]! and this being a Muslim forum with a Muslim asking for advice then by all means any special Muslim requirements should be taking into consideration.
Do you mean special considerations as in prayer, fasting, halal foods, etc.? Because all of those are allowed and heeded int he service, considering they have around 13 or so Imams in all four branches.
your parents are threatening you with bodily harm if you choose this career?
no, it is not fair at all.
Yes this is one thing which I really dislike about this whole issue too.
Joining the US Army in any capacity would be supporting the oppression of Muslims. There is nothing to say that the Army will not renege on the promise to make you a medic and instead make you a "foot soldier".
First part, Then what is to become of our Fellow muslims blowing up our brothers in Tunis, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Leabnon, Saudi Arabia, and, Turkey???? Why do we not stand up or say anything about them considering theyve killed more of us??? Part two, its something called a contract, and there are legalities that go into this, they cant and dont do that, considering as I said, I know muslims who do support jobs in the military.
If you want to be in the medical field, then ask your parents to send you to college to study a medical field. My brother and his wife are both nurses.
There is the thing, I CAN be in the medical field, but its also that IVe wanted to be in the military. The benifits of joining the US Army FAR outweigh the ones of my joining the Egyptians'.
People aren't always judging you, they are judging the action you are doing. You want to do something that is disgusting to the minds of most Muslims and yet you want these Muslims to act like it isn't a big deal?
Yes but my other actions far outweigh this one. 2 converts > career choice that is SUPPORT.
Maybe you can, but at the very least you will be committing a big sin. Whether what you intend to do is an act of kufr or not, I don't know.
funny thing is this is where I am getting at. There is no proof in the world that this is a sin at all, it is kinda blasphemous to assume that too.

And hold on in a few minutes I will post you stories and pictures of what some of the soldiers do over in Iraq and Afghanistan. I doubt these stories ever get to muslims attentiont hat is why my parents are so bent on my choice.




http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...article5.shtml
Sheikh Al Qaradawi's ruling. A LOT of people agree with this man on many issues, will they turn thier back on him on this one only, just as my parents have?
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MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 02:18 AM
Forgot to add. My parents never listened to thiers, so that means my parents automatically go to hell, correct? or does god not judge people based on thier merits and not your own judgment on me?

and no it isnt fair to threaten to kill me!!!!
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جوري
02-04-2008, 02:26 AM
if you have made up your mind and have all the answers, why do you seek approval here?


:w:
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Malaikah
02-04-2008, 02:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
Forgot to add. My parents never listened to thiers, so that means my parents automatically go to hell, correct? or does god not judge people based on thier merits and not your own judgment on me?
:sl:

No, it doesn't mean they automatically go to hell, it might be that God will forgive them for not listening to their parents because their good deeds out weight their bad deeds, or because they sincerely repented, or for whatever other reason. But their is no guarantee that Allah will forgive them.

and no it isnt fair to threaten to kill me!!!!
Obviously.

Yes but my other actions far outweigh this one. 2 converts > career choice that is SUPPORT.
You don't know that! In fact, that is the kind of attitude that could destroy a person! How do you even know that God has accepted any of your deeds? None of us know. You might do doing all these deeds that you think are good, but God is not accepting any of them for whatever reason (they are not sincere for him, your bad deeds are cancelling out all your good ones etc).

funny thing is this is where I am getting at. There is no proof in the world that this is a sin at all, it is kinda blasphemous to assume that too.
I am not assuming anything, I gave you the ruling of a highly qualified scholar.

My honest advice to you is to go speak to a qualified shaykh who you respect, face to face, and discuss this issue with him and ask for his opinion. You can't and won't find a specific answer to your specific situation on the internet.
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MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 02:30 AM
if you have made up your mind and have all the answers, why do you seek approval here?
Because this is still the issue that scares me. If they repented and all, then why do they want to harm me like this??? Because then we would all lose if such a thing happens. I dont want to be a bad guy to my parents, yet I want love not a controlled path, that I know I will regret.

I havent made up my mind yet although it might sound like it. But You need to listen well to everything I have said.

This whole thing is taking a big toll on me psychologically, and im starting to do bad in school, I cried yesterday, Im so lost. I swear to you, and I pray daily to ge tthis stuff fixed....
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wilberhum
02-04-2008, 02:39 AM
YusufNoor,
You don't get it. You never have and I assume you never will.
That tends to happen to superior people.
[MAD]Mean while back on topic[/MAD]
This kid is in trouble and needs help.
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جوري
02-04-2008, 02:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
Because this is still the issue that scares me.
scares you how?

If they repented and all, then why do they want to harm me like this???
repented for what? mere fact that you are here writing this, speaking ill of people who aren't around to defend their position reflects rather poorly on you, rather than them!

Because then we would all lose if such a thing happens.
lose what, if what happens?

I dont want to be a bad guy to my parents,
seems like you have already made up your mind? I doubt anything, anyone dishes out here that will make you appear less bad or more good to your parents.

yet I want love not a controlled path, that I know I will regret.
then go on your self-appointed path!

I havent made up my mind yet although it might sound like it. But You need to listen well to everything I have said.
I think what you have said is inconsequential to anyone here!
This whole thing is taking a big toll on me psychologically,
seek counseling from a medical professional then!

and im starting to do bad in school,
And now making excuses for bad performance?

I cried yesterday,
crying like a girl would be severely frowned upon in the army..

Im so lost.
Buy a GPS system

I swear to you, and I pray daily to ge tthis stuff fixed....
don't swear to me.. what you do for your own soul is your own business.. God is the only judge..

:w:
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wilberhum
02-04-2008, 02:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
Because this is still the issue that scares me. If they repented and all, then why do they want to harm me like this??? Because then we would all lose if such a thing happens. I dont want to be a bad guy to my parents, yet I want love not a controlled path, that I know I will regret.

I havent made up my mind yet although it might sound like it. But You need to listen well to everything I have said.

This whole thing is taking a big toll on me psychologically, and im starting to do bad in school, I cried yesterday, Im so lost. I swear to you, and I pray daily to ge tthis stuff fixed....
You are really between a rock and a hard place.
Is there a counselor at school that you can talk to?
Or an understanding teacher?

You need to sit down and talk to someone.

You don't need us "Forum Philologists". :hmm:

You are at one of the most life changing moments of your life.

Get some real advise.
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MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 03:00 AM
oh my god..did I make a mistake coming here? it scares me how they want to harm me! and I mean we will lose a lot if it comes to me being disowned or worse. now you are jus tlying! I said I Didnt make up my mind yet. It is something I want to do. if I wanted to I would go sign up now but I havent!

Im serious you are a heartless human. go seek help from medical counselors? They cant help. And that would look bad on me to go to them. And I wasnt crying like a girl, there are things a man can cry to. There are other things in my life right now, that I havent posted. And it would make no use posting it considering we have people calling them selves muslim here that are making fun of me like this, why the heck are you trying to make me more miserable??? buy a GPS? This is serious! And then you give the standard muslim answer, you are a hypocrite.

Im staying as long as others can talk to me, this guy is just crazy, he hasnt read anything I posted. An dis quick to assume and point fingers.............
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MustafaMc
02-04-2008, 03:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
First part, Then what is to become of our Fellow muslims blowing up our brothers in Tunis, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Iraq, Leabnon, Saudi Arabia, and, Turkey???? Why do we not stand up or say anything about them considering theyve killed more of us???
And how is this relevant to your joining the Army that is actively killing Muslims every single day?
Part two, its something called a contract, and there are legalities that go into this, they cant and dont do that, considering as I said, I know muslims who do support jobs in the military.
What about page 2 9(4) of the contract. Notice also the sentence in bold at the bottom of page 1.

See also http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joini...cruiter3_2.htm

"Guaranteed" Jobs. A word about "Guaranteed Jobs." It's important that you understand what a "guaranteed job" is in the military. If you have a "guaranteed job" in your enlistment contract, it does not mean you will get that job, come Hell or high water. There may be reasons, after you enlist, that you can't get the job that your enlistment contract "guarantees." What happens in that case, depends on the situation.
In general, if you are denied the job in your contract due to something beyond your control (such as the service phased out the job, or downsized the job, or made a mistake and discovered that you don't qualify for the job, or you are denied a security clearance -- not due to giving false information), then you will be given the choice of applying for a discharge, or choosing a new job from a list of available jobs that you qualify for. In this case, the choice is yours (It should be noted that while these situations have been known to happen, they occur rarely).
On the other hand, if you fail to qualify for the job due to a reason within your control (you fail in training, you get into trouble, or you give false information on your security clearance application and are denied a security clearance), the choice is not yours. The military will decide whether to discharge you (throw you out), or to retain you and retrain you into a job that you qualify for. In this case it's the military's choice.
Each of the services have different policies/procedures when it comes to "guaranteed jobs." Army. In the Army, an enlisted job is called an "MOS," or "Military Occupation Specialty." The Army is the only service that offers a guaranteed job (MOS) to everyone. The Army has no such thing as an "open" or "undesignated" enlistment. However, the MOS's offered to you, might not be the one(s) you wanted. It depends upon your qualifications and what jobs have current/projected openings. If the job you want is not available, your only choices are to choose a different job, or not enlist. On the negative side, of all of the services, the Army has the worst reputation for working soldiers in jobs that have nothing to do with what their MOS is.

There is the thing, I CAN be in the medical field, but its also that IVe wanted to be in the military. The benifits of joining the US Army FAR outweigh the ones of my joining the Egyptians'.
The choice is for you to make, but the decision can have far reaching consequences. To chose the life of this dunya over the akhira is a poor choice indeed.
Reply

wilberhum
02-04-2008, 03:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
oh my god..did I make a mistake coming here? it scares me how they want to harm me! and I mean we will lose a lot if it comes to me being disowned or worse. now you are jus tlying! I said I Didnt make up my mind yet. It is something I want to do. if I wanted to I would go sign up now but I havent!

Im serious you are a heartless human. go seek help from medical counselors? They cant help. And that would look bad on me to go to them. And I wasnt crying like a girl, there are things a man can cry to. There are other things in my life right now, that I havent posted. And it would make no use posting it considering we have people calling them selves muslim here that are making fun of me like this, why the heck are you trying to make me more miserable??? buy a GPS? This is serious! And then you give the standard muslim answer, you are a hypocrite.

Im staying as long as others can talk to me, this guy is just crazy, he hasnt read anything I posted. An dis quick to assume and point fingers.............
Im serious you are a heartless human.

If you don't want advise, why do you ask for it? :hiding::hiding:

Sorry, don't answer. Anyone can see I don't care. :hmm:
Reply

MustafaMc
02-04-2008, 03:14 AM
Also, know that the military may give you a dishonorable discharge and deny you medical treatment for ailments such as PTSD due to "pre-existing psychological conditions."
Reply

MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 03:18 AM
wilberhum, I was asking for advice not harsh criticism from a guy that hasnt read anything I said, and then starts flaming me for it. I have done nothing yet, and Im the one with the problems and you call ME the heartless human? what the hell is wrong with you people?
Reply

wilberhum
02-04-2008, 03:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
wilberhum, I was asking for advice not harsh criticism from a guy that hasnt read anything I said, and then starts flaming me for it. I have done nothing yet, and Im the one with the problems and you call ME the heartless human? what the hell is wrong with you people?
Harsh criticism? From me? Because I suggest you get real help?
What the hell is wrong with you?
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snakelegs
02-04-2008, 03:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc
There is nothing to say that the Army will not renege on the promise to make you a medic and instead make you a "foot soldier".
i've already given you my opinion - but the above is an important thing to consider also. people are lured by all kinds of promises - what is the guarantee that you will actually be allowed to become a medic?
you are young and have your whole lifetime ahead of you. don't risk your life/physical or mental scarring etc. for a cause that isn't even your own.
Reply

جوري
02-04-2008, 03:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
oh my god..did I make a mistake coming here?
Only you are the best judge of that!


it scares me how they want to harm me!
is someone is inflicting harm on you, perhaps you should file a police report?

and I mean we will lose a lot if it comes to me being disowned or worse.
Sounds really grave.. you should perhaps discuss with your parents why they are making such threats against you?

now you are jus tlying! I said I Didnt make up my mind yet.
? stop being a hypocrite!

It is something I want to do. if I wanted to I would go sign up now but I havent!
you seem like a confused teenager! perhaps the army indeed can straighten you out?

Im serious you are a heartless human. go seek help from medical counselors?
that is what people do, when they are psychologically upset as you have mentioned in your above post!

They cant help. And that would look bad on me to go to them.
How so? does everyone who seeks medical attention when psychologically upset as in your afore mentioned post 'looks bad'

And I wasnt crying like a girl, there are things a man can cry to.
Yes .. indeed.. does this seem like the sort of situation that needs this much melodrama?


There are other things in my life right now, that I havent posted.
Join the 5.9 billion people who have problems not posted!

And it would make no use posting it considering we have people calling them selves muslim here that are making fun of me like this, why the heck are you trying to make me more miserable???
I think you are miserable on your own.. the only way you can be made happy, if some were to come here and give you their blessings to go with your whims , perhaps speak a little badly of your ruthless parents who just don't seem to understand you?.. and so I believe you already have everyone's blessing.. Go join the american army.. knock yourself out!


buy a GPS? This is serious! And then you give the standard muslim answer, you are a hypocrite.
Actually that is me being kind.. this isn't the standard answer I'd give to a serious Muslim.. just the ones wasting everyone's time!

Im staying as long as others can talk to me, this guy is just crazy, he hasnt read anything I posted. An dis quick to assume and point fingers.............
I am a sister..
'roo7 te'til akhiwanak ilmoslmeen, mithl ilkhawana' be my guest..

:w:
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Malaikah
02-04-2008, 03:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Harsh criticism? From me? Because I suggest you get real help?
What the hell is wrong with you?
Umm... I think he was referring to PurestAmbrosia, not you.

By the way, MooRocks75, I'm not sure what interests you about being a medic for the army, but if it is because you want to help people hurt at war, why don't you consider working with a humanitarian agency who travel to those countries and help without being attached to the army?
Reply

MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 03:38 AM
ooooooh that is why you are being harsh to me, you think im going to be killing muslims? matter of fact is no I wont be.

to every other muslim and non muslim here that has talked to me I really appreciate your help with this. This "sister" is sadly mistaken in her thoughts about me. I dont need nayone to bad mouth my parents, I love them, all I am doing is asking for help and YOU are taking it really personal. May allah forgive you. Assuming something about a brother is haram. Also making up false statements is haram. I am sorry if you may have lost someone in a war, but I am not going to kill anyone. The hting about problems si that you think this is the only one that is haunting me and telling me not to cry about it like this is the ONLY thing.

I will continue to do as I have been doing. I believe god is a better judge then any of these "muslims" and will ponder on this issue a lot longer than I thought.
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YusufNoor
02-04-2008, 04:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
Umm... I think he was referring to PurestAmbrosia, not you.

By the way, MooRocks75, I'm not sure what interests you about being a medic for the army, but if it is because you want to help people hurt at war, why don't you consider working with a humanitarian agency who travel to those countries and help without being attached to the army? :thumbs_up
:sl: MooRocks75

you think im going to be killing muslims? matter of fact is no I wont be
so to speak, innocent people and innocent Muslims, ABSOLUTELY! that may be why we've lost more vet's to suicide [6000, iirc] than to acts of war [nearing what, 4000]!

Islam aside, the way the US runs wars is totally SNAFU! read anything about the Civil War and compare how the south treated their army and how the North expended theirs! Korea and Vietnam are examples of not fighting to win, but fighting to obtain political objectives, it's assinine!

they MAY be what appear to be "success stories", but they arent' ALL success stories! you kill who someone in DC wants you to kill and that is it!

while i'm not sure EXACTLY what your parents have said or what they meant by what they said, i think that they don't want you to join the US military! for different reasons, i agree with them! NOT with what they MAY be saying to you!

i want to answer something else you asked but it's so far back i can't scroll to it...

if you feel really threatened with death, leave your home until you sort this out.

May allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala guide you and your parents and the rest of us as well!

have you tried Istikhara?

:w:
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MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 04:21 AM
How do I make Istikhara? Is this when I pray two raka3at? and mean it?
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YusufNoor
02-04-2008, 04:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
How do I make Istikhara? Is this when I pray two raka3at? and mean it?
:sl: Akhi,

no, it's 2 Rakah followed by du'a:

http://www.isaina.org/index.php?opti...id=49&Itemid=5

i've also heard that you do it daily until you are sure. ask an Imam!

:w:
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thirdwatch512
02-04-2008, 04:59 AM
I would wait until next year before joining.. That way, maybe the Democrats will win the presidency and withdrawal will slowly start! Then, after the 3 months boot camp, maybe you will not have to go to Iraq/other nations and fight against your own Ummah!

Either way.. Do what you feel is best. It is all your choice in the end, and no one else's!
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Ummu Sufyaan
02-04-2008, 06:13 AM
:sl:
i dont know if i would disown my child if he was in your shoes, but i would most defnitaley be fuming.
United States Army to be a Medic/Health Care Specialist.
couldnt you do that for the muslms :? subhanallah, our brothers and sisters are suffering everywhere, why not attend to them? why will you heal the pain of a kaafir, who is probably gonna use a weapon-with the arm you mended- to kill you brother in islam.
On the side: if i were you i wouldnt go ahead with it, simply because it distresses my parents too much. whether they are right or wrong for 'disowning' you, that reason alone should stop you for going ahead with it.
Reply

Malaikah
02-04-2008, 07:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MooRocks75
ooooooh that is why you are being harsh to me, you think im going to be killing muslims? matter of fact is no I wont be.

to every other muslim and non muslim here that has talked to me I really appreciate your help with this. This "sister" is sadly mistaken in her thoughts about me. I dont need nayone to bad mouth my parents, I love them, all I am doing is asking for help and YOU are taking it really personal. May allah forgive you. Assuming something about a brother is haram. Also making up false statements is haram.
:sl:

Which sister are you referring to? Me or PurestAmbrosa? Because I don't think I said anything to deserve that tone.
Reply

snakelegs
02-04-2008, 07:10 AM
moorocks,
since you are religious, i wonder if you've thought about discussing all this with an imam?
Reply

جوري
02-04-2008, 07:12 AM
would you find him less rude if he had meant some other sister?
I am pretty sure he had me in mind.. he just doesn't have enough of a backbone to write it directly..
funny trait to have to when you want to join the American army--eh or perhaps it is the proper trait to have?..

:w:
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MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 11:37 AM
@Malakiah: I know you did not deserve that, it wasnt aimed at you. because...
@Purest: I thought that since she was being the most inconsiderate one to me yet on the board that it was obvious enough that I was talking to her that way. I am sorry if you felt offended Malaikah, but Im not going to be nice to her if she isnt to me.

Backbone...pfft.

since you are religious, i wonder if you've thought about discussing all this with an imam?
Funny thing is since last night, I was thinking of heading out to Tampa to check out some of Scholars over there, there a re lots and ill go talk to them, it would probably be the best thing to do, Tampa has th ebiggest concnentration of Scholars/Imams and they can help me, and I am anad always will be open minded.
I would wait until next year before joining.. That way, maybe the Democrats will win the presidency and withdrawal will slowly start! Then, after the 3 months boot camp, maybe you will not have to go to Iraq/other nations and fight against your own Ummah!
I agree with this, that is why I said I havent signed anything yet, even though I can if I wanted. all of my training would take a little over a year..
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MustafaMc
02-04-2008, 01:25 PM
My understanding is that once one enlists in the US military that it is difficult to get out and a dishonorable discharge can affect your ability to get a civilian job. You sign up for 4 years active duty and 4 years in the reserve such that you can be called up at any time and extends to 6 months after the conflict ends. With the "war on terror" there is no foreseeable end to the conflict.
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MooRocks75
02-04-2008, 07:44 PM
:\ My friend's brother got out of the Marine Corps after his 4 year contrct(a HARDER branch to get out of) And the dishonorable discharge is only kept for certain offenses, like SOME Conscious Objectors(even though some of them get General and Horoable discharges, like an Air Force guy I know who recently did it)

It isnt these legalities that I am after, it is a whole other aspect brother. But soon enough I will be heading out to tampa, maybe this weekend to go see what my solutions are.

Malakiah I would like to PM you about a certain problem, may I?
Reply

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