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The month of Ramadhan [is that] in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights [the new moon of] the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and [wants] for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful. [2:185]
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  1. #1
    hasan52's Avatar
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    Islam & dropshipping

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    salam wa alaikum -Brothers and Sisters . I Am new To this forum and have a very Important Question To do with my current Situation Regarding Islamic Business Transactions.
    I Would Like to Invest In A Business And sell A load of Products Online and i would Like to Use a Method Which Is called Dropshipping Which I know Is Not Permissible In Islam .
    Most of you Will Know What dropshipping is , for Those Who Dont - its basically a product that you sell which You do Not phsyically Posess for e.g buy sell for (£12), once it is Sold
    You then ( Seller ) Purchase The Product From the manufacturer or wholesaler Yourself for.eg (£10)
    , they Then (manufacturer or wholesaler) Ship the Product Directly To Your Customer - With out You Physically having it . and The Profit Being £2 for Yourself. -
    Now i know the Hadeeth Says "DO NOT SELL THAT WHICH YOU DO NOT POSSES" - which Is fine - However i Do know They are some halal Alternatives And way Around This - For example Transforming it
    In to a salam transaction - where you receive payment first - then buy the product - which you then pyhysically posess yourself and delivering Goods to the customer - Other allternative Is to Act As a broker/agent And Gain
    Comission On these Types Of transaction. Now i have Searched Other Forums LIKE " ASKIMAM.ORG AND ISLAMQA.ORG " And they Say direct Dropshipping Is not permissble Unless You Turn It in to a salam Transaction And You State To the Customer That The goods Are Not physically With You and that
    You Are ADVERTISING These Products And will arrange For Its delivery But do Not physically Posses The Product Themselves.This Wil then Qualify For You to Have The wholesale Or manufacturer Post/ship Directly To the customer Without You Physically Posessing. (As Your verifying to customer You Do Not have the Product Yourself)
    the Item Along with turning It in to salam transaction If You Understand What I am trying to say . I need Confirmation If this Is allowed Before I go in To this Business. As Other Types Of Income Like affiliate Marketing which That do Have a similiar Strategy To this
    are Allowed Becuase In affiliate Marketing You are Advertising TThe Product - and once it sells - You gain a commision - Again without You touching The product of phsyically Having or shipping it WHICH IS HALAL because
    You are simply Advertising it . Now thats what these forums Are saying where as if you turn it in to explaning You are advertising this Product and will arrange for its delivery iT WILL BECOME PERMISSIBLE.
    Obviously The difference between this and affiliate Marketing Is that They Pay You first and then You Pay the wholesaler for the product and To ship direct customer - where as affilate
    i think it goes direct to the Core seller and then you get a commision Becuase You advertised it succesffully Hence The sale . the Point im trying to make is that - with
    affilaite Marketing - You do not touch the Products or have anything to do with it - But is halal - why? Becuase You are Just advertising the products to gain a commision if it sells through your advert.
    Dropshipping In a way is a little Different - But does It become Halal if i say to the customer along the lines of - "you will be paying for the delivery of these good which i can arrange For You" -
    As im Not saying i phsyically Have Them - as the hadith says "Do Not sell that which You do not posess" I wont Be saying I posess these Items - I Will be telling them the truth that they
    will be paying for the service Of Me arranging These Products to be delivered to them . Also - For my Effort and time - services - would This Be allowed tO sell and gain Profit as My services - time and
    effort Are being Used for basically - i could Add My profit On top of the Wholesale Price to sell to the customer becuase of My services - time and effort. Would all This BE allowed
    in the shariah To use any of these reasons for me to start this Business .
    Any comments And Posts and opinions Would Be welcomed and appreciated . But i would Also Like a scholar To inform Me if Any of these reasons Would Be allowed . If so Or if Not- could anyone or
    any scholar Provide Me on detailed alternatives and Steps On something simialir Which is halal - Or maybe Tweak and change a few Steps In this exact Procedure to make it halal.


    I would really greatly APPREICATE IT if i could Get a reply as I have Been stressing over this Topic.
    Also below is The Link - Of the forums Who said its Permissble Unless you State You Will have delivery of good arranged for them and that You do Not phsycially Have it .




    This is what askimam and islamqa had to say


    "In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
    As-salamu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullahi wa-barakatuh.
    1-Drop Shipping works in two different ways. The way expressed in the question is not clear. Hereunder are the two ways in which drop shipping is normally done.
    Seller “A” advertises an item on the website such as e-bay. “A” does not have the item in his possession at the time of the advertisement. Purchaser “B” answers to this advertisement and places his order by paying the amount to “A”. Once “A” receives the order and payment into his account either via Paypal or a similar service, “A” further places an order to the wholesale merchant (drop shipper) “C” at a wholesale price. “C” then dispatches the merchandise to “B” while “A” keeps the difference of listed price and wholesale price as his profit.
    This way of drop-shipping is not permissible since “A” is selling an item which is not in his possession.[1]
    The shariah compliant alternative for this form of drop-shipping is to do the transaction through the model of “Salam”. In Salam after receiving the money, “A” (muslam ilayh) will purchase the item from the wholesaler “C” and then make “C” his agent to deliver the item to “B”. The process would remain same except for that the following information will have to be explicitly advertised.
    · Seller “A” would have to pronounce in his advertisement beforehand that he is not in possession of the item and will arrange its delivery once the rabbul maal “B” has paid the money.
    · Complete description of the item being sold will have to be advertised.
    · The time duration for delivery will have to be advertised.


    JZk khair Everyone

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    ardianto's Avatar
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Wa'alaikumsalam, brother Hasan.

    There was a bad habit among some traders during the time of Rasulullah. When they found customer seek some goods which not available, they told the customers that they could provide the goods that they want. These traders took money from the customers and started to seek these goods.

    This is what called "selling something that not under possession". This is impermissible, of course, because it could turn into fraud. Imagine if after the traders took money, the goods were not available?.

    And how about dropshipping?.

    Dropshipping is system of sales which the goods owner give authority to other party as retailer to promote, offer, and sell these goods to the customers. If a customer want to buy something. the customer can order and pay through to retailer. Then the retailer give this money to the goods owner, in accordance to the amount that the goods owner must receive. Then the goods owner send the goods to the customer.

    Is it permissible?. Does it fall into "selling something that not under possession"?.

    There is method in Fiqh which called "Qiyas" (analogy). Now notice, in dropshipping the retailer hold an authority from the goods owner to sell the products. So, if we use Qiyas, position of the retailer in this matter is same as sales representative of the goods owner. Same as salesman who work in a company, and there is no prohibition to work as salesman.

    Different than if the retailer does not hold authority from the goods owner as sales representative.

    About payment. The retailer in dropshipping actually does not buy products from the owner, but just hold an authority to receive payment, then give this payment to the goods owner in amount that according to the agreement which the retailer can take the profit. This is permissible if there is agreement between the products owner and the retailer. It's not different than authority that given to the sales representative to take payment from the customers.

    Conclusion: dropshipping is permissible, but any party should not violate agreement that can make transaction become impermissible.

    The violation that can be happen in the retailer party are
    - The retailer tell the customers that he/she is the goods owner, not just sales representative.
    - The retailer sell goods that not available.

    So my advice to avoid these violations is

    - Do not ever lie to the customers which you tell them that these goods are belong to you.

    - Always contact the goods owner before making transaction to make sure that the product which your customer wants is available. Tell them to reserve this goods for your customer. So, although the goods is not belong to you, if the goods has reserved for your customer, this goods technically is under your possession.

    Hopefully it will help.

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    ardianto's Avatar
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    I'm sorry if I used few wrong words. In example, I use "customer" instead of "consumer/buyer", or "retailer" instead of "reseller". It's because my habit, and English is not my first language.

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    hasan52's Avatar
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    JAAKALLAH AT Adrianto - Aprreciate the reply - so in essence it is allowed - but you have to state that your basically an agaent and can arrange delivery for the goods - also you mentioned about there must be an agreement from the manufacturer and the retailer -
    what about if i saw something on another site which was cheap - and wanted to sell it on my site - and i still mention that i will arrange delivery and and do not hold physical goods - yet there is no contact agreement between me and the manufacturer - but once the buyer has bought it - i will straight away purchase the product and give the buyers adress to the manfucaturer so he can send directly to the customer . if all goes well and successfull - would this still be permissble ? jazakallah
    also dont worry about your english - its probably better then mine and im from england haha!!

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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Did you write a reply?.

    Please log-in and write again through your account because your post doesn't appear.

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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Hi yes i did - My reply Was Jzk Khair - for reply - So in conclusion Dropshipping Is halal as Long as You have a contract with the wholesaler and that you have to specifically state You dont have the goods and that you can arrange the goods to be delivered? also few More questions - can You dropship with a wholesaler which they dont have knowledge - for e.g. you sell some good which you recive payment for and the buyer knows you dont have the goods and that you will arrange for delivery - but the wholesale you are getting it from does Not know its dropshipping - im just getting it from him . but me and the buyer knows exactly whats going on - just the wholesale does Not which is kind of irrelevant.
    and do not worry my English is probably worse and im from england haha
    jzk

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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Dropshipping require a contract between the wholesaler who have the goods and the reseller who sell the goods. So, in this matter the position of the reseller is representative of the wholesaler. Not different than salesman who become representative of the company in selling goods to the buyer. Without contract, this is not dropshipping, or at least, not a legal dropshipping.

    In dropshipping, if the reseller get an order, the reseller must tell the wholesaler about this order. And after the buyer make a payment, the wholesaler deliver the goods to the buyer. So, delivery process is arranged by the wholesaler, not the reseller. The payment process itself is depend on the agreement. There are wholesaler that obligate the buyer to pay directly to the wholesaler bank account, there are wholesaler that allow the reseller to receive payment and then send it to the wholesaler bank account. It's permissible because under agreement.

    also few More questions - can You dropship with a wholesaler which they dont have knowledge - for e.g. you sell some good which you recive payment for and the buyer knows you dont have the goods and that you will arrange for delivery - but the wholesale you are getting it from does Not know its dropshipping - im just getting it from him . but me and the buyer knows exactly whats going on - just the wholesale does Not which is kind of irrelevant.
    Do you mean you promote and offer other party goods although you don't have contract/agreement with the goods owner?.

    This is not permissible because this is a speculation. Imagine if after you get a buyer, the goods owner refuse to sell his goods to you?. The reason behind prohibition to sell something that we don't posses is this speculative factor.

    We are not allowed to sell other party goods, but we are allowed to become representative of the goods owner to sell something. Of course, with agreement between us and the goods owner.

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    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Assalamu'alaikum wr wb,

    I would advise you to carefully read through "the book of barter" available in Sahih Muslim and Bukhari which will inshaAllah clarify many points and give you a decent criterion to judge by.


    http://www.iium.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/010_smt.html

    Bear in mind that almost every transaction is different and most have similarities, your task is to be sincere and do your best to gain knowledge and utilize it.
    Its also not just a one size case of drop shipping and depends on what you're selling as can be seen here:

    Sahih Muslim
    Book 10, Number 3635:Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who buys a goat with its udder tied up has the option to retain the goat if he so desires or return it within three days, and in case he returns it he should do so along with a sa'a of dates.
    Here are some points to consider:

    1.
    The promissory notes you are forced to withdraw are unlawful to begin with and your only excuse is inability (though God's earth is vast), which immediately presses the need to support khilafah and turn to physical gold and silver coin and other real commodities.

    Book 10, Number 3652:
    Abu Huraira (Allah be please with him) is reported to have said to Marwan: Have you made lawful the transactions involving usury?
    Thereupon Marwan said: I have not done that.
    Thereupon Abu Huraira (may peace be upon him) said: You have made lawful the transactions with the help of documents only, whereas Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade the transaction of foodgrains until full possession is taken of them. Marwan then addressed the people and forbade them to enter into such transactions (as are done with the help of documents). Sulaiman said: I saw the sentinels snatching (these documents) from the people.
    2.
    People were allowed to take payment for ripe fruits in advance as long as it was for a fixed measure of fruit for a fixed measure of gold or silver.
    (i recall there was something about the quality too).


    3.
    Carpenters and similar contractors often have and do bargain a price of a finished item/building/road/bridge with material included, i am unsure of the permissibility.
    Though the transaction is obviously clearer if one separartes the price of goods from labour.

    4.
    In todays age of global online marketing (which is a benefit) many things need to be debated by scholars to see what fits with the spirit of Islam, and this is difficult to do sincerely and thoroughly when scholars toe the line under kafir and munafiq governments - hence the need to support the khilafah and begin the process of mending.

    Again- reading the book of barter clarifies much if you are able to see clear contextual similarities, for instance, the islamic ruling on casting selling (without touching) is applied by ebay (probably via intellect) in that they give 7 days on "buy it now" to ensure the customer is satisfied with the item (last time i checked) and "not as described" even in auction etc.

    mutual exceptions can be made in certain circumstances to give additional facility provided both the buyer and seller are not seeking to cheat each other.


    Book 10, Number 3656:
    Ibn 'Umar (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying :
    Both parties in a business transaction have the right to annul it so long as they have not separated; except in transactions which have been made subject to the right of parties to annul them.

    May Allah give you success in sincerely researching and trading, and leaving the forbidden for the sake of Allah and trusting in His wisdom.

    Peace.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 07-16-2014 at 10:00 PM.
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    ardianto's Avatar
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    What is dropshipping and how it work?. I'll give an illustration.

    I produce t-shirts, my friend an internet marketer and he is interested to sell my t-shirts in internet. Then we make agreement. My friend promote and offer my products in his website. If he can get buyer I will give him commision.

    A buyer who visit his website interested to buy my t-shirt. Then my friend tell me about this order. I prepare the item that the buyer want and tell my friend that this item has ready. My friend make transaction, and the buyer send the payment to my bank account. After I receive the payment I send this t-shirt to the buyer, directly from my shop.

    My friend position in this business is marketer and also salesman. When he promote and offer my products, he is a marketer. And he does sales because he make transaction, as my representative. But he can make transaction only after I told him that the item which the buyer want is ready. So in this matter there is guarantee that the goods is available when the transaction happen.

    After transaction I send the goods directly to the buyer adress without involve my friend. In dropshipping, the goods send directly to the buyer by the goods owner. This is why this system called drop shipping. Different than in multi level marketing which the goods send to the marketer and the marketer send again it to the buyer.

    Of course, if something happen in shipping process like the goods lost or damaged, or the goods is different that what the buyer want, this is fully responsibility of the goods owner, not the marketer.

    I hope this illustration can give clear image of dropshipping.

    My side job is internet marketer. But I only promote digital products (ebook and program). While my main job is courier agent of a big courier company in Indonesia. Around a half of packages that send through my office are goods online shops. Yes, I have much customers from online shops which some of them have marketers through dropshipping system. I never meet those marketers because the package always sent by the online shop owners. By the way, mostly of those online shop owners and marketers are female.
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    I recall once buying a necklace from a jeweller in Makkah and i offered him pounds as i didn't have enough riyals.

    He immediately held it up in the air and said: hadha amaanah.
    It seemed he was protecting himself from the risk of falling into usury by holding it as a trust until he converted it. Seemed like a wise move in the circumstances.

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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    eslalamualjkum muslim brother
    i have long time in researching for dropshipping i started dropshipping affter read your comment but i need for someone to talk more about dropshipping in your free time can you sent me your gmail o facebook name hasan 52 and ardianto
    i am waitting your response and wa sallamu aljkum

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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    eslalamualjkum muslim brother
    i have long time in researching for dropshipping i started dropshipping affter read your comment but i need for someone to talk more about dropshipping in your free time can you sent me your gmail o facebook name hasan 52 and ardianto
    i am waitting your response and wa sallamu aljkum

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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by llogari View Post
    eslalamualjkum muslim brother
    i have long time in researching for dropshipping i started dropshipping affter read your comment but i need for someone to talk more about dropshipping in your free time can you sent me your gmail o facebook name hasan 52 and ardianto
    i am waitting your response and wa sallamu aljkum
    Assalamualaikum, brother. Welcome to the forum.

    I am not a dropshipper and not owner of an online store. I am the owner of a courier agent which some of my clients are online stores. They use my service to send their goods to the buyers. Some of those online stores implement droshipping system. If I know about dropshipping, it's because I am also an affilate marketer and I have observed dropshipping.

    If you want to discuss about dropshipping or about business in internet you can discuss in this forum. So other people can contribute too in discussion. In Shaa Allah, we will gain more knowledge about business in internet.


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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    thanks my brother
    I started dropshiping i know listing but i have problem for now to find supplier , what i need to doing to bay list of supplier or to make list
    i need for someone to advice about dropshipping
    i search any muslim dropshiper to cooperate and talk with them.can you help me to find any muslim dropshiper.
    thanks ardianto

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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by llogari View Post
    thanks my brother
    I started dropshiping i know listing but i have problem for now to find supplier , what i need to doing to bay list of supplier or to make list
    i need for someone to advice about dropshipping
    i search any muslim dropshiper to cooperate and talk with them.can you help me to find any muslim dropshiper.
    thanks ardianto
    Due to difference of location I can't tell you where to find supplier. What I can tell you is how to find supplier.

    In which position are you?. The online store owner?, or the dropshipper that offer the online store's goods?.

    If you are the online store owner you can order home industries near you to produce goods that you want to sell like t-shirt, shoes, bags. You need to have your own design. You need to have stock which it's mean you need to have enough capital, although actually you also can offer goods by order. I mean, you receive an order first, then you tell your supplier to make the goods which ordered. One of my client sell shoes through this way. Of course you must honest that the goods which you offer are not ready stock, but the buyer must wait.

    If you are in position which you just offer goods from online stores, then you can get suppliers through contact the online stores. Just browse the web. Some of online stores announce openly that they accept dropshipper who want to join. Some do not announce openly. In online stores that announce openly you just fill application and then you can start work. In online stores that do not announce openly you must contact them, talk with them, then they will consider. All of my online stores client do not announce openly, but they accept people who want to become their dropshipper. Of course, not every online store accept dropshipper.
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    thanks for respone
    yes i research about types of dropshipping i like broker dropshiper i sell item of whosaler i listing in auctions in ecommerce website an i sell product i take some % from selling
    Does this method works

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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by llogari View Post
    thanks for respone
    yes i research about types of dropshipping i like broker dropshiper i sell item of whosaler i listing in auctions in ecommerce website an i sell product i take some % from selling
    Does this method works
    The right question in business is not "will it work?", but "how to make it work?'. You must not think "if I sell shoes, will people buy?", but you must think "I want to sell shoes. Then, how to make people buy?". Then try to find the right method of marketing and sales.

    Back to dropshipping. Actually your main challenge is not getting the suppliers, but getting the buyers. There are many suppliers that need help from people to sell their products. Many of those product actually can 'sell themselves'. So what you need to do is display those products in your site. And people who see those products will buy if they regard those products as good, and the price is worth. But people will never buy products that you offer if they never see those products.

    Indeed, you need to have a website to display the offered products. If you offer 'hard products' like clothes or bag, you need to display their photos. If you offer 'soft products' like program or e-book, you need to give information about benefit of those products. You can use paid website, or free blogspot (wordpress is forbidden for business), or you can even use facebook.

    Now, how to get buyer?.

    One thing you need to know. Internet world is different than the real world. In the real world, if you wanted to sell burger, you could build a burger stall beside a street where people pass on it. People who pass would see your burger stall, and then they would be interested to buy. But in internet you cannot expect the passerby.

    The common mistake of people who try business in internet is they think like business in the real world. They make attractive websites, but they don't do something to redirect internet users to visit their websites. So, there's no visitor, there's no sales. Yes bro, in internet you cannot expect people will accidentaly see your website and then visit, but you must redirect the visitors to visit your website.

    At least there are three methods to redirect visitors. First is advertise your website. Through advertisment many people will know your website. But I do not suggest it for beginners because it need cost that usually is big.

    The second is 'play' with search engine. Maybe you have heard that with the right keyword, your website will appear in good position in search engine. It's true. But actually you must 'play' with words too, not just with keyword. Do you know?, what make people visit a website is not its position in search engine, but the excerpt that show information about this website, and often quoted from the article in this website. If you use paid website then you can use SEO plugin. There are paid SEO plugins, there are free SEO plugins.

    The third method is active in social medias, like facebook, where you can meet and acquainted with people, then you can invite them to visit your website. majority of dropshipper of my online store clients use this method. You can try this method too, bro.

    Yeah, business in internet is not as easy as people assume. You have to always learn and improve your business skill. And my advice is, do not see this difficulty as barrier, but see it as challenge.

    May Allah give easiness in your dropshiiping business.

  22. #18
    llogari's Avatar
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    thanks ardianto
    can you sent my any muslim dropshiper from indonesia to talk in gmail or facebook
    i will talk more to learn more abour dropshiping

  23. #19
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    Quote Originally Posted by llogari View Post
    thanks ardianto
    can you sent my any muslim dropshiper from indonesia to talk in gmail or facebook
    i will talk more to learn more abour dropshiping
    I am sorry brother, due to privacy reason I can't give you private access to few online seller who I know. But if you want to learn more about dropshipping you can visit or join dropshipper forum. There are few dropshipper forums which you can find in the web. I have visited some of those forums. It's okay if you want to learn from those forums. Although they are non-Muslims, they don't teach something that against Islam.


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  25. #20
    llogari's Avatar
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    Re: Islam & dropshipping

    thank ardianto ok can you sent my url or name or dropship forums


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