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Dhahabi
02-15-2005, 02:13 PM
Assalamu alaikum

Brothers in islam the topic of 'issa alaihi salam is very crucial and I would like to contribute to a better understanding of the true and the real message of 'Issa alaihi salam.
'Issa alaihi salam said,
“ But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines made by men.” Matthew15:9
'Issa[PBUH] had foretold that people will worship him uselessly and believe in man made beliefs.





Jesus (on whom be peace) in the Holy Qur’an
The Qur’an tells us a lot of wonderful things about Jesus. As a result, believers in the Qur’an love Jesus, honour him, and believe in him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Jesus, on whom be peace.
The Qur’an says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he spoke while he was still a baby, that he healed the leper by God’s leave, and that he raised the dead by God’s leave.
What then is the significance of these miracles? First, the virgin birth. God demonstrates his power to create in any way. God created everyone we know from a man and a woman But how about Adam, on whom be peace? God created him from neither a man nor a woman. And Eve from only a man, but not a woman. And, finally, to complete the picture, God created Jesus from a woman, but not a man.
All his miracles were performed by God’s leave and Jesus wasn’t acting on his behalf because, among other things, He is recorded to have said in the Gospel according to John, “I can do nothing on my own authority”(5:30)
What did Jesus teach? The Qur’an tells us that Jesus came to teach the same basic message which was taught by previous Prophets from God – That we must worship only the one true God. Few people, today, know that Abraham was sent by God to shun the three Head-God religion[ the Sun-God, the moon-God the begotten son of the Sun-God(the ruler of Babylon) and the virgin( from the constellation the virgin!) the mother of heavens(the mother and wife of Nimrod)] established on earth by Nimrod the ruler of Babylon 4200 years ago(known, also, by Baal,Bul, Mithra,etc). Moreover, hundreds of years later on, Moses was sent to smash down the new three Head-God religion[Osiris(the Sun-God),Isis(the virgin)and Horus(the one eye, which is found today everywhere, or the begotten son)].
In 312 CE, through constantine’s ‘conversion’,the Roman catholic church was born and Church and State became ONE. In reality, the Egyptian priesthood running the Roman empire relaunched themselves as the Church and made out that they represented Jesus on earth. The pagan state-religion was renamed Christianity and new deity was added. So, they implemented the main beliefs of the Pharaohs (Nimrod legacy) and they took on the teachings of Jesus in order that their civilisation survive: that’s why many things have been distorted or falsified!. Anyway, the word ‘Christianity’ doesn’t exist in the Bible and it has never been used prior to the date mentioned above.
1- The birthday of Nimrod or Mithra:It is well known that the 25th of December(solstice of winter) has to do with astronomy and it is rather the birthday of the pagan ruler of Babylon or the begotten son of the sun-God because Jesus according to the Jewish Rabbis and Christian clergy was born in April. However, according to Muslim scholars, Jesus was born, the most likely in summer because the Qur’an specifies that Jesus talked to his Mum Mary, in the cradle, to touch the tree in order to get dates. The birthday of Mithras on the twenty-fifth of December became the celebration of Christ’s birth in the time of Archbishop Gennadius, who was the patriarch of Constantinople(458-471CE), a certain painter made an icon, at the instigation of a pagan, portraying Christ in the likeness of Zeus(pagan planet Jupiter).
2- The name of Jesus: The name of Christ is normally Yeshuah or 'Yassu' and not even Joshuah because the letter ‘J’ doesn’t exist in Hebrew language ( It can be seen at www.aol40.com/name_of_jesus.htm ). Moreover, in the Qur’aan, he is called Issa which is the same as in the welsh language. The name ‘Jesus’ is to do with the son of Ja-Zeus the Sun-God, and is alien to the Hebrew name of God.
3- The Sun-God day:In 321 CE, Constantinople made the first day of the week a holiday, he called it ‘the venerable day of the Sun’.
Anyway, all the days of the week in Roman languages are still designated by pagan planets’names as they were known in Rome two thousand years ago:
Sunday(Sun-God day) – Monday(Moon-God day or Nimrod day) –Tuesday(Mardi, Mars) – Wednesday(Mercredi, Mercury) – Thursday(Jeudi, Jupiter or Zeus) – Friday(Vendredi, Venus) – Saturday(Saturn).
4- The Trinity or three Head-God religion(man made):Paul or Saul (6BC – 67CE) is the Jewish imposter who betrayed the sincere disciples of Yushua(Jesus Pbuh)[According to Islamic tradition these are considered to be the saved sect among the followers of Jesus(Pbuh). Therefore, they were Muslims]. These sincere followers were persecuted and burnt at the stake by the Roman Empire instigated by Paul because they knew that he took the teachings of Jesus in a corrupted form and mixed them up with pagan rituals, including solar worship or the trinity[the new three Head-Gods are: the Father, the Holy Ghost and the Begotten son of God.]. When Saul realised that he was failing he made up a story in 33 CE claiming that he had a vision in which Prophet Yushua or Issa(Arabic and welsh)[Jesus] spoke to him. This is a fabrication since the only Prophet prophecised to come in the Bible is the Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) (can be seen at www.aol40.com/predict.htm).
5- Other Beliefs:All the teachings such as images of pagan deities, sonship of Jesus, atonement and original sin, crucifixion, easter, resurrection, Holy communion, celibacy, baptism, cross, eating swine flesh,etc, adopted in Christianity or Paulianity are a legacy from Nimrod and the Pharoah.
Finally to refute this conspiracy some Quranic teachings can be compared with the Bible wherein we find that the disciples knew Jesus as servant of the one true God. The Qur’an tells us that some Israelites conspired to kill him but Allaah raised him to himself. Allaah will cause to the Messiah Jesus who is a word and a spirit from him(swt) to descend again to sort out the Dajjal (Anti-Christ or imposter : Jewish origine,crippled, red complexion, one-eyed) and implement the Holy Qur’an on earth for forty years.


Jesus (on whom be peace) in the Bible.- No basis in the old testament for Trinity or “God-Incarnate”
- No conclusive uncontradicted statement by Yushuah(Jesus) in the new testament claiming to be God (many statements are allegorical).
- While He was called many times son of man and son of God, not once was He called God the son!
I – Some examples of claimed divinity:
1) I and the Father are one(John 10:30): Oneness in purpose, not in essence(John 17:11, 20:23)
2) Seeing Him is like seeing the Father (Jn 14:9): Seeing means knowing, as God can’t be seen (Exodus.33:20, Jn.I:18, 5:37).
3) Accepted worship (Mk 14:33): worship means also intense love (worship of money…)Jesus himself did worship God(Luke 5:16).
4) Was called Son of God: So was Adam(Luke 3:38), Jacob(Exodus 4:22), Solomon(I Chron.22:10).David was called the begotten son of God(Ps 2:7,etc. ‘Son of God’ means rather ‘servant of God’ because everybody in the Bible is called son of God.
5) Called Savior: So was Jeho’ahaz (II KINGS 13:5). Used in plural(Obad. Verse21,and Nehem 9:27).
6) Was called Lord: Term does not mean necessarily God. Used in the N.T to mean “teacher” or “master”.
7) Was filled with the Holy Spirit: So was John the Baptist(Luke 1:15), also Barnabas (acts 11:24)
8) On the other hand, Jesus did nothing and spoke nothing on his own authority(Matt 20:23, Jn 14:10, etc.).
9) Was tempted (Matt 4:1-11): But God cannot be tempted(James 1:13).
10) Prayed to God and made distinction between Him and the Father (M, 14:32. Lk.5:16, Matt23:8-10, 27:46).
11) Did not accept to be called Good and deffered to God(Mk. 10:18).
12) He denied the knowledge of the unseen(everything) (Mk. 13:32, Matt24:36).
13) His miracles can’t be used to claim divinity [ cast out devils : so did others(Matt. 7.22, Lk. 11:19); born without a father: so did Eve without a mother; brought the dead to life: so did others(I Kings17:22, Ezek 37:1-14).
All Prophets produced specific miracles to challenge the people of their time.

II – Jesus according to Jesus:1) Anyone can call God “Father” according to the Bible : …my father and your father(John 20:17 RSV 1952, Romans 8:15 KJV 1611, Mattehew 23:1-9 NIV 1984).2) He made it clear that he is not God (Mark 10:18).
3) He depends on God for authority: God depends on no one(John 5:30, 14:31 RSV, 8:28 RSV).
4) He is not equal to “The Father” (John 14:28).
5) He didn’t raise himself up but God raised him up(Acts 2:24).
6) Jesus did not know the tree had no fruit (Mark 11:12-13).7) He referred to as Servant of God (Matthew 12:28, Acts 3:13, Acts 4:27).8) It was God the real worker of miracles, not Jesus (Acts 2:22 KJV)
9) Jesus said, “..,Hear, O Israel: our God is one Lord.” ( Mark 12:29)
10) “ For there is one God , and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”( I Timothy 2:5 )
11) “…and there is none other God but one.” ( I Corinthians 8:4). This can be used to refute the verse “In the beginning was the word” John 1:1
12) “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines made by men.” Matthew 15:9. Jesus has foretold that people will worship him uselessly.

III – Conclusion:
1) The old testament warns against describing creatures with Godly qualities. (I Corinthians 8:4)
2) Jesus confirmed the same and called the “Father” : “My God” (John :20:17).
3) Today, only through the final revelation for the whole of mankind (the Qur’aan) can confusion be removed and pure monotheism be restored : God the Almighty Allaah has over a hundred beautiful names and attributes which make him a perfect Creator. It is essential to note that describing God with human qualities and vice-versa is an insult or a blasphemy.
Many people ignore that the Quran was revealed to confirm the titles of Jesus and to preserve his dignity and honour and as a matter of fact there is a whole chapter in the Qur’an entitled ‘Mary’.
“ O people of the scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messaiah Issa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and his word (Be! – and he was) which He bestowed on Mary and a spirit created by him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers, Say not: “Three(trinity) Cease it is better for you. Allaah is only one God, glory be to him above having a son. To him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is all-sufficient as Defendant” Quran 4:171

Brothers in islam it would be a good Idea if we compare the islamic teachings in regards 'Issa alaihi salam with the bible, the dead sea scrolls, and the cuneiform tables found by German excavators in 1943.

Allaah knows best
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kadafi
02-15-2005, 05:10 PM
:sl:

Great article bro.
Reply

hawk
02-16-2005, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Dhahabi
Assalamu alaikum

Brothers in islam the topic of 'issa alaihi salam is very crucial and I would like to contribute to a better understanding of the true and the real message of 'Issa alaihi salam.
'Issa alaihi salam said,
“ But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines made by men.” Matthew15:9
'Issa[PBUH] had foretold that people will worship him uselessly and believe in man made beliefs.

Matthew 15:3-9 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2“Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!”
3Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’[b] 5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6he is not to ‘honor his father[c]’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8“ ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me. 9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’[d]”

10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ ”

Isaiah 29:13 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


13 The Lord says:

"These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men


Firstly Jesus isnt Prophesying anything, its Isaiah he is quoting.
Jesus is just saying, you say you respect your parents,
Then you withhold from your parents, and say, we give to God.
However, you are not doing the right thing.

Read the words about clean and unclean, you might learn something form them

http://forums.understanding-islam.or...0799#post20799
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hawk
02-16-2005, 06:42 PM
Dhahabi, please research before you post.

Your post is conjecture and really, not even worth refuting, since it is copy pasted from websites, that quote out of context.

Like the quotes you have posted above.

There is no inconsistency in the trinitarian belief.

Join us here if you have something to say, because i cannot post in 2 places.

http://forums.understanding-islam.or...0799#post20799
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kadafi
02-16-2005, 08:01 PM
Firstly Jesus isnt Prophesying anything, its Isaiah he is quoting.
Jesus is just saying, you say you respect your parents,
Then you withhold from your parents, and say, we give to God.
However, you are not doing the right thing.

Read the words about clean and unclean, you might learn something form them
Is it me or is Hawk clutchin' at straws. A grossly mis-interpretated statement you got there my friend in order to delude us that what you're statin' must be the correct one.

Now the passage you quoted *Isaiah 29:13) is referrin' to Isaiah attackin' the hypocrites 'cause "their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men". Jesus re-quotes the same passage two times (One in Matthew, and one in Mark) in his attack upon the traditions of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law. Paul attacks those who submit to ethical rules that are not pre-defined by God (see Col. 2:20-23, Rom. 14:1 and Cor. 8–10 Proverbs 1:7; 9:10; 15:33, Ecclesiastes 12:13ff,Isaiah 33:6, Jeremiah 7:24; 11:8; 13:10,16:12; 18:12; 23:17; 1 Cor. 1:18-2:16; 3:18-23)
Let me finish the passages of Mark that Jesus re-quotes:

7:7 Their worship of me is empty, because they teach human rules as doctrines.'

7:8 You abandon the commandment of God and hold to human tradition."

7:9 Then he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your own tradition!

7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Whoever curses his father or mother must certainly be put to death.'

Why don't you finish the discussion here since you piqued my interest by presentin' odd interpretations.

Also - thread is moved to Comparative Religion sub-forum
Reply

Khattab
02-16-2005, 08:32 PM
This is a beautiful quote by one of our beloved prophets jesus (peace and blessing be upon him) confirming that men would worship him through false and corrupted doctrines
Reply

hawk
02-16-2005, 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by kadafi

Now the passage you quoted *Isaiah 29:13) is referrin' to Isaiah attackin' the hypocrites 'cause "their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men". Jesus re-quotes the same passage two times (One in Matthew, and one in Mark) in his attack upon the traditions of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law. Paul attacks those who submit to ethical rules that are not pre-defined by God (see Col. 2:20-23, Rom. 14:1 and Cor. 8–10 Proverbs 1:7; 9:10; 15:33, Ecclesiastes 12:13ff,Isaiah 33:6, Jeremiah 7:24; 11:8; 13:10,16:12; 18:12; 23:17; 1 Cor. 1:18-2:16; 3:18-23)
Let me finish the passages of Mark that Jesus re-quotes:

7:7 Their worship of me is empty, because they teach human rules as doctrines.'

7:8 You abandon the commandment of God and hold to human tradition."

7:9 Then he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your own tradition!

7:10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Whoever curses his father or mother must certainly be put to death.'

Why don't you finish the discussion here since you piqued my interest by presentin' odd interpretations.

Also - thread is moved to Comparative Religion sub-forum
5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with ‘unclean’ hands?”

6He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me. 7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’[b] 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.”

9And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’[e] 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’ ”[f]


What is Jesus talking about here?

He isnt talking about the christians, changing their beliefs.

He is saying you "nullify" the word of God, handed down to you, through your actions, It doesnt say anything about worshipping Him, out of context.

"They worship me in vain"

Means
-not dont worship me

but

of what use is that worship, if your actions are bad!!!

Can you see, he says ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.

meaning, they say I am their God, however their intentions (hearts)are distant from me.
Reply

kadafi
02-17-2005, 01:31 PM
5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with ‘unclean’ hands?”

6He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me. 7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’[b] 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.”

9And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’[e] 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’ ”[f]


What is Jesus talking about here?

He isnt talking about the christians, changing their beliefs.

He is saying you "nullify" the word of God, handed down to you, through your actions, It doesnt say anything about worshipping Him, out of context.

"They worship me in vain"

Means
-not dont worship me

but

of what use is that worship, if your actions are bad!!!

Can you see, he says ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.

meaning, they say I am their God, however their intentions (hearts)are distant from me.
Deceive methods of interpretations. I find it odd that you disregard the real meanin' of the verses in Mark, and the verses of Paul who attacked those who submitted to the ethical rules that are not pre-defined by God.

Jesus is givin' a example of THOSE who alter their beliefs. He attacked the Pharisees that they changed the commandments of God but that same context can applied to the present-day Christians. Bear in mind that accordin' to Christianity, the present-day Bible is a moral guide for Christians. Historical episodes that are mentioned in the Bible should be classified as a moral lesson.

You stated:
Can you see, he says ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.

meaning, they say I am their God, however their intentions (hearts)are distant from me.

You still didn't grasp the concept that I'm tryin' to elucidate. Present-day Christians are followin' doctrines that are alien to the real Christianity. For example, Catholics 'worship' Mary (three types of worship).
Reply

hawk
02-17-2005, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by kadafi
Deceive methods of interpretations. I find it odd that you disregard the real meanin' of the verses in Mark, and the verses of Paul who attacked those who submitted to the ethical rules that are not pre-defined by God.
Dont be silly.

I gave you the proper interpretation of the verse.
Its a waste of time to dialogue with people like you because you dont want to see what Christianity is really all about.
Reply

Khattab
02-17-2005, 03:03 PM
Or you cant provide an answer
Reply

hawk
02-17-2005, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Amir
Or you cant provide an answer
An answer to what?

I told you your interpreatation is incorrect.
Reply

Dhahabi
02-17-2005, 06:57 PM
[QUOTE=hawk]Dhahabi, please research before you post.

Your post is conjecture and really, not even worth refuting, since it is copy pasted from websites, that quote out of context.

Like the quotes you have posted above.

There is no inconsistency in the trinitarian belief.


salaamah

Brother in islam it is not copy pasted from websites. It took me ages to gather the information in it. It is true that I refered to many websites such as the Life of Nimrod that few people knw today.

Below is the end of my own research:


Jesus(on whom be peace) according to the Gospel of Barnabas ( translated early 20th century) in comparison to the Dead Sea scrolls (found in 1947) ,the Qur’aan and the Bible
The Gospel of Barnabas is the true Gospel for it was written by Barnabas an eye witness and an apostle of Yushuah(Jesus) whereas the four Gospels according respectively to Luke, Matthew, Mark and John whose surnames are unkown, were written decades after Jesus left. In order to prove its authenticity someone can go to the Hofbibliothek in Vienna for there it has rested since 1738 and the manuscript is in Italian. I will quote you in a concise manner many conclusive points from the last chapters of the book.

C 14 - Jesus chooseth twelve apostles : Andrew and Peter his brother, fisherman, Barnabas who wrote this, with Matthew the publican; John and James, sons of Zebedee; Thaddaeus and Judas; Bartholomew and Philip; James, and Judas Iscariot the traitor.

C 205 - He went (Judas) to find the high priest, who assembled in council of priests, scribes, and Pharisees; to whom Judas spake saying: “What will ye give me, and I will betray into your hands Jesus, who would fain make himself king of Israel”. They promised to give him thirty pieces of Gold.
C 206 - Whereupon the High priest drew near , saying: “Tell me, O Jesus, hast thou forgotten all that thou didst confess, that thou art not God, nor son of God, nor even the Messiah? (In comparison to the Dead Sea Scrolls the Messiah here means the ‘kingly Messiah’ which the Jews were waiting for, but Jesus was the ‘priestly’ Messiah who came to fulfil the torah.). Jesus answered: “…,I have not forgotten; for this my confession before God on judgement day…”
C 207 – Jesus answered : “ Wherefore, for this cause the devil stirreth up the world against me (for he is against Nimrodism), because I am not of this world (negating the title ‘kingly’ Messiah otherwise Jesus is called the Messiah son of Mary even in the Qur’an), but I seek that God may be Glorified (worshipped alone).”
C 208 – The High priest asked: “ who was this son of Abraham ?” Jesus answered: “…Verily I say, the son of Abraham was Ishmael , from whom must be descended the Messiah promised to Abraham ( alluding to Muhammad or the ‘kingly’ Messiah as mentioned earlier)”. Nicodemus counselled Jesus to tarry out of Jerusalem for the Pharisees wanted to slay him (they accused him of blasphemy).
C 213 – Jesus said, “ Verily I say unto you that one of you shall betray me (fulfilment of prophecy Psalm
7:15)….He shall fall into the pit which he had prepared for others.” Then, he said to Judas: “Do quickly that which thou must do.”
C 214 – Jesus retired into the garden to pray, bowing his knees and prostrating himself upon his face (Islamic way to pray). Judas went to the high priest and told him about the place where Jesus was.
C 215 – When the soldiers with Judas drew near to the place where Jesus was four angels came and took Jesus out by the window and placed him in the third heaven in the company of angels. When Judas entered before all into the chamber whence Jesus had been taken up and the disciples were sleeping, God the Almighty changed him in speech and in face to be like Jesus.(The rest of the story is similar to the four Gospels : The only difference resides in considering that it was Judas who got spat on, humiliated and crucified. This corroborates the verse in the Quran 4:157 with regards Jesus “They slew him not , nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them.”C 217 – The Governor Pilate marvelled when Judas told him that Jesus transform him with his magic. Pilate told to the Pharisees to take him to be judged by Herod (a gentile) the king of Galilee who sent him back to Pilate. Even though Judas was scourged, he didn’t die for God reserved him for the cross. The scribes and the Pharisees condemened two robbers with him to the death of the cross ( working it out to get a similar story compared to Babylonian passion play).

C 218 – Some weak disciples went by night and stole the body of Judas and hid it, spreading a report that Jesus was risen again (another fabrication about resurrection!)
C 219 – After hearing the news, the Virgin returned to Jerusalem with him who writeth (Barnabas),James
and John. So, the angels that were guardians of Mary ascended to recount to Jesus in the third heaven.
Wherefore Jesus prayed God to give him power to see his mother and his disciples. Then God The Almighty commanded his four favourite angels to bear Jesus into his mother’s house, and keep watch over him for three days continually (fulfilment of prophecy Matthew 12:40).

Among others, Jesus met his mum with her two sisters, and Martha and Mary Magdalene and Lazarus, and him who writeth, and John and James and Peter.
C 220 – Then the four angels narrated to the Virgin how God Exalted be He had transformed Judas, that he might suffer the punishment to which he had sold another. Jesus said to Barnabas: “… I will be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross until the advent of Muhammad who shall reveal this deception to those who believe in God’s law”
C 221 – And Jesus turned himself to Barnabas, and said, “…thou write my gospel in like manner that which hath befallen Judas, in order that the faithful may be undeceived,…” The third day Jesus said, “ Go to the Mount of Olives with my mother, for there will I ascend again unto heaven,…” “For God hath granted me to live almost unto the end of the world” And his prayer ended, he embraced his mother, saying: ‘Peace be unto thee, my mother, rest thou in God who created thou and me’. Then, he turned to his disciples, saying: ‘May God’s grace and mercy be with you’ Then before their eyes the four angels carried him up to heaven.
C 222 – After Jesus had departed, the truth hated, of Satan, was prosecuted, as it always is, by falsehood.
For certain evil men, pretending to be disciples, preached that Jesus died and rose not again. Others preached that he really died but rose again. Others preached, and yet preach, that Jesus is the son of God, among whom is Paul deceived. But we, as much as I have written , that preach we to those who fear God, that they may be saved in the last day of God’s Judgement. Amen.


Alleged crucifixion of Jesus (on whom be peace)
Let me give you a quick summary of many points from the Bible proving that Jesus was not killed on the cross even if we consider it was him the one put upon the cross for the unknown writers of the gospels believed Judas (transformed by God the Almighty to be Jesus in face and speech) to be really Jesus. However, it is impossible to think that Jesus could have been crucified for it discredits his prophethood if we refer to the following verses from the Bible:
“ And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and thou hang him on , his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shall surely bury him that same day; for he who is hanged [on a tree] is accursed by God [for being worthy of such death ], that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.” Deuteronomy 21: 22-23 See also Hosea 6:6 and Matthew 12 : 7
The Jews claimed they killed him to prove he was a false prophet which they still believe because he refused to go along with their ‘Nimrodism’ and the man who intoduced ‘sacrifice’ or ‘atonement’ as a belief is Paul (Saul the Jew): He abolished the Torah [ Acts 13:39 ] whereas Jesus came to fulfil the Torah (‘priestly’ Messiah) [Matthew 23 : 2-3]

A – Regarding Judas the traitor who has been taken for Jesus by the authors of the gospels ( In the following verses I would use the name of Judas the traitor instead of the name of Jesus [PBUH]):

1. Pilate knew that Judas was not guilty [ b ecause he told him that Jesus changed him with magic which is a good reason to try to keep him alive. However, Pilate let him down because he was given a bribery] John 13:38
2. Judas was probably alive on the cross because he was fastened only three hours(no one dies for such short time).
3. Immediately came there out blood and water which was a sign that Judas (scourged) was alive.
4. Dr Primrose testified that the “water and blood” was a sure sign that Judas was alive!
5. Judas was possibly alive because his two “crossmates” were alive. John 19:32
6. Encyclopedia Biblica under article “cross”-column 960, says : “when the spear was thrust Judas was alive”.
7. Judas was possibly still alive during the earthquake and darkening of the sun(within3hours)
8. The Jews suspected that he had escaped death on the cross – that he was alive. Matthew 27:62-64
9. Pilate “marvels” to hear that Judas was dead and suspected that he was alive. Mark 15:44
10. Stone and “winding sheets” had to be removed necessary only if Judas was alive.[ all these statements declaring Judas (believed to be Jesus) to be alive is an effort to classically condition people to accept the Babylonian passion play !] John 20:1
11. German scientists who checked the ‘shroud of Turin’ affirmed that his heart was still functioning.
12. The sepulchre was a big roomy chamber close at hand [ Some weak disciples went by night and stole the body of Judas who the most likely died in the sepulchre in order to proclaim the alleged resurrection of Jesus ]

B – Regarding Jesus [PBUH] as stated being alive in the bible :1. Jesus has worked out a strategy of defence to remain alive. Luke 22:36
2. He beseeched God the Almighty to keep him alive. Matthew 26:39
3. God accepted his prayers to keep him alive. Hebrew 5:7
4. Pilate’s wife dreamt that Jesus won’t be harmed. Matt 27:19
5. An angel was promising him that God will save him alive [ four angels took him to third heaven] Luke 22:43
6. He was ever in disguise which necessary only if he was alive (not resurrected) [He was brought back to the earth from heaven and four angels were watching him for three days] John 21:4
7. Forbade Mary Magdalene to touch him because he was alive. John 20:17
8. “Not yet ascended unto my father” which means “ I am not dead” [During the three days] John 20 : 17
9. Mary Magdalene wasn’t afraid because she saw Jesus alive John 20:16
10.The disciples knew the “crucifiction” from hearsay, therefore they couldn’t believe Jesus was alive
11. He ate food again and again which is necessary only if he was alive! Luke 24:43
12. He never showed himself to his enemies after he had escaped death [ back from heaven]. So, He was alive
13. He took only short trips because he wasn’t resurrected, nor spiritualised, but alive!
14. Some men testified (around the tomb): “Why seek ye the living among the dead” [ The body of Judas had been already taken from the sepulchre and those who work from the shadows to make Nimrodism prevail on earth had already spread the news that Jesus was risen again while Jesus was still in heaven]
Luke 24 : 4-5

15. The angels didn’t say he was resurrected but said he was alive. Luke 24:23
16. Mary Magdalene testified to the disciples she didn’t see a ghost or a spirit but the Master alive. Mark 16:11
17. Jesus himself foretold that his miracle will be the miracle of Jonah : “ For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” [As it was mentioned in chapter 219 of the gospel of Barnabas the ‘heart of the earth’ means the most likely the holy land in the middle east and not the sepulchre or the grave for he was in the third heaven : He definitely spent three days and three nights in Jerusalem and then ascended to heaven.] Matthew 12:40
The Babylonian passion play: A conspiracy against Jesus

As proved previously the crucifixion should rather be called cruci-fiction. If someone refers to the January 1922 edition of “Quest” which describes the tablets belonging to the cuneiform documents which were discovered by German excavators in 1903 at Kalah Shargat, the site of the ancient Assur ( ex Babylon) formed in the 9th century BC, he would be astonished by the fact that the story of Nimrod (the ruler of Babylon : Bel or Baal) and the Christian passion story are one and the same.



The alleged beliefs attributed wrongfully to Jesus (on whom be peace)

1 – Atonement, original sin:
Nimrod used to consider the act of production of children as a ‘ call of the sinful flesh’. Therefore, according to him, every child was born out of a “sinful” act between the parents, hence everyone has been born “sinful”!
Moreover, the pagan Nimrod (4200yers) declared himself as “sinless” and infallible (to make people think backwards and do any crime and get away with it) because his mother claimed that she conceived him without any male intervention, that’s why he has chosen to be called the begotten son of God or God incarnate.
Similarly, the doctrine of atonement adopted by the Church three centuries after Jesus left the earth, contradicts both the Qur’aan and the Bible. On the one hand, according to Islamic texts, every child is born pure and sinless with Islamic monotheism and his parents will corrupt him in the future and if he dies before the age of puberty he will be in paradise because God the Almighty is Just. So, Adam and Eve were responsible for their own sin, which have been forgiven by God. On the other hand, redemption of sin through the cruci-fiction (another Nimrod’s legacy) is not Jesus teaching:
- “ The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither the children be….” Jeremiah 31:30
- “ But everyone will die for his own iniquity…” Ezekiel 18:20
- “..For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged…” Matthew 7:1and 2
- “… everyman will receive his own reward according to his own labour…” I Corinthians 3:8
Consequently, anyone can conclude the following:
- Jesus was not crucified (he didn’t die on the cross) nor was he resurrected.
- It is nonsensical to believe that a God commits a suicide or to entertain that God dies (we seek refuge).
- Why should we be held responsible for the sin of Adam and Eve which has been already forgiven?
- How can human beings be condemned before they do anything ?.

2 – The sign of the Cross

Nimrod won the title “Tam-Muz” or “Fire,the perfector” when he threw Abraham into the fire. The initial letter “Tau” of “Tam-Muz” was written in Hebrew script as an upright sign of the cross. So, the sign of the cross was the initial letter of Nimrod or “Tammuz” and it has nothing to do with any Prophet of God. By 70 BC a cross has been discovered in Ireland which used to represent Mithraism or Nimrodism : It was already preached that the divine son born (Mithra or Nimrod) of the virgin mother who had come to save sinners had been killed on a cross. Therefore, the symbol of the cross was here in the west long centuries (539 BC) before Christianity ever arrived. The sign of the cross was used as a sacred symbol to ward off evil because Nimrod preached that he would be raised from the dead to the position of “lamb of heaven” when the sun crossed the equator making the sign of the cross at the spring equinox. Encyclopedia Americana 1929/v8/p238 –Crabb’s Mythology/p163 – etc.

3 - Easter
Normally, Easter varies from around the 21st March up to the 19th of April, as it follows the sun’s cycle (Collins, table of movable feasts). The followers of Nimrod used to celebrate the spring equinox (Easter) because according to them Nimrod was conceived in the womb of his mother nine months before the 25th of December.
On the other hand, the alleged resurrection of Jesus on Sunday morning contradicts the prediction of Jesus who said that he will remain three days in the heart of the earth. Otherwise, the so-called Sunday morning should rather have been a Monday evening. This contradiction proves that Jesus didn’t resurrect but resuscitated!

3 - Baptism
Nimrod preached that he was initiated to be baptised from the sacred fount of Euphrates and Tigris : According to him these sacred waters had the power of removing instantly all the dirty evil deeds of a person and he would become immediately clean and pure regardless how bad and heinous are the sins! This form of purification has been prevalent among millions of Hindus (three head-God religion or trinity : Brahma,Vishnu and Shiva) and others throughout the world 2000 years before the coming of Jesus.

4 – Celibacy
Nimrod won the title “sacred heart” or “Baal” (chaldean) for teaching to keep the heart pure from worldly marriage and observe celibacy which is against the teaching of all prophets of God. In reality his aim was to avoid the birth of Abraham because his fortune tellers interpret one of his dreams as follows : A child is on the way to be born who will challenge him and cause him a violent death. So, even though his people observed celibacy for nearly two years Abraham was the only child to be born!
5 - The swine flesh
To express his hate against this person ( the Prophet Abraham PBUH) who would be the cause of his death by violence, Nimrod used to abuse him as a swine. Accordingly, to express his revenge in advance against this “would-be-killer” he and his followers enjoy eating swine flesh at all their feasts!
According to the Bible as well as to the Quran, eating pork has never been the habit of any prophet of God.
“ And the swine, he is unclean to you. Of the flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you” Leviticus 11:7-8 See also Deutronomy 14:8
In addition to bacteria , worms (tapeworm,the trichina roudworm, etc.), pork is the main carrier of the following germs and parasites wich can cause important deseases: tapeworms, hookworms, faciolopsis Buski, paragonimus, Clonorchis sinesis, and Erysipelothrix Rhusiophatiae)
Conclusion:
Many people today ignore the fact that the true story of the long awaited Messiah (Jesus or Yushuah or Issa) [PBUH], to be born of a virgin as a sign to all human beings which is the will of God the Almighty to enable them to repent from previous paganism (The mother of Nimrod was a ----- for marrying her own son whereas Mary was a real virgin and a pious woman), was a currency long before his arrival. So by the time the Messiah did appear, they wanted him to be what he was not (He declared himself to be the servant of God). Then, when they couldn’t get him to go along with their earlier Nimrodism or Godhood; they tried to kill him.

Can you tell me your opinion on the above article please? [ I know you know better than me]. Thanks
regards, :thumbs_up
Reply

hawk
02-18-2005, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Dhahabi

Can you tell me your opinion on the above article please? [ I know you know better than me]. Thanks
regards, :thumbs_up
Ok, its junk Dhahabi, give up these farfetched theories.

Its like the theory that it was the CIA that blew up the worldtrade centre buildings alongwith the Jews
Reply

Khattab
02-18-2005, 11:19 PM
[QUOTE=Dhahabi]
Originally Posted by hawk
Dhahabi, please research before you post.

Your post is conjecture and really, not even worth refuting, since it is copy pasted from websites, that quote out of context.

Like the quotes you have posted above.

There is no inconsistency in the trinitarian belief.


salaamah

Brother in islam it is not copy pasted from websites. It took me ages to gather the information in it. It is true that I refered to many websites such as the Life of Nimrod that few people knw today.

Below is the end of my own research:


Jesus(on whom be peace) according to the Gospel of Barnabas ( translated early 20th century) in comparison to the Dead Sea scrolls (found in 1947) ,the Qur’aan and the Bible
The Gospel of Barnabas is the true Gospel for it was written by Barnabas an eye witness and an apostle of Yushuah(Jesus) whereas the four Gospels according respectively to Luke, Matthew, Mark and John whose surnames are unkown, were written decades after Jesus left. In order to prove its authenticity someone can go to the Hofbibliothek in Vienna for there it has rested since 1738 and the manuscript is in Italian. I will quote you in a concise manner many conclusive points from the last chapters of the book.

C 14 - Jesus chooseth twelve apostles : Andrew and Peter his brother, fisherman, Barnabas who wrote this, with Matthew the publican; John and James, sons of Zebedee; Thaddaeus and Judas; Bartholomew and Philip; James, and Judas Iscariot the traitor.

C 205 - He went (Judas) to find the high priest, who assembled in council of priests, scribes, and Pharisees; to whom Judas spake saying: “What will ye give me, and I will betray into your hands Jesus, who would fain make himself king of Israel”. They promised to give him thirty pieces of Gold.
C 206 - Whereupon the High priest drew near , saying: “Tell me, O Jesus, hast thou forgotten all that thou didst confess, that thou art not God, nor son of God, nor even the Messiah? (In comparison to the Dead Sea Scrolls the Messiah here means the ‘kingly Messiah’ which the Jews were waiting for, but Jesus was the ‘priestly’ Messiah who came to fulfil the torah.). Jesus answered: “…,I have not forgotten; for this my confession before God on judgement day…”
C 207 – Jesus answered : “ Wherefore, for this cause the devil stirreth up the world against me (for he is against Nimrodism), because I am not of this world (negating the title ‘kingly’ Messiah otherwise Jesus is called the Messiah son of Mary even in the Qur’an), but I seek that God may be Glorified (worshipped alone).”
C 208 – The High priest asked: “ who was this son of Abraham ?” Jesus answered: “…Verily I say, the son of Abraham was Ishmael , from whom must be descended the Messiah promised to Abraham ( alluding to Muhammad or the ‘kingly’ Messiah as mentioned earlier)”. Nicodemus counselled Jesus to tarry out of Jerusalem for the Pharisees wanted to slay him (they accused him of blasphemy).
C 213 – Jesus said, “ Verily I say unto you that one of you shall betray me (fulfilment of prophecy Psalm
7:15)….He shall fall into the pit which he had prepared for others.” Then, he said to Judas: “Do quickly that which thou must do.”
C 214 – Jesus retired into the garden to pray, bowing his knees and prostrating himself upon his face (Islamic way to pray). Judas went to the high priest and told him about the place where Jesus was.
C 215 – When the soldiers with Judas drew near to the place where Jesus was four angels came and took Jesus out by the window and placed him in the third heaven in the company of angels. When Judas entered before all into the chamber whence Jesus had been taken up and the disciples were sleeping, God the Almighty changed him in speech and in face to be like Jesus.(The rest of the story is similar to the four Gospels : The only difference resides in considering that it was Judas who got spat on, humiliated and crucified. This corroborates the verse in the Quran 4:157 with regards Jesus “They slew him not , nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them.”C 217 – The Governor Pilate marvelled when Judas told him that Jesus transform him with his magic. Pilate told to the Pharisees to take him to be judged by Herod (a gentile) the king of Galilee who sent him back to Pilate. Even though Judas was scourged, he didn’t die for God reserved him for the cross. The scribes and the Pharisees condemened two robbers with him to the death of the cross ( working it out to get a similar story compared to Babylonian passion play).

C 218 – Some weak disciples went by night and stole the body of Judas and hid it, spreading a report that Jesus was risen again (another fabrication about resurrection!)
C 219 – After hearing the news, the Virgin returned to Jerusalem with him who writeth (Barnabas),James
and John. So, the angels that were guardians of Mary ascended to recount to Jesus in the third heaven.
Wherefore Jesus prayed God to give him power to see his mother and his disciples. Then God The Almighty commanded his four favourite angels to bear Jesus into his mother’s house, and keep watch over him for three days continually (fulfilment of prophecy Matthew 12:40).

Among others, Jesus met his mum with her two sisters, and Martha and Mary Magdalene and Lazarus, and him who writeth, and John and James and Peter.
C 220 – Then the four angels narrated to the Virgin how God Exalted be He had transformed Judas, that he might suffer the punishment to which he had sold another. Jesus said to Barnabas: “… I will be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross until the advent of Muhammad who shall reveal this deception to those who believe in God’s law”
C 221 – And Jesus turned himself to Barnabas, and said, “…thou write my gospel in like manner that which hath befallen Judas, in order that the faithful may be undeceived,…” The third day Jesus said, “ Go to the Mount of Olives with my mother, for there will I ascend again unto heaven,…” “For God hath granted me to live almost unto the end of the world” And his prayer ended, he embraced his mother, saying: ‘Peace be unto thee, my mother, rest thou in God who created thou and me’. Then, he turned to his disciples, saying: ‘May God’s grace and mercy be with you’ Then before their eyes the four angels carried him up to heaven.
C 222 – After Jesus had departed, the truth hated, of Satan, was prosecuted, as it always is, by falsehood.
For certain evil men, pretending to be disciples, preached that Jesus died and rose not again. Others preached that he really died but rose again. Others preached, and yet preach, that Jesus is the son of God, among whom is Paul deceived. But we, as much as I have written , that preach we to those who fear God, that they may be saved in the last day of God’s Judgement. Amen.


Alleged crucifixion of Jesus (on whom be peace)
Let me give you a quick summary of many points from the Bible proving that Jesus was not killed on the cross even if we consider it was him the one put upon the cross for the unknown writers of the gospels believed Judas (transformed by God the Almighty to be Jesus in face and speech) to be really Jesus. However, it is impossible to think that Jesus could have been crucified for it discredits his prophethood if we refer to the following verses from the Bible:
“ And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and thou hang him on , his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shall surely bury him that same day; for he who is hanged [on a tree] is accursed by God [for being worthy of such death ], that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.” Deuteronomy 21: 22-23 See also Hosea 6:6 and Matthew 12 : 7
The Jews claimed they killed him to prove he was a false prophet which they still believe because he refused to go along with their ‘Nimrodism’ and the man who intoduced ‘sacrifice’ or ‘atonement’ as a belief is Paul (Saul the Jew): He abolished the Torah [ Acts 13:39 ] whereas Jesus came to fulfil the Torah (‘priestly’ Messiah) [Matthew 23 : 2-3]

A – Regarding Judas the traitor who has been taken for Jesus by the authors of the gospels ( In the following verses I would use the name of Judas the traitor instead of the name of Jesus [PBUH]):

1. Pilate knew that Judas was not guilty [ b ecause he told him that Jesus changed him with magic which is a good reason to try to keep him alive. However, Pilate let him down because he was given a bribery] John 13:38
2. Judas was probably alive on the cross because he was fastened only three hours(no one dies for such short time).
3. Immediately came there out blood and water which was a sign that Judas (scourged) was alive.
4. Dr Primrose testified that the “water and blood” was a sure sign that Judas was alive!
5. Judas was possibly alive because his two “crossmates” were alive. John 19:32
6. Encyclopedia Biblica under article “cross”-column 960, says : “when the spear was thrust Judas was alive”.
7. Judas was possibly still alive during the earthquake and darkening of the sun(within3hours)
8. The Jews suspected that he had escaped death on the cross – that he was alive. Matthew 27:62-64
9. Pilate “marvels” to hear that Judas was dead and suspected that he was alive. Mark 15:44
10. Stone and “winding sheets” had to be removed necessary only if Judas was alive.[ all these statements declaring Judas (believed to be Jesus) to be alive is an effort to classically condition people to accept the Babylonian passion play !] John 20:1
11. German scientists who checked the ‘shroud of Turin’ affirmed that his heart was still functioning.
12. The sepulchre was a big roomy chamber close at hand [ Some weak disciples went by night and stole the body of Judas who the most likely died in the sepulchre in order to proclaim the alleged resurrection of Jesus ]

B – Regarding Jesus [PBUH] as stated being alive in the bible :1. Jesus has worked out a strategy of defence to remain alive. Luke 22:36
2. He beseeched God the Almighty to keep him alive. Matthew 26:39
3. God accepted his prayers to keep him alive. Hebrew 5:7
4. Pilate’s wife dreamt that Jesus won’t be harmed. Matt 27:19
5. An angel was promising him that God will save him alive [ four angels took him to third heaven] Luke 22:43
6. He was ever in disguise which necessary only if he was alive (not resurrected) [He was brought back to the earth from heaven and four angels were watching him for three days] John 21:4
7. Forbade Mary Magdalene to touch him because he was alive. John 20:17
8. “Not yet ascended unto my father” which means “ I am not dead” [During the three days] John 20 : 17
9. Mary Magdalene wasn’t afraid because she saw Jesus alive John 20:16
10.The disciples knew the “crucifiction” from hearsay, therefore they couldn’t believe Jesus was alive
11. He ate food again and again which is necessary only if he was alive! Luke 24:43
12. He never showed himself to his enemies after he had escaped death [ back from heaven]. So, He was alive
13. He took only short trips because he wasn’t resurrected, nor spiritualised, but alive!
14. Some men testified (around the tomb): “Why seek ye the living among the dead” [ The body of Judas had been already taken from the sepulchre and those who work from the shadows to make Nimrodism prevail on earth had already spread the news that Jesus was risen again while Jesus was still in heaven]
Luke 24 : 4-5

15. The angels didn’t say he was resurrected but said he was alive. Luke 24:23
16. Mary Magdalene testified to the disciples she didn’t see a ghost or a spirit but the Master alive. Mark 16:11
17. Jesus himself foretold that his miracle will be the miracle of Jonah : “ For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” [As it was mentioned in chapter 219 of the gospel of Barnabas the ‘heart of the earth’ means the most likely the holy land in the middle east and not the sepulchre or the grave for he was in the third heaven : He definitely spent three days and three nights in Jerusalem and then ascended to heaven.] Matthew 12:40
The Babylonian passion play: A conspiracy against Jesus

As proved previously the crucifixion should rather be called cruci-fiction. If someone refers to the January 1922 edition of “Quest” which describes the tablets belonging to the cuneiform documents which were discovered by German excavators in 1903 at Kalah Shargat, the site of the ancient Assur ( ex Babylon) formed in the 9th century BC, he would be astonished by the fact that the story of Nimrod (the ruler of Babylon : Bel or Baal) and the Christian passion story are one and the same.



The alleged beliefs attributed wrongfully to Jesus (on whom be peace)

1 – Atonement, original sin:
Nimrod used to consider the act of production of children as a ‘ call of the sinful flesh’. Therefore, according to him, every child was born out of a “sinful” act between the parents, hence everyone has been born “sinful”!
Moreover, the pagan Nimrod (4200yers) declared himself as “sinless” and infallible (to make people think backwards and do any crime and get away with it) because his mother claimed that she conceived him without any male intervention, that’s why he has chosen to be called the begotten son of God or God incarnate.
Similarly, the doctrine of atonement adopted by the Church three centuries after Jesus left the earth, contradicts both the Qur’aan and the Bible. On the one hand, according to Islamic texts, every child is born pure and sinless with Islamic monotheism and his parents will corrupt him in the future and if he dies before the age of puberty he will be in paradise because God the Almighty is Just. So, Adam and Eve were responsible for their own sin, which have been forgiven by God. On the other hand, redemption of sin through the cruci-fiction (another Nimrod’s legacy) is not Jesus teaching:
- “ The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither the children be….” Jeremiah 31:30
- “ But everyone will die for his own iniquity…” Ezekiel 18:20
- “..For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged…” Matthew 7:1and 2
- “… everyman will receive his own reward according to his own labour…” I Corinthians 3:8
Consequently, anyone can conclude the following:
- Jesus was not crucified (he didn’t die on the cross) nor was he resurrected.
- It is nonsensical to believe that a God commits a suicide or to entertain that God dies (we seek refuge).
- Why should we be held responsible for the sin of Adam and Eve which has been already forgiven?
- How can human beings be condemned before they do anything ?.

2 – The sign of the Cross

Nimrod won the title “Tam-Muz” or “Fire,the perfector” when he threw Abraham into the fire. The initial letter “Tau” of “Tam-Muz” was written in Hebrew script as an upright sign of the cross. So, the sign of the cross was the initial letter of Nimrod or “Tammuz” and it has nothing to do with any Prophet of God. By 70 BC a cross has been discovered in Ireland which used to represent Mithraism or Nimrodism : It was already preached that the divine son born (Mithra or Nimrod) of the virgin mother who had come to save sinners had been killed on a cross. Therefore, the symbol of the cross was here in the west long centuries (539 BC) before Christianity ever arrived. The sign of the cross was used as a sacred symbol to ward off evil because Nimrod preached that he would be raised from the dead to the position of “lamb of heaven” when the sun crossed the equator making the sign of the cross at the spring equinox. Encyclopedia Americana 1929/v8/p238 –Crabb’s Mythology/p163 – etc.

3 - Easter
Normally, Easter varies from around the 21st March up to the 19th of April, as it follows the sun’s cycle (Collins, table of movable feasts). The followers of Nimrod used to celebrate the spring equinox (Easter) because according to them Nimrod was conceived in the womb of his mother nine months before the 25th of December.
On the other hand, the alleged resurrection of Jesus on Sunday morning contradicts the prediction of Jesus who said that he will remain three days in the heart of the earth. Otherwise, the so-called Sunday morning should rather have been a Monday evening. This contradiction proves that Jesus didn’t resurrect but resuscitated!

3 - Baptism
Nimrod preached that he was initiated to be baptised from the sacred fount of Euphrates and Tigris : According to him these sacred waters had the power of removing instantly all the dirty evil deeds of a person and he would become immediately clean and pure regardless how bad and heinous are the sins! This form of purification has been prevalent among millions of Hindus (three head-God religion or trinity : Brahma,Vishnu and Shiva) and others throughout the world 2000 years before the coming of Jesus.

4 – Celibacy
Nimrod won the title “sacred heart” or “Baal” (chaldean) for teaching to keep the heart pure from worldly marriage and observe celibacy which is against the teaching of all prophets of God. In reality his aim was to avoid the birth of Abraham because his fortune tellers interpret one of his dreams as follows : A child is on the way to be born who will challenge him and cause him a violent death. So, even though his people observed celibacy for nearly two years Abraham was the only child to be born!
5 - The swine flesh
To express his hate against this person ( the Prophet Abraham PBUH) who would be the cause of his death by violence, Nimrod used to abuse him as a swine. Accordingly, to express his revenge in advance against this “would-be-killer” he and his followers enjoy eating swine flesh at all their feasts!
According to the Bible as well as to the Quran, eating pork has never been the habit of any prophet of God.
“ And the swine, he is unclean to you. Of the flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you” Leviticus 11:7-8 See also Deutronomy 14:8
In addition to bacteria , worms (tapeworm,the trichina roudworm, etc.), pork is the main carrier of the following germs and parasites wich can cause important deseases: tapeworms, hookworms, faciolopsis Buski, paragonimus, Clonorchis sinesis, and Erysipelothrix Rhusiophatiae)
Conclusion:
Many people today ignore the fact that the true story of the long awaited Messiah (Jesus or Yushuah or Issa) [PBUH], to be born of a virgin as a sign to all human beings which is the will of God the Almighty to enable them to repent from previous paganism (The mother of Nimrod was a ----- for marrying her own son whereas Mary was a real virgin and a pious woman), was a currency long before his arrival. So by the time the Messiah did appear, they wanted him to be what he was not (He declared himself to be the servant of God). Then, when they couldn’t get him to go along with their earlier Nimrodism or Godhood; they tried to kill him.

Can you tell me your opinion on the above article please? [ I know you know better than me]. Thanks
regards, :thumbs_up

Nice post Dhahabi :thumbs_up
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
02-19-2005, 01:26 AM
very factual dhahabi! :)
Reply

Dhahabi
02-26-2005, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by hawk
Dont be silly.

I gave you the proper interpretation of the verse.
Its a waste of time to dialogue with people like you because you dont want to see what Christianity is really all about.
Assalamu alaikum

Agreed. can you do the same at:
http://forums.understanding-islam.or...p?t=947&page=3

May Allaah bless you
Reply

Dhahabi
03-02-2005, 09:05 PM
Assalamu alaikum dear brothers and sisters:

As I am not going to refute every detail you are write because it is a waste of time.
The only thing that does matter is to speak about the main guidelines and points that you have not yet dealt with.
As I am going to tackle four or five points in regards to Trinitarian belief please read carefully before refuting me and belive that your techniques cannot impress me or defeat me as I am thick skinned.

I – What Allaah The Almighty says about you Hawk in chapter 9:

30. And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allâh. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. ...., how they are deluded away from the truth![]

31. They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allâh (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allâh), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilâh (God - Allâh) Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He)[]. Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."
32. They (, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allâh's Light (with which Muhammad SAW has been sent - Islâmic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allâh will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kâfirûn (disbelievers) hate (it).
33. It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islâm), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) hate (it).
34. O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder (them) from the Way of Allâh (i.e. Allâh's Religion of Islâmic Monotheism). And those who hoard up gold and silver [Al-Kanz: the money, the Zakât of which has not been paid], and spend it not in the Way of Allâh, -announce unto them a painful torment.
I think the verses are very explicite.

II – The concept of Trinity is alien to the way of All Prophets

The Concept of Trinity – ‘The Father. The Son and and The Holy Ghost was not unique to Christianity.

1. The Egyptians also believed in the trinity consisting of Osiris, his wife Isis (Great virgin/Mother of God)[God forbids] and their son hours. The cult of Isis even flourished in imperial Rome
2. The Hindu Trinity comprised of Vishnu (the preserver), Shiva (the destroyer) and Brahma (soul and origin of the universe).
3. The Persian trinity consisted of Ormazd, Mithra and Ahriman.
4. The trinity is also found in other pagan religions of China, Peru and Mexico.
5. The Mexican trinity consists ofYzona the Father, Bacab the Son and Echvah the Holy Ghost.
When Vasco Da Gama first reached India he mistook a Hindu temple for the church of ‘Chrestian’ . He entered the temple and knelt in prayer before a statue of a mother holding a child – Devaki nursing Krishna
In order to avoid pasting from websites further details can be seen at:
ancient paganism:
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/l...s-say/ch3.html

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/...-say/ch3.1.html

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/....h3.2.htmlpagan origin of holidays:
http://www.govsux.com/pagan_origins.htm
babylonian paganism:
http://bupc.montana.com/whores/babypag.html
Jewish encyclopedia:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/v...id=295&letter=N

How can a Prophet of Allaah [how far is imperfection from Him] who is from the same lineage as David and Moses emerge out of the blue and promote a dogma that is contrary to All Prophets? Does it make sense? Of course it does not as Allaah the Almighty says,

“Allâh chose Adam, Nûh (Noah), the family of Ibrâhim (Abraham) and the family of 'Imrân[family of Mary] above the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinns) (of their times).”
“Offspring, one of the other, and Allâh is the All-Hearer, All-Knower.” 3:33-34
From of old, from the very beginning, Allaah has spoken of Himself as a Unity, without any reservation that He is speaking of Himself as the Father only, and that there are two other contemporary and equal Persons with Him from all eternity. Moses declared to Israel:
"Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord" (Deut. vi. 4).
And this proves to be the keynote of the whole of the Bible.

The declaration of Moses, receives its confirmation and endorsement at the hands of Jesus Christ when He repeats the very words to the Scribes of later Israel:
"The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark xii. 29)


I have just notice while writing now that surah 3 speaks much more about the family of Mary in order to refute the trinity. Also amazingly enough the surah entitled ‘women’ clears and defends the character of the family of Mary.
There is an identical message in the Qur’an and the bilble [Mark Xii.29 and Deu IV 4 mentioned above]: Al-Ikhlâs or Verbal monotheism {different than Hinduism}

In the Name of Allâh, the Most
Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
1. Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allâh, (the) One.
2. "Allâh-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."
The point is, we Muslims, we use the Qur’aan as standard to rectify the changes made in the previous scrptures.

III - Trinity does not exist in the Bible:

The trinity is not biblical, was never taught by ‘Issa or Essau and was never mentioned by him.
There is no proof for its acceptance. Rather, it was formulated by Athanasius {Egyptian priesthood} and was accepted in A.D 325 by the council of Nicea more than 300 years after ‘Issa had left.

Binitarianism and trinitarianism
http://ccg.org/english/s/p076.html

unitarian and trinitarian wars:
http://ccg.org/english/s/p268.html

Frequently asked questions
http://ccg.org/english/s/p003.html

Forum refuting trinity
http://gawaher.com/forum/index.php?...=20&#entry90052

refuting trinity osama abdullaah
http://www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm

IV – Unitarian and Trinitarian Wars:

If you claim that Catholicism is a monotheistic religion can you tell me why these wars broke up and they had lasted for nearly 700 years?

When Constantine came to power he attempted to unify the empire under one system and he sought to do that through Christianity. What he did not realize was that the Roman faction was not the dominant faction and that the doctrines of the church had become confused from those of the original church. This confusion led to a series of wars between two factions, both of which contained doctrinal error. The end result of this doctrinal error and desire for political domination through religion was continuous war and persecution for seventeen hundred years. The error and conflict will ultimately bring the planet to total ruin.
The details can be seen at:
http://ccg.org/english/s/p268.html

V – The Creed of Nicea is the origin of the trinity:

Taken from the book, "What did Jesus Really Say?"
Can you tell me why twelve million Christians were put to death by the church as heretics in the trinity ? To my mind trinity is falsehood and these were Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad Sallal Allahu alihi wa sallam informed us about the saved sect of ‘Issa or Essau PBUH.

In the above historical analysis, we learned that in 325C.E., the Trinitarian church set forth the doctrine of homoousious meaning: of CO-EQUALITY, CO-ETERNITY, AND CONSUBSTANTIALITY of the second person of the trinity with the Father.
The doctrine became known as the Creed of Nicea. But they also went on to develop the doctrine of "blind faith." This is because those who developed the "Trinity" doctrine were unable to define it in any manner that could not be refuted by the unwavering Unitarians Christians through the Bible.
In the beginning they tried to defend the "Trinity" through logic and the Bible. This continued for a long time until the Trinitarian church finally gave up on ever substantiating their claims through the Bible. So they demanded blind faith in their doctrines.

Anyone who did not believe blindly and dared to question them would be branded a heretic and tortured or killed. The following is only a small sampling of the verses of the Bible which refute this definition:

Co-equality:

Jesus and God can not be co-equal because the Bible says:
"... my Father is greater than I" John 14:28
Obviously if God is greater than Jesus (pbuh) then they can not be equal. We also read:
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." Mark 13:32
If Jesus and God were equal then it follows that they will be equal in knowledge. But as we can see, God is greater in knowledge than Jesus (pbuh).

Co-eternity:
God is claimed to have "begotten" Jesus (pbuh). Jesus (pbuh) is claimed to be the "Son" of God. "Beget" is a verb which implies an action. No matter how you define what God actually did in order to "beget" Jesus (pbuh), any definition must require that God Almighty performed some action and then Jesus (pbuh) came into being.
Before God performed this action Jesus was not.
After God performed this action Jesus came into being. Thus, not only is Jesus (pbuh) not eternal, since there was a time (before the "begetting") when he did not exist, but he can also never be co-eternal with God since God was in existence at a time when Jesus was not. This is very simple grade-school logic.


Consubstantiality:

First go back and read the comments on co-equality and co-eternity. Next, remember when Jesus is claimed to have died? (Mark 15:37, John 19:30). If God and Jesus are one substance then God died also. But then who was governing all of creation? Remember:
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."Luke 23:46
If Jesus and God were "one substance" then Jesus (pbuh) would not need to send his spirit to God because it is already God's own spirit, who is also Jesus.

Remember:
"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt" Matthew 26:39

And "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." John 5:30
If Jesus and God were one substance then this ONE substance must only have ONE will.

Futher, remember:
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"Matthew 27:46
If Jesus and God are one substance then how can ONE substance forsake itself? Why would ONE substance need to pray to itself?

Tom Harpur says: "The idea of the Second Person of a Holy Trinity knowing what it is to be God-forsaken has only to be stated to be recognized as absurd" For Christ's Sake, pp. 45.
Even explaining the supposed "Trinity" away as a "mystery" does not hold water. In 1 Corinthians 14:33 we read "For God is not [the author] of confusion." Thus, confusion can never be His very nature.
THIS is why blind faith was demanded, and THIS is why twelve million Christians were put to death by the church as heretics in the notorious Church "Inquisitions" (Apology for Muhammad and the Qur'an, John Davenport).
When was Trinity introduced ?http://www.antipas.org/books/pwhite_...ec1_chap4.html
http://www.antipas.org/books/pwhite...sec1_chap3.html

VI – Absurdities in the trinity

The following article was sent by brother Johonny Bravo; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
"Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third. Each of these persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two. So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son and the Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make one God. According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three, and three time one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if we take two from three, three are left. The addition is equally peculiar: if we add two to one we have but one. Each one equal to himself and to the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity." insha'Allaah

Allaah is the All-Knowing the All-Hearing
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evangel
08-18-2006, 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by Dhahabi
Assalamu alaikum

Brothers in islam the topic of 'issa alaihi salam is very crucial and I would like to contribute to a better understanding of the true and the real message of 'Issa alaihi salam.
'Issa alaihi salam said,
“ But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines made by men.” Matthew15:9
'Issa[PBUH] had foretold that people will worship him uselessly and believe in man made beliefs.
Here are what Jesus and Isaiah said:

Matthew 15:1-11
Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,
"Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat." He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die.’ But you say, ‘If any one tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, he need not honor his father.’ So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’" And he called the people to him and said to them, "Hear and understand: not what goes into the mouth defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."

Isaiah 29:13-15 And the Lord said: "Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips,
while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men learned by rote; therefore, behold, I will again do marvelous things with this people, wonderful and marvelous; and the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the discernment of their discerning men shall be hid." Woe to those who hide deep from the LORD their counsel, whose deeds are in the dark, and who say, "Who sees us? Who knows us?"


Jesus is referring to a statement made by Isaiah. Isaiah and many of the Old Testament’s prophets speak to the same subject consistently; No one truly honors God, they honor their sacrifices over anything else. God says in the Old Testament He values obedience over sacrifices. This is important because the sacrifices were the only way to cleanse the people of sin. He wanted their hearts though, He wanted relationship with His people and not sacrifices that were just paying lip service to Him. The last line in Isaiah says that as long as no person sees what they do in the dark they are fine, they only go so far as to appear righteous before men.
Both Jesus and Isaiah speak to the Jews of their substituting the laws and traditions for God instead of applying the laws and traditions to honor God.
If I were to memorize an entire book on how to rebuild an engine and did not apply the knowledge does that make me a mechanic? No, just as the Jews memorized Scripture and tradition but did not apply it from their heart.
Jesus is speaking of a Jewish tradition of making possessions Corban. This meant that people would make there possessions, usually the things passed on to them by their parents before they died in the expectation that they would be cared for when they were old (they didn't want to be a burden), in the service of God. They wouldn’t have to actually give it over, it was like a reserve but they would not be allowed to use it for anything else (such as seeing to the needs of their elderly parents). Once their parents passed on they would release it from being Corban, hence they were honoring a tradition instead of honoring God.
Jesus addressed the Pharisees many times on this. He called them hypocrites because because they paid lip service to the law but did not actually obey.
W.C. Fields, a hard drinking and coarse comedic actor of the 20’s and 30’s, towards the end of his life was seen reading the Bible. When asked about it he said, “Just looking for loop holes.” If we are reading a contract to see how easily we can escape the terms of the contract (looking for loop holes) then we are not truly abiding by the terms of the contract. Jesus told the Pharisees this is how they were treating their covenant with God.
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