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YamahaR1
09-30-2005, 11:17 AM
Below is a some quotes recently made by Prime Minister Tony Blair:

Mr. Blair's government announced a crackdown on Muslim extremism after the bombings, and, in his speech, he urged Britain's Muslim community to respect British customs and democracy.

"When people come to our country, they have and should have the full rights we believe in," he said. "There should be no second-class citizens in Britain. But citizenship comes with a duty: to give loyalty to our nation, it's values and our way of life. If people have a grievance, politics is the answer, not terror."
http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-09-27-voa37.cfm

Now, I think many Americans feel the same way as what Mr. Blair has stated and most would agree with separation of church and state. However, from what I understand, the Qur'an is the principal source of Islamic law, the Sharia, correct?

Considering that Great Britian, the United States, and pretty much any non-muslim majority country in this world do not subscribe to Sharia, do you think muslims can happily live in countries that expect them to live under their laws? Do you think his request attainable? To my knowlege, muslim nations do not subscribe to the laws of the Geneva Convention (that protects prisoners of war) because Sharia is their law.

And, I'm truly asking the question as I do not understand how Sharia Law and the other laws of countries tie into one another and how muslims reconcile any conflicts of the two?
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Ummu Amatullah
09-30-2005, 12:10 PM
Now, I think many Americans feel the same way as what Mr. Blair has stated and most would agree with separation of church and state. However, from what I understand, the Qur'an is the principal source of Islamic law, the Sharia, correct?
Asallama Alaikum yes,that's correct.
Considering that Great Britian, the United States, and pretty much any non-muslim majority country in this world do not subscribe to Sharia, do you think muslims can happily live in countries that expect them to live under their laws?
If the laws don't go against the Sharia then yes,but if they do go against Islam then there's no need to go along with it.
Do you think his request attainable?
Yes,it's attainable,but respecting a kufaar country and it's values is an act of kuffur since you're going to put it in practice.Don't get me wrong we could and do respect any nation,but it's values is something I for one can't respect.
To my knowlege, muslim nations do not subscribe to the laws of the Geneva Convention (that protects prisoners of war) because Sharia is their law.
Says whom?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
09-30-2005, 06:56 PM
:sl: and Greetings,
First of all, for a discussion on the Criminal Punishment system and Shariah law, please refer to the following thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=4498

Now, I think many Americans feel the same way as what Mr. Blair has stated and most would agree with separation of church and state. However, from what I understand, the Qur'an is the principal source of Islamic law, the Sharia, correct?
Correct.

Considering that Great Britian, the United States, and pretty much any non-muslim majority country in this world do not subscribe to Sharia, do you think muslims can happily live in countries that expect them to live under their laws?
Certainly. Islam requires that Muslims obey the laws of the land in which they live in. If these laws contradict Islam and prevent a Muslim from practicing their religion, then they should leave the country and travel to a land where they may practice their religion. As Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Saalih Al-Uthaymeen rh clarifies regarding living in non-muslim countries:
...Likewise I invite you to have respect for those people who have the right that they should be respected, from those between you and whom there is and agreement (of protection) [i.e. Non-Muslims]. For the land which you are living is such that there is an agreement between you and them. If this were not the case they would have killed you or expelled you. So preserve this agreement, and do not prove treacherous to it, since treachery is a sign of the hypocrites, and it is not from the way of the Believers.

And know that it is authentically reported from the Prophet that he said : "Whoever kills one who is under and agreement of protection will not smell the fragrance of Paradise."

Do not be fooled by those sayings of the foolish people : those who say : 'Those people are Non-Muslims, so their wealth is lawful for us [i.e. to misappropriate or take by way of murder and killing].' For by Allaah - this is a lie. A lie about Allaah's Religion, and a lie in Islamic societies.

So we may not say that it is lawful to be treacherous towards people whom we have an agreement with.

O my brothers. O youth. O Muslims. Be truthful in your buying and selling, and renting, and leasing, and in all mutual transactions. Because truthfulness is from the characteristics of the Believers, and Allaah - the Most High - has commanded truthfulness - in the saying of Allaah - the Most High -

"O you who believe - fear and keep you duty to Allaah and be with the truthful"

And the Prophet encouraged truthfulness and said : "Adhere to truthfulness, because truthfulness leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise; and a person will continue to be truthful, and strive to be truthful until he will be written down with Allaah as a truthful person".

And he warned against falsehood, and said : "Beware of falsehood, because falsehood leads to wickedness, and wickedness leads to the Fire. And a person will continue lying, and striving to lie until he is written down with Allaah as a great liar."

O my brother Muslims. O youth. Be true in your sayings with your brothers, and with those Non-Muslims whom you live along with - so that you will be inviters to the Religion of Islaam, by your actions and in reality. So how many people there are who first entered into Islaam because of the behaviour and manners of the Muslims, and their truthfulness, and their being true in their dealings. (Tele-link 28th July 2000, Birmingham UK)
Likewise, Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih Al-Munajjid writes:
8- The Muslims believe that it is not permissible, under any circumstances whatsoever, for a Muslim to mistreat a non-Muslim who is not hostile towards Islam; so the Muslim should not commit aggression against him, or frighten him, or terrorize him, or steal his wealth, or embezzle him, or deprive him of his rights, or deny him his trust, or deny him his wages, or withhold from him the price of his goods when buying from him or withhold the profits of a partnership if he is in a business partnership with him.

9- The Muslims believe that it is obligatory upon the Muslims to honour treaties or agreements made with a non-Muslim party. If a Muslim has agreed to their conditions when seeking permission to enter their country (i.e., a visa) and has promised to adhere to that, then it is not permissible for him to commit mischief in their land, to betray anyone, to steal, to kill or to do any destructive action, and so on. (Islam Q&A)
So once a Muslim agrees to live in a non-muslim country they must adhere to those laws because they have agreed to live there. This is part of the Shariah, and therefore there is no conflict between the Shariah and Muslims living in the West.

Do you think his request attainable? To my knowlege, muslim nations do not subscribe to the laws of the Geneva Convention (that protects prisoners of war) because Sharia is their law.
The Shariah does protect prisoners of war. Shaykh Muhammad Saalih Al-Munajjid comments about the treatment of prisoners:
If the Muslims capture them and take them to a place that has been prepared for them, they should not harm them or torture them with beatings, depriving them of food and water, leaving them out in the sun or the cold, burning them with fire, or putting covers over their mouths, ears and eyes and putting them in cages like animals. Rather they should treat them with kindness and mercy, feed them well and encourage them to enter Islam... ...The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to enjoin the Muslims to treat prisoners well, whereas the Romans and those who came before them the Assyrians and Pharaohs, all used to put out their prisoners’ eyes with hot irons, and flay them alive, feeding their skins to dogs, such that the prisoners preferred death to life.

I hope this helps.
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YamahaR1
09-30-2005, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Shukri
Says whom?
Check out the countries who are signatories to the Geneva Convention.
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YamahaR1
09-30-2005, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
I hope this helps.
It did. Thank you.
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Muezzin
10-01-2005, 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by YamahaR1
Below is a some quotes recently made by Prime Minister Tony Blair:
I can't believe the writer of that article spelt 'its' wrong! Grammar is going down the bleedin' toilet! :p

Now, I think many Americans feel the same way as what Mr. Blair has stated and most would agree with separation of church and state. However, from what I understand, the Qur'an is the principal source of Islamic law, the Sharia, correct?
Yep

Considering that Great Britian, the United States, and pretty much any non-muslim majority country in this world do not subscribe to Sharia, do you think muslims can happily live in countries that expect them to live under their laws? Do you think his request attainable?
In all honesty, no. If a country has a non-Muslim majority, it becomes nigh on impossible to implement Islamic law.

To my knowlege, muslim nations do not subscribe to the laws of the Geneva Convention (that protects prisoners of war) because Sharia is their law.
Ansar answered this very well.
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Bass
10-01-2005, 03:15 PM
[QUOTE=Muezzin]I can't believe the writer of that article spelt 'its' wrong! Grammar is going down the bleedin' toilet! :p


True
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Bittersteel
10-01-2005, 05:17 PM
To my knowlege, muslim nations do not subscribe to the laws of the Geneva Convention (that protects prisoners of war) because Sharia is their law
and the Sharia protects P.O.Ws in a certain way.
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muslimrebel
10-08-2005, 04:32 PM
sharia law inshallah will be victorious in the end
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YamahaR1
10-09-2005, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by Hashim
:sl:

Of course yes, the shaari'ah treats the P.O.W'S very well. According to shaari'aah the non-muslims would be shocked to see how well we treat captives and P.O.W'S. The stories of immense hospitality and kind-herated treatment towards even non-muslim and enemy captives by the companions (Radi'Allaah'ta'Allaah'Anhum) and especially Muhammad (sallallhualayi'wa'salam) himself.

:w:
Well, I've seen a couple of the beheading videos from Iraq. It didn't look too humane too me. And, the people being murdered were noncombatants....not military personnel. But then I'm guessing those people committing the murders do not truly represent Islam or follow Sharia Law?

Much like the American soldiers at Abu Ghraib also do not represent what the US military as a whole stands for.
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Salah ud Deen
10-10-2005, 04:41 AM
Britian does not have seperation of church and state, that is an American thing. Britian's official religion is the Church of England.

Originally Posted by YamahaR1
Well, I've seen a couple of the beheading videos from Iraq. It didn't look too humane too me. And, the people being murdered were noncombatants....not military personnel. But then I'm guessing those people committing the murders do not truly represent Islam or follow Sharia Law?

Much like the American soldiers at Abu Ghraib also do not represent what the US military as a whole stands for.
That is correct. The treatment of the non-combatant pow's was haram accourding to Sharia. As for the US soldiers, while I'm sure some of them truely do want to help the Iraqi people, up to 30,000 of them have traded pictures of dead Iraqi's for their beloved American porn. Also there are many many more pictures and video tapes of torture from Abu Ghuraib, indicating that the torture is sestemic and not isolated as the great liar GW Bush inticates.
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imaad_udeen
10-10-2005, 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by YamahaR1
Well, I've seen a couple of the beheading videos from Iraq. It didn't look too humane too me. And, the people being murdered were noncombatants....not military personnel. But then I'm guessing those people committing the murders do not truly represent Islam or follow Sharia Law?

Much like the American soldiers at Abu Ghraib also do not represent what the US military as a whole stands for.
Of course they don't, but they use Islam as their banner, which is a major problem.

Notice AQ in Iraq has stopped the beheading video campaign. They began to realize it was doing more harm to their cause than good.

Anyways, these people use Islam as their banner and chant "Allahuakbar" while sawing a bound mans head off. Pretty vile stuff.
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imaad_udeen
10-10-2005, 06:52 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
I can't believe the writer of that article spelt 'its' wrong! Grammar is going down the bleedin' toilet! :p
Spelt?

:omg: ;D
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Noor
10-10-2005, 07:17 AM
:sl:

''Notice AQ in Iraq has stopped the beheading video campaign. They began to realize it was doing more harm to their cause than good.''

What I also noticed was that the beheadings peculiarly ceased when the presidential campaigns ended. Something to think about indeed… (if I'm not mistaken)

:w:
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AbuMubarak
10-13-2005, 02:55 AM
the title of this thread should be "obey Allah and His Messenger (sas) or not" then muslims would gain a better response

Sharee'a is not a system of do's and dont's to punish people, Sharee'a is a system of governing the righteous, presently, many muslims do not strive towards righteousness, but rather towards dunya, degrees, and more dunya, so sharee'a is as foreign to the muslims as it is to the kuffar

soon, Allah will make His Deen over all other deens, no matter who dislikes it, but the question for the muslim is, will you favor Allah's deen or be amongst those who are against it

The muslims in afghanistan were trying to establish some type of islamic system (whether you agree or disagree, or like it or not), many muslims considered them to be the vanguard of establishment of the islamic state. The kuffar unleashed the dogs of war upon the muslims in afghanistan, and what did the rest of the muslims, and muslim countries and muslims armies, with tanks and planes and guns do?

they abandoned the muslims in afghanistan, so much for muslims living for islam, and we read in quran how Allah destroyed a people who rejected His signs, rejected His message, rejected His warnings, and we now live amidst 1.3 billion muslims who focus upon disobeying Allah every day.

May Allah strengthen the hearts and minds and deeds of the muslims and make them mu'min and make them mujahideen in the way of Allah, and forgive them their pasts, and make them the vanguard against shirk and kufr, because surely, the people of shirk and kufr are above the muslims and if they stay in charge, they will do nothing but propagate and spread shirk and kufr to the muslims and their children and their grandchildren
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