× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Page 5 of 5 First ... 3 4 5
Results 81 to 81 of 81 visibility 12545

Diverse Problems for Islam

  1. #1
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    Array Traditio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    45
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    -40
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    -8
    Likes Ratio
    7

    Diverse Problems for Islam (OP)


    Hello! I am a new poster here. I am a Ph.D. student in philosophy, and I tend to spend most of my time with medieval Christian and ancient Greek philosophy. I only have a superficial knowledge of Islam (though I have read Avicenna's Metaphysics of the Healing), and I was hoping that you guys could provide an Islamic perspective on certain problems that I raise. So, I'll give you what I think are very potent proofs for Islam's falsity, and I am hoping that you, if you are able, will be able to show me why these proofs don't work.

    1. From what I understand, you guys believe that angels have bodies made of light, and that these things called "djinn" have bodies made of fire. But they're invisible. Fire and light are per se (essentially) visible. Isn't it a flat out contradiction to believe in invisible fire people?

    2. Granted that it's not a contradiction to believe in invisible fire people, I have a further question about their bodies. I am assuming that, since they have bodies, they are therefore animals (body-soul composites). Are their bodies complex (made up of a diversity of organs), or are they relatively simple (for example, in the sense that a camp-fire is relatively simple...that is, not made up of individual "parts," so to speak, but is just one fire)? If they are complex, then how on earth does that work? What would it mean to have an eye or an ear made of light or fire? If their bodies are simple, then how are they able to see, hear, etc? The senses require complex bodily organs. If they don't sense, then what's the point of their having bodies?

    3. From what I understand, you guys believe that martyrs enjoy bliss in a bodily paradise, where they shall indulge their carnal appetites for food, drink and sexual intercourse...without their bodies? How do you suppose that is supposed to work? Avicenna's answer is that good philosophers bypass these carnal delights altogether and partake of intelligible delights, whereas the ordinary, run of the mill Muslims who, nonetheless, lived good lives will enjoy these carnal delights...by imagining them. But this is, of course, false. Imagination requires bodily organs, and your martyrs are not currently united to their bodies. We can be quite sure of this. If you doubt this, go and check. I assure you, their bodies are still in (or on) the ground and, even if intact, are quite lifeless. So, in short, how are your martyrs supposed to eat the heavenly super fruit when they have neither mouth, tongue, throat nor stomach? How are they supposed to enjoy their 72 virgins when they have no reproductive organs?

    4. Related to 3, granted that your bodily paradise actually existed, why on earth would that be the goal of Muslim striving? Why would your martyrs want that? We eat in order to keep ourselves alive as individuals, and sexual relations are to keep the species alive. Why should someone desire food or sexual intercourse when he has achieved immortality?

    5. Supposing that your martyrs desired such a reward, wouldn't they rather deserve Hell? This would mean that they prefer carnal delights to God, who alone is to be loved and adored as a final end, and who alone is the ultimate "goal" of the rational creature.

    6. And speaking of Heaven and Hell, how do Muslims propose to escape the fires of Hell? Even a single serious sin turns us away from God, makes us enemies of God, and merits everlasting punishment. You'll presumably tell me that God is merciful, but I'll reply that He is Justice Itself. Pray as much as you want, but if there is nothing to counterbalance the infinite debt of punishment that you have merited through your sins, then you have no escape from His righteous indignation.

    7. Is it true that Mohommed says that it's sometimes OK to tell a lie? If so, he knew that telling a lie is always wrong, right?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #81
    Pygoscelis's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    4,009
    Threads
    51
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    31
    Likes Ratio
    17

    Re: Diverse Problems for Islam

    Report bad ads?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    You know, one of the most jarring things for me, as a Christian, is it seems as though you Muslims think that you can somehow "earn" heaven, that your own good works somehow "deserve" a reward from God. I find myself wondering; is there any room for grace (i.e., unmerited divine favor) in what is, effectively, a Pelagian cult (and here, I do not mean this in the pejorative sense, but in the etymological sense)?
    Why do you find it jarring. I find that to be one of the things about Islam I far prefer to Christianity. How can the concept of faith or grace trumping works be anything but unjust and arbitrary?

    I also very much appreciate that Islam doesn't share the concept of vicarious redemption with Christianity. That you should escape paying for your own wrongdoing by celebrating the torture and death of an innocent man... is disturbing to anybody who doesn't grow up Christian.

    Ultimately, I think I never can agree with your prophet, since I can never agree that I ever, of my own account, can merit favor in God's eyes, or else, if I have sinned, make up for my sins by my own power. Whatever good I can do, I owe that to God. Whatever evil I do, whenever I violate God's laws, I make myself an enemy of God, irretrievably and irredeemably guilty, deserving of His righteous punishment, rightfully excluded from His society because of my crimes against His Holy Law.
    That says more about your God than it says about you. That god would create you so you are sure to fail to live up to his standard, or even make you with "original sin" so you don't even have the chance.... is a very peculiar concept. That you should be punished infinitely for a finite wrong is also very peculiar reasoning. How is such a God just and good?

    How, then, can I but sigh in sorrowful pity when the Muslims tell me that I can buy my way out through good deeds?
    When Islam encourages good deeds, Islam is awesome and great. Can you really say otherwise? When Christianity encourages people to think they can find foregiveness through accepting a human sacrifice... that sounds a lot less promising.

    If Jesus hasn't died on the Cross and risen from the dead, all is lost. Such is, I think, as much as St. Anselm says in Cur Deus Homo (Why God [became] a man). The verdict is already written. The gavel has already sounded. We are guilty. We must pay the price.
    You mean Jesus paid it for you, right? You don't pay for your own wrongs in Christianity. You have a convenient scapegoat.
    Last edited by Pygoscelis; 09-03-2015 at 08:54 PM.
    | Likes BlueOwl358 liked this post
    chat Quote


  3. Hide
Page 5 of 5 First ... 3 4 5
Hey there! Diverse Problems for Islam Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Diverse Problems for Islam
Sign Up

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create