Islam means Submission to God, generally, yes? I know the word also has some roots with the word peace, as well (or so I have read).
I am not an adherent, but I am not not. I tend to be argumentative. I question. I dont easily accept another man as above me/of being subordinate. I play the game of life, and in that, I accept my role, but truly, I cannot, or don't seem to, accept Muhammad as closer to God than me.
Islam, submission to God. Why can only one 'cult' (I don't mean this derogatorily) claim this? How is this possible? All life and all things exist only because they adhere to God- to the way of things. We are all Muslim. Anything else is impossible.
Islam is very attractive to me... But certain things, I respectfully move on from. I will not stone a person who adultures. I will let the stone of... Reality... Decide. Of God. I don't quite know how to say it, but religion scares me. I do not trust other men. I have see order in chaos to such a degree that I have had to simply choose the right path, and though I can accept the good things that people of Islam hold good, I do not see it as any change from what came before, and I cannot put another man above me.
Anyways, I don't mean to rant. But what do you think? By the word itself, isn't everything already... Islam?
Do you know if the Quran repeats any stories from the Torah or New Testament?
Yes there are similarities. About the prophets. About worship etc. But if we have to ask, why so many Books? Because mankind needed to grow and become more 'mature'. As we learn we can reason things better. I have stated this in some other threads, the essence of the Psalms was to remind people of Allah. To guide people on worship and prayers. The Torah was also about worship and prayer but added a new dimension of to do unto others what you would expect others to do unto you, (hence a guide for human interaction). Once people can accept this, the Bible introduced a 'higher' value to self by giving the option to forgive (to turn the other cheek) which paved the way to end generational feuds, Once these messages were understood, the time was right for the Quran which essentially gave guidelines on how to live in a community. Hence taking care of orphans and marrying up to 4 wives (so as to ensure the community was strong and that no one was left behind to defend themselves).
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
surely the days of cutting hands off, stoning, lashing, behading, honour killings, should be left to the dark-ages.
Again, this law is to act as a deterrent. Hanging in my country for drug trafficking is draconian, but heck, if you flout the law knowingly that that IS the punishment, can you complain? Of course, then it is up to the panel sitting to decide on the punishment. It is their call. They can choose to be liberal or not.
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
Everything must be revised as this existence is not the Ultimate Truth or the path to Allah.
Personally, the way I see this is that pretty much everything we see in this world is an illusion and the illusion of the world (e.g. nice guys finish last) will make people behave unethically to gain an advantage and it will appear to be a justifiable act although the 'reality' is that it is not justifiable. How could we compute being good and getting nothing whilst being 'bad' gains. So should we revise our behavior or laws to allow us now to 'cheat'? To believe in the law, to strive to improve ourselves in context of the law, to be patient with whatever outcome and to strive towards pleasing the Al-Mighty, rather than to give up and find an easier path. That is not the guided way.
If I were to say I want to be a Christian, which denomination should I follow? All of them have been altered to suit those who wrote and rewrote the doctrine(s). At least in Islam, this liberty is NOT given to anyone. Only the interpretations and even that, it is left to the Ulamas. I think I prefer it this way.
Once Islam sees they too have been fooled by the Devil, we will be able to lift the veil that has been put over all of our eyes.
The devil will always strive to mislead us. The first weapon he will use against us is our false sense of pride. That we think we know better. That we think we are smarter than the words of Allah. That we think we can change it because we feel it dopes not make any sense or for whatever other reason(s). Then the devil has been successful in pulling the veil over our eyes to say that it is OK to change the laws.
format_quote Originally Posted by Optimal Unity
I am not saying the Qur'an is not beautiful, just that it is wrong to be fanatically self righteous that you see it as perfect.
This statement about feeling self righteous has 'pride' woven in its fabric. Allah is the Lord of the Universe/Multiverse, He claimed it to be perfected, and the muslims believe it. We did not conjure up this belief out of nowhere but merely upholding what Allah Himself has said in the Quran. So it is not self righteous as you would have it. It is a fact as commented by Allah Himself.
May you also find guidance...
Peace
As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.
The devil will always strive to mislead us. The first weapon he will use against us is our false sense of pride. That we think we know better. That we think we are smarter than the words of Allah. That we think we can change it because we feel it dopes not make any sense or for whatever other reason(s). Then the devil has been successful in pulling the veil over our eyes to say that it is OK to change the laws.
Are you insinuating I am working with the Devil, is that what you see, do you think it is that easy, be a robot and blindly follow something that has been provided by a immature civilisation, and if anyone calims to know better look at them as the Devil?
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
Yes there are similarities. About the prophets. About worship etc. But if we have to ask, why so many Books? Because mankind needed to grow and become more 'mature'. As we learn we can reason things better. I have stated this in some other threads, the essence of the Psalms was to remind people of Allah. To guide people on worship and prayers. The Torah was also about worship and prayer but added a new dimension of to do unto others what you would expect others to do unto you, (hence a guide for human interaction). Once people can accept this, the Bible introduced a 'higher' value to self by giving the option to forgive (to turn the other cheek) which paved the way to end generational feuds, Once these messages were understood, the time was right for the Quran which essentially gave guidelines on how to live in a community. Hence taking care of orphans and marrying up to 4 wives (so as to ensure the community was strong and that no one was left behind to defend themselves).
The fact that the Qur'an uses the Psalms and Torah in its writing is the proof that it is not perfect and must be revised, did not Muhammad (pbuh) say that the meaning of the Torah and the Psalms will be discovered in the end of times, the Torah and Psalms are works of double meaning and they have been taken literally by the deceived, they are not what they appear to be. Muhammad had a good reason to include them as his essence was to unify the tribes and so it must be included, it does not make them accurate or perfect words from Allah.
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
Again, this law is to act as a deterrent. Hanging in my country for drug trafficking is draconian, but heck, if you flout the law knowingly that that IS the punishment, can you complain? Of course, then it is up to the panel sitting to decide on the punishment. It is their call. They can choose to be liberal or not.
The fact you need a deterrent is the statement on how impure and corrupt the edict is, and what you do is seek Allah and seek to change that that is corrupt and clearly wrong.
format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill
This statement about feeling self righteous has 'pride' woven in its fabric. Allah is the Lord of the Universe/Multiverse, He claimed it to be perfected, and the muslims believe it. We did not conjure up this belief out of nowhere but merely upholding what Allah Himself has said in the Quran. So it is not self righteous as you would have it. It is a fact as commented by Allah Himself.
May you also find guidance...
Peace
I am accusing those that a robotic in their faith to be self-righteous, you really think there is a formula to be with Allah?
I am already guided, but thank you for your wishes, may it continue to fulfilment of prophesy.
Are you insinuating I am working with the Devil, is that what you see, do you think it is that easy, be a robot and blindly follow something that has been provided by a immature civilisation, and if anyone calims to know better look at them as the Devil?
There is no insinuation here. Just a general statement. Everybody has questions and in asking them does not in anyway imply that they are working with the devil. The fall of Satan is as a result of his pride. He felt he was better than humans to the point of rebelling against the command of Allah. Such a simple thing but severe in consequences. Hence, what I am saying is that could be our folly, meaning mine too! Pride is a common human characteristic so please do not take it as me having a 'go' at you. Just responding to your question.
On robotic faith, no it is not. It requires a 'higher' level of faith and 'intellect(?)'. Quran repeatedly mentions for us to use our 'reasoning skills' to 'see' the truth. 100% not robotic function but 100% human. Robots cannot reason.
There is no insinuation here. Just a general statement. Everybody has questions and in asking them does not in anyway imply that they are working with the devil. The fall of Satan is as a result of his pride. He felt he was better than humans to the point of rebelling against the command of Allah. Such a simple thing but severe in consequences. Hence, what I am saying is that could be our folly, meaning mine too! Pride is a common human characteristic so please do not take it as me having a 'go' at you. Just responding to your question.
On robotic faith, no it is not. It requires a 'higher' level of faith and 'intellect(?)'. Quran repeatedly mentions for us to use our 'reasoning skills' to 'see' the truth. 100% not robotic function but 100% human. Robots cannot reason.
Peace
Thank you, yes I am well aware of the Devil have had my own battle with it.
Would you be kind and show me some of the words in the Qur'an where it calls for utilising 'reasoning skills'?
These are some I looked up. There are plenty more but I haven't the time to search. There are other interesting related items too...
“Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their intellect.” (Quran; 8:22) "They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls. Their violence among themselves is severe. You think they are together, but their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a people who do not reason.' (59:14)
˜And these examples We present to the people, but none will understand them except those of knowledge.' (29:43) In addition, in few occasions, the Quran tells the believers, to ponder and learn from the Quran itself, Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.' (12:2)
The believers are also reminded to reflect upon the deceptions of Satan (shaytaan) that has led many astray, ˜And he had already led astray from among you much of creation, so did you not use reason?' (36:62).
Peace
As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.
These are some I looked up. There are plenty more but I haven't the time to search. There are other interesting related items too...
“Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their intellect.” (Quran; 8:22) "They will not fight you all except within fortified cities or from behind walls. Their violence among themselves is severe. You think they are together, but their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a people who do not reason.' (59:14)
˜And these examples We present to the people, but none will understand them except those of knowledge.' (29:43) In addition, in few occasions, the Quran tells the believers, to ponder and learn from the Quran itself, Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.' (12:2)
The believers are also reminded to reflect upon the deceptions of Satan (shaytaan) that has led many astray, ˜And he had already led astray from among you much of creation, so did you not use reason?' (36:62).
Peace
Thank you. Certainly wisdom can be read in those word, though I would not call any human a vile creature, no matter how dumb, blind or lacked intellect, I would also say that we no longer fight from behind walls or fortified cities, it does point to my indication that there is a requirement for an update. But that is the least of our worries, the Devil has worked his ways into the hearts of many, modifying a few words is not important in the comming battle the biggest issue for Islam is how to update the image of being a religion of violence.
It is a beautiful thing to submit to Allah in the name of Islam, but to create the violence that goes on today in Muslim countries, something is seriously wrong with Islam. I hope to be able to find out and help.
And peace with you. Thank you for your guidance...
Yes thank you for the correction, my misunderstanding of the meaning oh Hadith,
I mean the laws and instructions on what to do needs to be perfected and updated. Is there a name for them, is this the Sharia Laws?
Yes there are laws for the governing of our earthly life. Islamic Jurisprudence is quite complex and is based upon the Qur'an and Sunnah. While Islamic law is called Sharia, Sharia is much more complex than what the Media portrays.
For a basic understanding one needs to have some knowledge of the Madhabs. True Sharia entails the full following of one of the 4 Madhabs.
To give you a starting point here is a brief introduction to Madhabs. It actually would take a lifetime of study to fully be a master of just one Madhab.
Yes there are laws for the governing of our earthly life. Islamic Jurisprudence is quite complex and is based upon the Qur'an and Sunnah. While Islamic law is called Sharia, Sharia is much more complex than what the Media portrays.
For a basic understanding one needs to have some knowledge of the Madhabs. True Sharia entails the full following of one of the 4 Madhabs.
To give you a starting point here is a brief introduction to Madhabs. It actually would take a lifetime of study to fully be a master of just one Madhab.
Muslims have realized that to follow amadhhab means to follow a super scholar who not only had a comprehensive knowledge of the Qur'an and hadith texts relating to each issue he gave judgements on, but also lived in an age a millennium closer to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) and his Companions (sic)...
I am curious is there a clear record of where there has been addition to the Madhhab by amadhhab that is not a direct companion of Muhammad, did Shea and Sunni divide due to the following of different companions?
Thank you for your patience, my study method is under the guidance of Allah, reading all of the text or searching on Google slightly taints the path, your guidance is appreciated.
[/I][/I] I am curious is there a clear record of where there has been addition to the Madhhab by amadhhab that is not a direct companion of Muhammad, did Shea and Sunni divide due to the following of different companions?
Thank you for your patience, my study method is under the guidance of Allah, reading all of the text or searching on Google slightly taints the path, your guidance is appreciated.
LOL that appears to have been a typo in the text. I believe that should have been "A Madhhab" Madhhab is just one of the spellings of Madhab. As many Arabic letters have no English letters with the same sounds. People try to spell them phonetically a result being you get variations in the spellings. other examples you will find adhan also spelled athan. diker also spelled ziker. Allaah(swt) also spelled Allah(swt) those are just a few words you can not get the actual pronunciation by using English letters.
There are 4 Madhabs recognized by Sunni each is correct and the 4 are equal. A person is to follow one and only one, no picking just what you like from each. General the person will follow the Madhab the nation uses for it's laws.
There have been and are additional madhabs but they are considered to be recent innovations and not permissible.
The split between Shi'ite and Sunni came as a result as to who should be the successor to Muhammad(saws)
Yes u r right all creation obey Allah, it is we and jinn who had been granted free will by Allah.Allah in ch 67 v 2 of Quran says Allah created life and death to test us
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