In another thread a member here suggested I didn’t know where is / what is, dar al Islam; do you?
God and Muhammad seemed to know where it was when they urged Muslims to migrate to the ‘earth of God.’ The many Muslims today protesting the presence of non-Muslims troops in Iraq and other places seemed to know which land is Muslims land. So where / what is it?
God and Muhammad seemed to know where it was when they urged Muslims to migrate to the ‘earth of God.’
Firstly before attempting to answer your question, could you please post reference to this quote of yours, God willingly?
I hope others who are already aware of what you are asking, can answer you in detail insha'Allaah
As far as i am aware, Dar Al Islaam means House of Islaam? correct me if i am wrong.
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
In Dar al-Islam, the citizenry abide by the ordinances, rules, edicts, and assembly of Islam. The Muslim state guarantees the safety of life, property, and religious status (only if the religion is not idol-atrous) of minorities (ahl al-dhimma) provided they have submitted to Muslim control. Dar al-Harb (the abode of war) provides the contrast to Dar al-Islam. Shariʿa (Islamic) law divides the world into these two abodes. Dar al-Harb denotes territory that is not governed by the assembly of Islam, and is directly contiguous to the abode of Islam. Warfare (jihad) can be invoked in order to convert the abode of war into the abode of Islam, or to rescue the bordering abode. Theoretically, an abode of war can extend ad infinitum. Muslim states, in order to avoid conditions requiring constant jihad, yield to the decision of legal experts (ulama), who, based on certain criteria, accept or reject the notion that an area has converted from, or needs to be reconfigured into, Dar al-Islam. These are as follows: (1) the edicts of unbelievers have gained ascendancy; (2) unprotected Muslims and peoples of the book must be rescued; (3) territorial proximity to unbelievers has become repugnant.
In Dar al-Islam, the citizenry abide by the ordinances, rules, edicts, and assembly of Islam. The Muslim state guarantees the safety of life, property, and religious status (only if the religion is not idol-atrous) of minorities (ahl al-dhimma) provided they have submitted to Muslim control. Dar al-Harb (the abode of war) provides the contrast to Dar al-Islam. Shariʿa (Islamic) law divides the world into these two abodes. Dar al-Harb denotes territory that is not governed by the assembly of Islam, and is directly contiguous to the abode of Islam. Warfare (jihad) can be invoked in order to convert the abode of war into the abode of Islam, or to rescue the bordering abode. Theoretically, an abode of war can extend ad infinitum. Muslim states, in order to avoid conditions requiring constant jihad, yield to the decision of legal experts (ulama), who, based on certain criteria, accept or reject the notion that an area has converted from, or needs to be reconfigured into, Dar al-Islam. These are as follows: (1) the edicts of unbelievers have gained ascendancy; (2) unprotected Muslims and peoples of the book must be rescued; (3) territorial proximity to unbelievers has become repugnant.
Can you provide us with some proof exactly where the prophet Muhammad pbuh called areas dar al Islam and Darl al Harb???
Do you even know who made the idea of Dar al Islam - not only that sometimes there are more abodes then those 2. Most of the time people that see the world in black and white like to focus on those two.
Last edited by Zafran; 03-29-2011 at 02:20 PM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
I didn’t invent the terms dar al Islam and dar al harb, somebody else did. I started this thread because I used the term in another thread and was accused of not knowing what it was. It is a term I have come across many times in my studies of Islam and have formed a view of what it is / means (nothwithstanding that I haven’t researched the question (but I will)). I posted the topic to check my understanding against that of the collective here. That said, I know from experience that just because you call yourself Muslim doesn’t mean that your know anything about Islam but it interested me to know what your understanding of the term was.
Before I research the question I can tell you that I know (or to be more exact - believe) that the term ‘dar al Islam’ was never used by Muhammad and does not appear in the Qur’an. That said the word sunnah doesn’t appear in the Qur’an so does that mean that sunnah isn’t a suitable word to describe the instructions of God / Muhammad to emulate him?
I didn’t invent the terms dar al Islam and dar al harb, somebody else did. I started this thread because I used the term in another thread and was accused of not knowing what it was. It is a term I have come across many times in my studies of Islam and have formed a view of what it is / means (nothwithstanding that I haven’t researched the question (but I will)). I posted the topic to check my understanding against that of the collective here. That said, I know from experience that just because you call yourself Muslim doesn’t mean that your know anything about Islam but it interested me to know what your understanding of the term was.
Before I research the question I can tell you that I know (or to be more exact - believe) that the term ‘dar al Islam’ was never used by Muhammad and does not appear in the Qur’an. That said the word sunnah doesn’t appear in the Qur’an so does that mean that sunnah isn’t a suitable word to describe the instructions of God / Muhammad to emulate him?
You dont seem to understand who actually coined the terms dar al Islam its all good saying "somebody else did" who is that sombody else and why did he come up with these words in describing the world - what was the point of it?? If its not found in the Quran and not said by the prophet Muhammad pbuh who did and why do you find it so important to actually make a thread on it??
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
You ask who coined the term dar al Islam and why?
I don’t know and I can’t see how the who and why would be relevant.
You ask - what’s the point?
The point is to understand all there is to know, to seek out every truth and expose every lie.
The fact is that the term does exist and is in common use. And from my general understanding of what I have learned in my studies of Islam I can understand why someone might have come up with the term dar al Islam. The fact is (as I have come to see) is that Muslims have strong views that certain lands (countries) are Muslim lands and that means that they should be ruled by sharia law and that anyone residing there who is not Muslim must pay jizzyah.
Although Muhammad and the Qur’an do not use the words dar al Islam there are hundred of verses which speak in terms of Muslims and non Muslims as opposites and in terms of areas being ruled by Muslims and areas not being ruled by Muslims.
If dar al Islam is a redundant term does that mean that there are no Muslim countries?
in another thread and was accused of not knowing what it was
I think it was the thread called "where in the world you would want to live" right? If so, you wasnt accused of not knowing, your post had no relevance to the thread, it confused me and many others, but if it wasnt that thread, then i apologise.
The terms 'Dar Al Islaam' and 'Dar al Harb' may or may not have been mentioned in Qur'aan and sunnah, but they in a way part of shariah.
For example when a country is at war with another, the army is suppose to fight the army and not the civilians, but unfortunately this is what takes place in the world today, it is know as Dar Al Harb.
Dar Al Islaam means the land of peace. so an example is a country follows a single Islaamic law, and all other laws of Islaamic are not followed, then that land is known as the land of peace (Dar Al Islaam), whether it be in a muslim or a non-muslim country. A land where muslims including non-muslims are being given security. so if there is peace, cultural freedom,, religious freedom, all human rights are guaranteed protected and no fear to ones life, so because all this guaranteed peace between one another which is known as 'salaam', the word Islaam comes from the word salaam thats why its known as 'Dar Al Islaam' - The abode of peace. It doesnt matter where in the world this may be, whether it be USA, UK, etc etc, if this is practised then it is known as peaceful.
The Prophet Muhammad (Saw) during the time of prophethood, the people who accepted Islaam were in danger by those around them, so he asked to send them to Abbysinia where they would be safe, the king owner of that land was a Christian king ( i forgot the name) and the Prophet peace and blessings of God be unto him was aware of this, he still sent his people there as he trusted the king and knew they were to be safe there. He had no hate for anyone, he sallahu alaayhi wa salam sent them there, if the muslims were to remain in the city, they would be killed.
Surely, you must have seen the movie 'The Message' right?
I am not sure if i have made it clear, hopefully someone can make it more clear, and apologies if it doesnt make sense, i am sometimes bad at explaining.
may Allaah guide you the perfect way of life Ameen
.. peace ..
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
You ask who coined the term dar al Islam and why?
I don’t know and I can’t see how the who and why would be relevant.
You ask - what’s the point?
The point is to understand all there is to know, to seek out every truth and expose every lie.
The fact is that the term does exist and is in common use. And from my general understanding of what I have learned in my studies of Islam I can understand why someone might have come up with the term dar al Islam. The fact is (as I have come to see) is that Muslims have strong views that certain lands (countries) are Muslim lands and that means that they should be ruled by sharia law and that anyone residing there who is not Muslim must pay jizzyah.
Although Muhammad and the Qur’an do not use the words dar al Islam there are hundred of verses which speak in terms of Muslims and non Muslims as opposites and in terms of areas being ruled by Muslims and areas not being ruled by Muslims.
If dar al Islam is a redundant term does that mean that there are no Muslim countries?
Indeed there are muslim majority countires but that doesnt make them dar al Islam - For example Iraq now is dar al harb as there is actually a war going on there - you could say the same thing about Afghainstan. Those wars are wars of one culture forcing its views on another culture by force - like a monocluture ofcourse based on what the invaders want - no tax here - its either people accept or live in the abode of war.
Its not a fact that its a realy common term because your the one who likes using it so far and few of your extremist friends that you have a lot in common with. As I said there are much more abodes then the 2 that people like yourself like to focus on.
Your talking in vague terms as well becasue lets face it you havent a clue who came up with this idea and what its about and what muslims want - I'll give you a clue maybe looking at the abbasid period may help.
For the modern world maybe looking at Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and now syria would help you understand what Muslims think in muslim majority countries.
Good look on "exposing" the truth.
Last edited by Zafran; 03-29-2011 at 08:49 PM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
That is not correct. In order to find the meaning of a certain word in the Arabic dictionary, it is essential to search for the three letter infinitive verb which is called the root. Many words can be derived from the same root, but they don't necessarily have to have any similarity in their meaning. The word Islam, which means ‘submission’, is derived from the infinitive Salama. So is the word Salam which means ‘peace’ and so is the verb Salima which means ‘to be saved or to escape from danger’. One of the derivations of the infinitive Salama means ‘the stinging of a snake’ or ‘The tanning of the leather’. Hence, if the word Islam has something to do with the word Salam i.e. ‘Peace’, does that also mean that it must be related to the ‘stinging of the snake’ or ‘tanning the leather’?
Muhammad used to send letters to the kings and leaders of the surrounding countries and tribes, inviting them to surrender to his authority and to believe in him as the messenger of Allah. He always ended his letters with the following two words: "Aslim, Taslam!". Although these two words are derived from the same infinitive Salama which is the root of Salam, i.e. ‘Peace’, neither one of them implies the meaning of ‘peace’. The sentence means ‘surrender and you will be safe’, or in other words, ‘surrender or face death’.
That is not correct. In order to find the meaning of a certain word in the Arabic dictionary, it is essential to search for the three letter infinitive verb which is called the root. Many words can be derived from the same root, but they don't necessarily have to have any similarity in their meaning. The word Islam, which means ‘submission’, is derived from the infinitive Salama. So is the word Salam which means ‘peace’ and so is the verb Salima which means ‘to be saved or to escape from danger’. One of the derivations of the infinitive Salama means ‘the stinging of a snake’ or ‘The tanning of the leather’. Hence, if the word Islam has something to do with the word Salam i.e. ‘Peace’, does that also mean that it must be related to the ‘stinging of the snake’ or ‘tanning the leather’?
Muhammad used to send letters to the kings and leaders of the surrounding countries and tribes, inviting them to surrender to his authority and to believe in him as the messenger of Allah. He always ended his letters with the following two words: "Aslim, Taslam!". Although these two words are derived from the same infinitive Salama which is the root of Salam, i.e. ‘Peace’, neither one of them implies the meaning of ‘peace’. The sentence means ‘surrender and you will be safe’, or in other words, ‘surrender or face death’. So where is the meaning of ‘Peace’ in such a religion that threatens to kill other people if they don't submit to it?
I totally agree and disagree.
Firstly i provided you with an answer according to Islaam and not "what i think it should be".
Like you said many words derived from same root, but they do not all have the same meaning. The term of Islaam i was referring to was to 'submission', if you didnt notice i just mentioned it again. But i can understand now why many who would think bad of Islaam, it is because they either believe what they see,hear etc e.g. the muslims who commit acts against Islaam, or those who know nothing regarding the faith of Islaam do not study Islaam from the 'Islamic' perspective. Islam doesnt teach regarding the 'stinging of a snake', nor the 'tanning of leather', the Islamic teaching is purely based on peace, literally meaning, kindness, respecting one another no matter what your faith is etc etc.
From your post there seems to be a lack of respect, you claim to be intelligent, yet you dont think about being respectful to the faith we are talking in regards of. What i mean by this, as Muslims we always use the term (peace be unto him) after every time we mention the name of the beloved prophet, if you had some sincerety, you would have at least referred to him in that way. This to me shows there is no intelligency.
you also claimed that Islaam is the religion which threathens to kill one if they dont accept. Let me tell you that your claim contradicts the teachings of the Qur'aan and incorrect. you also contradict yourself . You seem to be aware that Islaam means submission, so you must also be aware that as Muslims, we turn to Allaah in submission, each and every servant of his turns to him in submission to whatever they do, what step they must take in life etc. So if i was to kill someone if they didnt turn to Allaah, i would indeed fail in my mission, as that person i threatened would have not whole heartedly accepted Islaam.
A person must accept faith from the heart, with sincerety, not with "i am only following Islaam coz im scared of being killed", and those who kill someone i.e. threatening them, they are definetly on the wrong, Allaah many times mentions in the Qur'aan that he does NOT love the transgressors.
"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you (O Muhammad SAW) then compel mankind, until they become believers. It is not for any person to believe, except by the Leave of Allah, and He will put the wrath on those who are heedless" [Al Qur'aan-Surah Al Yoonus. ayah 99-100]
I am a muslim and Alhamdulilaah, my Job is to invite you the way of my lord and yours, not to threaten you nor make you an enemy. We as Muslims are commanded to invite in a peacefull manner and not grant you against your will, it is only up to you whether you want to accept or not, i am in no power to force you. The Qur'aan testifies this, those who go against it are indeed misguided. I advice you, anytime you wish to ask a question or base your opinions upon, even myself as a Muslim, i am not in the position to base my opinions as mine and yours are nothing against the one who created me. I was created by him and there will be a time i shall return to him, so shall each and everyone of us, every living creature.
I apologise if i have not made sense, and forgive me for anything harsh, wrong i may have said.
.. peace ..
Last edited by Ğħαrєєвαħ; 03-30-2011 at 11:55 AM.
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
God and Muhammad seemed to know where it was when they urged Muslims to migrate to the ‘earth of God.’
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
Before I research the question I can tell you that I know (or to be more exact - believe) that the term ‘dar al Islam’ was never used by Muhammad and does not appear in the Qur’an.
Greetings of peace
I totally agree and disagree.
..
I will try to answer your post without cutting and pasting. In these forums we form views of each other based upon what we read in the posts and I have formed the view that you are a good person with honest intent. I disagree with your view that ‘blind faith’ should prevail but I much respect you for taking the time to engage with me.
With regards to the post in question it’s absolutely about linguistics, it’s not opinion or faith or anything else ‘dar al Islam’ does not mean ‘house of peace’ that’s simply just not true.
The statement you made “you also claimed that Islaam is the religion which threatens to kill one if they don't accept,” I think you may have mixed me up with someone else, I didn’t say that.
On the question of my lack of respect – I don’t respect ignorance, I don’t respect lies and I don’t respect hypocrisy. If I see a post which is stupid, lies, ignorant or hypocrisy I will challenge it. I believe that everyone not just me, every Muslims should challenge everything so that they are sure that it is the truth. You believe that you should submit i,e. not question. If you are suggesting that challenging Islam is disrespectful you are saying that no one can ask any questions which doubt the status quo i.e. don’t ask just submit - that's submitting to ignorance.
Here is the quote, to confirm i didnt mix up anyone
format_quote Originally Posted by Thinker
So where is the meaning of ‘Peace’ in such a religion that threatens to kill other people if they don't submit to it?
I agree. I didnt say in my post that you musnt question, you are allowed to question, but when questioning you have to realise your the questioner and not the one with the knowledge of the question you placed, that is why one asks the question. so here what you have misunderstood is that Islaam maybe forbids one to question the faith, that is incorrect ofcourse, even I myself ask questions of issues i have no knowledge regarding in relation to Islaam, i do not base my opinion in place of the knowledgeable who have studied the issue longer, have authentic evidence etc. So as muslims we are informed to questions and to not follow blindly, you must have seen soo many threads here on IslamicBoard where people ask questions and they are then being answered.
If you study the words Dar Al Islaam in arabic, you will find it does mean The abode of peace/ house of peace, in other words it does relate to the terms of having peace alltogether.
Ofcourse no doubt we have different opinions, even as muslim to muslim, one may have difference of opinion to the other.
And in no way am i saying challenging Islaam is disrespectful, but what i am saying is disrespectful is that one shows respect to the one whom they are speaking to. For example if there is a non-muslim who wills to have a discussion with a muslim, the non-muslim mocks the muslims faith or prophet in any way or form, this is known as disrespectful
In your case i meant that you seem to be aware of 'some' issues regarding Islaam and you seem to have been here on this forum for a while (longer than myself) so you must have read some information regarding the faith of Islaam itself, like the Muslims say peace be unto him after every prophets name they mention, i thought i would remind you, but if you do not know then you do now, and i apologise if i sounded harsh.
I quote from my previous post
format_quote Originally Posted by Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм
A person must accept faith from the heart, with sincerety, not with "i am only following Islaam coz im scared of being killed", and those who kill someone i.e. threatening them, they are definetly on the wrong, Allaah many times mentions in the Qur'aan that he does NOT love the transgressors.
If it wasnt through the sincerety of believing in the One and Only true God, one would not believe. To believe in God you must be sincere, sincerey comes from knowing what you are following is the truth. So when one asks questions and when they are satisfied with the answer, and it completes them, they are then sincere. There are other ways to how someone finds this peace for example evidence surrounds them, so this leads them to believe by this i mean this world, it was not created by itself, it was created by somone, so many other ways. But also realise there are still some who do not feel satisfied, so they feel the urge to ask more questions, and again i repeat there is no wrong in this, so keep asking questions.
I apologise for the long post
.. peace ..
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
Indeed it is seen by Muslims as the house of peace and always has been - If Thinker as the odd view which no muslim agrees with.
The root of Islam comes from Peace and to be safe - I disagree with you other root word definition maybe telling us where you got it from becasue I've never heard a single muslim on the planet describe the way you are.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Salaam is the Arabic word for peace (as in the country named Dare es Salaam)
Islam is Arabic word for submission.
Because the two words come from the same source doesn’t mean they mean the same thing.
Dar al Islam is the land of submission (the land of the people who submit to God (the God of Muhammad)); I can’t see why some find that explanation difficult to live with.
The very first verse of the Qur'aan says "Allhamdulilaahi Rabbil Alameen" which means "All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)."
You seem to miss that Islaam was sent for the whole of the world, not for one particular nation, Muslims are found in all parts of the world. The God of Muhammad (pbuh) is the lord of mankind, i.e. including you and me, the last and final messenger Muhammad (pbuh) was sent for all of mankind. I actually explained to you all of this in my previous post where i explained about Dar Al Islaam and Dar Al Harb, about there not being a certain country etc etc, please read it again and hopefully it will make more sense to you.
There is no such place that is the land of submission, as muslims we can worship our creator no matter where we are, whether it be a non-muslim country.
Are you trying to say that Islaam means evil or bad or something? A long with submission it also means peace. What i mean by this when we submit to our creator we submit in peace. The thing is this is how me and every muslim on this board sees Islaam as, there are also arabic speakers on here, if it meant evil/bad or killing someone, a religion that isnt peaceful.
I as a muslim am a submitter.
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
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. You seem to be aware that Islaam means submission, so you must also be aware that as Muslims, we turn to Allaah in submission, each and every servant of his turns to him in submission to whatever they do, what step they must take in life etc. So if i was to kill someone if they didnt turn to Allaah, i would indeed fail in my mission, as that person i threatened would have not whole heartedly accepted Islaam.
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