I do not accept that Muhammad was a prophet of God in the Biblical tradition except that he was the first prophet of Allah (in the Arab understanding). It is difficult for anyone with a knowledge of the Biblical prophets to see that Muhammad qualifies as such not least because he was a Meccan Arab and not a Jew. I think the first Muslims heard about prophets from the local Jews and about apostles from local Christians or pseudo-Christians (Gnostics).
Even so, Muhammad can have believed himself to be a prophet without being so. He can have been thought of as a prophet by others without being so. The records of early Islam suggest that Muhammad himself thought that he went through times of something bordering on madness.
I can never become a Muslim because of what I know of the origins of Judaeo-Christianity and Islam but I do not regard Muhammad as a madman per se. Indeed, however he pictured himself or was thought of by others, it has to be acknowledged that he is one of history's great people. Some people think he used his limited knowledge of the faith history of the Jews and Christians to create another faith which had himself as its human head. Certainly, the claim that Adam or Abraham or Ishmael ever went Mecca did not exist before Muhammad lived. It is unknown to the Bible of the Jews and Christians. I suspect that Mecca did not exist at the time of Abraham or David or even Jesus of Nazareth.
Anyone who has a following of over a billion people so long after his death is someone to be taken seriously I feel.
Muhammad a prophet? I don't think so.
Muhammad a great man? Oh yes, I think so. Very much.
whatever you need to tell yourself to convince yourself of the whole God/Mortal/woman/son/ and a third alter ego on the side to nunciate his own birth-- seems to mirror Zeus/Alcmena/Hercules) much although in this case Hercules weren't one in the same with Zeus, but it certainly made acceptable a middle eastern religion to the west.. but evolved to mythology nonetheless..
Arabs make up less than 20% of today's Muslims, and where as Jesus was indeed sent to the lost tribes of (bani Israel) Muhammad PBUH was sent to all man kind.
btw the Jews don't recognize you.. there is no 'judeo/christian' according to them, and it seems your God Jesus has already abrogated all the laws in the OT, hence I am at a loss about the whole Judeo/Christian theme...
Jews are less than 1% (15 million) of the world's population outnumbered by sikhs even. Islam has 1.86billion adherents and the fastest growing....
as for knowledge of OT and NT.. the Quran differs greately.. it can't be compared to the nonsensical fiction of either, bible in the least should answer you, why Abraham took his only son to sacrifice? If it were the 'only' it would be Ishmeal no? otherwise it would be lying to you, for Issac was the younger brother, in fact Hagar was thrown out by Sara along with her son for having been barren, she was granted Isaac much later.. so why doesn't the bible say, take your second preferred son? you need to research old T laws better, especially about the first born, before sharing your wonderful point of view..
cheers
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I do not accept that Muhammad was a prophet of God in the Biblical tradition except that he was the first prophet of Allah (in the Arab understanding). It is difficult for anyone with a knowledge of the Biblical prophets to see that Muhammad qualifies as such not least because he was a Meccan Arab and not a Jew. I think the first Muslims heard about prophets from the local Jews and about apostles from local Christians or pseudo-Christians (Gnostics).
Even so, Muhammad can have believed himself to be a prophet without being so. He can have been thought of as a prophet by others without being so. The records of early Islam suggest that Muhammad himself thought that he went through times of something bordering on madness.
I can never become a Muslim because of what I know of the origins of Judaeo-Christianity and Islam but I do not regard Muhammad as a madman per se. Indeed, however he pictured himself or was thought of by others, it has to be acknowledged that he is one of history's great people. Some people think he used his limited knowledge of the faith history of the Jews and Christians to create another faith which had himself as its human head. Certainly, the claim that Adam or Abraham or Ishmael ever went Mecca did not exist before Muhammad lived. It is unknown to the Bible of the Jews and Christians. I suspect that Mecca did not exist at the time of Abraham or David or even Jesus of Nazareth.
Anyone who has a following of over a billion people so long after his death is someone to be taken seriously I feel.
Muhammad a prophet? I don't think so.
Muhammad a great man? Oh yes, I think so. Very much.
If Muhammad (PBUH) was not a Prophet then why is he mentioned by name in the Bible?
Indeed it does. Because periklytos is never used in the Greek New Testament or the Septuigant.
The word that is actually used is Paracletos/Parakletos. Here is an example of how the word is used.
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor (allon parakleton) to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." John 14:16-17
"But the Counselor (de parakletos), the Holy Spirit (pneuma to hagion), whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:26
Parakletos literally means: a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor.
It does not mean "honorable one".
Here is another example of how the word is used and its meaning from a different book.
"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort (paraklesis), who comforts (parakaleo) us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort (parakaleo) those in any trouble with the comfort (paraklesis) with which we ourselves are comforted (parakaleo) of God." 2 Corinthians 1:3-4
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
I do not accept that Muhammad was a prophet of God in the Biblical tradition except that he was the first prophet of Allah (in the Arab understanding). It is difficult for anyone with a knowledge of the Biblical prophets to see that Muhammad qualifies as such not least because he was a Meccan Arab and not a Jew.
Erm, he was a descendant of Abraham. That qualifies him as jewish. If you'd like, I can give his full name (it's pretty long, containing 40+ generations*)
Even so, Muhammad can have believed himself to be a prophet without being so. He can have been thought of as a prophet by others without being so. The records of early Islam suggest that Muhammad himself thought that he went through times of something bordering on madness.
Given the fact he was assaulted verbally and physically on a daily basis for merely preaching the existence of one God, I think he had every right to go through 'times of something bordering on madness'. Psychologically speaking, I can't see how one wouldn't under those circumstances!
Muhammad a prophet? I don't think so.
....
Well, he pretty much said what Jesus said (who said pretty much what Abraham said....so you could say every prophet after abraham merely reiterrated what abraham said...and you'd actually be correct!) So I guess that should qualify him as a Prophet. It does in my book anyway
Last edited by aamirsaab; 10-07-2008 at 06:20 PM.
Reason: * see below post for the generation link....it is BIG
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
And as for the onewho fears standing in front of His Lord and restrainsthe soul from impure evil desires and lusts, verily, Paradise will be his abode [79:40-41]
^^^ agreed.. what is the point of trying to get the approval of folks who worship a man? if they had enough common sense, they wouldn't be worshiping a 'God' with an identity crisis, let alone exploring other options.
Finding God is a solo journey..
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
And as for the onewho fears standing in front of His Lord and restrainsthe soul from impure evil desires and lusts, verily, Paradise will be his abode [79:40-41]
^^^ agreed.. what is the point of trying to get the approval of folks who worship a man? if they had enough common sense, they wouldn't be worshiping a 'God' with an identity crisis, let alone exploring other options.
Finding God is a solo journey..
Were you looking for approval? Or making a claim?
That is the problem with Muslims attempting to legitimize their faith by claiming their prophet is prophecied in the New Testament. They will simply ignore everything else contained within it, then claim one sentence points to Muhammed...that sentence of course being the only sentence they choose to believe... It is a dubious exercise I agree.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
to offer du3wa to those who seek it
to dispel common myths about Islam that are circulating through the web
to offer new Muslims help and a sense of community
to answer questions Muslims themselves might have concerning common issues
to offer biographies and discuss laws, fiqh, 3aqeeda all in one place so one doesn't circle the web and end with wrong info
to abridge the gaps between Muslims every where so they can feel a sense of peace, purpose and fulfillment knowing there are Muslims every where who suffer their plight and share in their joys./fears etc
to offer Multimedia and PDF books to other Muslims
to offer new ways to amass knowledge and see other interests Muslims enjoy
just to name a few
what it isn't made for, is to engage in vain discourse with folks who seek opportunities to insult Muslims, the messengers, Allah swt or his books, because frankly there are enough places like that on the web and this need not be on of them..
and Allah knows best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
well, if you bring it that way I agree
you have more experience with that than I do so fair enough but still, many of them are green, and not accustomed to their core beliefs been questioned.
That is the problem with Muslims attempting to legitimize their faith by claiming their prophet is prophecied in the New Testament. They will simply ignore everything else contained within it, then claim one sentence points to Muhammed...that sentence of course being the only sentence they choose to believe... It is a dubious exercise I agree.
lol where did you hear that? Muslims ignore everything else written in it? Thats a pretty poor generalisation.
In light of the recent posts I shall be closing this thread. The link for the actual debate is still available for anyone who wants to watch it, located in the first post.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
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Thats a pretty poor generalisation.
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