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akulion
11-23-2005, 06:23 PM
Salam Alaikum,
This is an article I am working on, it is still not 100% complete but it is complete enough to give a fair idea of the points I am trying to make.

To the Admins: This article uses a few images to make a point, if you feel it is inapproriate please remove them. However please do consider the relevance of the images in context to the article itself before you make a decision please.

Sociological Observation: Impact of Music On Society

Sociology is the study of societies from a scientific view point. The science of Sociology and Sociologists all around the world study not just how people behave in a society but also the impact of different ideologies, beliefs, and practices on a people of a society. On one hand sociologists tell us that Music has many benefits such as relaxing an individual, or providing entertainment and on the other hand sociologists also tell us about the negative aspects of Music such as drug usage or alcoholism. These views may not be seen as negatively everyone, however we are discussing them here from a purely Islamic view point. So lets take a look at these issues.

The first thing we need to understand is that each genre of of Music has its own culture and style. For example, the culture of Rock n Roll is widely identified by the term 'Sex, Drugs and Rock n Roll'. In the same way other genres of Music have their own cultures, fashions and statements which represent them. You may notice that people who are much into RnB or Hip Hop tend to behave in a certain way, they have their own dance styles and fashions. Same applies to fans of Rock n Roll or Dance / Trance and all other categories. The Music Industry is indeed no joke, it is a multi billion dollar industry and influences people all over the globe! Worldwide concerts are held to which people flock like worshippers flock to the Vatican or Mecca, to pay tribute to their 'idol'. The star stands on stage setting the mood and rhythm of the gathering and all the people in the congregation jump up and down dancing to the beat of the Music. Crammed in together like sardines in a can. There is no personal space, body contact with complete strangers is common and often in such congregations, is the usage of drugs, alcohol and other abusive substances to 'add to the fun'. Sometimes there are even rape cases, where individuals got too drunk and got taken advantage of!

Apart from that let us take at the 'idols' themselves - People like George Michael, Elton John, Marilyn Mason, 2Pac, etc etc. Fans often impersonate them to the last detail, from clothes to makeup! The lives of these individuals becomes something the fans start following closer than the lives of their own mother or father or even kids! I personally remember two such artists called Kurt Kobain and 2Pac. Kurt Kobain was a singer / artist from the group Nirvana. The group enjoyed astronomical success worldwide and Kurt Kobain became a name everyone knew. One day I was walking to school when 2 of my female class mates passed me crying. I of course stopped them and asked why. To my utter astonishment their reply was, 'Kurt Kobain committed suicide.' Honestly I just didn't know what to say - not out of sorrow - but out of the shock at the way these girls were behaving. A man they had never met, never truly known or even spoken to - yet they were devastated over him? I personally found that ridiculous especially taking into account the kind of human suffering going all over the world - and to cry over a man who did not have enough sense despite everything to preserve his life and help others? The second incident was pretty similar, only this time I heard it on the steps of my college from some young men and women, crying over the murder of 2Pac. All I asked them was, "Was he your uncle or relative?" Their reply was no. So I said, "well there are millions of people starving around the globe and you are shedding tears over a man called 2 Pac who got killed in a gang related incident?" They of course thought I was crazy and a 'blasphemer' (by music fan standards). These 2 examples I just stated to show the profound impact of the 'stars' on their fans. Which often leads them to do absolutely ridiculous things!

The impact of Music on humanity is profound, no one can deny that! Probably the majority of Earth's population is directly influenced by Music and its effects, which can range from relaxing a person to inciting rage. Indeed a powerful medium, Music, provides the means for many to express their emotions, in love songs, in songs of victories past and also in songs of rage and anger. Now as most of us already know that Islam prohibits certain types of Music, which include: Music with Musical Instruments with the exception of the duff, and Music with Vulgar or indecent lyrics in them. One may ask why? Well lets take a look at some of the most popular types of music around the world, Rock and roll, Dance, Hip Hop, Folk Songs, classical, etc and the ill effects they have on society. Following is a list of negative effects these kinds of Music are show to have in general on people in societies , in the table X represents as being applied to that category and 0 represent as not being applied.

Heavy Metal
-Following / Idolizing of Stars[X]
-Sexual Exploitation through Music Videos/Culture[X]
-Heavy Influence on Fashion[X]
-Promotes usage of Drugs due to Music culture[X]
-Influencing Crime by either promoting it or inciting rage[X]
-Promotes Dance culture / clubs[X]
- Used for Dancing [X]
-Causes Alcohol Drinking due to music culture[X]

Rock n Roll Dance
-Following / Idolizing of Stars[X]
-Sexual Exploitation through Music Videos/Culture[X]
-Heavy Influence on Fashion[X]
-Promotes usage of Drugs due to Music culture[X]
-Influencing Crime by either promoting it or inciting rage[X]
-Promotes Dance culture / clubs[X]
- Used for Dancing [X]
-Causes Alcohol Drinking due to music culture[X]

Trance
-Following / Idolizing of Stars[X]
-Sexual Exploitation through Music Videos/Culture[X]
-Heavy Influence on Fashion[X]
-Promotes usage of Drugs due to Music culture[X]
-Influencing Crime by either promoting it or inciting rage[X]
-Promotes Dance culture / clubs[X]
- Used for Dancing [X]
-Causes Alcohol Drinking due to music culture[X]

Techno Hip Hop
-Following / Idolizing of Stars[X]
-Sexual Exploitation through Music Videos/Culture[X]
-Heavy Influence on Fashion[X]
-Promotes usage of Drugs due to Music culture[X]
-Influencing Crime by either promoting it or inciting rage[X]
-Promotes Dance culture / clubs[X]
- Used for Dancing [X]
-Causes Alcohol Drinking due to music culture[X]

RnB Blues
-Following / Idolizing of Stars[X]
-Sexual Exploitation through Music Videos/Culture[X]
-Heavy Influence on Fashion[X]
-Promotes usage of Drugs due to Music culture[X]
-Influencing Crime by either promoting it or inciting rage[X]
-Promotes Dance culture / clubs[X]
- Used for Dancing [X]
-Causes Alcohol Drinking due to music culture[X]

Easy Listening Classical
-Following / Idolizing of Stars[X]
-Sexual Exploitation through Music Videos/Culture[0]
-Heavy Influence on Fashion[0]
-Promotes usage of Drugs due to Music culture[0]
-Influencing Crime by either promoting it or inciting rage[0]
-Promotes Dance culture / clubs[0]
- Used for Dancing [X]
-Causes Alcohol Drinking due to music culture[0]

Folk Music Vocal Songs(no instruments)
-Following / Idolizing of Stars[X]
-Sexual Exploitation through Music Videos/Culture[0]
-Heavy Influence on Fashion[0]
-Promotes usage of Drugs due to Music culture[0]
-Influencing Crime by either promoting it or inciting rage[0]
-Promotes Dance culture / clubs[0]
- Used for Dancing [X]
-Causes Alcohol Drinking due to music culture[0]

From the table above we can see that music with the least musical instruments (vocal songs) have the least negative influence on people in society.

Allah swt forbids Alcohol in the Quran in the following words:

Al-Quran, Chapter 2 Al Baqara, Verse 219
They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin and some profit for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah make clear to you His Signs: in order that ye may consider.

The same way is Music basically - it may have many benefits or profit, however its harmful or sinful impact on society outweighs the good in it. After all ask yourself as a parent (if you have kids), would you be particularly happy about your kid going to a concert by a heavy metal band called Iron Maiden ? Or to a dance club? If your answer was no then ask yourselves Why, and the reasons will be apparent. If your answer was Yes, then have a look at the table above again and think carefully.

If the text of this article has not been convincing enough for you then ask your self do you want your children aspiring up to, holding as role models, and looking like these popular singers?


Left to right - Elthon John, Marylin Mason, Poison Leader Singer

The decision in the end is for you to make and weight out the benefits vs the harms to society.
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- Qatada -
11-23-2005, 06:29 PM
wow masha Allaah nice post bro.. makes people realise why haraam music leads to haraam acts. jazak Allaah khayr wa barak Allaahu feek :)

keep postin the good articles bro!


wa Salaam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
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akulion
11-23-2005, 07:20 PM
Jazak Allah khair Akhee :D (roses 4 u)
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czgibson
11-23-2005, 09:00 PM
Greetings,

You clearly don't know very much about music, but that's fair enough - you believe it is sinful, so you haven't looked into it very much.

You've made a number of huge generalisations about the different forms of music, as if all heavy metal is the same, or as if R 'n' B is the same as blues. You've put easy listening in the same category as classical music - there are many classical composers whose works are absolutely not easy to listen to, yet reward the effort they demand. How does something like trance music incite rage in its listeners? It's about the blandest, most boring music there is. Etc. etc.

With regard to the pictures you posted, I don't have children, but if I did, I wouldn't want them to grow up idolising the people you've shown, simply because those people are idiots, one and all. You should realise that there is a huge amount of music that is absolute rubbish, created by the music industry in order to boost profits, but there also exists a huge amount of truly valuable music, which genuinely enriches people's lives. Most adults are fully able to tell the difference between the two, and to deny them the pleasure of music altogether seems unnecessarily harsh to me.

Peace
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Mohsin
11-23-2005, 09:29 PM
Alhumdulillah nice post bro jazakallah khair for that, could you post the full article once its completed
jk Khair
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akulion
11-23-2005, 09:52 PM
salam alaikum

oh yes I agree the article is limited in its analysis since listing all genre and sub genre of every musical type would require a huge amount of work and an analysis of each artist in their own style, message, impact, etc. That is why I pointed out that a lot of Music does have positive benefits as well and a lot has negative impact.

As for trance, that is widely known for its "drug culture" which has a direct impact on the level of crime in a society. Take for example a drug additct who runs out of drugs and money, they will obiviously turn to crime and violence to obtain it.

Now one thing to understand very importantly is that all these things dont apply to 100% of the individuals who may listen to or perform these types of Music. We see many variations and many positive images coming out of it as well. But all that being said, if we are to sit back for a few minutes and turn on MTV or any of the popular Music channels and see whats going on, we will find ourselves pretty shocked and amazed at the same time. Because it cannot be denied that the Music industry over the globe is having a very bad effect on society as a whole, promoting, sex (adultry, fornication, sexual exploitation of women/men), drug usage as well as alcohol usage.

As for the pictures - ur comment on that made me burst out in laughter really - but u have to realize that these are the icons that kids see on TV, projected and discussed as being "cool and awesome" so in many cases peer pressure or even just attraction causes a lot of kids to adopt some strange lifestyles. I will give you an example, One of the people in the picture above has caused a huge spark in an already existing sub culture known as "gothika" and "vampire Lovers" where the icons of 'desire' are blood, gore, darkness, torture and such things. And surprisingly milions of individuals partake in this! Islam is against perversions in society - negative things being propogated and practiced wether on an individual basis or social base. So like the verse about the Alcohol and Gambling says "there may be good in it but the harm outweighs the good".

As far as prohibition goes - though it may seem harsh - but Islam does not forbid all types of Music. You can still enjoy tunes and lyrics carried forward through the sound of the human voice and the duff (a kind of drum thingie). After all ask your self, which is harsher? Millions of children and individuals being drawn into a lifestyle of drugs, sex, alcohol or the prohibition of the types of Music which may promote those things. However note here that there is no punishment for listening to Music by sharia (islamic law) standards, but it is rather counted as a sinful activity. Neither does Islam 'crack down' or should i say 'down crack' (lool reference to an earlier post..) on Musicians or Music listeners. My evidence for this is derived from the fact that the Guitar was actually invented by Muslims in Spain. So sometimes people may tend to be overly strict on the Musiic Issue, but I am certainly convinced that the negative influence Music in todays world is far greater than its positive influence.
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akulion
11-23-2005, 10:04 PM
lol ps: i just noticed what u meant about the listing of the RnB with blues...oh that is actually an error caused because my proginal article uses a "table" in HTML so when i copied and pasted and edited, it caused some of the same row and colum entries to occur together

and to bro Moss, Insha'Allah once I have prepared the whole article I will post in
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- Qatada -
11-23-2005, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
As far as prohibition goes - though it may seem harsh - but Islam does not forbid all types of Music. You can still enjoy tunes and lyrics carried forward through the sound of the human voice and the duff (a kind of drum thingie).

wa alykum a Salam warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.


another thing that i'd just like to point out is that the majority of us think that we as muslims rarely have a choice in music.. but even though we say that; the duff, human voice etc. is permissible - this is rarely mentioned; but even the sound of human nature can be used as music. eg. the sound of the wind, storms, rain, thunder, birds, bees, etc. the list goes on and on, so we are allowed to use them as musical means.

just wanted to point that out insha Allaah. :)


wa Salaam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
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czgibson
11-24-2005, 08:37 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by akulion
oh yes I agree the article is limited in its analysis since listing all genre and sub genre of every musical type would require a huge amount of work and an analysis of each artist in their own style, message, impact, etc. That is why I pointed out that a lot of Music does have positive benefits as well and a lot has negative impact.
True.

As for trance, that is widely known for its "drug culture" which has a direct impact on the level of crime in a society. Take for example a drug additct who runs out of drugs and money, they will obiviously turn to crime and violence to obtain it.
This brings us to a different issue. There is only one drug to which people will become addicted so desperately that they will commit robbery regularly, and that is heroin. Heroin is not associated with dance culture, or with any other culture for that matter, since all heroin addicts care about is sitting and taking heroin. The main drug associated with dance culture is ecstasy, which is not addictive in any physical sense. To assume that all drug users will turn to violent crime when they run out of money and their drug of choice is simply wrong. Most illegal drugs are not addictive.

Now one thing to understand very importantly is that all these things dont apply to 100% of the individuals who may listen to or perform these types of Music. We see many variations and many positive images coming out of it as well. But all that being said, if we are to sit back for a few minutes and turn on MTV or any of the popular Music channels and see whats going on, we will find ourselves pretty shocked and amazed at the same time.
Yes, there truly is some dreadful music out there!

Because it cannot be denied that the Music industry over the globe is having a very bad effect on society as a whole, promoting, sex (adultry, fornication, sexual exploitation of women/men), drug usage as well as alcohol usage.
I agree. The music industry is flagrantly immoral in many areas. That's more to do with the "industry" part than the "music" part, though. They want profits, which are usually detrimental to good music-making. Music fans generally agree that the single worst thing that a good musician can do is "go commercial".

As for the pictures - ur comment on that made me burst out in laughter really - but u have to realize that these are the icons that kids see on TV, projected and discussed as being "cool and awesome" so in many cases peer pressure or even just attraction causes a lot of kids to adopt some strange lifestyles.
True, but you'd be surprised at how quickly they grow out of it. Plus, do you know any kids who idolise Elton John or Poison? :p

I will give you an example, One of the people in the picture above has caused a huge spark in an already existing sub culture known as "gothika" and "vampire Lovers" where the icons of 'desire' are blood, gore, darkness, torture and such things. And surprisingly milions of individuals partake in this!
Right, but if you get to know them, you'll find that 99.9% of goths are soft as anything. Their outrageous clothes and interests are just a protective shield so they can avoid having to talk to people, who generally bore them. Very, very few goths actually go around drinking blood and committing torture. In fact, the percentage who do is probably about the same, relatively, as the percentage among the rest of the human population.

As far as prohibition goes - though it may seem harsh - but Islam does not forbid all types of Music. You can still enjoy tunes and lyrics carried forward through the sound of the human voice and the duff (a kind of drum thingie).
Since (shamefully) I've never heard any music using a duff, that would exclude absolutely all of the music that I love. And that's a lot of music.

After all ask your self, which is harsher? Millions of children and individuals being drawn into a lifestyle of drugs, sex, alcohol or the prohibition of the types of Music which may promote those things.
The latter. I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that. I consider drugs, sex and alcohol to be beneficial in moderation. The number of people who get into serious trouble as a result of excess in those areas in minuscule compared to the number who don't. Also, the main reason that people do get into trouble with them is their own stupidity, not the activities themselves.

However note here that there is no punishment for listening to Music by sharia (islamic law) standards, but it is rather counted as a sinful activity. Neither does Islam 'crack down' or should i say 'down crack' (lool reference to an earlier post..) on Musicians or Music listeners.
That's very reassuring to know. If you saw my house, though, you'd think I was quite a sinner - it's full of CDs and instruments!

My evidence for this is derived from the fact that the Guitar was actually invented by Muslims in Spain.
It's derived from the oud, I think? The guitar is my favourite instrument - I have four: electric, acoustic, classical and a 12-string mandolin.

So sometimes people may tend to be overly strict on the Musiic Issue, but I am certainly convinced that the negative influence Music in todays world is far greater than its positive influence.
Well, you know I disagree. At least we can disagree politely!

Peace
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Daoud
11-24-2005, 09:26 PM
The great Muslim scholar Mevlana Jalal-al-din Rumi was often criticised for his love of music.
In reply he would say ' Music is the screeching of the gates of heaven'.

'So why do you want to listen to screeching', the ignorant would ask him, 'we don't like the sound of screeching'.

'Well I am hearing the sound of the gates opening', Mevlana would say, 'while you are hearing the sound of the gates closing'.
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akulion
11-24-2005, 10:48 PM
E (Ecstasy) is actually in the same category as Heroine:

Ecstasy is illegal in all countries in the world under a UN agreement, and even non-members of the UN like Switzerland tow the US 'war on drugs' line and have made it illegal. What's more, E is always in the same category as heroin although both Holland and Spain appointed expert committees to advise their governments, and they both said it should be moved to the lower catagory as cannabis.

There is some variation when it comes to other drugs, such as 2CB which is sold by mail order from countries which have not yet owtlawed it, and I am told that an administrative error has made MBDB legal in Germany at present (11/96).

In Britain, the law has prohibited whole families of drugs even before they were invented and many more countries are following this policy instead of prohibiting drugs one by one as they appear.

In the US, any new drug which has been designed to avoid the law is automatically prohibited.
source: http://ecstasy.org/qanda/q5.html
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czgibson
11-25-2005, 04:28 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by akulion
E (Ecstasy) is actually in the same category as Heroine:
I certainly don't deny that - they're both Class A drugs in the UK. My point was simply that one is physically addictive, whereas the other is not. Heroin is vastly more dangerous than ecstasy, which is why the experts mentioned in the article recommended downgrading ecstasy to the same level as cannabis. You should be wary of using the imbecilic drug laws of the world as a guide to the risk-factors associated with each drug. Drug laws are entirely the product of fear and ignorance - it's ludicrous that those two drugs are classified in the same way, as any doctor would tell you.

Sorry to the mods: I know this seems to be off-topic, but it's an important aspect of the discussion about dance music culture.

Peace
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akulion
11-26-2005, 07:52 AM
Heroine is only dangerous in drug form...

In movies, the 'Heroine' is the center of attention and desired by all

loool
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czgibson
11-26-2005, 02:18 PM
Hi akulion,
Originally Posted by akulion
Heroine is only dangerous in drug form...

In movies, the 'Heroine' is the center of attention and desired by all

loool
They're different words. The leading lady in the movies has an 'e' on the end; the drug doesn't.

Sorry to be pedantic!

Peace
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Shadow
11-26-2005, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

You clearly don't know very much about music, but that's fair enough - you believe it is sinful, so you haven't looked into it very much.

You've made a number of huge generalisations about the different forms of music, as if all heavy metal is the same, or as if R 'n' B is the same as blues. You've put easy listening in the same category as classical music - there are many classical composers whose works are absolutely not easy to listen to, yet reward the effort they demand. How does something like trance music incite rage in its listeners? It's about the blandest, most boring music there is. Etc. etc.

With regard to the pictures you posted, I don't have children, but if I did, I wouldn't want them to grow up idolising the people you've shown, simply because those people are idiots, one and all. You should realise that there is a huge amount of music that is absolute rubbish, created by the music industry in order to boost profits, but there also exists a huge amount of truly valuable music, which genuinely enriches people's lives. Most adults are fully able to tell the difference between the two, and to deny them the pleasure of music altogether seems unnecessarily harsh to me.

Peace
Hello:)
okay lets see it this way

BAN ON MUSIC CAUSES

1.Many people getting angry and complaining because they lost what they love

2.No one dies(under normal circumstances)

3.Music artists get poor

now lets see wht music does

NO BAN ON MUSIC

1.death rate > 0

2.people start to idolize other human beings

3.messages in music is something people try to imitate

4.ALOT of drugs and other messages are etering the mind(brainwshing kind of)

okay now ill give u an example

there are 2 kids(one older and one younger)
they go to a candy/chocolate shop
and the younger one is allergic to nuts
the younger kid finds a nut filled chocolate and immediately wants to buy it
in his view if he doesnt eat that choclate hes doomed
the older kid isnt allergic to nuts and he also wants that chocolate
so when they ask teir father for it, their dad refuses
both of them are sad
the dad refused for a good reason and that is because he knows that nuts will kill the younger child and if he only buys it for the older child, then the younger one wud complain even more and that wud lead to trouble

in this world Adults with reasoning ability are the older child

teens and others are the younger onse

if music is banned then the younger onces are mad, so are the older people, but violence is reduced and drugs too
its a small sacrifice with high benefits
and many people claim that music is their life, in reality people can live without music and be as normal as the next person:)

im speaking out of experience

ps.this is my first argument post so dont be harsh on my theories:p
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czgibson
11-26-2005, 03:23 PM
Hello Gandalf,

I'm not really sure what your sweetshop example is getting at.

I'll say this, though: there is no chance whatsoever that I will ever stop listening to music. If there were to be a total ban on music where I live (in the UK), I would emigrate.

It would be a devastating cultural sacrifice, for very little benefit. Where do you get the idea that music causes violence? In the UK, football causes far more violence, without question. Should that be banned too?

Regarding drugs, I would say that with the exception of heroin and cocaine, the main reason for them being dangerous is their illegal status in many countries. Also, music has existed for centuries, with only a sporadic relationship with drugs.

Peace
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Shadow
11-26-2005, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Hello Gandalf,

I'm not really sure what your sweetshop example is getting at.
umm wht my main point was

sometimes we dont know what is right or wrong even if we think we do
and that is the reason we follow laws and rules to set limits to right and wrong
since our Islamic law states music is haram
surely there is a reason to it that we just dont know yet
or atleast i dont know yet


I'll say this, though: there is no chance whatsoever that I will ever stop listening to music. If there were to be a total ban on music where I live (in the UK), I would emigrate.
to hawaii? :p j/k

It would be a devstating cultural sacrifice, for very little benefit. Where do you get the idea that music causes violence? In the UK, football causes far more violence, without question. Should that be banned too?
i agree on the cultural advice but on the other hand when u abstain from music u dont feel like your sacrificing anything
and football shud not be banned
people who cause disturbance and violence shud be banned from football games
(my opinion)

Peace:)
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akulion
11-27-2005, 01:32 AM
salam alaikum

well bros and siss the thing is Islam does not Ban Music - evidence of this can be seen in the Prophets life where he would MOVE AWAY from a place where there was music playing and such activities, rather than cracking down on it.

I used to listen to music a LOT - I hardly do anymore - once in a month ill probably hear 7 or 8 songs (including nasheeds) but thats about it

And to be honest from my transition --> College days Music all the time to ---> Working life, Any Music Hardly Ever

I didnt feel any changed in my "tempers" or "moods" infact I can say this thing on a personal basis that letting go of Music has made me richer lol cos I save a lot now as compared to before which would go towards music. And also I have truly started thinking more clearly...before I used to be 'fanticizing' more while listening to music. But I guess those are just personal affects, other individuals may differ.
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Daoud
11-30-2005, 11:35 PM
with respect brother Akulion and thanks for your efforts may Allah reward you as He sees fit but I feel your article is not really as scientific and sociological as you suggest. if it is to be taken seriously you must try and avoid presenting your personal opinion as objective fact. All the characteristics you have elucidated against the various types of music you mention do not really have much basis in commonly observable reality, rather they are the result of your own feelings on the subject and other people could present a different set of characteristics that would be just as valid as yours. I feel it is important not to confuse personal opinion with scientifically provable facts as it gives a bad impression of the Muslims and suggests we are not actually capable of independent and impartial judgement based on what is actually the case, rather that we assume our own prejudices and culturally biased assumptions have some universal validity outside of the sometimes insular and self-serving world in which we can seem to live as far as the Kuffar are concerned. I only bring this to your attention to help you see the difficulties and trust you will take it in this spirit. The debate around music is very important and I feel it is crucial that we approach it in a manner fitting to the gravity of it. There are many wrong views amongst the Ummah and it is important we strive for clarity rather than contributing to the confusion.
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akulion
12-01-2005, 10:09 AM
salam alaikum

Wel hardly my own feelings bro...if you would like to buy some sociology books on music u will see these things in them mentioned clearly. Infact the article is from part of my education in college where I took a class called "Modern Popular Music" it was a sociology class which talked about Music, Music Industry and the Pop Culture. And I will have you know one thing, I wrote an article in that class (as my final paper) on the Music Industry and how P2P (peer 2 peer) sharing programs will change the industry around (that was back in 1999) and that paper got not just an A+ but also got incorporated into the course material as well with my permission :D
So I do know what I am talking about quite frankly and even Sociology recognizes the "drug culture, alcohol culture and fashion movements" started by Music and infact many sociologists portray them as being negative in society. I wish I still had my books from back in college days but its been over 6 years now and I have even moved countries or i would provide you with the quotes from those books as well.

But all that being said please keep in mind this topic clearly states it is looking at Music from an Islamic Point of view keeping into consideration its sociological implications. And I think none of us present here who follow Islam can truly say that dancing with non mahram opposite sex members, going to clubs, doing drugs, going to concerts and getting drunk and such activities are Halal or hold benefical purposes for society. And that is the whole point of the article, to use socioligical observations to show why Islam prohibits music of certain kinds, and its harmful affect on society currently.
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Daoud
12-03-2005, 01:42 AM
Sociologists would also recognise that music and music culture plays an important part in creating cohesive identities for many people. Music and culture generally is part of the way society speaks to itself and understands itself. You have chosen to look at what might be called western popular music and culture, leaving aside vast areas of music that exist apart from this. While it is true that some of these music genres you mention have cultures in which some people sometimes act in negative ways, there are many many more for whom music plays a vital part in the way they think about themselves and express their views and who live decent and ethical lives. Music has been a force for political and social change and for spiritual uplift and joyfulness. Young disaffected blacks have found a voice and a cultural identity in hip-hop, the working class youth of Thatcherite Britain found a perfect way to challenge the soulless culture of the time through punk and that also led to a strong anti racist platform in Rock Against Racism and various anti-fascist discourses that took place and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Music has brought great happiness and meaning into the lives of people since civilisation began and to dismiss it all with the wave of a dogmatically religious hand is simply foolish. There is not even a clear foundation for it in Islam and there is a wonderfully rich musical tradition within Muslim culture and I'm not talking about Yusuf Islam and Sami Yusuf et al. Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan - you name it and there has been music being made by Muslims for centuries, music that does not encourage the negative trends that you seem so worried about. The medium is not the message and to dismiss music in its entirety simply because some people sometimes do some things we disapprove of is simply irrational. How about if we applied that thinking to other things - the internet being the prime example. We all know the horrific things that go on on the web and yet here we all are posting away merrily. Should we ban the internet because some people misuse it? Would we not be biting our nose off to spite our face? Same with music. There is no unambiguous directive against music in Islam, whatever the extremists would like us to believe and until someone can prove to me otherwise I'll continue with my love of music and the joys and rewards it brings me.
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Halima
12-03-2005, 04:33 PM
:sl:

The majority of Muslim scholars prohibit music and musical instruments. It is mentioned in Sahîh al-Bukhâri that Abû Mâlik al-Ash`arî said: “I heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say: “There will be a group of my people who will legalize for themselves adultery, pure silk, intoxicants, and stringed instruments."

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I was ordered to avoid two foolish and vile sounds; a sound of a musical tunes and Satan’s musical instruments, and cries made on account of a calamity.” [Sunan al-Tirmidhî]

The only exception to this ruling is the duff, a tambourine without bells, which only women are allowed to use among themselves as an accompaniment to their singing at weddings and on other festive occasions. This was permitted by the Prophet (peace be upon him).


:w:
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akulion
12-03-2005, 11:13 PM
Salam Alaikum
Well bro I did not deny that Music may have benefical purposes, that is why the article specifically quotes the verse from the Quran talking about Alcohol and then comparing it to Music.

You see though the "rock against racism" movement have been successful but look at what it contained? Concerts where mahram and non mahram were mixing, alcohol (im sure) was being drunk as well as drug usage. People were dancing and all those sorts of things.

There may be benefits in it but the harms outweigh the benefits. Look at whats going on around the world. Kids look towards Brittney Spears and boy bands as their "role models" and "ideals". The copy the fashions and actions of these people. Its just ridiclous. We as Muslims have to teach our kids the Truth and not just our kids but others too. We must not forget that the purpose of our life on this Earth is to Worship Allah and spread the message, not to be dancing around. As far as nasheeds are concerned bro there is no prohibition on that type of music at all. And please remember that the forbidden type of Music only gains us sins - it is not forbidden in the sense that we start to crack down upon it.

Honestly, think about it in depth insha'Allah keeping it in Islamic Prospective.

ps: I do listen to music myself but in moderation to the extent of only maybe 8 to 10 songs in a month which include nasheeds. So I would agree that music is good at times but in moderation.
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Mu'maneen
12-04-2005, 01:19 AM
:sl:

Interesting read, Mashah'Allah. Jazak Allah Kher Fe Dunya Wal Akhira Dear Brother of Islam.


---------------------

Visit my new Islamic Site:
http://hstrial-besmail.homestead.com/islam.html
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Daoud
12-04-2005, 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by Halima
:sl:

[B][I]It is mentioned in Sahîh al-Bukhâri that Abû Mâlik al-Ash`arî said: “I heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say: “There will be a group of my people who will legalize for themselves adultery, pure silk, intoxicants, and stringed instruments."


:w:
Is that the one that says Allah will turn the people into pigs and monkeys?
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