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Rehmat
01-23-2005, 10:30 PM
Epiphanius, Church writer of 4th century mentions the existence of a selected Jewish group of followers of Jesus, in Syria, called the “Nasaraeans”, as distinct and apart from the followers of St. Paul, called Christians.

The Nazarene, according to known historical records were systematically persecuted and slaughtered by the Pagan Roman emperors, especially by Constantine and the Roman Catholic Church. The Arabic word for Christians, which is plural, is Masihiyeen[/b[. Another compelling item of evidence is the fact that Jesus predicted in the Gospel of St. Barnabas, that there would be only about [b]thirty of his followers alive at the time of the advent of the Comforter – Muhammad (pbuh). By 610 CE, when the Prophet (pbuh) commenced his mission, the Nazarene were few, having been ethnic-cleansed by the Catholics, who called themselves Christians. These Christians, followers of St. Paul, were numerous and thousands could be found at Antioch in Syria, where Paul first established his cult, as well as in Greece and Rome. Jesus could not have been referring to the Christians as his followers, as the historical statistics indicate the contrary.’

In Holy Qur’an, there is a very clear distinction between the people of the book (the Torah Jews, Nazarene and Sabaeans), and those who are in possession of only a portion of the book – Christians. This fact is clearly elucidated in the Gospel of John (20:30) and many other signs, truly did Jesus, in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in his book (Gospel). The fact that the evil innovations of Paul and pagan Constantine are incomplete record of Jesus’ life and teachings is clearly corroborated in John 20:30. This was later acknowledged by Holy Qur’an (4:51-53) have you not seen those who were given a portion of the book (Christians)? They believe in idolatry and false deities and claim that they are better guided than the believers.

Furthermore, Holy Qur’an tells us those who believe in that which is revealed onto the Muhammad and those who are the Jews and the Nazarene and Sabaeans (2:62). The true people of book, referred in Holy Qur’an are the true followers of Monotheism - Moses and Jesus. The Christians and Jews are the reinvented, reconstructed and recycled sayings of Injeel and Torat. Gospel of Matthew (2:23) too confirms that [b] and he (Jesus) came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth. That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Prophets, he shall be called a Nazarene.

Be it be noted that the true Arabic word for Christian is NOT Nasaaraa - But Masihi, which also translate in English as follower of Christ, or followers of the Anointed one.

Basic beliefs of Nazarene are:

1.One singular God

2.No Crucification

3.Salvation through good deeds and bad deeds lead to hellfire

4.Jesus did not teach or advocate celibacy

Jesus worshipped in Jewish Temple. He did not advocate Monkry, Nunry, or Monasticism

Legal_alien
09-27-2011, 07:59 PM
Epiphanius, Church writer of 4th century mentions the <strong>existence of a selected Jewish group of followers of Jesus, in Syria, called the “Nasaraeans”, as distinct and apart from the followers of St. Paul, called Christians.</strong>

Did Epiphanius really say that those Nasaraeans were in fact the followers of Jesus? Where did you get it?
This is what Epiphanius really said:


I shall next undertake to describe the sect after the Hemerobaptists, called the Nasoraeans. Thay were Jews by nationality – originally from Gileaditis, Bashanitis and the Transjordan I am told, but descended from Israel himself. They practiced Judaism in all respects, and scarcely had any beliefs beyond those of the Jewish sects I have mentioned. They too had acquired circumcision, and they kept the same Sabbath and were attached to the same feasts, but they did not introduce fate or astrology.
They too recognized the fathers in the Pentateuch from Adam to Moses, who had been conspicuous for excellence of piety. I mean Adam, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Levi and Aaron, Moses and Joshua the son of Nun. But they would not accept the Pentateuch itself. They acknowledged Moses and believed that he had received legislation – not this legislation, however, but some other. And so, though they were Jews who kept all the Jewish observances, they would not offer sacrifice or eat meat. They considered it unlawful to eat meat, or make sacrifices with it. They claimed that these books are fictions, and that none of these customs were instituted by the fathers. This was the difference between the Nasaraeans and the others; and their refutation is to be seen in many places, not just one.

Against Nasaraeans; St Epiphanius of Salamis

Kind regards

Al-manar
09-28-2011, 12:16 PM
peace Bro Rehmat .. Legal_alien

I disagree with such article (The Quran goes exactly against the article )..
in several points, but let me in a hurry show the major weakness in the argument...

The term (نصارى, Nazarenes) as used in the Quran, refers not to a sect .
we can understand that term as used by the Quran to be a reference to any christian who held to the christian beliefs that goes against Islam (and the true messeage of Jesus which in accordance with the basics of Islam)...
eg; those held Jesus as divine ,or pre-existed .... those who believe in blood atonement etc......
such beliefs is not confined to a sect neither to the so called orthodox christianity ......

on the other hand , those who opposed such beliefs .... are not confined to a sect .... true christians is a term larger than what some people may think ......
As I said before.... It is a mistake if we say the Injeel is a lost book...
the same way ,it is a mistake if we say true christians are a past sect....!!

I explained that before in my thread, take a look:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134296751-quran-vs-bible-thoroughly-comparative-study-arranged-items-39.html#post1390922

Al-manar
09-28-2011, 07:47 PM
Now I have time to elaborate some points in the article......Inshallah



The Arabic word for Christians, which is plural, is Masihiyeen[b] .


Though if we translate the English word (Christians) into Arabic would be (Masihiyeen),yet not once ,Christians are called so in the Quran ......

they are called (Nasara ).... so the word Nasara is the word used as a general word for christians

for example:

2:113
Jews say: the Christians (Al-nasara) have no point to make;" while Christians say: "The Jews have no point to make." Yet they (all) quote from the [same] Book. Likewise those who do know anything make a statement similar to theirs. God will judge between them on Resurrection Day concerning how they have been differing.

2:113
They say: "Become Jews or Christians(nasara); you will [then] be guided." SAY: "Rather Abraham´s sect, [for he was] a seeker [after Truth]; he was no associator [of others with God Alone]."

5:14 We also took a pledge from those who say, ‘We are Christians(nasara),’ but they too forgot some of what they were told to remember, so We stirred up enmity and hatred among them until the Day of Resurrection, when God will tell them what they have done.

5:18 The Jews and the Christians(nasara) say, We are the children of God and His beloved ones. Say, Then why does He punish you for your sins? Indeed, you are but human beings among those He has created. He forgives whom He pleases and punishes whom He pleases.

I think the previous verses informed us clearly who are those (nasara)....they are not a persecuted sect ,the true christians etc..... but exactly the opposite ..


(4:51-53) have you not seen those who were given a portion of the book (Christians)? They believe in idolatry and false deities and claim that they are better guided than the believers.

The verse is not refering in its context to the christians but to the Jews living in Medina who allied the pagans against muslims...



In Holy Qur’an, there is a very clear distinction between [b]the people of the book (the Torah Jews, Nazarene and Sabaeans), and those who are in possession of only a portion of the book .

In the Quran ,I don't find (the people of the book) are much better or distinct from (those who were given a portion of the Book) !! they both are criticised ....

Bro Rehmat ,though I disagree with the approach of the article ,I would like to thank you for it ......
reflection is very positive thing even if it leads to some mistakes .....

a mistaken reflector is better than a lazy who never use his mind with what he read ...

May Allah bless you

Beardo
09-28-2011, 09:19 PM
Interesting Post. (this is also a test post, lol...)

Al-manar
09-29-2011, 02:19 PM
Beardo is our Boss ,Black is our choice :)

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