Ask a learned person, dear ukhti. Please don't pay any attention to any answer based on opinions. The question you asked is regarding Islam, the knowledge of Islam is in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, and those who knows most about Qur'an and Sunnah are our noble scholars. So, this is my advice to you: ask a knowledgable person, so that you may get an answer which is true in Allah's Deen. Allahu a'lam.
thanks brother, I may do so...
but I may have found my answer...Allah is Merciful and won't send just anyone to hell... and I think the unbelievers who are sent to hell are those who knew enough about Islam, knew it is the truth, but still rejected it because of their own arrogance...
also I agree with STORM2 in that we can't know what Allah will decide on the day of judgement, so we shouldn't spend too much time speculating or pretending to understand how it all works. no one truly knows what will happen...all we can do is try to be the best we can be, and have faith that we'll be rewarded for it somehow someday
Greetings and peace bew with you STORM 2; welcome to the forum and thank you for a very wise first post.
Whatever anyone tells you about an answer for this question - ignore them completely....including me.
Only God in His infinite wisdom will decide who goes to 'hell' and who doesn't. It is not up to any mortal (and may be indeed dangerous for the speculators) to waste time trying to establish destiny in the hereafter.
In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship
Surely being merciful means that God is merciful to people who do not deserve mercy.
Why would God need to be merciful to good people who have done no wrong?
I am a Christian and I have family and friends who are not Christian, like you I hope and pray they may also find salvation. Regardless of our faith we rely on God’s mercy, the same God hears all our prayers.
I would not like to see you condemned to hell because you do not follow the Christian beliefs, in the same kind of way you do not want to see your non Islamic friends condemned. The chances are I will go to my grave a Christian, and you will go to your grave a Muslim.
Your faith comes from the same God who gave me my faith, why should I try and change what God has given you? Why should you try and change what I believe God has given me?
If we are able to forgive and pray for those who are different to ourselves we might see how it is possible for God to forgive.
If we condemn people who are different to us we might see how God condemns.
It has been said that we reflect the God we worship, and the challenging question is what kind of God do I worship?
In the spirit of praying to a loving and merciful God.
Greetings Eric..
may Allah grant you the peaceful life.
I didn't get your point
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
All praise is due to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. May salawat i salam be upon His slave and messenger Muhammad, his family and companions.
Surely being merciful means that God is merciful to people who do not deserve mercy.
Allah SWT gives people to live on His Earth, while they continue to spread lies about Him SWT. Also: Whoever brings a good deed, he shall have ten like it, and whoever brings an evil deed, he shall be recompensed only with the like of it, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly. That's only something from Allah's mercy. His SWT mercy is greater than a mother's mercy towards her baby.
The problem with the Christian belief is that Allah's SWT justice doesn't fit in it.
Why would God need to be merciful to good people who have done no wrong?
Be aware that shirk, the opposite of oneness of Allah, is the greatest sin and the most dangerous thing can do.
I would not like to see you condemned to hell because you do not follow the Christian beliefs, in the same kind of way you do not want to see your non Islamic friends condemned. The chances are I will go to my grave a Christian, and you will go to your grave a Muslim.
Noone of us would like to see his friends in Jahannam, however, we must know that one who has erred, and who was warned, and who got proofs, and who got time to repent, yet failed to do so really deserves punishment. That's justice. Those who do good can't be the same as those who do evil.
Your faith comes from the same God who gave me my faith, why should I try and change what God has given you? Why should you try and change what I believe God has given me?
Actually it doesn't. Christianity doesn't come from God, subhanahu wa ta'ala. God has given you fitrah, a natural inclination towards tawheed, my dear friend. It's not rational to say that Allah SWT gives you a faith and is pleased with it, because it's non sense to say that people who believe contradictory things end up in the same manner.
If we are able to forgive and pray for those who are different to ourselves we might see how it is possible for God to forgive.
Iman and kufr, belief and disbelief are things for which Allah, 'azza wa jalla, rewards or punishes a person. We can call someone to Allah's religion, we can advice him, we can learn our deen so as to give our best, but we can't do what's Allah's job.
It has been said that we reflect the God we worship, and the challenging question is what kind of God do I worship?
I don't think that's not true. Nothing is like God, may He be exalted. He SWT doesn't depend on us, and doesn't take anything from His slaves.
And all praise is due to Allah alone, and may salawat i salam be upon Allah's Nabiyy.
In times of difficulties don't ever say, "Allah, I have a big problem!", say "Hey problem, I have a big Allah!"
Surely being merciful means that God is merciful to people who do not deserve mercy.
Edit : Surely being merciful means that God is merciful to people who do not deserve mercy and to people who deserve it
For me I Believe that I deserve punishment
Why would God need to be merciful to good people who have done no wrong?
show me a person you know who has done no wrong?
I am a Christian and I have family and friends who are not Christian, like you I hope and pray they may also find salvation. Regardless of our faith we rely on God’s mercy, the same God hears all our prayers.
I would not like to see you condemned to hell because you do not follow the Christian beliefs, in the same kind of way you do not want to see your non Islamic friends condemned. The chances are I will go to my grave a Christian, and you will go to your grave a Muslim.
you are contradiciting the bible though you are christian : the known christianity doesn't consider other religions a way for salavation.
in Luke 19/26-27 christians claim that jesus said :
26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."
Your faith comes from the same God who gave me my faith, why should I try and change what God has given you? Why should you try and change what I believe God has given me?
can I Say I was born Ignorant why should I seek knowledge?
You Erich yourself! God gave you things and you seek to change it...poor people , can they say God wants us to be poor we wont try to be rich?
Eirch if you find a pain why don't you say this Pain is from GOD , I will not go to the doctor?
Really very surprising i didn't excpect it from you!!
Last edited by Makky; 08-22-2008 at 03:40 AM.
Atheists this is you situation now:
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
Whatever anyone tells you about an answer for this question - ignore them completely....including me.
Only God in His infinite wisdom will decide who goes to 'hell' and who doesn't. It is not up to any mortal (and may be indeed dangerous for the speculators) to waste time trying to establish destiny in the hereafter.
It may surprise some that even the most devout beings on earth have no safe passage to 'heaven' and we have no recourse if God decided to 'change the rules' as it were and decided to send all muslims to hell. It is His desire and His power do anything He wishes and we must recognise that by the minute
This post is worth repeating. To add to it I will add, we do not know. But, we do know Allaah(swt) is all just and nobody will ever recieve punishment without it being the will of Allaah(swt).
I can empathize with what you must be feeling. I am the only Muslim in my family. Both of my parents have died as non-Muslims after my reversion and being aware of Islam and my belief in the Oneness of Allah. Following the example of Abraham in the Qur'an, I do not pray for the forgiveness of their sins because they died as Christians. As has been stated it is only for Allah to judge and we can neither know if a "good Muslim" will go to Heaven or if an "irreligious agnostic" will go to Hell. For that matter, though I strive to submit my will to that of Allah, I don't know whether or not even I will gain Paradise. Since I don't know the purity of my own intentions, how can I judge another's. Yet your question brings this ayat to my mind:
Qur'an 5:116-118 After reminding him of these favors, Allah will say: "O Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Marry), Did you ever say to the people, "worship me and my mother as gods beside Allah?" He will answer: "Glory to You! How could I say what I had no right to say? If I had ever said so, you would have certainly known it. You know what is in my heart, but I know not what is in Yours; for You have full knowledge of all the unseen. I never said anything other than what You commanded me to say, that is to worship Allah, Who is my Rabb and your Rabb. I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them; but when You called me off, You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to everything. If You punish them, they surely are Your servants; and if You forgive them, You are Mighty, Wise."
While I still pray for the future guidance of my son, my brother, my sister, my uncles and my aunt, I realize that they are outside of the realm of Islam and that they commit the major sin of ascribing partners to Allah in their worship of the human, Jesus. Although I believe in God, my parents were upset by my Islamic faith because I had rejected Jesus as the Son of God and therefore the "free gift of salvation". In Islam we see that Christians commit shirk in saying Jesus was the Son of God.
9:30-31 The Jews say: "Uzair (Azra) is the son of Allah," and the Christians say: " Messiah (Christ) is the son of Allah." That is what they say with their mouths, imitating the sayings of the former unbelievers. May Allah destroy them! How perverted they are! They (Jews and Christians) have taken their rabbis and priests to be their Lords beside Allah and so they did with Messiah (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary), although they were commanded in the Torah and the Gospel to worship none but One Ilah (Allah); besides Whom there is none worthy of worship. Exalted be He above those whom they associate with Him.
It is difficult for us to fathom the seriousness of this sin, but according to my understanding of Islam, shirk is the unforgivable sin:
Qur'an 4:48-49 Surely Allah does not forgive shirk (associating any partner with Him); and may forgive sins other than that if He so pleases. This is because one who commits shirk with Allah, does indeed invent a great sinful lie. Have you not seen those who speak very highly of their own purity even though they are committing shirk. In fact, Allah purifies whom He wishes. If the mushrikin are not purified no injustice, even equal to the thread of a date-stone, is being done to them.
This post is worth repeating. To add to it I will add, we do not know. But, we do know Allaah(swt) is all just and nobody will ever recieve punishment without it being the will of Allaah(swt).
Dear Woodrow if you just said :
we do know Allaah(swt) is all just and nobody will ever recieve punishment without it being the will of Allaah(swt)
that would be better than repeating Storm2's post.. which is totally unacceptable..
We -Muslims- have Quran and Sunnah and the understanding of the compainions to the Quran and sunnah , No one on this Earth can say Ignore what is in Quran and sunnah and the understanding of companions..
We Do believe that Allah is the All just
We Do believe that Allah wont punish anyone if he doesn't deserve this punishment
We Do believe that Allah is the merciful
All of this Don't contradict what we -Muslims- believe in : that the only Accepted religion in the next life is ISLAM.
Nothing in the Book of Allah is called changing rules (astaghfirullah)
Allah (SWT) said :
None can change His Words, and none will you find as a refuge other than Him. (27)
We Do believe that there are some people who are Called Alhlul fatrah. who lived in an age when there is no prophet or a message from Allah , and people who are in similar cases , and we do believe that they will be tested in the hearafter.
the following links are very very important: Did the parents of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) become Muslim?
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
it seems so unfair though... some people, even if they've heard of Islam and know some of the basics, still don't know enough to embrace it simply because they were brought up believing something else. born Muslims, even if they're not good Muslims, have their ticket to heaven from birth. why?
thats not true sis, there are many many many sadly and i mean many muslims that are born muslim know everything have that privilige but yet are worse than the kafir... i mean at least you can say that oh so and so is not a muslim and woasnt born into a muslim family therefore doesnt know etc... but Wallah you will be shocked if you see some of the muslim bros and sisters that are muslim by name and born into the ummah... i pray that Allah swt guides their hearts Insha'Allah.
I know that at times i may be annoying or mistaken when i say some things or it may unintentionally God forbid offend u & if that is the case then i sincerely apologise from the bottom of my heart & ask Allah swt's & ur forgiveness, so please do Insha'Allah forgive me and correct me.
that would be better than repeating Storm2's post.. which is totally unacceptable..
I believe Storm's post is closer to the truth.
We -Muslims- have Quran and Sunnah and the understanding of the compainions to the Quran and sunnah , No one on this Earth can say Ignore what is in Quran and sunnah and the understanding of companions..
We Do believe that Allah is the All just
We Do believe that Allah wont punish anyone if he doesn't deserve this punishment
We Do believe that Allah is the merciful
All of this Don't contradict what we -Muslims- believe in : that the only Accepted religion in the next life is ISLAM.
Nothing in the Book of Allah is called changing rules (astaghfirullah)
Allah (SWT) said :
the translation of the meaning is :
We Do believe
that there are some people who are Called Alhlul fatrah. who lived in an age when there is no prophet or a message from Allah , and people who are in similar cases , and we do believe that they will be tested in the hearafter.
the following links are very very important: Did the parents of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) become Muslim?
but then even those who embrace Islam and revert, like me, are doomed.... because heaven won't be heaven to me if I know my family members went/will go to hell. knowing that, will make heaven a hellish place for me.
i am depressed now...
inshaallah
ur family bcums muslims hopefully and they will just try and cunvince them
You have used the phrase 'We believe' five times in the above post. Believing indicates a lack of proof, therefor Storm's post makes more sense.
In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship,
Eric
there are 2 posts You didn't answer, why now you come and quate from what i posted , please answer my Question.. and for what you said : if you just pay few time to read what is in the 2 links you wont say there is no proof...
the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients." (25) Others they keep away from it and themselves they keep away; but they only destroy their own souls and they perceive it not. (26)(Translation of surat Al'anam)
Sadly there is no absolute proof that God exists, if there were then we would all see this proof in the same way. Atheists will tell you that your proof relies on a book written by a man, the same can be said for Christianity. Reading your proof will only lead to arguments on truth that we both cannot prove to each other.
I believe scriptures are written in a way so that we might strive to change ourselves; more than we should strive to change others.
I have a great respect for Islam and I have a great respect for many of you on this forum, but I am a Christian and I have Christian beliefs. Events have happened in my life that have proved to me Christianity is the truth.
God works in mysterious ways, the same God created you a Muslim and me a Christian, the same God hears both our prayers. Despite all our differences there is the need to pray for each other; that we might both have salvation, even if we both go to our graves with opposing beliefs.
In the spirit of praying for salvation for all people, despite all our beliefs.
Atheists (and adherents to other religions) will tell you that your proof relies on a book written by a man, the same can be said for Christianity. Reading your proof will only lead to arguments on truth that we both cannot prove to each other.
Yes, this is true because you don't respect the Qur'an as the Word of Allah any more than I accept the Bible as being the uncorrupted Word of Allah. However, I can recognize bits and pieces of the Bible as being consistent with the Message of the Qur'an. I recognize those portions as possibly being Divinely inspired.
I believe scriptures are written in a way so that we might strive to change ourselves; more than we should strive to change others.
I have to disagree with you on this one. Didn't Jesus (as) send out his disciples to spread the Good News? Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
God works in mysterious ways, the same God created you a Muslim and me a Christian, the same God hears both our prayers.
....again I would have to disagree with you here. Allah did not create me as a Muslim. I was born into a Christian family, but I chose to be a Muslim. I felt guided by Allah to the Truth, but He did not make me be a Muslim. You were also born into a Christian family (I presume), but you choose to remain a Christian despite knowing that Islam teaches doctrine contrary to your own.
Yes, there is but One God, but our concepts of Him are radically different as taught by our respective religions.
Despite all our differences there is the need to pray for each other; that we might both have salvation, even if we both go to our graves with opposing beliefs.
Yes, I pray for your guidance to the Truth, but I don't pray for your salvation outside of Islam. If Allah chooses to forgive you despite what is stated in the Qur'an, then Alhadulillah as I have not heard you speak disrespectfully of Muhammad (saaws), or of Islam.
In the spirit of praying for guidance to the Straight Way that leads to eternal salvation.
Last edited by MustafaMc; 08-23-2008 at 05:13 PM.
Reason: spelling
God must be perfect; it would be illogical to suggest that God is imperfect. Justice is a perfect perception, consequently God cannot be unjust; it would be illogical to suggest that God would be unjust. To suggest that there are no ‘good’ men amongst non-believers is ludicrous. To send a ‘good’ man to hell just because he is not a Muslim would be unjust and God cannot be unjust.
But the again it clearly says in the Qur’an that non-believers will go to hell whether or not they are ‘good’ men and the Qur’an is the word of God dictated to Mohammed.
I understand your reasoning ... but it assumes that God's understanding of justice is the same as our human one.
How can we be sure that that is the case?
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I understand your reasoning ... but it assumes that God's understanding of justice is the same as our human one.
How can we be sure that that is the case?
Because justice is a perfect perception. You can have a situation whereby one persons sees an outcome as just and another person sees the same outcome as unjust but that's because we are people and imperfect; God is perfect and as such cannot be unjust. Clearly to say that a 'good' person will be punished for doing nothing wrong cannot by any stretch of the imagination, be considered just.
Clearly to say that a 'good' person will be punished for doing nothing wrong cannot by any stretch of the imagination, be considered just.
Again, that would depend on what behaviour God would consider to be punishable.
The question really is, does the Qu'ran reflect the rules which God judges us all by?
Muslims believe it does, non-Muslims don't ...
If the Qu'ran is right, then all who don't obey it are not 'good' in God's eyes ... and therefore punishable - regardless of what the human law may say ...
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
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