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The Thespian
11-16-2005, 02:52 AM
Firstoff, what is the Ummah? Just curious.

Second, I am curious to know what the Koran says about us Infidels. The limit of my knowledge is that it mentions them, and that's about it. Could you help me out on this?
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Desai
11-16-2005, 03:27 AM
Peace be with you

Thank you for your interest in Islam and the Muslims.

Ummah basically means a Community, World-wide community of Muslims, the nation of Islam.

Before i begin, i rekon your question on infidles may be leading elsewhere, i will mention the point where i think this discussion is heading.

It is our duty and privilege to present the truth and proof about Islam and what it represents.

We desire to clear up misconceptions and misunderstandings about Islam to help others see the true message that came with all of the prophets from Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them all.

The message is: Laa ilaaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped except Allah).

The word used most often in Quran, that is so often "mistranslated" is kill; slay; or slaughter is "not" jihad, it is qital and if you look to the Arabic, you will quickly understand this word in today's usage would clearly be combat.

Naturally, just as here in our countries. we must stand up for righteousness and strive to prevent oppression, aggression and tyranny. This is the proper usage and understanding for this term, as you will discover while passing through the tafseer and explanations by top scholars today.

Once this is in place, there really isn't a question anymore, due to the necessity as we see today, to prevent and subdue enemies of freedom, liberty and justice. In other words, we could easily say Islam declared the first war against terrorism - 1,400 years ago. And by the way, it's called, JIHAD.

Thanks so much and may Allah guide all of us to the straight path to be with Him in the Next Life, ameen.

If i have got the wrong end of the stick, please say so...

May you find Peace
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Rabi'ya
11-16-2005, 10:21 AM
Very well explained brother Desai, mashAllah

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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The Thespian
11-16-2005, 11:45 AM
Where did you think it was going?
I just wanted to know. Everything else I've gotten has been somewhat mixed messages.
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Rabi'ya
11-16-2005, 11:48 AM
The Thespian,

Do you have any other questions which you wanted answered? The Basics Of Islam section has many issues raised previously by non-Muslims, You might find them helpful.

Jus holla is you awnt any more qusetions answered

peace!

Rabi'ya:rose:
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- Qatada -
11-16-2005, 12:47 PM
yeh.. just like bro desai said - except the word 'jihad' has been used by non muslims to attack the muslims. in arabic, the word 'jihad' means 'struggle'. it doesn't mean holy war at all and the word 'jihad' can be used in sentences such as - 'i am struggling to get my school work done.' that is a form of jihad because a person is 'struggling' to get that job done.

non muslims and muslims use that word alike, its just an arabic term meaning 'struggle'.


peace.
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Rabi'ya
11-16-2005, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by The Thespian
I am curious to know what the Koran says about us Infidels. The limit of my knowledge is that it mentions them, and that's about it. Could you help me out on this?
The question posed was not really about jihad, brothers, it was about the Quraan and what it says about Infidels(non-believers)

Im not really knowledgable enought o answer this but inshAllah someone else can.

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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- Qatada -
11-16-2005, 12:56 PM
wa alykum asalam warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

yeah i understand sis.. but the question needs to be more specific. theres quite alot thats mentioned about kafir - non believers aka infidels. the question needs to be more direct to be answered insha Allaah (God willing.)

thanks.
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Rabi'ya
11-16-2005, 12:57 PM
Agreed, we should wait for "The Thespian" to clarify the question.

Although I have to say brother Desai gave quite a comprehansive answer anyway, mashAllah

:w:

Rabi'ya:rose:
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akulion
11-16-2005, 01:10 PM
:sl:

All people are creation of Allah, wether they are infidels or Muslims or anyone.

Allah has given the Muslims the 'duty' of the prophets. This however does not mean that every muslim is a prophet, but it merely means that before only prophets were entrusted with the duty of carrying the word of God forth to the people.

However in his last sermon, Mohammed(s) told the people that it is now their duty to take the message to those not present.

Thus our relationship with the infidels is like that of a teacher to a student.
It is our duty to convey to them the word of God, however if they reject it the Quran commands to say to them in the end (after all debates and discussions have come to a close without any results), to say, "To you be your religion and to me mine"
And to maintain good relationships with them, not to deny them kindness (ie be kind to them), to even help them (as long as they are not doing something againts the Muslims or Islam) and to even protect them (under a Islamic State, Muslims have to protect the minorities as long as they obey the laws and pay their taxes, etc.)

So this image you may get from different sources that Islam tells everyone to "kill the infidels" is entirely untrue.

A verse commonly used by radical anti islamic groups is one which talks about 'smiting the infidels nd killing them where ever you find them' (to the bros and sis if u have the ref to that verse please kindly post it)
However that verse, or rather the chapter in which that verse occurs is talking about a battle which took place 1500 years ago. In that battle the non-muslims would not stop attacking the Muslims and were reverting to inhumane tactics, thus the commandment against them was to fight them ferociously until they stop. All commandments on war in Islam are only up to the point that battle stops. As soon as either peace is called or defeat of the other side, the war is to stop immediately. Because Islam wants to give people peace, harmony and security - not war like many countries today are bent on doing even against popular world opinion and consensus.

Anyways I hope that helped a lil.

TC & BW
Aku
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Ansar Al-'Adl
11-16-2005, 10:51 PM
Hello Thespian,
Second, I am curious to know what the Koran says about us Infidels.
Infidel comes from the latin infidelis which means 'not faithful' and it basically denotes an individual who does not share the same faith. Thus, anyone who does not have the same religion is considered an infidel by that person, by definition.

Naturally, such a label will encompass a broad range of people and it is not possible to group them together under one descirption. The Qur'an emphasizes this point:

Qur'an 3:113 Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.

Overall, the Qur'an commands Muslims to treat the adherents of other religions with respect whether they be Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, etc.

See also:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat.../7392-why.html

Peace!
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hanna
11-16-2005, 11:10 PM
:sl:
jus wanted to say dat im not very learned in dis field to help answer The Thespains questions..& i wud like to apologise to him 4dat :embarrass ..bu the replies given by brother Desai & brother Akulion are both very well xplained & clear (mashaallah) :thumbs_up ..Their comments have also helped me to understand a few things too.:thankyou: ..jazahkallah & may Allah SWT reward accordingly & bless u wiv more knowledge to share.Ameen.
:w:
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