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  1. #1
    Limited Member aim's Avatar
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    Why cutting the hand of the thief???



    In many Muslim countries Muslim cut the hand of theaves so why they do it in some countries and not in other.

    [Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah curses a man
    who steals an egg and gets his hand cut off, or steals a rope
    and gets his hands cut off."]


    Please I want answer with references.

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    Limited Member aim's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Plus don't you think that is too much??

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    Full Member themuffinman's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    i dont think its too much, you have to realize this is under sharia law if fully implemented there really shouldnt be a need to steal as sharia also requires full payment of zakaat ( charity) and if implemented correctly noone should be poor so the stealing isnt justified. also with a harsh punishment like that people would think twice about stealing wouldnt they =P

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    Limited Member aim's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Quote Originally Posted by themuffinman View Post
    i dont think its too much, you have to realize this is under sharia law if fully implemented there really shouldnt be a need to steal as sharia also requires full payment of zakaat ( charity) and if implemented correctly noone should be poor so the stealing isnt justified. also with a harsh punishment like that people would think twice about stealing wouldnt they =P
    But Islam is seen by all Muslim like the perfect religion of all times and now they do not pratice this in many countries.

    Then you have to immagine that when a person has his hand cut it will be very difficult for him to work to eat and to do essential things.His life becomes a nightmare. And easily wherever he goes everyone will know that he is or was a theaf. How will he be accepted to work and can he. In this point Islam is certainly not a religion of pardon.

    I am sorry you didn't convince me because what you have said is very shallow.

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    IB Senior Member Ayesha Rana's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    I don't think it is too much because in the ****ries where the law is implemented the stealing rate is VERY low compared to those where there is no capital punishment. The Shariah aims to preserve 5 things.
    Religion, Life, Intellect, Progeny and Wealth.


    Religion: by prescribing death on the one who changes his religion
    Life: by prescribing death on the one who kills willfully without reason
    Intellect: by prescribing lashing for the one who drinks alcohol and for the one addicted to substance abuse
    Progeny: by stoning for the non-virgin adulterer and adulteress.
    Wealth: by cutting the hand off the thief.

    Allah wants to preserve these matters so severly so the rulings sre severe concerning them.

    Ask yourself, if these rulings are put into practice then who would violate these matters?


    Quote Originally Posted by aim View Post
    Then you have to immagine that when a person has his hand cut it will be very difficult for him to work to eat and to do essential things.His life becomes a nightmare. And easily wherever he goes everyone will know that he is or was a theaf. How will he be accepted to work and can he. In this point Islam is certainly not a religion of pardon.

    .
    That's just it!
    If the guy had any sense then he'd realise the seriousness of the situation and he would not steal, would he?
    Last edited by Ayesha Rana; 12-19-2008 at 09:10 PM.
    Why cutting the hand of the thief???

    Oh Mankind! What keeps you from your Lord most Generous?



    There is no Hand but the Hand of Allah is over it, and
    There is no Opressor but he is tried with a Greater Opression.

  7. #6
    Full Member themuffinman's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Quote Originally Posted by aim View Post
    But Islam is seen by all Muslim like the perfect religion of all times and now they do not pratice this in many countries.

    Then you have to immagine that when a person has his hand cut it will be very difficult for him to work to eat and to do essential things.His life becomes a nightmare. And easily wherever he goes everyone will know that he is or was a theaf. How will he be accepted to work and can he. In this point Islam is certainly not a religion of pardon.

    I am sorry you didn't convince me because what you have said is very shallow.
    the religion is perfect......the prophet was perfect, and the four rightly guided caliphs implemented sharia as it was meant to be implemented but after that i cannot say and certainly today there is no true sharia anywhere in the world yes there are Islamic countries but in order to have full sharia u need a caliphate not a monarchy...so now you have countries implementing some parts of sharia but disregarding others

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    IB Senior Member Ayesha Rana's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Exactly, Islam is perfect. Don't judge a pefect car by a dumb driver cos a dumb driver could easily crash an excellent car...it doesn't mean the car is at fault. But judge it by a perfect driver who will show you its true worth. Likewise judge Islam by looking at the best models for us, such as the prophet and his close companions. And be open minded.
    1 | Likes Al Sultan liked this post
    Why cutting the hand of the thief???

    Oh Mankind! What keeps you from your Lord most Generous?



    There is no Hand but the Hand of Allah is over it, and
    There is no Opressor but he is tried with a Greater Opression.

  9. #8
    Limited Member aim's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Good,
    So first what is your sources and how did you know that the rate was very low.
    2nd in Islam you say :everyone is free to choose his\she religion "la ikraha fi didni" so why killing if his\she changes ,this is a deep contrast.

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    IB Oldskool Umar001's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

    Wa 'Alaykum Salam Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

    You have to look at Islam as a whole, including this law. What are the limitations it places, who is punishable, who is accountable, what is the purpose of it, and so forth.

    It may seem too much if one takes it out context or does not understand it fully.

    I hope someone will clarify the matter for you Brother.

    And Allah knows best.

    Br.al-Habeshi
    Why cutting the hand of the thief???

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi

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    Limited Member aim's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    I am sorry, if I said sth bad but you didn't answer my question.
    One time I read sth and after I find it's opposite. (I mean here the feedom of religion)
    Eg if sb converts to Islam and wants to change will he\she has to die.

    Please answer this question it is very simple and don't change the subject please I really want to know.
    Thanks

  13. #11
    Limited Member aim's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    I am sorry, if I said sth bad but you didn't answer my question.
    One time I read sth and after I find it's opposite. (I mean here the feedom of religion)
    Eg if sb converts to Islam and wants to change will he\she has to die.

    Please answer this question it is very simple and don't change the subject please I really want to know.
    Thanks

  14. #12
    IB Oldskool Umar001's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

    Quote Originally Posted by aim View Post
    I am sorry, if I said sth bad but you didn't answer my question.
    One time I read sth and after I find it's opposite. (I mean here the feedom of religion)
    Eg if sb converts to Islam and wants to change will he\she has to die.

    Please answer this question it is very simple and don't change the subject please I really want to know.
    Thanks
    Do not be sorry.

    You must know I did not try to answer your question, I was merely stating that in searching for your answer you need to look at the bigger picture and wished you well in finding the answer.

    Since you are pushing me to provide an answer I will ask you to clarifiy your question. You said:

    In many Muslim countries Muslim cut the hand of theaves so why they do it in some countries and not in other.

    Please show tell me what Muslim Countries cut the the hand of thiefs and when they had done so, sources please. Also Muslim countries which do not have this law.

    Moreover you also provided a hadith:

    [Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah curses a man
    who steals an egg and gets his hand cut off, or steals a rope
    and gets his hands cut off."]


    Please can you give reference and provide the rest of the hadith which talk about the cutting of the hands and how this was done by the companions and the scholars.

    Then I can start to try to find an answer to your loaded question.

    Br.al-Habeshi
    Why cutting the hand of the thief???

    The path is long but I hope we meet,
    After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat.

    A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed,
    If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek.

    Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi

  15. #13
    Full Member themuffinman's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Quote Originally Posted by aim View Post
    I am sorry, if I said sth bad but you didn't answer my question.
    One time I read sth and after I find it's opposite. (I mean here the feedom of religion)
    Eg if sb converts to Islam and wants to change will he\she has to die.

    Please answer this question it is very simple and don't change the subject please I really want to know.
    Thanks
    you see unlike other religions where your life, ur religion and your whole identy is serperate, islam is ur life and religion and ur nation or identity, there is no nationalism in islam. islam doesnt care what race you are in islam ur muslim. if sum1 was to betray their country the punishment would be death, so apostating from islam is treason

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    Limited Member aim's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi View Post
    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,



    Do not be sorry.

    You must know I did not try to answer your question, I was merely stating that in searching for your answer you need to look at the bigger picture and wished you well in finding the answer.

    Since you are pushing me to provide an answer I will ask you to clarifiy your question. You said:

    In many Muslim countries Muslim cut the hand of theaves so why they do it in some countries and not in other.

    Please show tell me what Muslim Countries cut the the hand of thiefs and when they had done so, sources please. Also Muslim countries which do not have this law.

    Moreover you also provided a hadith:

    [Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah curses a man
    who steals an egg and gets his hand cut off, or steals a rope
    and gets his hands cut off."]


    Please can you give reference and provide the rest of the hadith which talk about the cutting of the hands and how this was done by the companions and the scholars.

    Then I can start to try to find an answer to your loaded question.

    Br.al-Habeshi
    Nice reply,
    1st==> Eg in Arabia Saudia they cut the hands the heads they also stone people. You can use video google to find these videos it is easy.
    But in country like Tunisia and Morocoo for eg they do not.
    The hadith from the boukari chapter 82 hadith number 774 (I have the two books translated by Muslims) and I even have tafsir ibnu kathir and many other.

    And now please anwser my question "Super Moderator".
    I hope you want change the subject again because then it will mean you have no answer unfortunately and I will be deeply disappointed my friend Al Habeshi.

  17. #15
    Full Member themuffinman's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    i already gave u a reply the punishment for treason in ANY nation is death so why not islam?

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    IB Oldtimer czgibson's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Greetings,
    Quote Originally Posted by themuffinman View Post
    i already gave u a reply the punishment for treason in ANY nation is death so why not islam?
    According to Amnesty, more than two-thirds of the countries in the world have now abolished the death penalty. See here.

    Peace

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    IB Oldtimer alcurad's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    it seems that these questions will be perpetually asked no matter how many threads are created. there is something called search at the top of the page, quite nifty if you know how to use it..
    Why cutting the hand of the thief???

    ” إن الأمة التي تحسن صناعة الموت توهب لها الحياة”

    正直・・・微妙

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    Full Member themuffinman's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,


    According to Amnesty, more than two-thirds of the countries in the world have now abolished the death penalty. See here.

    Peace
    yeah well nations can change their ruling but islam doesnt.

  21. #19
    IB Oldtimer czgibson's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Greetings,
    Quote Originally Posted by alcurad View Post
    it seems that these questions will be perpetually asked no matter how many threads are created. there is something called search at the top of the page, quite nifty if you know how to use it..
    Why is it, do you think, that questions like this are perpetually asked?

    Peace

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    IB Oldtimer AntiKarateKid's Avatar
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    re: Why cutting the hand of the thief???


    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,


    Why is it, do you think, that questions like this are perpetually asked?

    Peace
    There is no blanket answer. Discussions about law are over some people's heads. Others might be too lazy to find out themselves. Yet others might have a hidden agenda and wish to travel the beaten road of distortion.

    In addition to this, this idea is "new" to some people who do not see this everyday. Hence their confusion or curiosity. Besides, they amy want to talk to real life Muslims.
    Why cutting the hand of the thief???

    Even Satan believes in Allah.

 

 
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