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Burn in hell...?

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    Burn in hell...? (OP)


    I am a convert, and I have been thinking about something for a while.I have a rand and want to get this off my chest. what I am thinking about is HELL. This is a touchy subject for me because as I want to be a good muslim, I also have non muslim families. I will start by saying MY FAMILY DOES NOT DESERVE TO BURN IN HELL! I mean I am a muslim and I'm doing my best to worship allah, but I also have family and friends, and I just can not imagine the horror of them burning in hell for eternity! If someone is born misled it is not their fault! It is not fair, what if someone has never heard of Islam!!! As a matter of fact I think nobody deserves to go to hell unless they really hate allah and refuse to follow the path even if they see it. And I do not think anyone should be tormented for ETERNITY!
    Heaven is not heaven without family, I'm sorry but this thought has really been getting to me. I lose sleep thinking about this!

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    Re: Burn in hell...?

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    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    I appreciate your response. I know you mean well, but I certainly did not intend to say something which is merely of my opinion. I don't think you have read those Ahadith carefully enough because there are two lengthy versions, and one goes further than the other in saying that people will be interceded for. It goes so far as to say that Allah would take out those who did NO good before. When the Holy Prophet (saw) intercedes and his intercession is accepted, after around four times, then everyone will be taken out of Hell who could come out, and the rest are imprisoned forever.
    I think the sister made a good point in pointing out that it isn't right to use our own understanding of what is "merciful" and "just" to judge whether what our Creator does is "merciful" and "just". Like all differences of opinion at the end of the day we say "Allahu alam"/ God knows best meaning we are aware of our own fallibility.

    I liken the logic to those who use "The Big Bang" as proof for the Quran, it is using the scientists' understanding of how the universe started. What if it then turns out that the scientists changed their minds and that maybe it wasnt a "Big bang" after all? Does that invalidate the truth of the Quran? Of course not.

    Similarly with the issue of eternity, if indeed eternity means eternity then does that mean that Allah is not Most Merciful and Most Just? He is Most Merciful and Most Just regardless of our understanding of what it means. Allahu alam.
    Last edited by Hulk; 04-23-2013 at 06:54 PM.
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    Insaanah's Avatar Super Moderator
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    Re: Burn in hell...?



    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    It goes so far as to say that Allah would take out those who did NO good before.
    After all of this, there will remain people who did no good at all in this life. This is mentioned after the intercession of everyone else. Those are the people Allah will bring up with His Hand.
    Yes, but this refers to those who believe.

    The Qur'an says, on numerous occasions, "Innallatheena aamanoo wa 3amilu as-Saalihaat.." Indeed those who believe and do good deeds. Doing good deeds is separate to belief, but something that should go along with belief. However, it is possible to believe, having done, for whatever reason, no good deeds. We cannot extrapolate by saying the person who has no good deeds must be a disbeliever, because he has no good deeds to his name.

    The first hadeeth you quoted in no way says that disbelievers will be taken out of hell, or that those being interceded for in the groups are disbelievers.

    The second hadeeth also, makes no mention or even inference that disbelievers will be taken out of hell and will enter paradise. There are a few versions of this hadeeth, none of which states or infers that non-believers will be taken out of hell, but many of which clearly state that those with even the tiniest amount of imaan will eventually be removed.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    So then do you think the Hand of Allah would only take out a partial portion of the people of Hell? No.
    It is not about what we think.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    As for the verses of the Qur'an which say that the stay in Hell is for "khalideena" or "abadan". These terms have two meanings, one is that of a very long time and the other is that of eternity. Consider this then, would Allah ever mean only one meaning for these verses, or both of them? The answer is both. Allah does not misuse words anywhere in the Holy Qur'an. Every word is used for a reason.
    In the Qur'an there sometimes come two consecutive verses, such as (2:81-82), one talking about inhabitants of heaven and one talking about inhabitants of hell, using the same Arabic words, which state that they will dwell eternally therein, in heaven/hell. Is it the case that when talking about heaven, the meaning is literally eternal, but when talking about hell in the next ayah, the same word means something different, i.e. not eternal, but instead for a very long time? This is, I'm afraid to say, taking meanings and interpretations which go against the clear meaning, and taking one meaning in one place and giving it a different meaning in the same context in the next ayah, simply because it's talking about hell, to fit one's own interpretation, and personal beliefs. One of the hadeeth says in the strongest of Arabic words, using the words in their emphatic form, and three times, khaalideena mukhalladan abadan, meaning forever and ever, with the strongest of emphasis. http://www.sunnah.com/muslim/1#206

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    Can a sin be considered infinitely bad? That is what you have to ask yourself.
    Allah has said He is just, and that is enough.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    But, when you see what the Qur'an says, it makes sense that Hell is not forever since you cannot possibly say that everyone will be judged according to their sins, and then be left in Hell forever.
    What makes sense is what Allah and His prophet have said, not what makes sense to us personally.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    Why else would Allah even use the concept of a scale in the first place? Also, why would the Holy Prophet (saw) even suggest something contrary to the Holy Qur'an, such as these exact same people having Allah's intercession?
    They're not the same people. As the hadeeth mentions, they are believers.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    I don't think I know you and many others have this wrong, I know it.
    I hope you have read the hadeeth and all the information in the links provided.
    Last edited by Insaanah; 04-23-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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    Burn in hell...?


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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    The fact remains that the sister used her opinions as well. It isn't right to say I used my opinion when she did as well. I am perfectly aware of my own fallibility.

    But the fact remains that the words "abadan" and "khalideena" do not only mean eternity, but they also mean a very long period of time. It is not my own opinion that these words mean these things, and it is not my opinion that when Allah uses certain words in the Qur'an, He uses them intending all of the range of meanings they have to offer. This is common knowledge. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

    I agree with you that only Allah knows the true meanings of these words, as with everything. I would probably accept an explanation of what it might mean about Allah's taking out a Handful of people from Hell. Mind you, this is Allah's Handful, not our normal concept of handful. If you find an explanation of this which says that the Handful is only the believers, maybe then I will reconsider. However, the Ahadith are better at explaining than anyone else is.
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    I am not using my own opinions here. Verse 78:23 mentions Hell being for a very long time. The plural of Huqb (Ahqab) is used, and that one Huqb is eighty years. This just means a very long period of time. We do not know exactly how long this is, but we know that it is a period of time.

    I'm just saying. It doesn't seem so sound to me that Hell is forever for anyone. There are too many doubts in the idea that Hell is forever. Allah knows best.

    I will look into this even more in the future. I don't trust islamqa.com though. i would rather read more into what the classical commentators and other scholars have said rather than rely on a website.
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    Assalaamu Alikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh

    First of all, lets know the meaning of Kuffr:

    Definition of kufr:

    Kufr in Arabic means covering and concealing something.

    In shar’i terminology it means “not believing in Allaah and His Messenger, whether that is accompanied by denial or it is not accompanied by denial but rather doubt, or turning away from faith out of jealousy or arrogance, or because one is following whims and desires that prevent one from following the message. So kufr is the attribute of everyone who rejects something that Allaah has commanded us to believe in, after news of that has reached him, whether he rejects it in his heart without uttering it, or he speaks those words of rejection without believing it in his heart, or he does both; or he does an action which is described in the texts as putting one beyond the pale of faith.” See Majmoo’ al-Fataawa by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, 12/335; al-Ihkaam fi Usool al-Ahkaam by Ibn Hazam, 1/45.

    Ibn Hazam said in his book al-Fasl: “Rejecting something for which there is sound proof that there can be no faith without believing in it is kufr, and uttering words for which there is proof that uttering them is kufr is kufr. Doing any action for which there is proof that it is kufr is also kufr.”

    http://islamqa.info/en/ref/21249

    Second: it is not for anybody to affirm hellfire to others cause we all don't know if the proof of Islam has been established against them nor they have received the message of Islam clearly to believe in it or not. All this is with Allah alone...and we are not in a position to open doors of hellfire to whom we think that they are deserving...it is in Allah's hand and that's it.

    The type of disbelievers:

    First: those the message of Islam have reached them correctly; have believed in it and known that it is the truth from Allah still they rejected it out of arrogance as Allah says:

    "And they denied them, though their souls acknowledged them, for spite and arrogance. Then see the nature of the consequence for the wrong-doers! (14)"

    Surat Annamil

    Such people are for sure the fuel of Hellfire; they have known the truth still rejected it and from them are: Abu Jahl and Abu Lahab.

    Second: the people who have never known Islam nor heard about it for whatever reason (deaf, blind, crazy, living away from civilization such as some african tribes living in far flung areas) and also from them the people of Fatrah whom you can read about them in the link I will provide later In shaa Allah.

    Third: the people who have heard about Islam but the message of Islam has reached them distorted and unclear; for some reasons:

    * the one who called them to Islam wasn't competent enough for the lack of knowledge he has or for his way of conveying the message of Islam.
    * for hearing about Islam from those who are against it such as: hearing it from the haters media or militants of other religions.

    or whatever reason.

    First group are in hellfire and there is no doubt about it.

    Second and Third groups; they will be tested on the Day of Resurrection. Whoever obeys the command of Allah will be saved and whoever disobeys Him will be doomed. Their matter is in Allah's hand.

    read here:

    http://islamqa.info/en/ref/98714

    Allah Is The Most Just and we are not to talk about His Deen just like that whether we are students of knowledge or not...such matters need patient and reseaches and it is not enough to take one word or two from the mouth of Ulama and think that we are now from the people of knowledge nor put new rulings according our understanding for the verses of Allah's book and the ahaadeeth of His messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

    We will be asked about the message of Islam in the Day of Judgement, if we know the truth and have seen others struggling in this dunya from their ignorance but we have done nothing to help them to take them by hand and show them the way of Allah then we have been undutiful to Allah in conveying His message of truth.

    I say this and I see me not better than anyone of you and if I would think that I am better than you in anyway then I am not even equal to what sticks under the shoe of anyone of you from dirt and Allah knows about us and about what is inside of the heart of every single creature.

    May Allah make us deserve being His slaves and servants; guide us and help us to worship Him right alone Ameeen

    And at the end; it is not the blindness of eyes but the blindness of heart which will cause us the great loss. Laa ilaha illa Allah.

    And Allah knows the best.
    Burn in hell...?

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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    Assalamu Alaikum

    Something we can learn directly coming from Seerah of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH)

    ﴿إِنَّكَ لاَ تَهْدِى مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَـكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِى مَن يَشَآءُ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ ﴾


    (Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided.) meaning: Allah knows best who deserves to be guided and who deserves to be misguided. It was recorded in the Two Sahihs that this Ayah was revealed concerning Abu Talib, the paternal uncle of the Messenger of Allah . He used to protect the Prophet, support him and stand by him. He loved the Prophet dearly, but this love was a natural love, i.e., born of kinship, not a love that was born of the fact that he was the Messenger of Allah . When he was on his deathbed, the Messenger of Allah called him to Faith and to enter Islam, but the decree overtook him and he remained a follower of disbelief, and Allah's is the complete wisdom. Az-Zuhri said: "Sa`id bin Al-Musayyib narrated to me that his father, Al-Musayyib bin Hazan Al-Makhzumi, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "When Abu Talib was dying, the Messenger of Allah came to him and found Abu Jahl bin Hisham and `Abdullah bin Abi Umayyah bin Al-Mughirah with him. The Messenger of Allah said:

    «يَا عَمِّ قُلْ: لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللهُ، كَلِمَةً أُحَاجُّ لَكَ بِهَا عِنْدَ الله»
    (O my uncle, say La ilaha illallah, a word which I may use as evidence in your favor before Allah ﴿in the Hereafter﴾.) Abu Jahl bin Hisham and `Abdullah bin Abi Umayyah said: `O Abu Talib, will you leave the religion of `Abdul-Muttalib' The Messenger of Allah kept urging him to say La ilaha illallah, and they kept saying, `Will you leave the religion of `Abdul-Muttalib' -- until, at the very end, he said that he was on the religion of `Abdul-Muttalib, and he refused to say La ilaha illallah. The Messenger of Allah said:


    «وَاللهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ مَا لَمْ أُنْهَ عَنْك»
    (By Allah, I shall certainly seek forgiveness for you unless I am told not to.)

    Then Allah revealed:

    ﴿مَا كَانَ لِلنَّبِىِّ وَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ أَن يَسْتَغْفِرُواْ لِلْمُشْرِكِينَ وَلَوْ كَانُواْ أُوْلِى قُرْبَى﴾
    (It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allah's forgiveness for the idolators, even though they be of kin) (9:113).

    And there was revealed concerning Abu Talib the Ayah,

    ﴿إِنَّكَ لاَ تَهْدِى مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَـكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِى مَن يَشَآءُ﴾
    (Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills.)'' This was recorded (by Al-Bukhari and Muslim) from the Hadith of Az-Zuhri.

    Source
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    well thats exactly the point, i draw comparisons from what i read to the nation of islam's belief and interpretation of god.
    If I read you correctly, are you from the Nation of Islam? If so, then that is very interesting.

    But, did you seriously think that I was putting something from my own mind above what God Himself has said? I hope not. Anyways, I posted somewhere on here that I am going to go and research more on the issue of Hell. I saw verses during the research on this discussion which didn't make complete sense to me. I found that there are multiple meanings for certain words. I might have to try peering into every verse and Ahadith on this subject I can before I think I finally understand it. I saw people saying things in which they said the majority of scholars understood Hell to be eternal. I found that some of them said the contrary regarding some verses. Thus, since I figured some words in their Tafsirs might mean something else and were translated one way, then perhaps the translators thought of it as something else.

    But, considering this was a confusing line of thought, I realized I might need to confirm what more scholars say on this subject. I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I don't agree with websites like islamqa.com and others from recent scholars. I would rather read what the classical scholars and other later scholars during the centuries said on this topic, or on any other before I consider what the modern scholars say more seriously. I just find that the older texts make things more clear. They have a way about them.

    Again, I repeat, anyone who decided to start thinking I am a Kafir for thinking what I think, stop. I am going back to research even more on this. I don't claim to be a scholar, but I do claim that I can read what other scholars say and accept what they say without accepting the judgment of more recent scholars. I am signing out of this discussion. If everyone else here thinks Hell is eternal and there is no more to discuss, then I say the moderators should decide if this thread should be closed or not.

    Wassalaam alaikum. Peace be with those who seek the truth....
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    You did bring up a good case in point. Abu Talib did not recite La ilaha illallah before he died. But, the Holy Prophet (saw) said that if he could intercede on his behalf on the Day of Judgment, then he could probably ask Allah to lighten his punishment so that the fire only burns up to his ankles so that his brain boils. This isn't exactly what was said, but it is more or less what was said. So I see your point in how this plays out to the intercession on the Day of Judgment. I'm going to look more into all of this.
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    If I read you correctly, are you from the Nation of Islam? If so, then that is very interesting.

    But, did you seriously think that I was putting something from my own mind above what God Himself has said? I hope not. Anyways, I posted somewhere on here that I am going to go and research more on the issue of Hell. I saw verses during the research on this discussion which didn't make complete sense to me. I found that there are multiple meanings for certain words. I might have to try peering into every verse and Ahadith on this subject I can before I think I finally understand it. I saw people saying things in which they said the majority of scholars understood Hell to be eternal. I found that some of them said the contrary regarding some verses. Thus, since I figured some words in their Tafsirs might mean something else and were translated one way, then perhaps the translators thought of it as something else.

    But, considering this was a confusing line of thought, I realized I might need to confirm what more scholars say on this subject. I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I don't agree with websites like islamqa.com and others from recent scholars. I would rather read what the classical scholars and other later scholars during the centuries said on this topic, or on any other before I consider what the modern scholars say more seriously. I just find that the older texts make things more clear. They have a way about them.

    Again, I repeat, anyone who decided to start thinking I am a Kafir for thinking what I think, stop. I am going back to research even more on this. I don't claim to be a scholar, but I do claim that I can read what other scholars say and accept what they say without accepting the judgment of more recent scholars. I am signing out of this discussion. If everyone else here thinks Hell is eternal and there is no more to discuss, then I say the moderators should decide if this thread should be closed or not.

    Wassalaam alaikum. Peace be with those who seek the truth....
    i am not of the nation of islam, i have not met any people that say they are.. although i would not know unless they specifically said.
    i just know the little the media tells me.

    im not even very knowledgeable.

    i have an idea of the worldly hell we impose upon ourselves and thats usually what im on about.

    ..the eternal hell i have no idea about.


    i do retract my statements and i do realise that the difference between guidance and misguidance is only with allah swt.
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    i am not of the nation of islam
    Oh okay. That would have been interesting though if you were. I never actually meet anyone from that group, so that was why I was interested.

    Jazakallah for retracting your statement. May Allah reward you for being humble.
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Student1996 View Post
    . I lose sleep thinking about this!
    I have heard of people accepting Islam and eventually their entire families accepting Islam. Make lots of dua for their guidance especially during the last third of the night , inshaAllah they will accept Islam.

    The Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “The Lord descends every night to the lowest heaven when one-third of the night remains and says: ‘Who will call upon Me, that I may answer Him? Who will ask of Me, that I may give him? Who will seek My forgiveness, that I may forgive him?’”

    [Sahih Al-Bukhari and Muslim]
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    This is one of the eternal questions, in my mind, as I myself went through years of despair for my 'best friend' in school many years ago. I had just come out of religious class where I was told that all non believers will be the fuel for the fire of hell. There was my best friend talking, all I could see was his mouth moving but I could not hear the words he was saying as I was too preoccupied with his final destination..

    With that, I began questioning everything. Is this fair? is that fair? what if this? What if that? And then someone threw me a question, 'can God create a rock so big that he cannot carry?' Either way the answer will prove that he is not Al Mighty. Then I realise that I will probably not know the answer to many things, only Allah knows best. We can create a situation for ourselves to be doubtful and perhaps give us reasons to stray. Allah only knows how much of this is going round to create doubts in our mind.

    At the end of the day, I also realise, where we end up is entirely of our own input. We reap what we sow. We cannot let ourselves be effected by what appears to be the destiny of others. We can appeal to Allah to show them the right path. That's as little we as we can do. But then again, Allah is the Most Merciful, only we don't know the limitlessness of it. In our limited knowledge and understanding, it is easy to err with regards to how 'Maalikiyaw middiin' will rule that day. Don't question it to the point of distraction, but be thankful that we are given the guidance and constantly ask for reinforcement of our belief. In syaa Allah.
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  17. #33
    Jalal~'s Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman View Post
    I read that on the final day , many people will claim that they would have followed Islam if they knew about it . Then Allah will order them to jump in to the fire . Those who will obey Him will be forgiven and will enter paradise.

    Those who won't listen to Allah will be thrown to hell forever .

    hopefully if ur family members don't accept Islam in this world , they will be lucky enough to listen to Allah on the final day .

    It's better not to say who deserves hell and who deserves paradise . Only Allah with His perfect knowledge and wisdom knows about it .

    And Allah Knows Best.
    I thought that after you die, there is nothing you can do to change your fate? Our actions from the first life determine the outcome for the second, so how can doing something in the second life improve your chances of getting into Paradise?
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  18. #34
    Student1996's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill View Post
    This is one of the eternal questions, in my mind, as I myself went through years of despair for my 'best friend' in school many years ago. I had just come out of religious class where I was told that all non believers will be the fuel for the fire of hell. There was my best friend talking, all I could see was his mouth moving but I could not hear the words he was saying as I was too preoccupied with his final destination..

    With that, I began questioning everything. Is this fair? is that fair? what if this? What if that? And then someone threw me a question, 'can God create a rock so big that he cannot carry?' Either way the answer will prove that he is not Al Mighty. Then I realise that I will probably not know the answer to many things, only Allah knows best. We can create a situation for ourselves to be doubtful and perhaps give us reasons to stray. Allah only knows how much of this is going round to create doubts in our mind.

    At the end of the day, I also realise, where we end up is entirely of our own input. We reap what we sow. We cannot let ourselves be effected by what appears to be the destiny of others. We can appeal to Allah to show them the right path. That's as little we as we can do. But then again, Allah is the Most Merciful, only we don't know the limitlessness of it. In our limited knowledge and understanding, it is easy to err with regards to how 'Maalikiyaw middiin' will rule that day. Don't question it to the point of distraction, but be thankful that we are given the guidance and constantly ask for reinforcement of our belief. In syaa Allah.
    Thank you that is very helpful.
    Burn in hell...?

    Excuse My bad grammar and spelling
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  20. #35
    Nur Student's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    "There is no contradiction between the existence and ghastly torments of Hell, and infinite mercy, true justice, and wisdom with its balance and absence of waste. Indeed, mercy, justice, and wisdom require its existence. For to punish a tyrant who tramples the rights of a thousand innocents and to kill a savage animal who tears to pieces a hundred cowed animals, is for the oppressed a thousandfold mercy within justice. While to pardon the tyrant and leave the savage beast free, is for hundreds of wretches a hundredfold pitilessness in place of that single act of misplaced mercy.

    Similarly, among those who will enter Hell is the absolute disbeliever. For through his disbelief and denial

    • he both transgresses the rights of the Divine Names,
    • and through denying the testimony of beings to those Names, he transgresses their rights,
    • and by denying the elevated duties of glorification of creatures before the Divine Names he violates their rights,
    • and through denying their being mirrors to and responding with worship to the manifestation of Divine dominicality, which is the purpose of the universe’s creation and a reason for its existence and continuance, he transgresses their rights in a way.
    His disbelief is therefore a crime and wrong of such vast proportions it may not be forgiven, and deserves the threat of the verse,

    God forgives not [the sin of] joining other gods with Him. (Qur'an 4:48)
    Not to cast him into Hell would comprise innumerable instances of mercilessness to innumerable claimants whose rights had been transgressed, in place of a single misplaced act of mercy. Just as those claimants demand the existence of Hell, so do Divine dignity and majesty, and tremendousness and perfection most certainly demand it.

    Since disbelief is aggression against innumerable rights, it is certainly an infinite crime and deserves infinite punishment. Human justice considers a sentence of fifteen years imprisonment (nearly eight million minutes) to be justice for a one minute’s murder, and conformable with general rights and interests. Therefore, since one instance of disbelief is the equivalent of a thousand murders, to suffer torments for nearly eight thousand million minutes for one minute’s absolute disbelief, is in conformity with that law of justice. A person who passes a year of his life in disbelief deserves punishment for close on two million million eight hundred eighty thousand million minutes, and manifests the meaning of the verse,

    They will dwell therein for ever. (Qur'an 93:8)"
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    Do not doubt Allah's Justice and Mercy. Remember, Allah is more merciful than all humans combined and He is more Just than everyone. Does He know better or do you?

    You will pain over your family, yes. And what you can do is pray for them and preach to them. Tell them about the painful eternal punishment of Hell. Read the last Surahs of the Quran, those in the last few Juz and recite their translation to your family. You should also read their commentary. Ibn Kathir commentary or Maududi's commentary are two good one's available in English. there are others too but I haven't read them so can't comment on them.
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  22. #37
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    People send themselves to Hell by their evil actions-as Allah has mentioned he "rewards them for the good or bad deeds". Allah did not wish for them to go to Hell, he did not create anyone to go to Hell, if he did he wouldn't be punishing them in the first place.

    -the fact that people go to Hell does not change the fact that Allah is Merciful

    -why should Allah undo what he has done?? Ie why should he take people out of existence because people became evil? He did not create people wrongly they made themselves wrongdoers, rejecting Allah is an awful thing and in this day people seem to trivialise it to nothing bad. Well it is after all the food, everything they have they reject Allah, which they only do for the life of this world, ie like going on holiday and people of course they don't want to hear about the Day of Judgement, as they wish to enjoy themselves-and they wish to spend the rest of the life and not just on holiday for the life of this world.

    -what do people think should happen to evil doers?? Hell is not a learning place its a place of punishment, Allah is Most Merciful, for him to send people there is for a very, very, very good reason, so the issue is that your trivialising people's sins.
    Burn in hell...?

    "Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth." Quran , Surah Baqarah 2:255
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    Re: Burn in hell...?

    Brother,
    Just remember care about yourself you have your own grave.So save yourself from the hell fire.Keep offering prayers for all your relatives, May Allah give him hadayah .ameen
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    Re: Unbelievers?

    3:25 How (will it be) when We gather them together on the Day about which there is no doubt (i.e. the Day of Resurrection). And each person will be paid in full what he has earned? And they will not be dealt with unjustly.

    There is no injustice in the treatment of anyone by Allah.

    As for being in Hell eternally, this discussion had raged on a couple of months ago. No one burns in Hell eternally. The Qur'an says that Allah puts people in there for Ahqab, (meaning many many ages, of thousands of years in length). Hell is a nursing mother, and a place in which people are paid for what they have done.

    I have seen some people explain that the affront to Allah by shirk is an infinite sin. It is unforgivable, but an infinite sin? That is a fabrication and I have never seen any scholar call any sin an infinitely bad sin. Can there be degrees of shirk? There is intentional and unintentional. I do not know if there are degrees, but one thing is for sure, Allah is not unjust. He punishes severely, but not indefinitely.
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    Re: Unbelievers?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmad H View Post
    No one burns in Hell eternally. The Qur'an says that Allah puts people in there for Ahqab, (meaning many many ages, of thousands of years in length). Hell is a nursing mother, and a place in which people are paid for what they have done.
    Brother Ahmad,

    I like many of your opinions, but in this particular issue, you are completely wrong. You interpret and thus deny so many clear verses of the Qur'an about the eternal dwelling of absolute disbelievers in the Hell (khalidina fiha abadan). I know it is a tough issue to understand, but why do you think Allah would repeatedly promise to do so in such a clear way?

    I like Ustaz Bediuzzaman's analogies and arguments in this issue:


    "If you were to ask: The sin of unbelief persists a short time but its punishment is eternal and unending; how is this conformable with divine justice? And if one does accept this, how is it consistent with pre-eternal wisdom? And if one accepts this even, how does dominical compassion permit it?

    You would be told: If one accepts that the penalty is infinite, it is established that unbelief perpetrated in finite time is in six respects a crime of infinite proportions:

    • Firstly: The person who dies an unbeliever will remain as such even if he lives to all eternity, for he has corrupted the very substance of his spirit. And his corrupted heart has the propensity to commit infinite crimes.
    • Secondly: Even if unbelief occurs in finite time, it is an infinite crime and gives the lie to infinity, I mean, it denies the whole universe, which testifies to divine unity.
    • Thirdly: Unbelief is ingratitude for infinite bounties.
    • Fourthly: Unbelief is a crime against infinity; that is, the divine essence and attributes.
    • Fifthly: As indicated by the Hadith: “The heavens and earth contain me not, yet I am contained in the heart of the believer,”(1) the human conscience is in regard to its outer face limited and finite, but by virtue of its reality the roots of its inner face spread and extend to eternity. In this respect therefore it is infinite. Unbelief however sullies it and it dwindles away.
    • Sixthly: Although opposites stubbornly resist each other, they are similar in many instances. Thus, on the one hand belief yields the fruits of the delights of Paradise, and on the other unbelief produces everlasting suffering and pain.It may be concluded therefore if one puts these six aspects together that infinite punishment fits the infinite crime and is pure justice.

    If you were to ask:
    So it is conformable with justice, but what about wisdom, which is exempt from creating evils that result in punishment?

    You would be told:
    As you have heard before, a greater good should not be abandoned due to the interspersion of lesser evil, for that would be a greater evil. This is because divine wisdom necessitates the existence of relative truths, which are far more numerous than actual truths; and their appearance is possible only through the existence of evil; and evil can be held within its limits and prevented from its aggression only through intimidation; and intimidation only truly affects the conscience if it can be verified and actualized by the existence of external torment; for like the intellect and imagination, the conscience is truly affected by intimidation only if it perceives from various indications the eternal, external reality of torment. It is pure wisdom therefore after filling people with fear at Hell-fire in this world, for it to exist in the next.

    If you were to ask:
    So it is consistent with divine wisdom also, but how does compassion permit it?

    You would be told:
    The unbelievers can be thought of only in terms of non-existence or existence in torment. If you think it over in your conscience you will understand that existence, even if in Hell, is a mercy and better than non-existence. For if you analyze it carefully you will see that non-existence is pure evil; indeed, non-existence is the source of all misfortunes and sins, whereas existence is pure good, even if in Hell.

    Furthermore, it is in the nature of man’s spirit, if it knows that the torment eliminates its crimes and sins, to be content with it, to alleviate the burden of shame. It will then acknowledge that the punishment is fair and that it deserves it. Out of its love of justice, it receives pleasure from it even. There are many honourable people in this world who long for the execution of justice on themselves so as to be saved from the shame of their crimes.

    As a result of their actions, the unbelievers go to Hell and abide there forever as their perpetual abode, but after some time paying the penalty for their actions they grow accustomed to it in a way, and adapt to it. Also, their punishments are reduced and mitigated in many ways in recompense for their good deeds in this world, as is indicated in some Hadiths."



    Dipnot-1 al-‘Ajlūnī, Kashf al-Khafā’, ii, 195. For details, see, Nursi, Ishārāt al-I‘jāz [Iḥ̣sān Qāsim], 86.


    Last edited by Nur Student; 11-28-2013 at 03:39 PM. Reason: spelling error: not 'that' but 'than'
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