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  1. #1
    Junon's Avatar
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    Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

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    Salaam

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    One of the miracles of Islam are the rules of riba (interest, usury). Many students who for the first-time study these rules think they are a burden to the economy and question wisdom to why we exchange money for money in equal amounts and on the spot. Sometimes even ask if there is a place for such restrictions in a modern economy? In this clip, we analyze the power of Islamic economic principles regarding the ban on riba by looking at the root causes of the Global Financial Crisis.



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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    I watched this guy's presentation yesterday since it was on the first page that youtube pushed up after the curiosity on the issue was peaked - i have to say that although he did mention a few important points - he completely bypassed the fundamental problems of usury and went on to the problems of credit default swaps and insurance - whereas the problem of CDOs only arises after the problem of artificial inflation of the market via basic usury.
    His references pointed to the movie "the big short" - and his mention of the waitress strengthened this observation.
    One of the issues he did highlight whether inadvertently or not - i don't know - is that the usury system actually attains around equal purchasing power on the loans which it creates - and this proves the share in criminality of those who take out loans on usury - since the fact that the loan was taken out actually allowed for an equal amount of property to be syphoned off the market every 25 years or so, and since the new amount of fiat money produced to keep the system going and repaying loans with added "interest" also inflates the economy and reduces purchasing power of the common people (who previously held that fiat paper or who sweat to get that paper) with every unit of newly "minted" (printed) or otherwise conjured fiat currency (directly comparable to precious metal coin counterfeiting), along with the fact that an equal amount of property (equivalent to that on which loans were taken out) has disappeared into the usurious banking system, and along with the fact that all new fiat currency added to the system also hits the market with the understanding that non-existent currency will be re-paid as "interest" (leading to inevitable asset seizures) - it is obvious that the usury system is reliant on political corruption since the mathematical totals prove that it is a ponzi scheme backed up by the threat of government truncheons.

    One clear evidence of the corruption is the fact that in london where the scam is primarily run - the local security guards of the banks are portrayed as "city police" even though they take over investigations from the metropolitan police as soon as the sniffer dogs reach the square mile and its surrpundings.

    Those so called "cops" are answerable to the "city fathers" who give them anything they need - and whenever a politician demands that the "city police" be incorporated into the met - all hell breaks loose - with prominent freemasons within politics and also the met claiming that it's ok as it is.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:42 AM.
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    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    This guy managed to completely miss the point. Who cares if some bankers screw other bankers? The only issue with this is that in 2008, bankers were bailed out who should have gone bankrupt.

    There are 2 real problems with interest. One is that it often bankrupts poor people. The other is fractional banking which causes economic instability. This guy managed to miss both points.
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    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    I've posted a basic historical narrative on how the ponzi scheme has run and how an apparent Balfour like declaration by William the b@$tard made usury kosher after hailey's comet passed by.

    I am telling yous that these are the heirs of the same money changers that _ threw out of the house of God.

    They slithered into Europe and started their usury schemes there when they realised that the expanding Muslim world was having none of the usury game and so invested the gold they'd gathered to exploit a coalition of the willing goyim and fund (on usury) a campaign to get their precious witchcraft books back from under Sulaiman 's throne - and hopefully get a new footing in the less "fundamentalist", more "progressive" in decadence, clueless, Muslim majority countries so they can leech them dry too.

    Saddam was harsh on freemasonry though.
    Weird that a lot of the arab leaders purchased stocks in the banks - were they just puppets investing their citizens' money to bail out their elders or were they too rejecting God and wanting a piece of the game? Didn't they see the next massive financial collapse on the horizon once the inflation hits? Or are they unaware of how many have had theor "assets" frozen and confiscated through the usurious banking system?



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    Last edited by Abz2000; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:20 AM.
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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    I've posted a basic historical narrative on how the ponzi scheme has run and how an apparent Balfour like declaration by William the b@$tard made usury kosher after hailey's comet passed by.

    I am telling yous that these are the heirs of the same money changers that _ threw out of the house of God.

    They slithered into Europe and started their usury schemes there when they realised that the expanding Muslim world was having none of the usury game and so invested the gold they'd gathered to exploit a coalition of the willing goyim and fund (on usury) a campaign to get their precious witchcraft books back from under Sulaiman 's throne - and hopefully get a new footing in the less "fundamentalist", more "progressive" in decadence, clueless, Muslim majority countries so they can leech them dry too.

    Saddam was harsh on freemasonry though.
    Weird that a lot of the arab leaders purchased stocks in the banks - were they just puppets investing their citizens' money to bail out their elders or were they too rejecting God and wanting a piece of the game? Didn't they see the next massive financial collapse on the horizon once the inflation hits? Or are they unaware of how many have had theor "assets" frozen and confiscated?



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    sigh This world is filthy filthy. We deserve to be punished. Earned the punishment and sum.

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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    Quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead View Post
    sigh This world is filthy filthy. We deserve to be punished. Earned the punishment and sum.
    Better to repent to Allah than to secure the consequences warned of in the opening 20ish verses of surah al Anbiyaa (ch.21)


    When the Prophet returned to Makkah it is reported that his head was so bowed that his beard was touching his mount, that was because he knew that he was not going in as a conqueror but as a humble servant in obedience to God.
    When Umar went to receive the keys to Jerusalem, he went in humility with a single servant whilst wearing patched clothes.

    When you see the abominations and lgbt raves in jerusalem practiced by the rothschild backed and pampered "israeli" government - after having setting up of the analogous inner and outer temples in london, and the setting up of the blasphemous religious analogies in the hellfire clubs, the analogies drawn in the naming of the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah errr... Ukgb - and the rothschild owned economist's "obituary of God" , you see that these money changers were challenging God as if conquerors returning. As if saying 'see? You had us thrown out but we set up our own kingdom like yours elsewhere and became lucifer, now we're setting up the synagogue of satan in the holy place and practicing establishing everything that rouses your jealousy'.
    Know that such blasphemy and rebellion will not go unanswered - a respite to reconsider and repent is not a license to commit crimes.



    Some of the stuff in here is interesting:




    Thanks god but no thanks huh? Scroll to 3 minutes if in a rush.

    Last edited by Abz2000; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:02 AM.
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    Junon's Avatar
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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    Salaam

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    This guy managed to completely miss the point. Who cares if some bankers screw other bankers? The only issue with this is that in 2008, bankers were bailed out who should have gone bankrupt.

    There are 2 real problems with interest. One is that it often bankrupts poor people. The other is fractional banking which causes economic instability. This guy managed to miss both points.
    Just for clarification Whats your position on riba/interest? Are you against it in all forms or do you make room for exceptions?

    Another video.


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    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    Quote Originally Posted by Junon View Post
    Just for clarification Whats your position on riba/interest? Are you against it in all forms or do you make room for exceptions?
    I follow the Old Testament which says:

    "Do not charge your brother interest on money, food, or anything that can earn interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you must not charge your brother interest, so that the Lord your God may bless you in everything you do in the land you are entering to possess."
    -- Deuteronomy 23:19-20

    So based on this I would not charge interest to Muslims and traditional Anabaptists since these groups follow the basic idea of the Old Testament.

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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    I follow the Old Testament which says:

    "Do not charge your brother interest on money, food, or anything that can earn interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you must not charge your brother interest, so that the Lord your God may bless you in everything you do in the land you are entering to possess."
    -- Deuteronomy 23:19-20

    So based on this I would not charge interest to Muslims and traditional Anabaptists since these groups follow the basic idea of the Old Testament.
    Deuteronomy 23:19-20 New International Version (NIV)

    19 Do not charge a fellow Israelite interest, whether on money or food or anything else that may earn interest. 20 You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a fellow Israelite, so that the Lord your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...0%2C8361440592

    International Standard Version

    "Don't charge interest to your relatives, whether for money, food, or for anything that has been loaned at interest.

    Christian Standard Bible

    "Do not charge your brother interest on silver, food, or anything that can earn interest.

    New American Standard Bible

    "You shall not charge interest to your countrymen: interest on money, food, or anything that may be loaned at interest.
    https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/23-19.htm?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C8527623968

    Brothers: according to you it includes Muslims and Christians as well.

    Country men: Non Jew are also included if they live there

    Israelites: Only them regardless of which country they live in

    Relatives: It includes limited number of people whether they're Jew or other religious people e.g. Hindu provided that they're relatives

    Q: Who're exempted from paying interest to you...?
    Last edited by azc; 4 Days Ago at 11:51 AM.

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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    Greetings and peace be with you Junon;

    I liked your video explaining that usury is a mathematical fraud. I saw an interesting TV programme some years ago about the commandment, thou shall not steal.

    Back in 1066 William conquered England, and he divided the country up between all his lords. Each lord took or stole land, they built a castle and taxed the people nearby to fund their project. Today, many of the lords living in their stately homes can trace their ancestry back to 1066.

    Those lords who have used or invested their money wisely, have had the benefit of almost a thousand years of compound interest. The irony is, that if your ancestors were one of those peasants forced off their land a thousand years back, you still might be forced to borrow money which is still linked to the original theft of land.

    In other words, the lord today could be the chairman of a bank; whose ancestor took your ancestor's land and taxed him a thousand years ago. It just means you are still paying for the privileged of the original theft.

    In the spirit of praying for justice for al people

    Eric
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    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    fschmidt's Avatar
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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    Q: Who're exempted from paying interest to you...?
    It literally says "brother" but this is a figure of speech which means someone who you consider to be a member of your community. I consider all who take God's instruction seriously to be members of my community, and that currently includes Muslims and traditional Anabaptists. So these are the people who I can't charge interest to.

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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    @fschmidt:

    Figure of speech...?

    See some more figure of speech, friend.

    Man was created after the plants. Gen.1:12, 26. Man was created before the plants. Gen.2:5-9.

    The birds were created out of the water. Gen.1:20. The birds were created out of the land. Gen.2:19.

    The animals were created before man. Gen.1:24-26. The animals were created after man. Gen.2:19.

    On the first day, G-d created and separated light and darkness. Gen.1:3-5. On the fourth day, G-d again created and separated light and darkness. Gen.1:14-18.


    G-d encouraged reproduction, Gen.1:28. He said it was an unclean process, Lev.12:1-8

    G-d was pleased with his creation. Gen.1:31. G-d was not pleased with his creation, Gen.6:6.


    Adam was to die "the day" he ate the forbidden fruit, Gen.2:17. Adam lived 930 years, Gen.5:5.

    The name of "The Lord" was known in the beginning. Gen.4:26; Gen.12:8; Gen.22:14; Gen.26:25. The name of "The Lord" was not known in the beginning. Ex.6:3.

    G-d preferred Abel's offering to Cain's, Gen.4:4, 5. G-d shows no partiality. 2 Chr.19:7; 2 Sam.14:14.

    G-d asks Cain the whereabouts of his brother, Gen.4:9. G-d goes to see what is happening, Gen.18:20, 21. G-d is everywhere and sees everything, Prov.15:3; Jer.16:17; Jer.23:24.

    It didn't rain before the flood, Gen.7:4. There was rain from above and below, Gen.8

    Two pairs of each kind were to be taken aboard Noah's ark, Gen.6:19, 20; Gen.7:9, 14-16. Two pairs and seven pairs of some kinds were to be taken aboard, Gen.7:2, 3.


    Noah entered the ark during the Flood, Gen.7:7. Noah entered the ark after the Flood, Gen.7:12, 13.

    There were many languages before the tower at Babel. Gen.10:5, 20, 31. There was only one language before the tower at Babel. Gen.11:1.


    Abraham married his half-sister and was blessed. Gen.11:29. Incest is wrong. Deut.27:22; Lev. 18:9; Lev. 20:17.

    "G-d" caused David to number the people, 2 Sam.24:1. "Satan" caused David to number the people, 1 Chr.21:1.

    Saul utterly destroyed the Amalekites, 1 Sam.15:20. David utterly destroyed the Amalekites, 1 Sam.27:8, 9. David destroyed the Amalekites - again - almost, 1 Sam.30:1,17,18.


    G-d chose Saul to save the people from the Philistines, 1 Sam.9:15-17. Saul dies and the Philistines overrun the Israelites, 1 Sam.31:6, 7.

    G-d chose Saul, 1 Sam.9:16. G-d repents for choosing Saul, 1 Sam.15:35. G-d doesn't need to repent, Num. 23:19.


    Saul inquired of G-d but received no answer, 1 Sam.28:6. Saul died for not inquiring, 1 Chr.10:13, 14.

    Saul killed himself, 1 Sam.31:4; 1 Chr. 10:4, 5. Someone killed Saul, 2 Sam.1:5-10. The Philistines killed Saul, 2 Sam.21:12. G-d killed Saul, 1 Chr.10:13,14.

    His name was Solomon, 2 Sam.12:24; 1 Chr.22:9. His name was Jedidiah, 2 Sam.12:25.

    Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses, 1 Ki.4:26. Solomon had 4,000 stalls of horses, 2 Chr.9:25.

    Solomon had 3300 supervisors, 1 Ki.5:16. Solomon had 3600 supervisors, 2 Chr.2:2.

    Jesse had eight sons, 1 Sam.16:10, 11; 1 Sam.17:12. Jesse had seven sons, 1 Chr.2:13-15.

    Saul knew David before the encounter with Goliath, 1 Sam.16:19. Saul did not know David until after the encounter with Goliath. 1 Sam.17:55-58.


    Michal was childless, 2 Sam.6:23. Michal had five sons, 2 Sam.21:8.
    Rashi explains: "had no child: from that day on."

    David paid 50 pieces of silver for the property, 2 Sam.24:24. David paid 600 pieces of gold for the property, 1 Chr.21:25
    Last edited by azc; 3 Days Ago at 05:19 PM.
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    Re: Wisdom behind Prohibition of Riba (interest)

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    I follow the Old Testament which says:

    "Do not charge your brother interest on money, food, or anything that can earn interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you must not charge your brother interest, so that the Lord your God may bless you in everything you do in the land you are entering to possess."
    -- Deuteronomy 23:19-20

    So based on this I would not charge interest to Muslims and traditional Anabaptists since these groups follow the basic idea of the Old Testament.
    Except what has been changed to convey a wrongful understanding and practice:

    And their taking of Riba (usury) though they were forbidden from taking it and their devouring of men’s substance wrongfully (bribery). And We have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful torment”[al-Nisaa’ 4:61]

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