Stoning someone is from Jewish laws. Why do some do it?

No wonder the Jewish population was so low with all that stoning each other to death. Luckily Christianity and Islam came along and were much more merciful. Why don't the Jews do the stoning today?

format_quote Originally Posted by Karl

No wonder the Jewish population was so low with all that stoning each other to death. Luckily Christianity and Islam came along and were much more merciful. Why don't the Jews do the stoning today?

They tried using logic against this Law and decided that it would be better to just darken the faces of both adulterer and adulteress and make them sit on a donkey and parade them through the streets of the city rather than implement the stoning because many times during the implementation of this law violence took place. So they changed their own Law and Prophet Muhammad (Saw) confirmed their own law when a case of adultery was referred to him.

Its maybe due to that why its not implemented even today, the Rabbis follow what their ancestors changed.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

I did not know that. Can you cite the source? I'm interested. Thanks bro Syed.

Scimi

Yes, sure, I've read it in Jerusalem in the Quran by Sheikh Imran Hosein as well as this tradition is cited in Conclusive Argument from God (Chapter 71) by Shah Wali Allah. The actual tradition can be found in Bukhari, Muslim and other sahih books.

Sheikh Imran Quotes this tradition where Jews in Madinah tried to test the veracity of his (saw) prophethood

"Finally something else occurred which should have sealed the matter once and for all. The Jews brought before the Prophet (‘alaihi al-Salaam) two people who had committed zina (sexual intercourse between two people who are not married to each other). They sought to test him by asking him what should be done to the two people. He asked them what punishment did they enforce. They replied to the effect that they made the faces black and then beat such people publicly. He then asked whether this was the punishment that they found in their Book. He asked them to bring their Book and to read from it (since he, himself, could neither read nor write). As they read from the Torah their Rabbi, Abdullah bin Salaam, who had become a Muslim, stood beside the Prophet (‘alaihi al-Salaam). When the reader came to the verse on rajm (stoning to death) in the Torah he put his finger over the verse to hide it. Abdullah bin Salaam ordered him to stop reading and to raise his finger. He then had to read the verse of rajm that prescribed
this punishment for zina. The recitation of this verse caused considerable embarrassment to the Jews. They had been exposed as a people who had betrayed their own sacred law and were trying to conceal that betrayal. The Prophet (‘alaihi al-Salaam) then ordered that the two people be stoned to death thus enforcing the Jewish law that the Jews themselves were not enforcing. This should have been sufficient to absolutely convince the Jews that he was, indeed, a true Prophet.


By the way apologies for the donkey part, thanks for making me refer to the source and that corrected me.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin

And where did the Jewish laws come from? Were they not from Allah?

Stoning is the punishment of the married adulterer in Islam and it is from the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم
There are many hadith mentioning stoning of the married adulterer so yes, stoning is the prescribed punishment according to Islamic law.

It is mentioned a few times that the jews distorted what Allah was saying...

• Qur'an 2:59 They "Changed it for a saying other than had been spoken to them."
• Qur'an 2:77 Allah "knows what they keep secret and what they make known."
• Qur'an 2:140 They "Conceal a testimony they have from Allah."
• Qur'an 3:78 A "Party among them" (Jews) '"distort the book with their tongues and say it is from Allah."
• Qur'an 3:79 The Jews "teach the book and read it themselves."
• Qur'an 3:187 The Jews "cast it (Allah's book) "behind their backs"
• Qur'an 4:46 The Jews "alter the words from their places" and "distort the book with their tongues."
• Qur'an 5:13 The Jews "altered the words from their places" and "forgot a good part of the message."
• Qur'an 5:15 The Jews "concealed that which Muhammad had made clear" and Muhammad made clear much which they had "passed over" (in their book)
• Qur'an 5:41 The Jews "alter the words from their places."

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar

Actually Karl, the stoning is a punishment which is considered as legit in Islam - the Quran is a book of signs, if you want the details - look to the hadeeth... and no, don't scream the same old tired wizzle I hear all over the net from escapists - "but the hadeeth can be made up" - if that is a legitimised argument that can hold scrutiny in methodology, then I am the King of England

Bottom line, contexts have to be considered and many here are just passengers. So the context is gonna be lost on them, they didn't want to find it in the first place... quranites are the same, bunch of compromised personalities who will make salah, whilst realising that the details of it are not given in the Quran either.

Sheesh... I'm facepalming on the behalf of the OP here.

Scimi

True, but stoning would be rare as there would need to be four male witnesses or eight female witnesses. Or the sinners were so grief stricken with guilt that they confessed because they believed being killed by stoning may give them forgiveness from Allah. And of course if witnesses were proved to be false, they would be killed.

format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin

I heard that, to implement the punishment of Zina, you also need to have a society free from things that lead to temptation. For example, in a secular country where there is so much فحش like nudity and free mixing of men and women and magazines and movies depicting sexuality, you won't be able to implement the punishment.

I understood that the hadd is implemented if there are four witnesses to the act, i.e. they actually see the act of penetration, or if there is a confession. I've not heard that society being full of temptation is regarded as a valid excuse. I teach my kids that the only form of acceptable sexual activity in our religion is within marriage and punishment is due for those that disobey this, no excuses.

Salaam Ummshareef,

I agree with Dreamin, I believe shes mentioning a major factor to be kept in view by those who are to pass the judgment and give a decision based on this law.

If the society is corrupt then most likely they will keep this in mind before passing any decision of rajm.

But when it comes to persons like us, regular citizens we have to inform our family members and children and each other that what is haraam is haraam, simple!

format_quote Originally Posted by Dreamin

I heard that, to implement the punishment of Zina, you also need to have a society free from things that lead to temptation. For example, in a secular country where there is so much فحش like nudity and free mixing of men and women and magazines and movies depicting sexuality, you won't be able to implement the punishment.

Of course there would not be Sharia law in such a society. That society will have it's own set of taboos. Like you can bed a different partner of any gender every night as long as they are of "legal age", but you can not have more than one wife.

format_quote Originally Posted by Karl

No wonder the Jewish population was so low with all that stoning each other to death. Luckily Christianity and Islam came along and were much more merciful. Why don't the Jews do the stoning today?

Because the death penalty was very rare in its application, even in those days, and required 3 (kosher) witnesses.

It is impossible at all to apply today as there is no higher court of 70 judges (called the Sanhedrin).

The question was asked, to I answered.

format_quote Originally Posted by gurufabbes

Because the death penalty was very rare in its application, even in those days, and required 3 (kosher) witnesses.

It is impossible at all to apply today as there is no higher court of 70 judges (called the Sanhedrin).

The question was asked, to I answered.

But Israel is a Jewish state and if it does not enforce the laws of it's own religion then it has no reason to exist. It has just become a sandy hotter version of New York city. Hmmm that's why the terrorist attacks, New York is just West Israel.

format_quote Originally Posted by Karl

But Israel is a Jewish state and if it does not enforce the laws of it's own religion then it has no reason to exist. It has just become a sandy hotter version of New York city. Hmmm that's why the terrorist attacks, New York is just West Israel.

I read a book about the Russian mafia.
After reading it, I wondered why it was not called the jewish mafia?

Every single mobster was jewish and the would often flee to Israel and there they would find a good place for their ill found money.
As the author said something like, it does not matter where the money comes from, all money is good.
Everything is about money - ethics/beliefs... just do not matter

format_quote Originally Posted by Karl

But Israel is a Jewish state and if it does not enforce the laws of it's own religion then it has no reason to exist. It has just become a sandy hotter version of New York city. Hmmm that's why the terrorist attacks, New York is just West Israel.

I saw the subject as being what Judaism says about stoning and why it is not applied nowadays.

Not the State of Israel and which laws it has or does not have.

format_quote Originally Posted by Snow

I read a book about the Russian mafia.
After reading it, I wondered why it was not called the jewish mafia?

Every single mobster was jewish and the would often flee to Israel and there they would find a good place for their ill found money.
As the author said something like, it does not matter where the money comes from, all money is good.
Everything is about money - ethics/beliefs... just do not matter

Money IS power, you can't run the world on ethics and beliefs, lies and propaganda are better. And stoning is very primitive, there are so many new ways of killing people. There are so many people walking the dark path and the Jews excel in it and take their sycophants with them. Let's hope the system crashes and there is money no more and we are just people on the planet and not the slaves of Satanic commerce and power games.

format_quote Originally Posted by Karl

Money IS power, you can't run the world on ethics and beliefs, lies and propaganda are better. And stoning is very primitive, there are so many new ways of killing people. There are so many people walking the dark path and the Jews excel in it and take their sycophants with them. Let's hope the system crashes and there is money no more and we are just people on the planet and not the slaves of Satanic commerce and power games.

Well, I hope you go around and express this anti-Semitism while preaching. People can see your hypocrisy for what it is.