Ephesians 1:3

format_quote Originally Posted by JakeTruthSeeker

are you a Revert, or born-Muslim, anyways, i was reading the main catholic apologetics site on The Trinity, one of the earliest testimonies about 225 CE, by Origen is one that also states that jesus was never crucified, so the catholic viewpoint is that jesus was crucified, but one of the earliest resources on their perspective is one that says the opposite.
catholic.com/tracts and trinity

born and raise Irish Roman Catholic! reverted in late March 2006.

the Qur'an says that Jesus was not crucified, but it was made to appear so. that's fine by me. i have no problem with that.

i thoroughly enjoy learning more and more about the history of Christianity. it is fascinating. knowing when stuff was actually written, allows you to see the changes and evolution of Christianity. there was quite a variety of people, calling themselves Christians. what Christians believe today, is not what they started with, and yet they claim the opposite and use it as a proof that their religion is true. but it's not true. I have Bart Ehrman's 2nd to last book. it is amazing. he studies the texts, by age. then, he can not only show you the changes, as the years go on, but he also shows why those changes were made. the "letters" that aren't really paul, were written to refute various beliefs, that the writer saw as improper.

let me apologize, i am packing and moving, early in the morning. i may miss a question. i'll be on the road for a few days. i'll check in, when i can, in shaa Allah.

May Allah guide you and all of us and may He make it easy on you and us as well!

peace!

Assalaamu alaikum JakeTruthSeeker,

I have been reading your dialogue. I'm glad you found your way to this Forum. Though YusufNoor will be busy, don't feel shy to ask any questions you may have. Or to browse the many threads archived.

May God Bless and Guide you, that you find what you seek.

format_quote Originally Posted by JakeTruthSeeker

may allah bless you on your travels, InshaAllah

peace.

JazakAllah Khayr! (may Allah reward you with goodness!)

thanks Jake. still got some work to do, but i'll be on the road tomorrow. in shaa Allah!

format_quote Originally Posted by JakeTruthSeeker

see thats the thing, thats why i'm discovering Islam, because there are a lot of discrepancies in catholicism, i have looked into the constantiopole aspect, i found out recently the vatican wasnt built until the 1500s, before then they were near constantine, coincidentally, they moved to the vatican, only about 30-40 years after the great schism, and after the 3 popes scandal.

hey Jake!

had a few snags, leaving tomorrow, in shaa allah.

this history of Catholicism is not what we are told. not necessarily a lie, straight out. if you get the readers digest version of the readers digest version, a lot of stuff gets left out.

the pope was never THE pope. the bishops running the largest cees, were called Papa, Pope. so, at the time of Nicea, there was a pope in Rome, 1 in Antioch and one in Alexandria. if you pay attention, you'll notice the "pope" of Rome, was NOT at Nicaea, they couldn't even speak Greek! in New Rome, what we call Constantinople, the Bishop was later called Patriarch. it was considered equal to Rome.

after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the Bishop of Rome began to assert his authority of the population, as there was no emperor. the fought for and got recognized as the leader of the Western Church. later, The Bishop of Rome and the Patriarch of Constantinople, excommunicated each other. they have been separate since. The church at Antioch had a problem with Mary being recognized as the "mother" of god, and got themselves excommunicated. they relocated to parts of Asia. Alexandria got tired of decisions made by Rome and Constantinople and left the "church".

you should check the histories of the popes in the late dark ages. totally disgusting. one of the reasons that people started translating the Bible and forming their own churches was the corruption of the priests and bishops. they were curious about the "bread and wine". they weren't saying that it couldn't be done. they were saying that their local clergy was so corrupt, that "they" couldn't do it. in fact, the Pope issued an edict in the 1600s saying that, no matter the priest, or his reputation, the wine and bread works!

but you see, universities were founded by Franciscan and Jesuit monks. they taught that Rome is, was, and always has been the "leader" of the church. which simply is not true. not by any historical record. they became the leader of the Western church, but that took hundreds of years and breaking with all of the other churches, for that to happen.

Salam Jake,

let us know when we can start calling you Ya'Qub!

as a revert, but also as one who found scripture fascinating for years, i am constantly having to research things, but Allah really helps me along.

i challenge Christians to find stuff in the OT, that they agree prophesies Christianity. well, the Jews just don't think that possible. BUT, did you know that some Jewish scholars, whole-heartedly agree that the promises made to Hagar are about Islam?

i lost my notes, my books are packed, but i found an old post of mine. in part, we read:

as i have written consistently, and everyone seems to miss, some Jews ABSOLUTELY consider Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, to be a legitimate prophet; just NOT for the Jews! the following are note from Mesorah Publishing's Stone Chumash and their Art Scroll Series 2 part Bereishsis/Genesis:

In chapter 17, Chumash, God is speaking to Abraham about their covenant and promising a son through Sarah, Abraham interrupts God:
v18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before You!” God said, “Nonetheless, your wife Sarah will bear you a son and you shall call his name Isaac…v 20 But regarding Ishmael I have heard you; I have blessed him, will make him fruitful, and will increase him most exceedingly; he will beget twelve princes and I will make him into a great nation…”

Part of the notes for this verse read: “We see from the prophecy in this verse, that 2337 years elapsed before the Arabs, Ishmael’s descendants, became a great nation [with the rise of Islam in the 7th Century C.E.]…Throughout this period, Ishmael hoped anxiously, until the promise was fulfilled and they dominated the world. We the descendants of Isaac, for whom the fulfillment of the promises made to us is delayed due to our sins…should surely anticipate the fulfillment of God’s promises and not despair” (R’ Bachya citing R’ Chananel).

Bereishsis/ Genesis adds: R’ Bachya cites R’ Chananel’s comment on this verse: We see from this prophecy [in the year 2047 from Creation, when Abraham was ninety-nine], 2337 years elapsed before the Arabs, Ishmael’s descendants, became a great nation. [This would correspond to 624 C.E, two years after the H(ijra)!…]

and if you are going to read the Torah, there's only 1 that you should read. tons of research went into it and it's quite interesting. it actually changed my life. i began a serious hunt for the "church" that Jesus started. almost by accident, i read a book on Islam, and found enough proof that it was the original message, even though it was a very liberal book, that i took shahadah a few days after finishing it.

here is that Torah:

http://www.artscroll.com/Books/9780899060149.html

and here's the 2 volume Bereishis / Genesis

http://www.artscroll.com/Books/9780899063621.html

so BOTH of those books say that Islam is prophesied in the Torah!

if you want to see an eye opening speaker, listen to this lecture by Mufti Ismael Menk of Zimbabwe. he's one of my favorite speakers:

format_quote Originally Posted by JakeTruthSeeker

last night, i believe Allah (SWT) performed a Miracle on me, i was having this unbearable tooth ache on 3 teeth, later and i read some quran verses before going to bed, and i prayed to allah to guide me on the right path, and i fell absolutely nothing within an hour, and afterwards i felt very calmed and had inner salam, and now i still feel inner salam, like i'm loved and Happy.

i think of my spiritual path as a Vine, when i first posted i was a Insolent seed that didnt know much, now i'm growing more.

the more you learn, the more you will see the beauty and truth of Islam, in shaa Allah!

watch Mufti Menk. i often think, that if i heard him before i became a Muslim, i would have reverted after hearing him. he is such a beautiful speaker!

time to hit the road...Jake!

i hope and pray you are Ya'Qub, before i get to Albuquerque! in shaa Allah!

Hey Jake, or can we call you Ya'Qub yet?

Alhamdulillah, my travels are finished and my internet is finally hooked up.

my heart has not yet accustomed itself to living this far above sea level. but if you have any questions or anything you would like to discuss, i'll try to check in, in the mornings, in shaa Allah.

ma salama