is Allah fair ? Yes!

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

unfortunatly yes ... like i said in the reply above to another person
i work 12 hours a day .. 6 days a week .. sometimes 7 days
just enough to get simplest things i need and want

people get born rich without working for a thing

it's rough being buried in work for such long hours at young age and not being able to enjoy little in life
and seeing others do .. not coz they earned it ... just coz they were choosed or prefered by allah
i meet alot of rich people in my job they some times bring their sons which nearly in my age
they speak of travel and fun and stuff bla bla bla
while me just buried in work for the unworthy pay at the end of the week

this alone could create a hatred for the one behind it
none of us worked before they were born did we ?

then how come there's high and low ?
and why should i be on the low end of things while actually working hard
and why some spoiled kid should be on the high end of things without working day in their life ?

life is unfair people say .. but none Ever said god is unfair
but life isn't a logical being or got character or intellegence... allah does
and it was allah who created this life and every thing on it .. bad or good
so it's allah's actions that requires explaination to be understood

i get told yeah you'll get better than them in the afterlife ect ect ect
what if i stopped believe due to this situation Before reaching the after life
will i be in hell then ? for simply having a doubt about allah which he never answered
and the spoiled rich kid who also believed in god but due to his good situation in his life
he didn't even thought of asking such question neither had doubts
he'll go to heaven ?

you see .. life is just passway to the after life .. but our actions decide wheather hell or heaven we go to
and with enough pressures in life person could have enough at some point

From reading your replies here and somewhat psychoanalysis of what you have said, it seems you have a different perspective of life. It seems you want those things which you dont have, and it seems hard to you to get those things (by working tirelessly etc) and now your questions are related to that i.e. why did God put you in difficult situations while others in easy situations, situations you want to be in. The logical mistake that you are committing is that you are judging people's lives as good or bad based on your perception, and not theirs. A rich kid next door very well might be suffering from a disease that you are unaware of?

And do you know that there are certain diseases which target rich people and not poor? For example, certain kinds of cancer.

I think if you change your perspective of this worldly life, your questions will become non-questions. If you realize that "enjoyment" of worldly life is fleeting, I think you might actually not even want to be like the rich kid next door who drives a car that you cannot ever dream of.

Regarding the philosophical question that why did God make you this and not give you the option to you to decide how you want to be born, I think if you take God out of the picture, you get the same reply. Even if you believe in mother nature or the Might universe, these things also did not give you the chance to be born the way you wanted to be. So in the end, not being able to born the way you wanted to be, has no effect on the existence of God. You very well would be born without any of your control over it even if God did not exist.

astagfirullah.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

i may know of islam more than you do friend
it's my religion from birth .. and got a very religious father we go in this debate dozen times of week
my sister attained the rank of " داعية اسلام "
so i know what am talking about when it comes to islam
but even with such rank she never been able to convice me or give any answer for those questions
most people answer with spiritual evidences and answers
what i want is logic explaintion not spiritual relief

I agree you know more about Islam than I do and very possibly more than I will ever know. But it may be I have more experience than you in the realm of logic and self-determination. Over 60 years of my life was in the secular realm and often ruled by a life based upon logic and logical explanations and answers. I no longer want or desire logical explanations, as I pass through what are most certainly my twilight years I need the respite and knowledge of spiritual relief. It is all that is of importance to me in these last years.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

i know all facts of islam ... thing you might never heard of considering my main language is arabic
and at school at young age i been taught alot of islam in school
as soon as i grew up to 16 nothing made sense anymore and nothing seemed right
and 6 years have past and still i think nothing improved wrong still wrong

I know a lot about neuro surgery, I would imagine considerably more than the average general practitioner doctor. But I doubt if that qualifies me to be a brain surgeon.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

following blindly is not being able to explain something and accept it as " god never does wrong "
i don't know if he does wrong or not ... but to believe so the mind must be convinced
we see alot of wrong doing and injustice during our daily life

We see what we believe to be wrong doing and injustice.

A child may see what appears to be an evil man cutting holes in a child with a sharp knife. the same man gives another child a candy bar and a smile. Does it seem the man is fair to both children? what if you discover the man is a doctor and he is saving the life of the first child who has a ruptured appendix and soothing the other child who is the first child's scared sister?

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

yeah well i work 12 hours a day for simple things i need and want " am on 3 days vacation " yay
a kid next door with rich father don't work at all and got car i can't even dream of
none of us actually worked in their mother's womb to get more than others
yet we weren't all born equal ...

I retired from active employment over 20 years ago as the result of a disability. I only wish I could return to working 12 hours a day, I would gladly work for free. You have indeed been given a great gift by being able to work 12 hours per day.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

a rich person wouldn't never say why am rich and why that man poor
but a poor person would ask such question naturally
and when allah don't provide the answer the man eiather follow blindly .. or simply don't follow allah
there's other option is to keep searching for some kind of explaintion .. but the search will fail
as you can see

Searching only fails when a person closes his mind to searching in the right place. One can not find a head of lettuce if he keeps looking for it in the bottom of a fish pond.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

i tried talking to alot of people about it and none seem to have the answer
only allah has it ... it's matter of giving it .. or not giving it

would you recognize the answer if you saw it?

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

a king tells you he's good and fair and just and ect ect ect
but in his actions you don't see any of those things he claim .. i simply wouldn't follow that king

he got his own reasons to do what he does ? perhaps
but since i don't know his reason i am right not to follow till those reasons are cleared

A king is a human, he lives under the same rules as you. You can judge if a king is just but not if God is just. You cannot know God's reasoning since you do not have the information or intellect to comprehend it. By definition everything God does is just.
It is like the story where Al-Khidr does things which appear bad and unjust and Moses (pbuh) keeps asking him how he can do such awful things. Later Al-Khidr explains his knowledge and why those things were actually just. Since Allah has ALL knowledge, who do you think is best to judge what is just? Him? or you?

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

as much as i hate to say it but you're right
it seems like there's no answer
and by treated unfairly i don't only talk of my self even others
i walk the streets and find a homeless woman at the corner of the street and it's winter cold as hell
walk alittle more and find a guy with fancy car drinking with his gf sitting next to him
when the beggar lady approach him for little money he get the eww look on his face and drives away
this is example of one thing i saw
there's many things are wrose

Justice doesn't all happen in life, it is balanced out after death. The rich guy you see having an easy life will have to explain why he didn't use his money and time responsibly whereas someone working 12 hours a day for the basics probably won't. Btw the Quran tells us we are all tested so the guy will have his own trials at some time.

Many people suffer and always ask why me. The answer has been given by Allah but we find it difficult to accept. Just because you like something it doesn't make it good for you.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless

A king is a human, he lives under the same rules as you. You can judge if a king is just but not if God is just. You cannot know God's reasoning since you do not have the information or intellect to comprehend it. By definition everything God does is just.
It is like the story where Al-Khidr does things which appear bad and unjust and Moses (pbuh) keeps asking him how he can do such awful things. Later Al-Khidr explains his knowledge and why those things were actually just. Since Allah has ALL knowledge, who do you think is best to judge what is just? Him? or you?



Justice doesn't all happen in life, it is balanced out after death. The rich guy you see having an easy life will have to explain why he didn't use his money and time responsibly whereas someone working 12 hours a day for the basics probably won't. Btw the Quran tells us we are all tested so the guy will have his own trials at some time.

Many people suffer and always ask why me. The answer has been given by Allah but we find it difficult to accept. Just because you like something it doesn't make it good for you.

in all your post is hope for those that would consider themselves beyond redemption and god mercy.
and fear upon those that would consider themselves righteous and obedient.

..sorry bro the bold might be the wrong way round, but im just being a prat.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

first of all sorry the i know more than you thing wasn't meant for you
it was meant for a person who said i don't know much of islam ... maybe i made mistake while replying i don't know but eiatherw ways it wasn't for you sorry again

i already agreed that a person older than me would have more experinces than me
but i'd have to experince for my self to believe ... you also had to didn't you ?

you just mentioned it .. we see what we believe wrong and injustice
it could happen for reason we as human being and limited with thinking could not know
which results that we are right to think it's wrong and injustice " according to our knowledge "
a judge at the court judge by what he knows and see .. not of what he don't

that pretty much explains the child example you brought

and i am gifted with the ability to work with strong body and all yes
but to what purpose ? if working all am doing and not enjoying life at all
then working is meaningless
it's not a gift it's rather a curse .. to work so much for so little
and not even be able to enjoy the so little you worked hard for

and am still searching aren't i ? even though am desperate enough to search on internet now .. but it's still searching
asking people of islam in life i ceased it .. coz it ends badly
eiather with the opposite side runs out of idea and start mocking my intellgence
or simply giving up and saying . may allah enlighten your spirit

there's no shame with questioning in my opinion .. even questioning allah's actions
for if we do not question and use the brain he given us then we don't fully understand and believe in allah

I see no harm in you knowing more about Islam than I do. I am still a child in Islam having accepted it only 6 years ago.

You have a very great gift in the desire to ask questions. Time and experience will guide you into finding the best place to ask specific questions. May this gift serve you well and you master it as one of the best tools available to us humans.

Your ability to work 12 hours is a gift, that Insha Allaah you will one day look back and see as having been a great joy and not the drab duty they seem to be today. Although I have long passed the ability for gainful work, I still try to work as much as possible by raising horses. Hmmmm, perhaps I am working harder than I thought I was able too, I know very few young men who are capable of doing some of the things I have to do with untrained horses. To me the ability to work is a great gift even when it goes without compensation.

I wonder what you mean by enjoying life? I find great joy and enjoyment looking out across the vast prairie and seeing the sight of a tatanka:



Or a summer sunset:



or one of my horses:



Just what is really needed to enjoy life beside the appreciation of life and that which has been created?

this life is an illusion of sorts. we can't see Allah, NOR can we see His WISDOM OR His Qadr in advance.

UNTIL the race is done, Yawmul Qiyama, we simply don't have the facts or the tools to decide.

HOWEVER, we believe Allah. He tells us that He is Ar Rahman Ar Raheem. IF you don't believe that, you DON'T believe Him.

AFTER Yawmul Qiyama, i reckon some in the hellfire will feel they have been mistreated.

EVERYONE in Jannah will be there by Allah's Mercy. IF any of them feel it unfair, i'll doubt they will be offering to trade places with someone in the Hellfire.

SADLY, i reckon there will be alot more "Muslims" in the hellfire than expected to be there.

THAT SAID, May Allah grant us Goodness in the life, Goodness in the Hereafter and May He protect us from the Hellfire!

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

thanks man ..
and it's good for you to work at old age to keep shape
as soon you let age take the best of you .. you can no longer rise out of bed so working is good
but it's not good for a young guy to work alot of time
those simple things you mentioned aren't avilable to someone like me
working 12 hours in tiring job leaves you bearly enough time to go home wash eat sleep
wakes up wash and dress and go to work .. that's it

enjoying life i mean by going out and do stuff including the ones you mentioned
but being stuck at work for long late hours prevent that .. and without job there's money to make living
so it's tough break

But there is a trade off. Yes I do get to enjoy many things, but with them comes a great and painful price. I do have the wide open prairie suroounding me but it also means I am very far from any city and in the event of a medical emergency there is no medical help. Yes I do live on the Beautiful prairie, but there is nothing to block the bitter winds and the temperature can and often does drop to 60 degrees below zero in a very short time sometimes in just a matter of a minute. Yes, I do experience much joy, but I pay a very high price for it, so all is fair. I live here by choice and enjoy the gains but also need to accept the hardships and dangers that come with it. so far this winter I had some great personal loses not the least of which was having 3 of my favorite horses freeze to death. that caused much sorrow, but in spite of the sorrow and pain I did have the joy of enjoying their company even though it was temporary. It is/was all fair.

Greetings and peace be with you Sorrow Embrace;

I asked for Strength.........
And Allah gave me Difficulties to make me strong.
I asked for Wisdom.........
And Allah gave me Problems to solve.
I asked for Prosperity.........
And Allah gave me Brain and Brawn to work.
I asked for Courage.........
And Allah gave me Danger to overcome.
I asked for Love.........
And Allah gave me Troubled people to help.
I asked for Favours.........
And Allah gave me Opportunities.

I received nothing I wanted
I received everything I needed
My Prayer has been answered.

Pray for Others to Heal Yourself.
The Prophet was always concerned about other people, Muslims and non-Muslims, and would regularly pray for them. Praying for others connects you with them and helps you understand their suffering. This in itself has a healing component to it. The Prophet has said that praying for someone who is not present increases love.

In the spirit of searching for a just and merciful God who answers our prayers.

Eric

format_quote Originally Posted by Sorrow Embrace

thanks man ..
and it's good for you to work at old age to keep shape
as soon you let age take the best of you .. you can no longer rise out of bed so working is good
but it's not good for a young guy to work alot of time
those simple things you mentioned aren't avilable to someone like me
working 12 hours in tiring job leaves you bearly enough time to go home wash eat sleep
wakes up wash and dress and go to work .. that's it

enjoying life i mean by going out and do stuff including the ones you mentioned
but being stuck at work for long late hours prevent that .. and without job there's money to make living
so it's tough break

I am sorry to say but now your posts have become less philosophical and more of emotional rants. Are you really 22 years old, I mean no offense.

Life is like that. Should not you feel grateful that despite all the odds, the sperm and the egg you are made of survived the grueling journey in the loins of your father and ovaries of your mother? If the sperm you are made of was able to survive the acidic and haunting microenvironment of a woman's uterus, I am sure you can survive through life and all of its challenges.

Assalaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,

Dear Brother;

1.This world is a field of trial and examination and is not the place of getting rewards.Allah SWT is testing us in order to develop our abilities and in order to show endless degrees of His names (asma).Every one has a different type of test depending on different abilities.

2. There is a Hadith the meaning of which is, “Those afflicted with the severest trials are the prophets, then the saints and those like them.” That is, “Those most afflicted with tribulations and difficulties are the best of men, the most perfect.” For example the Prophet Ayyub AS and the other prophets, then the saints, then the righteous, have regarded the illnesses they have suffered as sincere worship, as gifts of the Most Merciful; they have offered thanks in patience. They have seen them as surgical operations performed by the All-Compassionate Creator’s mercy.

3. Just as the penalties of those perpetrating small crimes are delivered locally, and serious crimes are sent to the high courts, so too, according to the rules, the small errors of believers and close friends are punished swiftly and in part in this world, in order to quickly purify them. But the crimes of the people of misguidance are so great that since their punishments cannot be contained in this brief worldly life, as required by justice they are referred to the Supreme Tribunal in the eternal realm, and mostly do not receive any punishment here.
The Hadith “This world is the prison of the believers and the Paradise of the unbelievers” also alludes to this truth. That is to say, because the believer receives partial punishment for his faults in this world, it is a place of punishment for him. In relation to his happiness in the Hereafter, this world is a dungeon and Hell. And since the unbelievers will not be released from Hell and they in part receive the rewards for their good works in this world and their large sins are postponed, this world is their Paradise in relation to their life in the Hereafter. For in reality and in meaning the believer is far happier in this world also than the unbeliever. A believer’s faith is quite simply like a Paradise in his spirit; while the unbelief of the unbeliever sets afire a sort of Hell in his being.

4. Allah Almighty, in order to display His infinite power and unlimited mercy, has made inherent in man infinite impotence and unlimited want. Further, in order to display the endless embroideries of His Names, He has created man like a machine capable of receiving unlimited varieties of pain, as well as infinite varieties of pleasure. Within that human machine are hundreds of instruments, each of which has different pains and pleasures, different duties and rewards. Simply, all of the Divine Names manifested in the macroanthropos that is the world also have manifestations in the microcosm that is man. Beneficial matters like good health, well-being, and pleasures cause man to offer thanks and prompt the human machine to perform its functions in many respects, and thus man becomes like a factory producing thanks.

Similarly, by means of misfortune, illness and pain, and other motion-inducing contingencies, the other cogs of the human machine are set in motion and revolution. The mine of weakness, impotence, and poverty inherent in human nature is made to work. It induces in man a state whereby he seeks refuge and help not only with a single tongue, but with the tongue of each of his members. Thus by means of those contingencies man becomes like a moving pen comprising thousands of different pens. He inscribes the appointed course of his existence on the page of his life or the Tablet in the World of Similitudes; he puts forth a declaration of the Divine Names; and becomes himself an ode to the glory of Allah, thus fulfilling the duties of his nature.