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Muslim-Christian Dialogue

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    christianuk's Avatar Limited Member
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    Cool Muslim-Christian Dialogue

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    I am a born-again Christian of many years.

    It is obvious that Islam and Christianity contradict one another so both can't be true.

    I would like to explore this issue.


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    christianuk's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    So, while I find ALL the NT makes perfect sense
    Muslims claim the NT is corrupted.

    At the end of the day if a motor repair manual fixes your car every time who can say it is no good and must be rejected as wrong,
    then that doesn't make sense.

    I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in "other tongues" every day.

    Your comments?

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    YusufNoor's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    format_quote Originally Posted by christianuk View Post
    So, while I find ALL the NT makes perfect sense
    Muslims claim the NT is corrupted.

    At the end of the day if a motor repair manual fixes your car every time who can say it is no good and must be rejected as wrong,
    then that doesn't make sense.

    I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in "other tongues" every day.

    Your comments?
    the fact that you are delusional and feel that you speak in "tongues every day", just means that you should see a doctor. it has nothing to do with religion.

    it isn't just Muslims who say the NT is corrupted, it happens to be an established fact.

    if you have questions about Islam, perchance there are those willing to discuss them with you.

    if you are here to proselytize, you've come to the wrong place!
    | Likes Muhaba liked this post
    Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire
    http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html

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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    oh dear, paranoid delusional Christian comes to Islamic forum ... speaking of NT, not realising that book has many "versions" each fundamentally different in content
    ...rich claim from him. OP shoulda put way more though into that one lol.

    Speaking in tongues huh? Lalilulelololololol - what does that mean?

    Scimi
    Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    15noje9 1 - Muslim-Christian Dialogue

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    muslimah bird's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    So, while I find ALL the NT makes perfect senseMuslims claim the NT is corrupted.At the end of the day if a motor repair manual fixes your car every time who can say it is no good and must be rejected as wrong,then that doesn't make sense.I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in "other tongues" every day.Your comments?
    as bro yusuf noor said , proselytising isnt allowed in the forum. If you have questions regarding islam , feel free to ask

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    greenhill's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    The major one is the concept of God.

    What is your belief?

    Muslims believe in Allah as The God, the One and Only, the Supreme, the Judge the Eternal and the list goes on.... and Jesus, like Muhammad, Moses, Adam peace be to them all and the rest are prophets of Allah who had specific tasks to carry out.



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    christianuk's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    What are your qualifications?

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    christianuk's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    I am a christian.
    Born again in 1978
    Filled with the Holy Spirit roughly 18 months later.
    Blessed beyond what any non-Christian could/can imagine.
    Full of Life!

    Tell me this:

    Where are the sayings of Jesus that Islam accepts?
    After all, He (PBUH) is one of your prophets.

    Regards

    Neil

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    Insaanah's Avatar Super Moderator
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    format_quote Originally Posted by christianuk View Post
    Muslim-Christian Dialogue
    Believe it or not, there's a book with the very same name. Here it is, you should read it:

    http://www.sultan.org/books/muslimchristianialogue.pdf

    format_quote Originally Posted by christianuk View Post
    At the end of the day if a motor repair manual fixes your car every time who can say it is no good and must be rejected as wrong
    That is because you think it's fixed, but the major fault is still there. It is entirely possible to drive an unroadworthy car, thinking it's ok, or it's been fixed, but the major underlying problem hasn't gone away, and is a dangerous threat to the car.

    Your comments?
    Our comments, are to invite you to belief in one true God, with no associates whatsoever in His Exclusive Divinity, be that in the form of a son, or incarnations of God (something Christianity and Hinduism share in common), or in any other way. No sons, no 3-in-1's, Just purely One. Glorified and Exalted be He above all that is falsely attributed to Him.

    • There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, and Lord.
    • He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.
    • He is eternal and does not die, in any way.
    • He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.
    • There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.
    • He did not and does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.
    • He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, nor any intermediaries. And no denying of God's existence either.
    • There are no sharers, associates, persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense of the word One.


    Where are the sayings of Jesus that Islam accepts?
    In the translations of verses from the Qur'an below, I have highlighted the words of Jesus (peace be upon him) in red.

    And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): "Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers.

    And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

    Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.
    "

    But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: "Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah?" The disciples said: "We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him). Our Lord! We believe in that which Thou hast revealed and we follow him whom Thou hast sent. Enrol us among those who witness (to the truth)". (3:49-53)

    **********************************************

    And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): "Believe in Me and in My messenger", they said: "We believe. Bear witness that we are Muslims."

    When the disciples said: "O Jesus, son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven?" He said: "Fear Allah, if ye are true believers."

    (They said: ) "We wish to eat thereof, that we may satisfy our hearts and know that thou hast spoken truth to us, and that thereof we may be witnesses."

    Jesus, son of Mary, said: "O Allah, our Lord! Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us, for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers."

    Allah said: "Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieves afterwards from amongst you, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures."

    And when Allah will say: "O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?"

    He will say: "Be Glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then You knew it. You know what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Your Mind. Lo! You, only You, are the Knower of Things Hidden.

    I spoke unto them only that which You commanded me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when You took me, You were the Watcher over them. You are Witness over all things.

    If You punish them, lo! they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them (lo! they are Your slaves). Lo! you, only You, are the Mighty, the Wise."
    (5:111-118)

    **********************************************

    They surely disbelieve who say: "Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary." The Messiah (himself) said: "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Lo! whoso ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For the wrong-doers there will be no helpers. (5:72)

    **********************************************

    He spoke: "Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and has appointed me a Prophet, and has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, and (has made me) dutiful toward my mother, and has not made me arrogant, unblest. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"

    Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

    It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: Be! and it is.

    [Jesus said],: "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the right path."(19:30-36)

    **********************************************

    When Jesus came with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), he said: "I have come unto you with wisdom, and to make plain some of that concerning which ye differ. So fear Allah, and obey me. Lo! Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. This is a right path."
    But the factions among them differed. Then woe unto those who do wrong from the doom of a painful day. (43:63-65)

    **********************************************

    And when Jesus son of Mary said: "O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name is the Praised One - Ahmad." Yet when he has come unto them with clear proofs, they say: "This is mere magic." (61:6)

    **********************************************

    O ye who believe! Be Allah's helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: "Who are my helpers for Allah?" They said: "We are Allah's helpers." And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost. (61:14)

    End of quotes from Qur'an.

    Allah has sent a succession of prophets to people throughout the ages, to convey His message to them, and with guidance to show people how He wants them to live and worship Him. Muslims believe in all the prophets God sent, and do not reject or blaspheme any of them, from Adam, to the last and final prophet, Muhammad, peace be on them all. They were the purest and noblest of humanity and were not divine in any way. God sent all the prophets with the same message and not different messages. The message was: to submit wholeheartedly to God and worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Exclusive Divinity, and to obey the prophet. They taught that people should be under no misperception that they can commit themselves to God as their Lord, and then combine this with accepting others as their Lord, or associating others in His Divinity, in whatever way. They taught that we should strive hard to translate our belief in the One True God into practice, by obeying God and the messengers He sent, who were also role models and examples for us, showing us practically how to put the guidance they were sent with into practice in our daily lives, explaining the scriptures, warning against wrong-doing, giving good tidings, and giving additional legislation from God.

    So Islam is not a new faith but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them). Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, and the meaning loosely translates as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, all races and all peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.

    With time, the message got forgotten or corrupted. So people started worshipping other gods along with Him, made idols, said that God begot a son, said that certain people were incarnations of God, some rejected belief in God altogether, while others elevated the status of some prophets to divine, or at the other end rejected or blasphemed some of the prophets. Whenever God's message got distorted by people, or forgotten, a new messenger was sent, not with any new or changed message, but reinforcing the actual message that God sent all the messengers with, the actual core beliefs that people were taught from the beginning of humanity, confirming the true parts of previous teachings and scriptures, and correcting wrong beliefs and misconceptions that had crept in.

    God required that whenever He sent a new messenger, that messenger should be followed along with any new scripture given to him. This chain of messengers culminates in prophet Muhammad (peace on him), who is the last and final prophet and messenger. Since his prophethood, Gods message is available unchanged and unadulterated, for the entire world, until the end of time. He wasn't sent as prophet and messenger for a specific group of people and specific time (e.g. as Moses and Jesus were to the Children of Israel), but he was sent for all the world, for all time, until the Day of Judgement. Thus he is the last, not first, prophet of Islam; a messenger to all mankind, for now, and for all time to come.

    Muslims love and respect Jesus (peace be upon him) and believe in him as he was; one of the most noble and purest of humanity to ever walk the earth, and one of the greatest messengers of Allah, sent to the Children of Israel. We do not reject him (as Jews do), nor do we deify him (as Christians do). Neither he, nor any other messenger, ever claimed divinity, or to be God's son. We believe he was born miraculously of the noble virgin Mary (peace be on her), and that he is the messiah. We do not however, believe that he was crucified. He'll return to earth near the end of time.

    Peace.
    Last edited by Insaanah; 01-04-2014 at 09:21 PM. Reason: removed last part as response to deleted post
    | Likes جوري, Muhaba, Hulk, Scimitar, greenhill liked this post
    Muslim-Christian Dialogue


    Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa
    Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").


    This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)


    Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)

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    christianuk's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    Well that's a lot of work!
    And that's it?

    So you have confined the 4 Bible Gospels to the bin?

    Why do Muslims then comment on the "Comforter" as being Mohammed if it's not included your "scripture"?

    It doesn't make sense to me.

    Neil

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    Mango's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    You asked about 'Isa (Jesus), we gave you the verses of the Quran that talk about him. Mohammad is included in the Quran, but not in those verses because they are about 'Isa

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    dcalling's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    •There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, and Lord.
    Agreed
    format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    •He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.
    Quran did say that Allah can have a son.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    •He is eternal and does not die, in any way.
    Agree
    format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    •He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.
    Agree with first part, the second part is your own assertion. I think Quran talk about he want us to worship him.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    •There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.
    Here comes the joke I have with my christian friends when I was an athesit. If God is all powerful, can he kill himself? NO! So God is the most powerful, but not all powerful.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    •He did not and does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.
    Again, that is your own assertion. God is very powerful and he can do almost anything (aside from killing himself, or do unholly stuff).
    format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    •He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, nor any intermediaries. And no denying of God's existence either.
    I think Quran also talk about holy spirit. It is not Angle, not jinn, so what is it? God is so powerfull yet unknown, he can do many things we don't understand.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah View Post
    •There are no sharers, associates, persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense of the word One.
    Yet both the OT and Quran use "WE" when God speaks. I would say follow the rules of God and don't try to understand God totally.

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    Zafran's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    The only thing I can say is that this has been done many times before - Maybe looking at previous threads of "christian-Muslim dialogues" and seeing where they usually end might stop you from wasting your time. Most of what you say has been talked about before. This wont be a nice thread.

    bye.
    Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    format_quote Originally Posted by christianuk View Post
    Where are the sayings of Jesus that Islam accepts?
    Sis Insaanah listed some items ...

    format_quote Originally Posted by christianuk View Post
    And that's it?

    So you have confined the 4 Bible Gospels to the bin?
    We have confined nothing anywhere. You asked what the Qur'an says about Jesus and that is some of it (not all of it). Please look up the Qur'an and find it yourself. We are just saying that the OTs are not entirely accurate.


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    Muhaba's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    Your book (the Bible) is full of contradictions, inconsistencies, and vulgar statements that prove that it is not the uncorrupt Word of God and is therefore not reliable. The following is from Wikipedia:

    The study of inconsistencies in the Bible has a long history. In the 17th century, Spinoza considered the Bible to be, "...a book rich in contradictions."[38] In the 18th century, Thomas Paine in his Age of Reason compiled many of the Bible's self-contradictions. And in 1860, William Henry Burr produced a list of 144 self-contradictions in the Bible.

    Biblical Criticim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...y_of_the_Bible
    authors such as Raymond Brown have presented arguments that the Gospels actually contradict each other in various important respects and on various important details.[20] W. D. Davies and E. P. Sanders state that: "on many points, especially about Jesus’ early life, the evangelists were ignorant … they simply did not know, and, guided by rumour, hope or supposition, did the best they could".[21] More critical scholars see the nativity stories either as completely fictional accounts,[22] or at least constructed from traditions that predate the Gospels.[23][24]

    For example, many versions of the Bible specifically point out that the most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses did not include Mark 16:9-20, i.e., the Gospel of Mark originally ended at Mark 16:8, and additional verses were added a few hundred years later. This is known as the "Markan Appendix.

    Internal Consistency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Bible
    The average NT manuscript is about 200 pages, and in all, there are about 1.3 million pages of text. No two manuscripts are identical, except in the smallest fragments, and the many manuscripts which preserve New Testament texts differ among themselves in many respects, with some estimates of 200,000 to 300,000 differences among the various manuscripts.[20] According to Bart Ehrman:


    Most changes are careless errors that are easily recognized and corrected. Christian scribes often made mistakes simply because they were tired or inattentive or, sometimes, inept. Indeed, the single most common mistake in our manuscripts involves "orthography", significant for little more than showing that scribes in antiquity could spell no better than most of us can today. In addition, we have numerous manuscripts in which scribes have left out entire words, verses, or even pages of a book, presumably by accident. Sometimes scribes rearranged the words on the page, for example, by leaving out a word and then reinserting it later in the sentence.[21]

    Textual tradition of the New Testament

    Biblical inerrancy has been criticized on the grounds that many statements that are found in Scripture, if taken literally, rather than phenomenologically, are untenable or contradictory. Many (although not all) of these instances, involve the Bible's relationship with history or science. Inerrancy is argued to be a falsifiable proposition: if the Bible is found to contain any mistakes or contradictions, the proposition of strict inerrancy has been refuted.

    Criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inerrancy
    See also 1000 contradictions in the bible http://wardoons.wordpress.com/debate/

    So, the bible is full of contradictions and isn't reliable. There are clear errors in the bible. Can the book of God contain errors? If it does, then how do you know which part is correct and can be trusted and which is an error? How do you know that the doctrine of trinity is correct? How do you know anything in the bible is correct???

    Basing one's faith on such a book is clearly a terrible mistake.

  20. #16
    Muhaba's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    Here is a debate about inconsistencies in the Bible. http://www.debate.org/debates/The-Bi...butes-et-al/1/

  21. #17
    greenhill's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    format_quote Originally Posted by christianuk View Post
    Why do Muslims then comment on the "Comforter" as being Mohammed if it's not included your "scripture"?
    The prophet is known by many names.

    "And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds." (21:107)

    To give them glad tidings and show them the way to the rewards of the hereafter in a way that showed patience, fairness and humane.

  22. #18
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    Greetings and peace be with you christianuk; welcome to the forum from a Catholic,

    I have a great respect for the Muslims on this forum, they take prayer, fasting, modesty, charity and putting Allah first in all things. When I saw the title, I had hoped to see a thread that talked about, how we can get on together, despite our differences.

    When we use our scriptures to change ourselves, we struggle towards a greater good, when we bash other people on the head with our book, we seem to head for a greater conflict.

    Beyond a doubt, we are all created by the same God, we will be judged by the way we judge other people, somehow, there must be a path towards peace, despite our differences.

    In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding,

    Eric
    | Likes ardianto, greenhill, dcalling liked this post
    Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

  23. #19
    ardianto's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    There are many things in Christianity that make me so curious. Sometime I asked my Christian relatives or friends when I had a question, but I never want to intervene Christian belief.

    There are many differences between one religion and other religions. If we have a question about other religion we can ask directly to a believer in this religion, but we must ask with clean heart without intention to intervene other people belief.

    Of course, there are similarities too between one religion and other religions such as kindness to the other, obligation to help the needy people, etc. this is the area where we can build a dialogue and co-operation.


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    Re: Muslim-Christian Dialogue

    I will get back to you later.
    Thank you

    Neil


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