Jesus in Islam and is he god?

[lady_aishah]

:sl:
What is the Similarities and differences between Jesus in Islam and Jesus in Christianity? :)

[Ummu Amatullah]

Jesus is honored both in Islam and in Christainity. The difference is that in Christainity, his followers over exxaggerated him and considered him the "Son of God" and included him as the third member of the trinity, which Allah has rejected in the Quran. Whereas in Islam, he is still honored for his miracles and all but we believe that he is nothing more than the Apostle of Allah and one of the 5 mightiest messengers of the Creator. Another similarity is that we believe in his miraclious birth, which he had no father. The Christians substituted God as his father.


And they (Jews, Christians and pagans) say: Allâh has begotten a son (children or offspring). [] Glory be to Him (Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth, and all surrender with obedience (in worship) to Him. Baqarah 2:116

[lady_aishah]

Jesus is honored both in Islam and in Christainity. The difference is that in Christainity, his followers over exxaggerated him and considered him the "Son of God" and included him as the third member of the trinity, which Allah has rejected in the Quran. Whereas in Islam, he is still honored for his miracles and all but we believe that he is nothing more than the Apostle of Allah and one of the 5 mightiest messengers of the Creator. Another similarity is that we believe in his miraclious birth, which he had no father. The Christians substituted God as his father.


And they (Jews, Christians and pagans) say: Allâh has begotten a son (children or offspring). [] Glory be to Him (Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth, and all surrender with obedience (in worship) to Him. Baqarah 2:116

How come they don't see him as a Prophet when in THEIR bible is stated that Jesus is a Prophet?

Taken from Matthew 21:10-11
10) When Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, "Who is this?"
11) The crowds answered, "This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee."

[Henry]

Assalamu Alaikam Waramatuallah Wabarakatu.

Wow, now we only need to find an exact description according to Christian belief and bam, I bet you $10 it would counteract with Jesus (SAW) being Allah's (SWT) son.

*EDIT*

Definition: A man called of God to teach the people on earth his commandments. Written words of prophets are called scriptures.

That was from About.com, and it had Christian references under it, so it is probably the Christian belief. I also checked Wikipedia and it basically said the same thing.

If Jesus (SAW) was truely the son of Allah (SWT), I doubt he would be a man. Infact, when talking to Christians, their response to the "If Allah was human, and every human sins, then Allah has sinned" is "Well...you see...he just took on human form. He wasn't actually human" or something along those lines.

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[Danish]

:sl:
We as muslims are very similar to christians with regards to jesus, we believe he was born of a virgin Mary, we believe in his miracle, we believe he was messiah, we believe he was a prophet of Allah.

Our parting of ways starts when christians start calling him (literal) god, also no trinity in islam

Well,i myself could not find a single verse after carefully reading bible a single verse where jesus EXPLICITLY,plainly says "i am god"...have i missed out a verse or can u plz give me a verse in bible where jesus himself says (EXACT words) that "i am god", whilst he was on earth?

So it seems our parting of ways is not even supported by jesus

[Mohsin]

Aa

I haven't read the whole bible or anything, but i've heard a few debates from ppl like Zakir Naik and Ahmed Deedat. Now these guys are true geniuses, and they've both said theres not a single statement where Jesus PBUH himself says in the bible anywhere he is god, son of god, or worship him. And these two scholars have been involved in debates with christians and they've always refuted and verses implying jesus claimed divinity. From what i inderstand, some verses may seem like Jesus PBUH is claiming divinity in the bible, but when you put the verse into context it's clear he's not ever claiming any divinity. You should listen to talks by Zakir Naik - "Similarities between islam And Christianity" And "Concept Of God"

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace Danish,

The way I would prefer to answer this question is to look beyond our differing interpretations of Jesus role in scriptures and look to what he inspires people to do and how he inspires them to act.

I would like to search for way of furthering interfaith relations despite our differences.

In the spirit of seeking peace on Earth

Eric

[Danish]

Greetings and peace Eric H,

I hope u r well today?

The way I would prefer to answer this question is to look beyond our differing interpretations of Jesus role in scriptures and look to what he inspires people to do and how he inspires them to act.

I agree with that, it is important to consider the fruits of teachings, which the religious bodies have taught us and if we r truly following them. I think, ppl of all religions need to exercise more of self-evaluation.

with regards to Jesus (PHUB), as a muslim, we believe he was a mighty prophet of Allah and should be followed

I would like to search for way of furthering interfaith relations despite our differences.

Yep, the world needs more of this, ppl should NOT be bashed/harmed only due to their religion. In Quran Allah (SWT) says:
109:1 Say: O unbelievers! 109:2 I do not serve that which you serve, 109:3 Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve: 109:4 Nor am I going to serve that which you serve, 109:5 Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve: 109:6 You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

So others are allowed to follow their own religion, further Quran says:
60:8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just,

so those who do not fight us we r as muslims obliged to treat them "kindly and justly". I know islam is in media nowadays alot, however, i can prove to u islam is a religion of peace

Aa

I haven't read the whole bible or anything, but i've heard a few debates from ppl like Zakir Naik and Ahmed Deedat. Now these guys are true geniuses, and they've both said theres not a single statement where Jesus PBUH himself says in the bible anywhere he is god,

yep, alhamdulillah those guys r doing a great job...May Allah (SWT) bless them, and yes not a single verse where his exact quote reads "i am god"

son of god, or worship him. And these two scholars have been involved in debates with christians and they've always refuted and verses implying jesus claimed divinity.

well, jesus has said to be son of god in many places in bible. But god in bible has sons by dozen, i can elaborate on this should any chrsitian want me to...forexample read Matthew 5:9

and no, there is no unauthoical/explicit statment where jesus said "i am god" in bible

You should listen to talks by Zakir Naik - "Similarities between islam And Christianity" And "Concept Of God"

yep, heard them....there r many others especially by Sheikh deedat

[amatullah333]

Salam aleikum!

Regarding this discussion about the way christianity falsely says that Isa (Jesus) a.s. is the son of Allah i would like to say that........it's a long long story!

About the question" were in the bible does Isa addresses himself as Gods son" one can apperently read that in Matheus evang. 4:6. But the thing is that all over the different evangelius many people are described as Gods sons and Jesus himself is described by other names like "the prophet", "the spokesman", "the master" and other things. The problem is that the bible keeps on changing from century to century. In a bible that is edited today youy will not find the same things that were written for 100 years ago, that shows how difficult it is to relate to it. But anyway if we take christianity story we can start understanding were the idea of Jesus as Gods son starts. About 100 years after Jesus death a jew called Joshua ( he was a powerfull man and he used to pursue Jesus followers) claimed he had a vision where he saw Jesus who asked him "why do you keep on following us?" in the same vision Jesus would have ordered him to go to the disbelivers". This man changed is name to paul ( don't confuse him with Jesus disciple Paulus) and in order to obtain power went to the greeks and start telling the story of this man Jesus and he started saying that Jesus was Gods son just like in their mythology.

Another thing we can say about the claim that Isa a.s is Gods son is that 330 years a.c. Constantin from Constantinople called in 3000 priests for a big meeting, that meeting is called Nicai'aner, where he imposed upon all the other priests 4 doktrines: 1- that Jesus shold have Gods status, 2- the trinity (not the one from Matrix!) 3- Jesus died on the cross 4- there should only be 4 evangelius and all the others should be burn. As for the priests who chose not to come to this meeting they were burned alive.

There is something that is called the Apocrypha wich are all the different evangelius from other Jesus disciples, especially one that is Barnabas evangelium, who are not mentionet in the bible some of them are not recognized by the vatican.

I have this information from Khalid Yassins lecture " The Historical Jesus"

Sorry for any mistakes!
Assalam Aleikum

[hidden_treasure]

Greetings and peace Danish,

The way I would prefer to answer this question is to look beyond our differing interpretations of Jesus role in scriptures and look to what he inspires people to do and how he inspires them to act.

I would like to search for way of furthering interfaith relations despite our differences.

In the spirit of seeking peace on Earth

Eric

Hi Eric,

Jesus is also so beloved to us muslims, like all of our prophets. We should all strive to follow there example to mankind.

I wish that there were more people like you...maybe this is something we can all try working on...

Im all for keeping peace on earth.

[servent]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hellow i have just read brefliy through the questions and answers that were there and i woud like to just tell you what i have in my knowledg and belife .first of all i would like to say i am a covert to islam thanks ALLAH witch is one pruff for me and everyone els that ALLAH guides who ever he wills and all the peope in the world being guded with is butiful .so fist thing i notised was that you put some quotes from the blble saying that jesus is god or a part of god and that he died for us and so on i dont have to read it to know though cause well alote of people now what other religions belive .first of all i would like to tell you what i belive and what i belive is the esiest thing that could be .first of all i do not belive that of course or i would never have became muslim first of all i belive that there is only one GOD ALLAH and he isnt just muslims god he is everyones GOD even the prophet jesus (pbuh)i mean it makes so much sence to me of it easy think about it this way if ALLAH GOD create adam (alay salam)and he had no father let alone a mother dont you think he could create a person without a father we are talking about our creator the one who created the heavns and the earth and the animals the humans with no help at all he simoly said b and it was wouldent it be to easy for ALLAH GOD to create his prophet without both parents .Of course it was a sigh for the wourld and a test for the world and do you realy think that if jesus was the son of GOD that ALLAH would let somone kill him and to say that he died for our sins is wrong to because if he died for our sins than we would not even be talking about religion or let alone have a religon and we would have nothing to worrie about so i think that is totaly out of the pichtur and question and i would just like to say that the bible has been altered through the centuries to many times so the origianl is now no were to be found unfourtuetly it is sad but the origional bible it states the prophet jesus sais to his people there will be after me a prophet named ahmed with is meaning the last prophet mohammed (saw )may the peace and blessing of ALLAH be upon him.and of course there are many many profes in the quaran the prophet jesus him self regected what the people now say he even only worshiped the one and only GOD ALLAH and he worned his people of puting partners with GOD he forbided it and we in islam love the prophet jesus all of the prophets we follow all there teachings you no how we worship one god just like they all did we follow the prophet mohmmed pbuh his teachings and life style in islam he was the greatest man that ever lived and there is nothing bad that anyone could say about him that would be true it would only there selves in the end .trust me islam is very beutiful you are lucky to even hear about it ALLAH is giving you a chance and a sigh to come to islam take thos chance you never now when your time is done that is from my heart im not judging you or tring to make you mad this is what i feel and i care about you and what will hapen to you thats the buetiy in islam we care about everyone and we dont judg im sorry for any muslim that has given you a bad message but go to a local mosqu and you would have a million people willg to help you to understand more and be you r true freind i no like i said your heart will never be totaly satisfied until you have ALLAH with you in your life and islam and the truth in your heart well i hope you realy think deeply about this life is going by fast and everyone cares so good luck i hope you read all of this i hope it wasnt to long sorry look forward to your repliel may ALLAH guide you to the sraight path and put the truth in your heart and keep it in all of ours._______

[amatullah333]

salam aleikum
Well i see that there has been a misunderstanding! never in my wildest imagination i meant to insinuate that Isa a.s. is the son of God! The indications i gave are from the bible and the bible is not the word of God! And as you have said it has been altered!!! But of course you are right islam is perfect and no one will ever be satisfied with life before they become muslims. Brother do u think u could quote the passages were u started understanding that i was saying that Isa is the son of Allah?

[Danish]

:sl:
is there any CHRISTIAN in this forum AT ALL?

[Halima]

:sl:

Of course there are christans here but there are very few.

Now back to your topic to give an insight about what the Quran refers Jesus as.



In Arabic, the word is masîh, which also means anointed. The Qur’ân refers to Jesus (peace eb upon him) as being the “Masîh” in a number of places. In Arabic, the word is masîh, which also means anointed. The Qur’ân refers to Jesus (peace be upon him) as being the “Masîh” in a number of places. Refer to, for instance, Sûrah Âl `Imrân verse 45 and Sûrah al-Nisâ’, verses 157, 171, and 172.

The word masîh can be translated into English as Messiah or as Christ.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

well Jesus did say He was God.. well the fact that Jesus did not have any sin. was one way of telling us He was God.. 1 peter 2:22... then Jesus went so far as to challenge his antagonist asking " can any of you prove me guilty of a sin? " (John8:46).
in John 10:30-33--30I and the Father are one."

31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

john 20:28--27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------just thought I post that here...

[ummhabibah]

:sl:
here is something about jesus alayhisalaam

Muslims do believe that Isa (A.S.) was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (A.S.), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus (A.S.), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammed (P.B.U.H.) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur'an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have mulitple versions and are "revised" periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator.

What the Holy Qur'an says about Jesus:

They slew him not, nor did they crucify him but it was made dubious to them.
(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157)

Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) himself told of the coming of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). In the Bible, Jesus (A.S.) says,

If you love me, Keep my commandments. And I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you forever.
(Bible, John 14-15/16)

But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me, and he also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
(Bible, John 15-26/27)

I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the spirit of Truth will come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall speak not of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak, and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and he shall show it unto you.
(Bible, John 16-12/14)

Ulema (learned scholars in Islam) have said that the person who is described by Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) to come after him - in the above verse - does not comply with any other person but Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).

In this case, the "comforter" he mentions is none other than Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his laws and way of life (Shariah) and Book (Holy Qur'an) are those that Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) asks his followers to abide by.

The "person" whom Jesus (A.S.) prophecised will come after him, is called Pargaleeta in the Bible . This word was deleted by interpreters and translators and changed at times to "Spirit of Truth" and at other times, to "comforter" and sometimes "Holy Spirit." The original Greek and its meaning is "one whom people praise exceedingly." The sense of the word, then, is applicable to the word Muhammad in Arabic, since Muhammad means "the praised one."

Jesus (A.S.) also says in the Bible,

... and a little while and you shall not see me; and again a little while, you shall see me because I go to the Father.
(Bible, John 16:16)

... and the Holy Qur'an says,

And surely they slew him not. But Allah (God) raised him unto Himself.
(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157-158)

As such, Muslims believe that Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) was raised to heaven. According to Hadith, he is on the second heaven. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam=Peace be upon him) mentioned, "During the Meraj (Ascension), I met Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) on the second heaven. I found him of medium stature, reddish white. His body was so clean and clear, that it appeared as though he had just performed ghusal (ablution, cleansing of the entire body) and come." In another Hadith, Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) mentioned to the Jews that, " Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) is not dead, he will most surely return to you before Qiyamat (the Day of Judgement)."

:w: :) :) :)

[PRISONERofJOY12]

yes but the counselor is the Holy Spirit... 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

[ummAbdillah]

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

this shows that Jesus peace be upon him had a god, and god doesn’t have a god.
Jesus peace be upon him never said "i am god worship me"

peace

[PRISONERofJOY12]

after Thomas said that Jesus responded in commendation rather than condemnation

"We as muslims dont believe that God is three, but we believe that God is only One on whom we rely, without any partners, He begot none (Has no children), nor was he begotten (wasn't Born), and none is like Him."

well Begotten means unique ( no sin, PERFECT ).. God sent His only unique son

[ummAbdillah]

"We as muslims dont believe that God is three, but we believe that God is only One on whom we rely, without any partners, He begot none (Has no children), nor was he begotten (wasn't Born), and none is like Him."

well Begotten means unique ( no sin, PERFECT ).. God sent His only unique son

nooo
it means (of offspring) generated by procreation; "naturally begotten child"
we dont belive god sent a son,
god is not the father of jesus peace be upon him

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
[112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
[112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[112.4] And none is like Him.

[- Qatada -]

Hey again. :)


Beget means to have children, but we believe that God does not beget, because God is too Great to have any children.


He begets not, nor is He begotten. (112:03) (qur'an)


The dictionary says:

Beget - # To father; sire. http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;...t%3C%2Fspan%3E


I want to ask - how were the other Prophets related to God in the christian perspective? and why was jesus (peace be upon him) crucified, couldn't God save His only son? surely God can forgive all the future christians in another way instead of killing His own son?


And they say: ‘The Beneficent has taken unto Himself a son.’

Assuredly you utter a hideous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins; That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son, when it does not behoove the Beneficent that He should choose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.(Maryam, 19:88-93)


I'm sorry if it seems offensive, but i just dont understand that concept.


thanks again. :)

[PRISONERofJOY12]

bur I don't how that is none is like Him? because Jesus cured the sick, forgave people of their sins, raised from the dead something Allah could probally do. then the virgin mary birth... everyone is born has a mom and a dad Jesus didn't he was born from his mom only... and the Holy Spirit..
I am just here trying to figure this out.. forgive me if I am in any trouble

[ummAbdillah]

bur I don't how that is none is like Him? because Jesus cured the sick, forgave people of their sins, raised from the dead something Allah could probally do. then the virgin mary birth... everyone is born has a mom and a dad Jesus didn't he was born from his mom only... and the Holy Spirit..
I am just here trying to figure this out.. forgive me if I am in any trouble

not everyone :)
Adam peace be upon him had no mother or father

[ummAbdillah]

Jesus & Adam

«"The case of Jesus in the sight of God is the same as the case of Adam. He created him of dust and then said to him: 'Be,' and he was."»

The birth of Jesus is indeed amazing when compared to what is familiar to man. It is, however, far from amazing when it is compared with the creation of Adam, the father of the human race. The people of earlier revelations who debated and argued about Jesus's nature, because of his miraculous birth, and wove around him all sorts of legends and fantasies because he had no father, believed that Adam was created of dust, and that it was the breathing of a spirit from God into him which made him a human being. They did not, however, weave any similar legends around Adam as they did around Jesus. They did not claim that Adam had any Divine nature. Yet, the very element which made Adam a human being is the same one which caused Jesus to be born without a father: spirit from God was breathed into both Adam and Jesus. There was also the Divine command, "Be", to initiate whatever God wanted to initiate and cause to come into existence.

We can, then, appreciate the simplicity of the creation of Jesus, Adam and all creatures. We find ourselves accepting it with ease and clarity. We indeed wonder why the birth of Jesus should lead to all these disputes and arguments when it took place according to God's law which applies to all creation.

We can also appreciate the method of the Quran, the wise reminder, in addressing human nature with simple, realistic and natural logic which makes even the most complicated of matters appear to be so simple.
http://www.beconvinced.com/en/articl...20Christianity

[PRISONERofJOY12]

Hey again. :)


Beget means to have children, but we believe that God does not beget, because God is too Great to have any children.


He begets not, nor is He begotten. (112:03) (qur'an)


The dictionary says:

Beget - # To father; sire. http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;...t%3C%2Fspan%3E




Assuredly you utter a hideous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins; That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son, when it does not behoove the Beneficent that He should choose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.[/b](Maryam, 19:88-93)


I'm sorry if it seems offensive, but i just dont understand that concept.


thanks again. :)

God perchase man from Jesus blood... Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice that had to be done...because Jesus died on the cross Jesus made it possible for man to be able to get connected to God the Father.. Jesus became our sin

[- Qatada -]

Hey.


We believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) did cure the sick, he was a prophet so God gave him the power to heal the sick, the same way moses (peace be upon him) had a stick which turned into a snake. Muhammad (peace be upon him) had the qur'an, which will never be altered from the moment it was released - till the day of judgement - it will never change no matter what.

So you see how all the prophets were given special abilities from Allaah (God) Almighty. all the prophets are of really high rank, and us muslims believe that they all deserve so much respect, but not to the limit of saying that they are God's children, that is a really big sin because God is too high, too Excellent to have anything associated with him.


You say that Jesus never had a father, and that shows how special jesus (peace be upon him) is :) but the same way - the Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) was born without a father and a mother, which shows that God has the Power to create anything in any way He wills.


Regarding to what you say about Jesus having to be killed/sacrificed so people could connect with God, we believe that God is powerful enough to let people connect/communicate with God through prayers, this is why God has been sending messengers to the people since the creation of adam (peace be upon him) - so people can remember, believe in God, ask for forgiveness and do good acts in this world - so they can go to heaven in the next life, where they will be able to see God.


I hope you understand insha Allaah (God willing.) :)

[PRISONERofJOY12]

well the difference between Moses and Jesus is that Jesus from a very young age knew everything... Moses was just wondering around the desert then saw a burning bush and Moses being scared about what he would say the LORD God gave him the stick to prove that I am who I am spoked to him..
the difference between adam and Jesus is that adam was created but adam sinned unlike Jesus who was formed from the womb and had no sin at all

[- Qatada -]

Oh i understand now. Do you have any evidence from the bible to support your quote :) because we have to get evidence from our scriptures to prove our points.


the same applies to us, we will do the same insha Allaah (God willing.) :)

[PRISONERofJOY12]

yeah: exodus 4:1-3/1 Moses answered, "What if they do not believe me or listen to me and say, 'The LORD did not appear to you'?"
2 Then the LORD said to him, "What is that in your hand?"
"A staff," he replied.

3 The LORD said, "Throw it on the ground."
Moses threw it on the ground and it became a snake, and he ran from it.

luke2:46-47--46After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.


luke 1:34 34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[c] the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God."

[- Qatada -]

What about the people who were before Jesus - did their sins not get forgiven in the sacrifice?


And what is the purpose in life for a christian?


dont worry i like asking questions :p

[PRISONERofJOY12]

What about the people who were before Jesus - did their sins not get forgiven in the sacrifice?


And what is the purpose in life for a christian?


dont worry i like asking questions :p

the apostle paul qoutes the OT extensively to drive home the reality that no one has been, or ever will be, declared righteous by observing the law( Romans 3:20 )
"if, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he ha something to boast about --- but not before God.
what does the scriptures say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness"( romans 4:3; Genesis 15:6; Galatians 3:6-9).
Jesus Christ is the substance that fulfills the types and shadow in the OT (luke 24:44; Romans 3;21-22; Hebrews 1:1-3).

be back later..

[ummbilal]

i recommend you read some of this, its a lecture /talk given by the late Ahmed Dennat, a scholoar of Islam who was extreemly knowlageable about the Bible and Christianity,

http://jamaat.net/deedat.htm

inshaallah it will help you understand how muslims see the Prophet Jesus as,

[Danish]

well Jesus did say He was God.. well the fact that Jesus did not have any sin. was one way of telling us He was God.. 1 peter 2:22... then Jesus went so far as to challenge his antagonist asking " can any of you prove me guilty of a sin? " (John8:46).
in John 10:30-33--30I and the Father are one."

31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

john 20:28--27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------just thought I post that here...

THIS IS MY OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN REPLY I HAVE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT COPIED AND PASTED FROM AN ARTICLE, SO PLZ REPLY TO FULLY

You posted these verses:
1 Peter 2:22
John 10:30
John 20:28

1Peter 2:22
21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Thats from KJV. How does that prove that jesus is god? All the verse is saying that jesus is sinless. We as muslims believe he was a messenger of Allah, we believe all prophets r sinless, so not surprising to find jesus as sinless. Many ppl r called sinless and blamless in the bible. For example, jesus himself said John the Baptist was the greatest of all:

Matthew 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that [i]are born of women [/u]there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Jesus was born of a women

John 15:30

First lets read the vese in CONTEXT the context starts from verse 23

23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand .

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30I and my Father are one.

Now if u read it in CONTEXT, u will see that in verse 28 jesus says no one is able to pluck deciples out of Jesus's hand and 29 says no one can pluck them out of father's hand. Therefore:
Jesus=no one can pluck deciples out of hand
Father=no one can pluck deciples out of hand

Yes then in that context they r one. If i say i am an admin, and if i say "Khadafi is an admin, and i say we r one". It doesnt mean we r one in body or essence, but one in the context put forth.

But even if u disagree and totally prefer to ignore the context then how do u explain this:
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one. " -- John 17:20-22

Jesus says even deciples r one in jesus and father. And if u look in orignal (greek) bible u will find that same word is used for one, so whatever he meant in that john 10:30 verse he meant same in John 17:22-22

Also you only posted a part of JEW's reply, dont u know jesus's reply? y were u shy to post jesus's reply. Jesus answers to Jews accusation:

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself a God.
34 Jesus answered them, is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the son of God?

By "Ye are gods:" Jesus is obviously quoting from the 82nd Psalm (verse 6) - "I have said, YE ARE GODS: and all of you are the children of the most High."

As any1 can conclude by reading the above verses that that jesus is saying if good men, holy men, prophets of God are being addressed as "GODS" in our Books of Authority, with which you find no fault - then why do you take exception to me? - When the only claim i make for myself is far inferior in our language, "a son of God" as against others being called "GODS" by God Himself. Even if I (Jesus) described myself as "god" in our language, according to Hebrew usage, you could find no fault with me.

John 20:28
Lets read from verse 25, i am quoting from NIV
:
25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."

26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Deciples tell thomos that Jesus visited them, thomas says he wouldnt believe as its evident from 25. And then jesus appears again, and thomas sees him this time. He is obviously shocked! He Exclaims just like we do! "My Lord and my God!" We all say 1000 times a day "oh my god i cant believe u did that". Thats just a figure of speech, thats what ppl tent to say when ppl r shocked, naturally Thomos is gonna be shocked, he just saw the thing he was refusing so earnestly. And like we do he says "My god!"

the only verse u posted from the mouth of jesus was john 10:30, all the others r not from his mouth. And therefore to fulfill the purpose of this thread i gave u a comprehensive reply to john 10:30

[PRISONERofJOY12]

words meant different back when kjv was in use

Mark 12:28
28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.

it was prophesied in Isaiah

Isaiah 9:6

6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [a] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

[Danish]

:sl:

yes but the counselor is the Holy Spirit... 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

From the verse it is evident that counseller (in NIV bible ) or comforter (in KJV bible, which i quoted), cannot come unless jesus goes away, and if jesus goes away then comforter will come. So was holy spirit there when jesus was?

"For he (John the Baptist) shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." --Luke 1:15


"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee." -- Luke 1:35


"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost" -- Luke 1:41


"And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying," --Luke 1:67


"And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him." -- Luke 2:25


"And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost (Simeon), that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ." -- Luke 2:26


"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him (Jesus), and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." -- Luke 3:22


"Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." -- John 20:21-22

No, how do u solve this puzzle? Jesus says the comforter will come when i am gone. But holy ghost was there all along, so how can it be holy ghost? Looks like we have a contradiction.

"We as muslims dont believe that God is three, but we believe that God is only One on whom we rely, without any partners, He begot none (Has no children), nor was he begotten (wasn't Born), and none is like Him."

well Begotten means unique ( no sin, PERFECT ).. God sent His only unique son

hmm...quite interesting. Psalms 2:7 says:

Thou (o David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God) BEGOTTEN thee. " PSALMS 2:7

If ur defination is correct then looks like we have another person in trinity

[Danish]

:sl:

Mark 12:28
28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.

it was prophesied in Isaiah

Isaiah 9:6

6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [a] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

the verse says US...now who was the second person in a birth of jesus? i was under the impression MAry was the only ONE who concieved jesus without a male

Now the goverment will be in his shoulder? when in jesus's life was the goverment on his shoulders? jesus was rejected by his ppl generally. According to christiandom they even killed him, so when was giverment on his shoulder. And how on earth did u manage to work out this refers to jesus?

ANYWAY, I HAVE MADE 3 REPLIES TO UR POSTS, ANSWER THOSE 3 FIRST AND THEN I REPLY TO UR FURTHER POINTS. DISCSSION IS NEEDED

[PRISONERofJOY12]

From the verse it is evident that counseller (in NIV bible ) or comforter (in KJV bible, which i quoted), cannot come unless jesus goes away, and if jesus goes away then comforter will come. So was holy spirit there when jesus was?

yes the Holy Spirit was around....but the Holy Spirit never stayed like it does now... (if my english is right).. once Jesus came back to the apostles right before the pentecost... which Jesus is qouted Acts 1:4 4 "On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.""

Acts 2:1-4 The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost---
1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

the verse says US...now who was the second person in a birth of jesus? i was under the impression MAry was the only ONE who concieved jesus without a male

NO.. when translated correctly "US" means For to world a child is born, to the world a child is given... remember John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.



Now the goverment will be in his shoulder? yes

when in jesus's life was the goverment on his shoulders? lets see Luke 7:39
back then the priest were like Government people, 1. in Luke 5:18 Lord of the Sabbath
1One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
3Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 5Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

there is one..

Luke 5:20-21 Jesus Heals a Paralytic20When

Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."

21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

there is two
one more
John 18:17 Jesus Arrested

3So Judas came to the grove, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.

4Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Who is it you want?"

5"Jesus of Nazareth," they replied.

and if you don't think those correct.. then why do you think Jesus was crucified in the first place.. if you know what my question means.. judas couldn't just go over to the pharisees and the high priest and say you want this so-so guy who you guys don't even want...

jesus was rejected by his ppl generally. According to christiandom they even killed him, so when was giverment on his shoulder.
read the above..


And how on earth did u manage to work out this refers to jesus?
by studying....

[Danish]

From the verse it is evident that counseller (in NIV bible ) or comforter (in KJV bible, which i quoted), cannot come unless jesus goes away, and if jesus goes away then comforter will come. So was holy spirit there when jesus was?

yes the Holy Spirit was around....but the Holy Spirit never stayed like it does now... (if my english is right).. once Jesus came back to the apostles right before the pentecost... which Jesus is qouted Acts 1:4 4 "On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.""

No the verse clearly says "It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee." -- Luke 1:35


"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost" -- Luke 1:41


"And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying," --Luke 1:67


"And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him." -- Luke 2:25


"And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost (Simeon), that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ." -- Luke 2:26

It is obvioys that Its a requitement for jesus to go and IF jesus goes not then the comforter WILL NOT COME. BUt If jesus DEPART then will he send them. So even if ghost was there in a different form, it still is contradictory to john 16:7

Beside, nowhere does the verse says that Holy Ghost will be different. Where did jesus said that the ghost is gonna be different? It clearly says IF i depart then it WILL come.

Acts 2:1-4 The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost---
1When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

yes and that suppose to prove...? Even jesus said that when u preach the holy ghost will speak via u.

the verse says US...now who was the second person in a birth of jesus? i was under the impression MAry was the only ONE who concieved jesus without a male

NO.. when translated correctly "US" means For to world a child is born, to the world a child is given... remember John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Well, then how did u deduce that US is specific to jesus? it could refer to anyone who is born. And incidently, in what language us means world?

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Regarding devinity of jesus, first discuss the verses u posted before: john 10:30 and rest. If u agree with my replies to those verses, then plz lets move on to other verses. There is no point in going in circles.

Now the goverment will be in his shoulder? yes

when in jesus's life was the goverment on his shoulders? lets see Luke 7:39
back then the priest were like Government people, 1. in Luke 5:18 Lord of the Sabbath
1One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
3Jesus answered them, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions." 5Then Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

there is one..

U just answered my query. U said that "then the priest were like Government people". Well then how does it specifically refers to jesus? What is so specific that it must be relatd to jesus and none else?

Btw, u gave the wrong reference about Luke 5:18. this is what it states

Luke 5:18And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him.

R u sure this is what u meant to post., because where in the verse does it say that priest r like goverments?

Luke 5:20-21 Jesus Heals a Paralytic20When

Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."

21The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, "Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

there is two
one more
John 18:17 Jesus Arrested

3So Judas came to the grove, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.

4Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Who is it you want?"

5"Jesus of Nazareth," they replied.

and if you don't think those correct.. then why do you think Jesus was crucified in the first place.. if you know what my question means.. judas couldn't just go over to the pharisees and the high priest and say you want this so-so guy who you guys don't even want...
[/quote]
i think u r trying to prove devinity of jesus from those verses?Well, first discuss the verses u posted before: john 10:30 and rest. If u agree with my replies to those verses, then plz lets move on to other verses. There is no point in going in circles. And i answer to these points.

Regarding the rejection of jews, well thats not new. Most of the messengers of God (like moses) were rejected initially. Even prophet Muhammed was prosecuted, they even tried to poison him.

jesus was rejected by his ppl generally. According to christiandom they even killed him, so when was giverment on his shoulder.
read the above..


And how on earth did u manage to work out this refers to jesus?
by studying....

I think u misunderstood my point. What i was saying was how and when did jesus rule over his ppl? This is what the understanding of goverment is. And how did u manage to work out that this verses refers to JESUS only, there r several candidate who fit the prophecy.

Isaiah 9:7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

When did jesus ever do that? "and upon his kingdom, to order IT, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from HENCEFOTTH even for ever"

[PRISONERofJOY12]

Isaiah 9:7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

When did jesus ever do that? "and upon his kingdom, to order IT, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from HENCEFOTTH even for ever"[/QUOTE]

He does it now His kingdom is in Heaven it will never end no one will go hungry no will will cry... and I am glad I get to be apart of all His glory when He returns.:coolious: :)

[azim]

But before Jesus (peace be upon him) comes.. the anti-christ is goin to cause alot of trouble, so lets hope we dont have to get involved in that insha Allaah (God willing.) :)

.

And if we are involved, may Allah keep our hearts on the straight path and never let us, our loved ones, our friends and family, leave Islam.

PS: PrisonerofJoy = If a short, ugly, one-eyed dude with 'khafir' written on his forehead ever happens to come during your lifetime and claims to be a prophet or even God, then 1) you kno Islam was right and 2) stay as far away from him as possible. Just in case. ;-)

[PRISONERofJOY12]

.

And if we are involved, may Allah keep our hearts on the straight path and never let us, our loved ones, our friends and family, leave Islam.

PS: PrisonerofJoy = If a short, ugly, one-eyed dude with 'khafir' written on his forehead ever happens to come during your lifetime and claims to be a prophet or even God, then 1) you kno Islam was right and 2) stay as far away from him as possible. Just in case. ;-)

rofl... with Jesus I have faith that I won't be apart of the bad things that will happen in this world when Jesus comes back.. while your making judgements and saying that you hope you won't.. I can say I won't without worry... I love Jesus I will follow Him anywhere anyday... I won't pass judgements on because I am not God...

[PRISONERofJOY12]

I love JESUS CHRIST.
I will follow him thoroughly..
and since I am a follower of CHRIST and Him only I know that I will be part of all His glory.

let me ask a question.... are you guys promised that God will forgive or will God forgive anyone He pleases?

[PRISONERofJOY12]

so Jesus is a prophet?

[- Qatada -]

its not continuous tampering....they arent modifying whats already modified every translation comes from the original



so is Jesus a prophet? yes or no?

Ever since you joined the forum - we've been saying that jesus (peace be upon him) is a prophet sent from God, and so is every other messenger sent down by God, they are all servants of God who will be rewarded highly with paradise in the afterlife.


And they say: ‘The Beneficent has taken unto Himself a son.’

Assuredly you utter a hideous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins; That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son, when it does not behoove the Beneficent that He should choose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.(Maryam, 19:88-93)


Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: ‘Be!’ and he is. (Ali-Imran, 3:59)


Such was Jesus, (Peace be upon him) son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befits not Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: ‘Be!’ and it is. (Maryam, 19:34-35)


Like i said before, please read this article to understand the view of Jesus within Islam.

Jesus in Islam.


Thanks.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

if a prophet speaks untruth or a lie is he still a prophet?

[- Qatada -]

Prophets dont tell lies, they do nothing but speak the truth.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

Jesus said--I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

[azim]

Jesus said--I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

The way? What is Jesus the way to? Easy, Paradise!

The Truth? Yep, Jesus sure is the truth. So are all the prophets.

The Life??? I assume you mean Light.

The light? Damn staight Jesus is the light!! So was Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), he was described as 'noor' (which means light, but it is a better word to use, since Jesus probably used it as well in aramaic).

No one comes to the Father except through me.

'Comes to the father', so, no one can reach God unless it is through obeying Jesus. Brother Muhammad posted some good quotes.

Now, let me ask you a question.

You have us Muslims admit Jesus never lied, and he always said the truth. Which all Muslims would agree with. Why is it then, that the best quote you could find from Jesus was 'vague' at best. There is no reliable, clear-cut and defined recording of Jesus saying 'I'm God'. You know that, we know that, it's fact.

Now you can argue its 'implied' in the Bible. Yet, this is not enough. Since I can bring you quotes from the Bible that SAY 'God is ONE' with 'no partners'.

It's a simple belief, that God is one. A belief that's in your heart. Listen to it bro, listen to what your heart and your brain tell you. Not your desires. Really really think about this. Please.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

My Heart bro ( sincerely ) tells me that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior... my brain follows after.

[Danish]

:sl:

Isaiah 9:7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

When did jesus ever do that? "and upon his kingdom, to order IT, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from HENCEFOTTH even for ever"

He does it now His kingdom is in Heaven it will never end no one will go hungry no will will cry... and I am glad I get to be apart of all His glory when He returns. [/QUOTE]
I put the word "HENCEFORTH" in captical exactly for this purpose. Henceforth meaning after this point, r u saying that heaven was unjust and unjudged before jesus? hmm...

I believe because I put my faith on Jesus Christ ( who was the son of God... yes Jesus was God but He wasn't alone God.. look at it like the name God it has three letters the first letter is G-- so the Father fills the first letter then the O- so the son fills the first letter and then the D- and God Holy Spirit fills it...
and when the new heavens and new earth comes Jesus Himself will reign with His people..

Beautiful example with the word "god" but u know that just as well as i do that it aids no one. Of course in other languages the word for god r not 3. For example in arabic its Al Illah

However, u brought up the point oF "son of god". R u telling me no one other than jesus is called son of god? Even using my little knowledge of bible, i can produces for u dozens of ppl who r called sons of god in the Bible. Indeed, David is called the only begotten son of God. Eprahim is said to be the FIRSTBORN, i believe. Indeed jesus says in matthew 5:9 that all peacemakers r children of god

My Heart bro ( sincerely ) tells me that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior... my brain follows after.

well, many r called saviour and lord in the bible. Again i can produce for u many verses if u so desire. The point is if he is GOD, and i personally believe that jesus never said "i am god"

[b] In islam we loooooooooooove jesus christ too. We believe in his miraculous birth, in his miracles (giving life, healing leaper/blind), in the fact that he was born off VIRGIN mary, in the fact he was messiah, in the fact that he was a MESSENGER of ALLAH, just like moses, adam, noah, Jacob etc. BUT WE DONT believe that jesus was god.

R u satisfied with my reply to ur last 3 verses regarding divinity of jesus? if so r there any more verses u would like to point out to me?

[PRISONERofJOY12]

Jesus was Son of God the Father.. so yes I can see the respect Jesus had.. about... aigan open up your blinded eyes

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Jesus was Son of God the Father.. so yes I can see the respect Jesus had.. about... aigan open up your blinded eyes

Prisoner of Joy, I'm beginning to see a repeating pattern here: Danish responded to all your points and all you could do was call him blinded and simply restate the material that he had just debunked. I'm afraid you cannot continue discussions here if you don not respond to the points.

[Andaraawus]

Christians tend to say that in Islam you have a dictatator and slave relationship with God whereas with Christianity gives you this phantasy father and son relationship with God so quickly a few notes to store on this would be

Servants of God

God calls Abraham my servant Gen 26:24

Moses the servant of God 1Ch 6:49 2Ch 24:9 Neh 10:29 Dan 9:11 Rev 15:3

David calls him self servant of God 1Sa 23:10

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, Tts 1:1

Matthew 12:18 Jesus is called servant !!!

Acts 4:27 - 30 Thy holy Servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint,..." now I noticed something strange about this in my new vesion of KJV they have replaced the word servant with child Gideons servant , the new english Bible servant , New international version servant , good news edition servant the greek word in the text here is ‘ pais’ which actually does mean a slave or an servant

The Quran says ‘The Messiah would never refuse to be a servant of God’ (Qur’an 172)

Indeed I am a servant of Allah (surah maryam)

include this hadith - in this

Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) had warned them from exaggeration, he said: “Do not exaggerate me, as the Christians exaggerated about the son of Maryam. I am only a slave, so say 'the slave of Allah and Messenger of Allah” [Saheeh Bukharee]

[Andaraawus]

I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE

By quoting "I and the Father are one" (Jn.10:30) Christians hope to establish the idea that Jesus and God are the same in essence, however this is not in the context that Jesus meant it, Jesus was simply saying that they are one in purpose and not essence.

If we look to the context we find that Jesus entered into Solomon’s temple, and the Jews surrounded him questioning him about his God given position as the Messiah, as they failed to see the signs due to their ignorance.

Jesus told them ‘I told you and you did not believe in me, whatever deeds I do is in the name of my father and those actions bear witness of me’, talking about the many miracles that God had bestowed him with. Jesus further stated that ‘ you don’t believe me because you are not my sheep (meaning followers, people), my sheep hear me… they follow me …nobody can take them out of my hand (misguide them) My father who gave them to me is greater than all and nobody is able to take them out of my fathers hand’ and in this purpose ‘ I and the father are one’ (John 10:23-30)

Jesus also uses this type of speech in other parts of the Bible such as (John 17 verses:11, 21 and 22)in which he says ‘And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one.’ If we were to accept the Christians interpretation to (John 10:30) this would also have to include the disciples as part of the package besides the triune of the father, son and Holy Ghost, so we must conclude that Jesus meant one in purpose, and in mission, not one in essence as Jesus also says in (John 14:2 ‘the Father is greater than I.’

QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE

I and the father are one (John 10:30) in purpose not in essence
The context (John 10:23-30)
That they (the disciples) may be one as we are (John 17:11)
That they may be one in us (John 17:21)
That they may be one, even as we are one (John 17:22)
The father is greater than I (John 14:2

[Andaraawus]

:sl: i actually had a diffrent intention for the last two posts but anyways i guess i will come back at a later stage when these are needed ....wasalams

[JKFDURAILED123]

that is one of the characteristics of persons in the triune family is their selfless love for each other.

The Father gives all authority to the Son and holds up witness to Him, as Jesus does to Himself.--- John 8:18.

Yet the son claims nothing for Himself- He gives it( The Glory ) all to His Father.

One of the Keys is to figure out the mystery of the trinity is to look how each person of the trinity devotes themselves to each other in selfless love.
they always tend to be at each others disposal.

The Trinity was at work during the incarnation of Jesus Christ( The Son of the Most High ) while He was being concieved in the womb of Mary from the power of the H.S.--John 12:49-50 .

During His baptism Jesus Himself gained approval from His Father in the pressence of the H.S.--Luke 3:21-22.

[Halima]

My Heart bro ( sincerely ) tells me that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior... my brain follows after.

So does this mean that if you made a sin, you won't even repent to God, rather you will just say that Jesus saved you from it? and when he comes back that he will save you from all of your sins? What I don't understand is that, how can you commit a sin and depend on Jesus to save you from it? When it was your bad deed that you have committed.

[Danish]

:sl:

that is one of the characteristics of persons in the triune family is their selfless love for each other.

ur own opinion :) Where was father and ghost when according to bible jesus got stripped, spat at, beaten, and even killed according to christianity.

Anyway, trinity looks like a family instead of god.

The Father gives all authority to the Son and holds up witness to Him, as Jesus does to Himself.--- John 8:18.

16And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

17It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

18I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Yes, God beareth witness of Jesus, jesus is a prophet, so thats only natural. Secondly, verse 17 says that a testimony of 2 r sufficient, hence jesus states that i bear witness to my self as well as of god.

Yet the son claims nothing for Himself- He gives it( The Glory ) all to His Father.

IF JESUS NEVER CLAIM ANYTHing for himself, then WHERE DO U GET THE IDEA THAT JESUS IS GOD? thank you, u just supported my point that jesus doesn't claim divinity :)

One of the Keys is to figure out the mystery of the trinity is to look how each person of the trinity devotes themselves to each other in selfless love.
they always tend to be at each others disposal.

Hmm...i wonder where Father was when jesus was crying "eli eli lama sabaktane", meaning "father father, why hast thou forsaken me". Or when geting beaten, stripped, mocked and rest by others

The Trinity was at work during the incarnation of Jesus Christ( The Son of the Most High ) while He was being concieved in the womb of Mary from the power of the H.S.--John 12:49-50 .

John 12:49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

how does that support trinity? Jesus was in womb of Mary, holy spirit was in Mary yet in dozen other ppl too. Father was in heaven.

Btw, That verse should show that jesus was a PROPHET OF GOD and NOT GOD

During His baptism Jesus Himself gained approval from His Father in the pressence of the H.S.--Luke 3:21-22.

i am being 100% honest when i say i dont understand the point of ur post and how that relates to divinty of jesus.

[PrIM3]

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

doesn't the quran also state that Jesus is the word of God?

[tahir]

The Quran states that Jesus was a prophet and messenger for Allah just like any other prophet. Muslims also believe that Jesus will come back to earth to defeat the Dajjal (anti-christ)

[Usmansaab]

salaams brothers and sisters

Jesus in christianity is known to be the son of god but in Islam he is a prophet. Christians say tht jesus died and came back to life but in Islam we say tht Allah had saved him before he was going to die and so jesus (Isa) didnt die and he will come back on the day of judgement