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Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 12:56 PM
:sl:



Young generation more demanding

How Saudi youths feel about their country’s culture?


Some Saudi youths say their social needs clash with conservative culture, others feel proud of embracing it.


By Ali Khalil - RIYADH
Copy and pasted by: Ameeratul Layl :coolsis:

A "dialogue" on youth issues held in Saudi Arabia last week recommended boosting the participation of young Saudis in public life, but some doubt the kingdom's ultra-conservative culture can accommodate their needs.

"Everything we want clashes with Saudi culture... Why do you think we enjoy travelling abroad?" said 21-year-old Nora, who spoke to AFP with a group of "liberal" friends about their "ignored needs" in a country where women still have to cover up from head to toe.

"I tear off my abaya (loose black cloak) as I board the plane and I never feel any regret," echoed 16-year-old Samira, wearing make-up and dressed in jeans and a short-sleeved shirt, protected by the high wall of a private garden.

Bilal, a 17-year-old male friend in Western attire, said he supported the right of women not to wear the abaya because "it is a matter of personal freedom."

The failure to mention women's dress code during either the debate, which ended on Thursday, or its concluding recommendations confirmed Nora's belief that the issue is not up for public discussion in the ultra-conservative Muslim kingdom.

Women also want access to theatres and concerts that "are open only to men," she said.

Actresses are not allowed to take part in plays in Saudi Arabia, which makes theatre an exclusively male art. Cinemas are totally banned.

"What do movies have to do with religion?" Samira asked.

Constraints on women's movement are not confined to a ban on driving, but extend to their walking alone.

"I want to walk along Tahliah Road," said 17-year-old Manal, referring to an avenue dubbed the "Champs Elysees of Riyadh" for its numerous cafes.

"I cannot walk there. I either get hassled by men or reprimanded by the Commission (for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, known as the religious police) for walking alone," she added.

Girls are also barred from sports in schools, except at the primary level, Manal complained.

Young men too suffer from stifling social restraints, said 16-year-old Aziz who was once scolded by a religious policeman because he had a fashionable haircut.

He complained about a ban on men entering shopping centers alone, and quoted a police officer telling him once that he can enter on his own only in the mornings.

"How am I supposed to go shopping in the morning when I am expected to be at school?," he wondered.

Walid, 17, protested at aspects of the educational system, which he and other members of the group described as an insult to their intelligence.

"The teacher of religion at school insists that the sun rotates around the earth," he said.

Aziz said that when he was seven, his teacher of religion showed him a video on jihad, or holy war, in Chechnya.

The recommendations adopted by the debate's participants addressed the issue of education, calling for the "updating of curricula... and the continuous training of teachers."

But some young participants in the discussions fiercely defended the present system, the London-based Saudi newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported.

"When I travel abroad, I feel proud to be aware of the right Islamic manners to do my ablution and shorten my prayer (for travel purposes)," it quoted participant Ali al-Qarni as saying.

The debate on youth problems was the fourth round of a "national dialogue" launched in Saudi Arabia 18 months ago as part of limited moves toward reform.
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MetSudaisTwice
10-06-2005, 01:02 PM
salam
if only they understood that saudi are following the shariah law, these people are ungrateful! muslims in christian countries would appreciate saudi practising the Shariah law in their country
may allah guide us all
wasalam
Reply

Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 01:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by metsudaistwice
salam
if only they understood that saudi are following the shariah law, these people are ungrateful! muslims in christian countries would appreciate saudi practising the Shariah law in their country
may allah guide us all
wasalam

:sl:

Na3am...take us for example.
I wud change places with those ppl anyday. :)

Allha ma3akum ;)
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-06-2005, 01:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by metsudaistwice
salam
if only they understood that saudi are following the shariah law, these people are ungrateful! muslims in christian countries would appreciate saudi practising the Shariah law in their country
may allah guide us all
wasalam
:sl:

They are, but not completely. The government is straight up corrupt. Not sure if this will stay on topic so i wont say anymore. But i would love to go and study there and live there-----even if the governments like that.
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Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 01:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahmed687
:sl:

They are, but not completely. The government is straight up corrupt. Not sure if this will stay on topic so i wont say anymore. But i would love to go and study there and live there-----even if the governments like that.

:sl:

Snap brother. :)
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MetSudaisTwice
10-06-2005, 01:07 PM
salam
same here bro, i hope to study there, but the good thing is they practice the Shariah law
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Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 01:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by metsudaistwice
salam
same here bro, i hope to study there, but the good thing is they practice the Shariah law

:sl:

And,...they have more respect for their women. :coolsis:
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-06-2005, 01:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by metsudaistwice
salam
same here bro, i hope to study there, but the good thing is they practice the Shariah law
:sl:

Again as i said, its only partial. The Imams themselves have given khutbahs against them and have gotten jailed. The King has to read the Khutbahs before the Imams can give them. is that justice? Why do you think they dont have 1422 taraweeh online anywhere? its becuase of the Dua Mohasany made against America and the Suadi regime. True they have done some good things, for example, they have taken steps to get rid of Bid'ah, like in Jannataul baqi graveyard in Madinah, they erased the names on the tombstones of the Sahabas who lay there so ppl will spend equalk time at each grave, and not just go to 1 or the other.

Now do you know what they are doing? They are destryoing all the ancient places around the Harams and building Malls. Malls where ppl mix and a place where fitnah can start. Is that a good thing?

Like i said they are good, to a certain point, but for the rest they are corrupted. I can go on about them but Ill stop here for now.

:w:
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MetSudaisTwice
10-06-2005, 01:14 PM
salam
i thought they are knocking down the palace near the haram and the hilton hotel to expand the haram
wasalam
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Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 01:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahmed687
:sl:

Again as i said, its only partial. The Imams themselves have given khutbahs against them and have gotten jailed. The King has to read the Khutbahs before the Imams can give them. is that justice? Why do you think they dont have 1422 taraweeh online anywhere? its becuase of the Dua Mohasany made against America and the Suadi regime. True they have done some good things, for example, they have taken steps to get rid of Bid'ah, like in Jannataul baqi graveyard in Madinah, they erased the names on the tombstones of the Sahabas who lay there so ppl will spend equalk time at each grave, and not just go to 1 or the other.

Now do you know what they are doing? They are destryoing all the ancient places around the Harams and building Malls. Malls where ppl mix and a place where fitnah can start. Is that a good thing?

Like i said they are good, to a certain point, but for the rest they are corrupted. I can go on about them but Ill stop here for now.

:w:
:sl:
My mom was told me a few of the things that u mentioned (cuz she does law)......but, I felt uneasy....at that point, I was really obssesed with saudi. So, I thought maybe its mommy's way to get me to shut up. :p
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-06-2005, 01:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by metsudaistwice
salam
i thought they are knocking down the palace near the haram and the hilton hotel to expand the haram
wasalam
not really, they are destroying places around to build malls and shopping centers.
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MetSudaisTwice
10-06-2005, 01:19 PM
salam
what buildings are they knocking down?
i heard that they want to expand the haram so 3 million people at once can pray behind the imam inside the haram, currently i think about 3.5 million poelpe pray inside and outside the haram at once
wasalam
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-06-2005, 01:19 PM
:sl:

Heres a good story for you, a miracle of Allah id say:

The king has a palace at Mina. So they tried to get a pipe from zam zam to go directly to the palace so they can use it everyday. The pipe broke multiple time and they ahd to give it up.

And guess what?? The Pipes run from makkah to MADINAH more then like 10 times the distance from the palace to mina. Isnt that a miracle? Allah lets the water run from Makkah to Madinah, but prevents the king and his family using it at thier own home.
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Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 01:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahmed687
:sl:

Heres a good story for you, a miracle of Allah id say:

The king has a palace at Mina. So they tried to get a pipe from zam zam to go directly to the palace so they can use it everyday. The pipe broke multiple time and they ahd to give it up.

And guess what?? The Pipes run from makkah to MADINAH more then like 10 times the distance from the palace to mina. Isnt that a miracle? Allah lets the water run from Makkah to Madinah, but prevents the king and his family using it at thier own home.

:sl:

How do u know all of this? Wats ur source?
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-06-2005, 01:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by metsudaistwice
salam
what buildings are they knocking down?
i heard that they want to expand the haram so 3 million people at once can pray behind the imam inside the haram, currently i think about 3.5 million poelpe pray inside and outside the haram at once
wasalam
For example, the place where Prophet Muhammed was born. It is currently a library, they are trying to knowck it down so they can build a mall there. also there was a certain link with all their plans. I have to find it, i forgot whre it was.
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MetSudaisTwice
10-06-2005, 01:21 PM
salam
also i heard the king wanted a pipe connected to the palace next door to the haram but it never worked and when the saudi people found out they were so angry as to why the king should get special treatment
wasalam
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-06-2005, 01:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
:sl:

How do u know all of this? Wats ur source?
When i went there, we went on Ziyarah of the holy places, looking everywhere, the guide was a very learned man and he told us that this had happened. It isnt recent though, it was quite a while back.
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Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 01:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by metsudaistwice
salam
also i heard the king wanted a pipe connected to the palace next door to the haram but it never worked and when the saudi people found out they were so angry as to why the king should get special treatment
wasalam

where is your source? How do u know all of this?
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MetSudaisTwice
10-06-2005, 01:23 PM
salam
what about that place near the haram where a rock bowed down to our prophet saw, and that rock is still there the prophet said, but no one knows where it is
wasalam
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Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 01:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahmed687
When i went there, we went on Ziyarah of the holy places, looking everywhere, the guide was a very learned man and he told us that this had happened. It isnt recent though, it was quite a while back.

:sl:

Oh right.....I heard about other things as well, but not gud to discuss.

I think we ought to stop this chatting about the kings and their palaces....sum ppl do feel a bit.....jealous :p
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
10-06-2005, 01:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ameeratul Layl
:sl:

Oh right.....I heard about other things as well, but not gud to discuss.

I think we ought to stop this chatting about the kings and their palaces....sum ppl do feel a bit.....jealous :p
eh? why? We have what Allah has given us and we are satisfied.

:w:
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Ameeratul Layl
10-06-2005, 01:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahmed687
eh? why? We have what Allah has given us and we are satisfied.

:w:

:sl:

I know brother. I was just messing around (cum on, u ought to know me by now)
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MetSudaisTwice
10-06-2005, 01:26 PM
salam
my dad was in saudi when this happened, also there was a line of guards from the main gats to the corner of the kabah where the black stone is. the gurads made a long passage way from the gate to the kabah and SAS wlaked trough the line and people were handshaking him and my dad shook his hand, this was at fajr. SAS then went to kiss the Black stone and then led fajr
wasalam
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Hashim_507
10-06-2005, 09:44 PM
Personaly iam anti-saudi
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Genius
10-06-2005, 10:10 PM
These laws just drive away people from Islam, reforms are needed.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
10-07-2005, 04:03 AM
:sl:
The problem that I see expressed in this article is that the youth have not been educated on the spiritual philosophy behind those laws and restrictions. The Shariah law cannot be simply imposed on someone externally; its a comprehensive law and we will only be able to reaps its benefits when its implemented in a comprehensive manner, not just legally but spiritually as well. These youth need to first gain the love for Islam before they can follow the laws, or else they will never be able to appreciate the latter.

:w:
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Hashim_507
10-07-2005, 05:06 AM
No my brother/sisters...The sheriah law in Saudia is the best...My point was saudi cultural thang , Shariah laws sure does not related arab superioty......
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Bittersteel
10-07-2005, 06:00 AM
just a question:was the purdah prescribed in the Quran or the Sunnah?I thought it was only the hijab?

:sl:
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Ameeratul Layl
10-07-2005, 07:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abrar
just a question:was the purdah prescribed in the Quran or the Sunnah?I thought it was only the hijab?

:sl:
:sl:

I think it depends on 'who u follow' (which school fo thought). Some Scholars say Niqab is meant to be others say its not.
Allahu 3alam :)

:coolsis:
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Genius
10-08-2005, 12:57 PM
Sorry what is the spiritual philosophy behind women not being able to drive, or being forced to cover their faces?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
10-08-2005, 01:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hashim
Ansaar Al Haq, ya ikhwaani i would disagree with you aswell, the schools of Saudi Arabia at primary and secondry impose islaam in the lievs of the kids at a very young age so they (youth) are immeditaly accustmed with this deen. At primary and secondry age and infact college and uni, the youth are taught religion so i think in this way the youth in saudi are taught the meaning and the 'spirtula philosphy' behind the divine law, Shaar'iaah.
:sl:
If that was the case, then we wouldn't have Muslim women taking off their hijabs as soon as they fly out of Saudi. I've witnessed Muslims from Saudi who have no appreciation of Islam because they've only had strict laws enforced on them without understanding the reasoning of the laws. I'm not saying that Saudi doesn't try at all, but a more comprehensive approach needs to be taken.

Shaykh `Abd al-`Azîz b. `Alî al-Gharib, professor at al-Imâm Islamic University in Saudi Arabia, expresses the concern accurately:
Calling our children to Allah is one of the most difficult activities. At the same time, it is one of the easiest. Its difficulty lies in the selection and employment of the proper approaches and methods to bring about a positive response. The easy aspect of inviting children to Allah is the speed in which children can be positively influenced.

Children are drawn to the latest technology. They appeal readily to movies and to pictures. These can be put to good use in the way we present the message to them. We need to use approaches that are tailored to the age group that we are dealing with. We need to focus on their interest in stories and on novelty – on things that inspire children to ask questions and to want to know more.

The life of our Prophet (peace be upon him) can be used to good effect in inviting children to Islam. A child needs to know early on what will benefit him in life. He needs role models who are a positive influence and who have the power to inspire. The child needs to be brought to understanding in a gradual way. It is wrong to use fear as a means of moral instruction. We need to show Islam as it is – the religion of mercy, goodness, and peace.

We need to recognize our present circumstances. We live in an age where our children are being exposed to vicious attacks against Islam being waged by the media and by society. We also live in an age of swift technological advancement.

We need to take the culture of the society in which we are living into consideration. We need to show how what the child witnesses in society is reflected in what is acceptable in Islam. We should not seek to emphasize conflict between Islamic teachings and societal norms. Let the child draw his own conclusions. Guide the child to realize what is right and wrong on his own. We should not underestimate children by assuming that they are unable to think for themselves. Quite the contrary, thinking skills develop quickly and early in children.

This means that we should not impose our ideas on children at the expense of their own perspective. Move forward from the point of view of the children themselves and leave it up to the children to ask questions and seek out answers.

I also think it is a very good idea to teach children about the lives of the prophet’s Companions, especially how they dealt with children and how the children themselves used to live in Islam.

We need to be completely truthful in what we present to children. It can be quite difficult to get children to change their minds when they are convinced of something. Unfortunately, many people operate under the false idea that it is easy to get children to change their minds and to guide then in the desired direction. However, studies in elementary education show otherwise.

I am one of those who advocate starting early with teaching children. However, I am also worried that some people are not properly equipped to deal with children in even a general sense. Then there is the more focused skill of being able to discuss Islamic matters with them.

Children are born with pure beliefs in their heart, with a natural predisposition to recognize Allah and his oneness. It is their environment that influences them and plays a powerful role in their later religious thinking.

I ask Allah Almighty to bless us with success and right guidance in our endeavors. I pray that He blesses every step we take in the path of inviting others to His way. (SOURCE, Oct. 4, 2005 )

Sorry what is the spiritual philosophy behind women not being able to drive, or being forced to cover their faces?
On the issue of women driving, its interesting to know that the Saudi shuyookh never said it was haraam:
JEDDAH, 6 June 2005 — Sheikh Abdullah ibn Munee, a member of the Council of Senior Ulema which is the Kingdom’s highest religious body, said the council had not discussed the issue of women driving in its past sessions.

“The issue was never brought up in any of our sessions,” Sheikh Ibn Munee said in an exclusive statement to Arab News. The scholar stated that those who have announced either through the Internet or in leaflets that women driving is religiously forbidden — haram — were not telling the truth.

“We never said it was haram for women to drive,” said Ibn Munee. He clarified that some members of the committee had, however, expressed their own personal views. “We do not say it is haram but we say that it is for the good of our daughters not to drive.”

Sheikh Ibn Munee did say that Saudi society was not yet ready for women to drive. Al-Madinah newspaper, however, stated that the council may discuss the issue officially at one of their sessions in two months.

Sheikh Alfowzan, another member of the Council of Senior Ulema, stated in a reply to the Shoura Council member, Mohammed Al-Zulfa, that the financial cost of bringing foreign drivers was much less than a loss of honor. The sheikh was referring to the possibility that women driving could lead to immorality and a loss of honor.

A number of female voices have raised questions reflecting their confusion about the situation. Khowla Al-Khaldi, a teacher from Jeddah, said, “If the Ulema Council were not going to discuss the issue, and the vice-chairman of the Shoura Council said that the matter was for the Ulema and the Minister of Interior, Prince Naif, said that the matter is social rather than religious, then to whom shall we look for answers?”

Manal Tashkandi said that she had been searching for years for someone to rule on the issue. “I am not keen on driving but for God’s sake, when will this hassle end?” said Tashkandi who has a British driving license.

A few women expressed satisfaction about women not being allowed to drive.

Nahla Al-Swailih, a banker in Riyadh, said that she was not interested in driving in the Kingdom although she has an international driving license. “I can never imagine myself driving in these streets which are filled with lunatics driving madly,” said Al-Swalih.

Muna Bukhari said that she agreed with Ibn Munee’s comment about society. “Unfortunately, our young men need to be taught proper behavior and respect before we women can be allowed to drive,” said Bukhari. She added that one could sense what problems women drivers would face by simply being aware of the harassment they are subjected to in malls.

Saad Al-Matrafi, Arab Newsp
So these matters are just their personal opinion on what is best for their country, but that doesn't mean its right. And the spiritual philosophy behind them is modesty. There are many Muslim sisters who live in the west but prefer to wear the niqaab, without any pressure from their family.

:w:
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azim
10-08-2005, 02:00 PM
Salamu alaykum.

How can a monarchy have Shariah law, when that itself is against Shariah law. It will never work without a Khilafah, insha'Allah one day we will have one but until then it's our responsibility to speak out against the problems in Saudi Arabia. You will see that in Saudi the ones who suffer the most are the poor and the women, the laws are divine but the ones who enforce it are corrupt. The situation is similar to the Jews when Isa (AS) came to them. It's not direspectful to our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to talk badly of Saudi Arabia, it is disrespectful to our Prophet (pbuh) to ignore the corruption, filfth and hyprocrisy that is in Saudi Arabia at the moment.
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Bittersteel
10-08-2005, 03:47 PM
I thought Saudi Arabia had the lowest crime rates and later was proved wrong.

:sl:
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