I am just wanting to know if free speech exists in Islam? I think No because of the stories I hear in the media about muslims wanting to censor certain things that they find offensive.
If it doesn't exist then how can people in Islam ever discuss and debate new ideas and move on if they can't say whatever they want whenever they want?
I am just wanting to know if free speech exists in Islam?
format_quote Originally Posted by Sweetshot
I think No
Why do you pose a Q is you already have the answer? Not allowing us much room for free speech here either are you?
Do you know the difference between 'free speech' - 'hate speech' and frank libel and slander..
'Free speech' like questioning the holocaust can land you in jail in the 'free west' so I've no idea why you bother with this non-question, which seems like you've already answered for yourself!
There is certainly room for questioning, discussion or debate if you want to call it that in Islam. At the same time wouldn't you agree that people should be responsible with what they say? If your idea of free speech is to be able to say whatever offensive things you want without backlash then that is plain stupidity.
Just look at this forum, you have a different sub sections and one of them is where you can "discuss and debate". The free speech you are talking about that "offends" muslims is not freedom of speech but freedumb of speech.
If by freedom of speech you mean that anyone should be able to say anything they want about anyone/anything, even if that is wrong/offensive, then no.
In Islam, we have guidelines for everything, inluding speech, which, amongst other things, are based on respect, and thus certain types of speech are unacceptable, such as backbiting, slander, lies etc.
So in Islam, the maxim isn't that you can say anything at all about anyone. No. There are limits, just as we have limits to what we can eat/drink, how we dress etc. We can enjoy full relations with the opposite gender within the institution of marriage, we can eat and drink freely from what God has told us is good and lawful for us, so we can speak freely within the guidelines laid down for us.
Here are some examples from the Qur'an of disliked/forbidden types of speech:
Allah does not like that evil should be uttered in public except by him who has been wronged. And Allah is Ever All-Hearer, All-Knower. (4:148)
And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allah, lest they insult Allah wrongfully without knowledge. Thus We have made fair-seeming to each people its own doings; then to their Lord is their return and He shall then inform them of all that they used to do. (6:108)
O you who have believed, do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet or be loud to him in speech like the loudness of some of you to others, lest your deeds become worthless while you perceive not. (49:2)
O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not defame one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers. (49:11)
O you who have believed, Avoid much suspicions, indeed some suspicions are sins. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would detest it (so detest the other). And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful. (49:12)
Your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him, and that you be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour. (17:23)
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
a muslim is constantly taught that the two organs which can lead a person to hell is the tongue and what lies between the thighs.
Where a muslim is constantly taught to speak good or remain silent and uphold whats right, we are also taught not to stand for sickening allegations attrociously hurled against the master (Muhammad peace be upon him) whom we all hold more dear to our hearts then our own parents.
if you wish to speak freely then do so constructively, destructive speech will only bring about what its nature beckons.
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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Absolute freedom of speech cannot exist, so theres no use in trying to champion it.
Like said about, in countries places like USA and UK etc, you cannot say anything you want can you? You cannot openly be racist, cannot insult homosexuals and others - so why pretend you have freedom of speech yet accept restrictions?
To answer your question more directly, perhaps if you follow this you would get a better understanding of Islaam:
Islaam from its very basic meaning means to submit to the Creator - as opposed to submitting to ones own desires. Straight away this means that we cannot do whatever we like, say whatever we like or believe whatever we like. All of this has to be authorised by God [hence we follow His Messengers/Books/guidance].
Now, God has told us certain obligations and certain prohibited/disliked actions - after these God has allowed us to have freedom. Certain parts of His laws have to be strictly followed without alteration [such as acts of ritual worship and others] while others parts have general guidelines with more leeway for us to decide [like in many things, dont no where to start].
After all that, those who followed His laws would be rewarded whilst those who believed in it but did not follow as much as required would be both punished and rewarded and those who didnt believe in it would be punished but not reward.
So we urge you to find out more about it and hopefully embrace it - as we dont want people punished
[Definitely the wrong place to write this], but i was curious as to what 'reputation received' means. JZK and sorry for posting it here...and please reply briefly so we can get back to the discussion at hand.
Thanks for all your replies. I dont think the UK has freedom of speech fully yet but were getting close. Someone said that in the UK you cant be racist and homophobic or you'll go to jail sorry but that just isnt true. There are many groups that are openly homophobic and racist and facist that go about doing what they do without doing jail time. look at the groups islamuk and edl. Look at the usa and groups like the westboro baptist church. For me as long as you're not arranging and conspiring to beat up or kill or tortuere people who you dont like you can be as loving or as hateful in your speech. I see we are reaching a current trend in the uk and the west in general that people dont have the freedom to debate pressing issues at the moment such as immigration, civil liberties, equality without the fear of saying something that is going to offend groups of people and you know soon were going to be looking to our governbment to what we can and cant say and then what we can and cant do... and then you know we'll think something wrong and government will crack down... 1984 anyone?! I just think there are many ways to not get offended by something somebody says and what does it matter anyway if it offends you right? if you want to put a religous spin on it then your god will punish them for what they did right? he's not going to punish you for what they said? It has shown itself recently with the murders of diplomats in islam countries from something an american pastor put on youtube... am i the only one who finds that whole sentence pathetic...? people lost their lives because of a youtube clip. you know there are a couple of clips on the net that really infuriate me and offended me to my core am i now justified in killing people because of said clips? (rhetorical) i digress to me the murders are sad and shouldn't of happened but the bigger question to me is and it comes to freedom of speech, behaviour like this, wether one of the faith feels it is justified as somebody posted verse from the quran about public speaking or your freedoms of speech in islam which to me is a bit ironic, rules for your freedom of speech but anyway as i said about ideas and movements being criticised how are the conversations or debates i mentioned ever to happen if groups and i dont just mean muslims any group what now if the gay community or the neo nazi community of the liberals what ever took a leaf from the muslims book, and i generalize here for my point but anyway what if the neo nazi decided that the country of sweden was doing wrong by having equality for all races.. and started killing people to and protesting all round the world to try change swedens law, not going to happen and its an extreme but any of you see where I'm at on this whole freedom of speech thing? its not just some "hey in islam you cant say nothing bad bout your prophet yeh so how youz all got freedom of speech lolzzz so im gonna come on dis forum to prove youz all rong haha lolol" I signed up to the forum because i want to believe that muslims like the rest of humanity in general are good people who value freedom and each others personal liberty that the majority of the horrors i read or see on the net are just the minority however i asked this first question maybe it was inflammatory, sorry, worded it wrong i guess but most of the replies have just been i dont know why you ask this question you dont even have feedom of speech in the west so lol. My opinion is simple and only that an opinion but here in the uk we have an ok freedom of speech at the moment like i said not good enough for me yet but to say in muslim countries and im not just on about religous issues like blasphemy im on about issues like a gay man having the freedom to be publicy gay, the freedom to speak out against your government, the freedom to speak against the status quo, you cannot do this in countries like iran syria jordan and to say you can is ignoring the facts to suit an agenda. I mean here in the uk we allow muslim protesters to protest at british soldiers funerals we allow the edl to protest randomly it seems and just like in america the westboro baptist church is allowed to protest us troops funerals. to me fredom of speech does not mean the right to be offended. sorry for the wall of text 5am here just about to head off to work.
Muslims will always respond accourding to what the Quran and Hadiths say for them to view any topic. If there is any topic outside of that realm sure they can say as they like.
There is certainly room for questioning, discussion or debate if you want to call it that in Islam. At the same time wouldn't you agree that people should be responsible with what they say? If your idea of free speech is to be able to say whatever offensive things you want without backlash then that is plain stupidity.
Just look at this forum, you have a different sub sections and one of them is where you can "discuss and debate". The free speech you are talking about that "offends" muslims is not freedom of speech but freedumb of speech.
I personally have never come across a forum or board which is more heavily censored than this one.
I personally have never come across a country which shuts down Twitter or YouTube or Google or Facebook or any society-critical sites other than a Muslim majority country.
If your experiences are different, please inform me, if I am wrong, please correct me.
I personally have never come across a forum or board which is more heavily censored than this one.
you being here and spout whatever fancies your fantasy certainly contradict your opinion above.
format_quote Originally Posted by StopS
I personally have never come across a country which shuts down Twitter or YouTube or Google or Facebook or any society-critical sites other than a Muslim majority country.
Actually, Google and Youtube censored themselves.
And have you not heard of china?
Like, the world's most populous nation?
You cannot even access twitter in China.
Meanwhile, Indonesia, the world's largest muslim nation, is among the most top active twittering per internet user.
And have you not heard how Google, Youtube, Facebook, took down any article/video/comment that is exposing the crimes of israeli government and/or denying holocaust?
format_quote Originally Posted by StopS
If your experiences are different, please inform me, if I am wrong, please correct me.
I've corrected every single ignorant opinion you wrote in your brief post.
we don't need to lower our standards to accommodate the riffraff .. every club/ institution/academic medium reserves the rights to set its own criteria of what is acceptable and of its rules & regulations. If you don't comply with them you get expelled 'free speech' or not. If you don't like it here then don't be a member here!
I personally have never come across a country which shuts down Twitter or YouTube or Google or Facebook or any society-critical sites other than a Muslim majority country.
If your experiences are different, please inform me, if I am wrong, please correct me.
There is a country called China. Look it up.
China didn't allow Google into the market for quite some time and they're still having problems with it. As a matter of fact, Google had to create a subsidiary known as Google China Inc. over there because of problems that they've had with hacking and censoring. The Google.ch address had to be redirected to a Hong Kong url because of these issues.
Baidu is actually the #1 search engine in China. Google is having a tough time infiltrating that market because of the restrictions that the Chinese government has placed on it and the censoring that takes place on internet searches with Google done from internet users in China.
you being here and spout whatever fancies your fantasy certainly contradict your opinion above.
Actually, no. I have had posts edited and deleted at whim. I am polite and try to be honest and correct. Yes, I makje mistakes, but I learn from them.
Actually, Google and Youtube censored themselves.
And have you not heard of china?
Like, the world's most populous nation?
You cannot even access twitter in China.
Meanwhile, Indonesia, the world's largest muslim nation, is among the most top active twittering per internet user.
And have you not heard how Google, Youtube, Facebook, took down any article/video/comment that is exposing the crimes of israeli government and/or denying holocaust?
Ooops, I forgot to specify: "free country". Yes, that was my mistake.
Well, if you would ask instead of displaying an arrogant stance I would have explained that free speech has limits. And denying the holocaust or any genocide is way above the limit. It has nothing to do with censorship. Deleting one of posts because "There are a number of things which aren't correct in the post." is not exactly informative and useful to learn something.
But it is true, it looks as though people here are too aggressive for me to learn anything. But I suppose I will be told it is all my fault because that's what people do: look for faults in others.
I've corrected every single ignorant opinion you wrote in your brief post.
Hahaha, you wish.... Oh and are you sure you know what ignorant means?
Actually, no. I have had posts edited and deleted at whim. I am polite and try to be honest and correct. Yes, I makje mistakes, but I learn from them.
Actually yes!
You're neither polite, nor honest. If you had posts edited then refer to FAQ to see what rules you've broken and generally try to familiarize yourself with those before joining any institution!
format_quote Originally Posted by StopS
Ooops, I forgot to specify: "free country". Yes, that was my mistake.
Define 'free'
format_quote Originally Posted by StopS
Well, if you would ask instead of displaying an arrogant stance I would have explained that free speech has limits. And denying the holocaust or any genocide is way above the limit. It has nothing to do with censorship. Deleting one of posts because "There are a number of things which aren't correct in the post." is not exactly informative and useful to learn something.
You constantly contradict yourself.
You can't speak of freedom, in the same breath caps on said freedom and in the same breath accuse others of wanting to limit that freedom. You need some courses in logic amongst other things!
format_quote Originally Posted by StopS
But it is true, it looks as though people here are too aggressive for me to learn anything. But I suppose I will be told it is all my fault because that's what people do: look for faults in others.
You're not here to learn.
format_quote Originally Posted by StopS
Hahaha, you wish.... Oh and are you sure you know what ignorant means?
hahahaha.. do you know how to spell?
format_quote Originally Posted by StopS
I makje mistakes
if you're going to haha.. at least make sure what you spew is immaculate!
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Why do you pose a Q is you already have the answer? Not allowing us much room for free speech here either are you?format_quote Originally Posted by Sweetshot
Haya emaan, ~Raindrop~, Abu Zainab, Ramadhan, Insaanah, tw009, Aprender, ~Zaria~, Abu.Yusuf, ba51th, hur575 liked this post
if we buy what they are selling, we're more lost than Gulliver...
Except every nation has its own values which they respect, no-one should insult them. That's mere insult, not freedom of speech.
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