The Injil

can't yet edit

there is another link to the same book which i highly recommend

it is a revised version of the work and in 6 volumes


go there

http://www.waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=1234

and click on

اضغط هنا
begin download


the next book I highly recommend is the huge throughly work Mafatih al-Ghayb by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi

http://www.mediafire.com/?kzgmrymn4mz


or here

http://www.archive.org/details/mghtrazi


the most beloved tafsir to my mind is Tafsir Al-manar By the infamous sunni reformer Rashid Reda (I highly recommend it)... the man has gone to dimensions no other mufasir was able to ..... and showed that reason and Quran are in harmony.....

http://www.archive.org/details/tfseer_manar


sorry dear Euthyphro for me being little offtopic ...


peace

format_quote Originally Posted by cat eyes

I Want to buy the tafsir but do you stil have to have a teacher to help you understand it?

peace

according to your level of knowledge in arabic and religious terms....

dunno if Arabic is ur mother tongue?

regards

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow

Peace Euthyphro,

First came an intellectual understanding. Way back when I was first learning Arabic I managed get hold of a copy of the Qur'an in Arabic. I did not read it as a religious text, but rather as some insight into the Arabic language.

At that time I had never heard of the Qur'anic challange, so in my early years of studying Arabic I had no understanding of the uniqueness of the Qur'anic Arabic. I did know that the colloqual Arabic I was speaking in daily conversations was Darija and not pure Arabic so I found it understandable that Qur'anic Arabic did not fit in with the colloqual. Darija sounds much like the speaker has something stuck in his throat and is trying to cough it up. While the Qur'anic has a melodious almost musical quality to it.

Throughout the years I tried to find other examples of the Qur'anic Arabic and to this day the only place I can find it is in the Qur'an. Quite unique as no matter what dialect of Arabic a person speaks, they can read and comprehend it while at the same type speakers of different dialects have trouble understanding each other.

Anyhow to make a story short. On the day I reverted I had found my old Qur'an and picked it up out of curiosity to see if I could still read Arabic. As I was reading a strange thing happened, I was overcome with a feeling of warmth as if Allaah(swt) was speaking directly to me. I could not stop reading and can only say is I was not reading I was experiencing and feeling. It was a much deeper feeling then any time as a Christian I experienced what I used to call being "filled with the Holy Spirit"

The whole story of my reversion is posted in at least two threads. I will see if I can find it later, and post a link to it.

Salaam Woodrow,

Sorry for taking a bit longer to reply to you, but your post got me thinking a lot about the "theology of spiritual experiences" (for want of a better term). In my case too, you see, it was a deep spiritual experience and transformation which made my enquiry into faith complete. Yet we can't both be right about what we believe (we could both be wrong of course!), despite these experiential "confirmations". So when we consider the fact that people of different faiths also have spiritual experiences, we have to be open to the idea that either others' aren't "genuine" or "authentic". This fact about spiritual experiences means that the objective reasons for what we believe become even more important.

Could you explain what the Qur'an challenge (that there is "no surah like it") actually is? What is it about the uniqueness of the Qur'an that means it must be from God? If it is the Qur'an's linguistic beauty, how can this be measured objectively?

Yours,
Euthyphro

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow

Now to explain to Euthyphro how our past few posts relate to "The Injil"

In this recent dialogue between Bro Al-manar and myself I became aware that there is Tafsir that give a more accurate portrayal of what the Qur'an says, than what I have stated. I may have to clarify some of my comments after I read the tafsir. Tafsir equates to being a commentary or explanation. Anything I say is only my own opinion unless I can relate it back to accepted tafsir or simply to the specific ayyats in the Qur'an without my opinion.

What do these Tafsir say that is different to what you've said so far?

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow

To a non Arabic speaker the Qur'anic Challenge is difficult to understand. I agree with you that an English (or any other Language) reader can find very beautiful works of literary art and in their opinion believe they are equal to the Qur'an. It does seem to a non-Arabic speaker that this challenge is judged by the objectivity of the reader.

Salaam Woodrow,

Did you mean the subjectivity of the reader?

To give a short description of what I believe it would require of a person to meet the Qur'anic Challange.

1. It would have to contain thoughts not expressed in any previous literature of the language.

2. It would need to be in a dialect that is not spoken colloquially, yet can be understood by all speakers of the language, no matter how diverse the dialects are.

3. It needs to be written in a form in which if a single word is altered it can be readily seen as being out of place. (In the Qur'an in any ayyat if you alter any word, it will no longer have the rhythmic flow of the ayyat and immediately be seen as out of place, even by a non-Muslim who never read the Qur'an)

4. It has to be of a melodious tone yet be as readily understood as prose.

Those were essentially what I was looking for in Arabic Literature when in my pre-Islamic era I was viewing the Qur'an as a literary form and tried to find other works in the same form.

Roughly as an oversimplification it would be similar as somebody, who never read the US Bill of Rights, to write the US bill of rights as a song to the tune of the "willian Tell overture" and carry the the full meaning of the Bill of Rights and understood by all English speakers no matter what dialect or colloquial form they speak.

I can find no explanation for the Qur'an except it is the unique word of God(swt)

I don't see why any of those four requirements necessarily require a divine explanation (for they're hardly miraculous). For each individual requirement, I could easily come up with an example with satisfies it. And as you said, much of the challenge is subjective: what makes one piece of literature of a "more melodious tone" than another?

More interestingly, I think, your criteria have absolutely nothing to do with the truth-claims of the literature in question. Your requirements are completely independent of the content of the literature - strange when the Qur'an is supposed to be a meaningful revelation to all of mankind.

Even more strange is the fact that these requirements are completely untestable for non-Arabic speakers - and I find it hard to believe that Allah would expect non-Arabic speakers to accept the Qur'an by blind faith, especially when it makes claims (such as "Jesus never died") which, judging by all other evidence, are false.

Yours,
Euthyphro

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow

Peace Euthyphro,

I'll address your last paragraph first.

I suspect you would not accept my old cliche Catholic explanation of things like the "It is a mystery my son, we can not understand and must accept it as a matter of faith"

I didn't think you would. Nor should you be expected to. Islam is a religion of personal responsibility and we are obligated to avoid blind faith and seek to learn and study so we understand with informed faith.

I believe I have at lest a little understanding of where you are coming.

I do appreciate what you said here.

I do not deny that those requirements are untestable for n on-Arabic speakers. Even deeper I do not believe any translation of the Qur'an is the Qur'an. The Qur'an can only be written and/or spoken in Arabic.

That is not expected. Nor is it required for a person to understand the Qur'an to accept Islam. However if a person does accept Islam they will do their best to learn to read the Qur'an to the best of their ability. A person can accept Islam with little or no knowledge of the Qur'an. It is easy to become a Muslim, but it takes a lifetime to be a Muslim

I'm glad you can empathise with the way I am seeing things here, and that you agree with me about the importance of having reasons for what we believe. However, your last paragraph confused me. In order to become a Muslim, you have to believe that the Qur'an is one of Allah's Books. How is it possible to have an informed faith in Islam with no knowledge of the Qur'an?

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow

Yes we have to believe all of the books revealed to the Prophets. However in order to accept Islam we need only have a desire to serve and worship God(swt). The basic requirement to become Muslim is to believe in all sincerity that there is but one God(swt) and Muhammad(PBUH) is his Prophet. There is no ritual, ceremony or the like for a person to accept Islam. No required classes, no type of mandatory teaching. This is a choice between the person and Allaah(swt) nothing is required except for a person to say the Shahadah with full sincerity. Although many people these days want to say it in the Masjid, it really makes no difference where it is said. It can be and often is said alone with no witness except Allaah(swt)

Once a person accepts Islam, the desire to learn how to be a Muslim becomes very intense and is the beginning of a lifetime of learning and questioning.

OK, well how can you sincerely believe that Mohammed is Allah's Prophet without believing that the Qur'an is from Allah?

format_quote Originally Posted by GreyKode

Can you become a christian without having knowledge of the bible?
If no and you have to read the bible first, what miraculous aspect of the bible makes you think it is one of GOD's books?

I think what brother woodrow is trying to convey here is that Islam is centrally based on absolute monotheism and submission to ALLAH(swt), that is what I personally and probably brother woodorw too thinks is the primary element of truth in Islam, on top of that the teachings and guidance of the prophet mohammed(pbuh) and the Qur'an add up to the the truth.

Becoming a Christian has nothing to do with knowledge - it's about being "born again": receiving God's gift of a new, transformed life. This gift only comes by God's grace - it cannot be earned by anything we think or say or do.