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Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

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    Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ? (OP)


    I came to this discussion site to try nourish some of the spiritual conflict I'm going through at the moment. I was raised catholic , was religious in the sense that I went the mass, took part in all the rituals and rites ( baptism , communion, confirmation etc ) but always felt a disconnect from it.

    Recently a close member of my family converted to Islam which inspired me to reflect on my own spiritual path. Along the way , Islam came into the fold. Im attracted to the purity of Islam but I do have some reservations that I hope to get addressed in this forum - hopefully some of you can shed some light ( and please - no heat !) I would prefer to put the questions in bullet point and would appreciate if they could be answered in the same manner for clarity purposes . I will admit , I am not going to reference the Koran or the Sunnah as I'm not well versed , I dont mind people quoting so long as they can give me a laymans answer to follow . A very warm thank you to all in advance !


    Questions :

    1) Why do Muslims follow the Sunnah when they were written from what Ive read , over a century after the death of Muhammad? Is this not similar to the
    bible with the Gospel and so pretty much dilutes the purity of Islam itself by relying on secondary sources?

    2) Why cant a Muslim love non-Muslims in a platonic manner ? IE have close friends that are non-muslims ?

    3) why doesn't Allah love sinners the same as Jesus ? Does this mean that as a Muslim , I couldnt love my family and freind's in the same manner? Does this mean that I couldnt have compassion for a murderer regardless of his crime ?

    4) A few remedial questions - why are their exclamation marks in the Koran ? How do muslims read the Koran? From what ive read - it incites a lot of anxiety in me !

    5) And probably quite a large question - does the Koran support individualism in society ?


    I have so many more questions but lets start with this and see what kind of a response happens.


    Many thanks to you all

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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

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    format_quote Originally Posted by oggy29 View Post
    thank you for the very detailed reply - Pretty much addressed a lot of things I was looking for clarity about - and I really appreciate your openness to further questions ! . I suppose what I was referring to around the individualism was in relation to my difficulty with how literal I experience Islam . I'm a bit of a perfectionist , and I feel that it would be a great difficulty for me to commit to something unless it was perfect. Also , with the literal aspect of things , where does it leave choice ? And not just choice for what is good or bad - but I suppose , choice in following healthy desire . . . hopefully this opens it up a bit ....
    You are absolutely welcome! I think it's great that you have both an open heart and critical eye, I'm the same way. I was raised Muslim, but my family wasn't necessarily religious, so I had to do a bit of soul searching when I came to the realization that I was just blindly following something I didn't know much about. However, on my own I began to research different religions, but the more I learned about Islam, the more I fell in love with it. I didn't know how to read or write Arabic, I didn't know how to pray, I didn't even wear hijab, but the more I fell in love with it and the more knowledge I gained, Allah alhemdulilah made it so easy for me to be able to adhere to these things, and also made me stronger to accept how different I would be amongst my peers (I was the only Muslim female in my entire high school). With regards to choice, I think that one of the things we have to build is a taqwa, which means "God consciousness." It's basically knowing that God is always there and we have to strive to live the best way we can and accept any hardships that come our way. We always have the choice to do whatever we want, but we have to be able to understand which will be the best for us and our hereafter. When it comes to desires, there's a right way and a wrong way to fulfill them, and rarely it can be more complicated than that, but for the most part, it's easy to figure out what to do, we just have to commit to actually doing it. I don't know if that answers your question
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by oggy29 View Post
    Thank you for the detailed response and taking the time to write it . I was wondering , I am a bit fanatical when it comes to origins and sourcing something with my own eyes - Do you know where I could find this method of Hadith accreditation and read up on it ? Many thanks
    try here, read this and inshaallah you will gain an understanding of hadith that even some muslims dont have
    its a bit of a hefty read (169 ish pages) but this will give you a basic overview of the islamic sciences of hadith
    i could have maybe found something shorter but i wanted something that used basic english while at the same time being an excellent resource on the topic

    http://www.bilalphilips.com/wp-conte...-al-Hadith.pdf

    hope this helps
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    With regards to choice, I think that one of the things we have to build is a taqwa, which means "God consciousness."do, we just have to commit to actually doing it. I don't know if that answers your question
    I like that , I suppose I have exposure to "mindfullness" where one sits and meditates on their breath . I'm not sure its the same thing, but I Find it soothes me - what would be you're stance on meditation ? Also , Can I ask, what does you're internal world experience in so far as emotions with the experience of having taqwa - is it joyful - do you ever find yourself more relaxed afterward praying ? I imagine that If I were to pray 5 times a day - I would feel more releived for having finished more than anything else - I hope that doesn't come across as offensive , I'm just looking to share my experience and to be honest , its refreshing to speak to a Muslim who dare I say , is more familiar with a western way of engaging with the internal human experience !
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    In essence, the Islamic prayer to me is very much solacing and complete. I've never really felt I needed anything else after prayers. There's a term "khushoo'" which basically means that determined focus or concentration in your prayer. Everything that I feel, be it thankful, desperate, scared, etc. when I stand up to pray and I'm in full submission to the One and Only, and I know there is no barrier between Him and I, then by the time I finish my prayers it's like I've left all of my worries in His hands. I feel so grateful and blessed in having the full trust in Allah with my future, present, and past. When you prostrate, you can supplicate for anything you want or just give thanks. There is just something different about putting your head on the ground and knowing Allah is closer, it's very reflective.

    When I see someone else praying, I see such beauty in it because as an onlooker, I have no idea what this person is going through or what they're asking for, it's like it's a secret between Him and His creator, and no one can destroy that connection. So imagine having such a connection 5 times a day. The crazy thing is it's in different times during the day. In the early morning right before the crack of dawn, you feel as if the whole world is quiet and there you are awake only for the purpose of connecting with God and submitting to him, and during the daytime you stop in the middle of the hustle and bustle of the world again to make this connection, and before you go to bed after your long day you are able to get everything off of your mind and KNOW that Allah understand everything you've been through. But connecting with God doesn't stop at prayers, there's also du'a (or supplicating), and saying particular phrases (such as astughfirallah-May Allah forgive me, Allahu Akbar-God is Great, etc.), and tere's different kinds of sunnah prayers as well such as tahajjud (prayed in the last 3rd of the night) or istikhara (when you can't decide between two permissible things) for example. You connect with God when you want to correct something or do a good deed even when you don't really feel like it, or even when you take the step to improve yourself as a human being. If you feel like you want more than that, then there's nothing wrong with praying extra sunnah prayers at the appropriate times, but we can't spend our entire day in worship because our body has rights over us (it would be very tiring). Instead we strengthen ourselves in other parts of our religion such as reciting and memorizing Quran (which enhances prayer), learning more about the religion, fasting, helping others, paying charity, etc. but I'm sure once you see what 5 prayers entail and how much you can put into it, you'll feel that it's enough

    In regards to meditation, I'm only speaking from opinion not from religious knowledge about the topic, but I don't think it's wrong to meditate as a way to just relax and reflect, otherwise in Islam, prayer is our first place of "refuge" so to speak. So prayers shouldn't be replaced or even equated with meditation. Whenever I'm in a very beautiful natural setting, I like to sit and reflect, but I also say words of praise to keep in touch with Allah and acknowledging His creations of this world. When facing tribulations or even great happiness, I personally can't really replace the power of prayers with anything else.
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by oggy29 View Post
    I like that , I suppose I have exposure to "mindfullness" where one sits and meditates on their breath . I'm not sure its the same thing, but I Find it soothes me - what would be you're stance on meditation ? Also , Can I ask, what does you're internal world experience in so far as emotions with the experience of having taqwa - is it joyful - do you ever find yourself more relaxed afterward praying ? I imagine that If I were to pray 5 times a day - I would feel more releived for having finished more than anything else - I hope that doesn't come across as offensive , I'm just looking to share my experience and to be honest , its refreshing to speak to a Muslim who dare I say , is more familiar with a western way of engaging with the internal human experience !
    when i became muslim it was like subhannallah how can these people pray five times a day. now subhannallah i wonder how people get through the day without them. subhannallah salah is a huge blessing and for me at least anyway doesnt seem like a chore. im quite an anxious person so its kind of cool to pray salah and be reassured you know what my creator has got this
    salah would be one of my favorite aspects of islam. seriously cool alhamdulilah. basically dont knock it untill you try it. placing your head on the ground before your creator knowing that their is no god but he, is one of the most humbling yet at the same time honoured things your can do. amazing experience. its like i make a prostration and its like my soul breathes a sigh of relief and goes this is what i was created to do

    one of the scholars of islam (i forget who and im also paraphasing because i heard this a long time ago and wont remember this right) that "if the kings of the earth knew the pleasure we find in our salah they would fight us for it"
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    In essence, the Islamic prayer to me is very much solacing and complete. I've never really felt I needed anything else after prayers. There's a term "khushoo'" which basically means that determined focus or concentration in your prayer. .
    Ya know , Ive been reflecting on some of the questions Ive been asking here over this thread. Asking myself why I am asking these questions? - and I wondered where the individualism question came from - because it was a bit hazy what I was really asking I think . I realized that - I fear losing my own sense of choice and free will. And according to the christian - ( as well as Islamic) theology - a major pinnacle of the truth revolving around these two religions is that God gave us Free will. It soothed me to realize this - to realize that even though everything is overseen by the Higher Diety - we all have the power to self -determine. Now , the next thing to reflect on is - could I keep to the Morality instilled in Islam - and make it my own , as opposed to blindly following it in a detached manner - as you can see , emotionally accepting something is more important to me than cognitively accepting it - I have to feel it. I appreciate any reflections you might have on this

    I wonder , and this is a little off kilt to what we were talking about - are you are of any texts involving Muslim Psychology ? ...... everyone here has been a great help , thank you again.
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by eesa the kiwi View Post
    when i became muslim it was like subhannallah how can these people pray five times a day. now subhannallah i wonder how people get through the day without them. subhannallah salah is a huge blessing and for me at least anyway doesnt seem like a chore. im quite an anxious person so its kind of cool to pray salah and be reassured you know what my creator has got this
    salah would be one of my favorite aspects of islam. seriously cool alhamdulilah. basically dont knock it untill you try it. placing your head on the ground before your creator knowing that their is no god but he, is one of the most humbling yet at the same time honoured things your can do. amazing experience. its like i make a prostration and its like my soul breathes a sigh of relief and goes this is what i was created to do

    one of the scholars of islam (i forget who and im also paraphasing because i heard this a long time ago and wont remember this right) that "if the kings of the earth knew the pleasure we find in our salah they would fight us for it"
    That does sound soothing and revitilising - see the above reply I gave to charisma - I'd appreciate any reflections you may have . Thank you again , I was going to say - sorry for all the questions ..... but I'm not !! haha
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by oggy29 View Post
    could I keep to the Morality instilled in Islam - and make it my own , as opposed to blindly following it in a detached manner - as you can see , emotionally accepting something is more important to me than cognitively accepting it - I have to feel it. I appreciate any reflections you might have on this
    It would be better to ask this question in a more specific way because I don't want to generalize and say yes or no since I'm not really sure what you're referring to exactly. Islam is both emotional and cognitive, as in it answers our "Why's" or "How's" and it fulfills that feeling of the unknown. We're encouraged to ask questions and not follow just with our heart or just with our mind. It's no doubt that it's an emotional experience, but what strengthens our emotional experience is our submission with actions. Otherwise if we don't put in that effort we begin to detach both emotionally and physically. Being close to Allah when things are going good in our lives, is just as important as calling to Allah when things go bad. We can just love Him with our hearts, but if we don't put in the effort to pray, to fast, to do good deed, and we fill our time with ephemeral things, then eventually the connection gets weaker and we may sin more because we put our "God consciousness" on the back burner. The worst feeling is to stand up for prayer and feel like it's a chore because our priorities have been out of place.

    If in your heart you feel Islam is for you, then you will always have the option of converting. I mean it seems you already have an emotional connection with Allah, but you just have to make it official by proclaiming the shahada, and learn how to pray and stuff.


    format_quote Originally Posted by oggy29 View Post
    I wonder , and this is a little off kilt to what we were talking about - are you are of any texts involving Muslim Psychology ? ...... everyone here has been a great help , thank you again.
    There is, here's one specifically about Psychology in Islam (in pdf format).

    There's also many other books which discuss the power of du'a because essentially that's a big thing in our faith as well and it's what we use to cope with hardships. Here's a book I recommend: Du'a: The Weapon of the Believer (pdf)
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by oggy29 View Post
    ( i'm Irish and moved to Toronto a few months back )
    Welcome to Toronto. I would find it a shame if you decide we can not be friends due to your new religion.
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    With regards to individualism, Islam makes it a requirement on us to seek out knowledge and not to just follow blindly. So that in itself is individuality, following a religion blindly would not be individuality right?
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis View Post
    Welcome to Toronto. I would find it a shame if you decide we can not be friends due to your new religion.
    Thank you for having me I find people are so genuine , upfront with no sense of an inflated Ego and are willing to engage with people without any sort of cynicism. How are you today ?
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    Re: Islam - Allah Loves Sinners ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by oggy29 View Post
    I came to this discussion site to try nourish some of the spiritual conflict I'm going through at the moment. I was raised catholic , was religious in the sense that I went the mass, took part in all the rituals and rites ( baptism , communion, confirmation etc ) but always felt a disconnect from it.

    Recently a close member of my family converted to Islam which inspired me to reflect on my own spiritual path. Along the way , Islam came into the fold. Im attracted to the purity of Islam but I do have some reservations that I hope to get addressed in this forum - hopefully some of you can shed some light ( and please - no heat !) I would prefer to put the questions in bullet point and would appreciate if they could be answered in the same manner for clarity purposes . I will admit , I am not going to reference the Koran or the Sunnah as I'm not well versed , I dont mind people quoting so long as they can give me a laymans answer to follow . A very warm thank you to all in advance !


    Questions :

    1) Why do Muslims follow the Sunnah when they were written from what Ive read , over a century after the death of Muhammad? Is this not similar to the
    bible with the Gospel and so pretty much dilutes the purity of Islam itself by relying on secondary sources?

    2) Why cant a Muslim love non-Muslims in a platonic manner ? IE have close friends that are non-muslims ?

    3) why doesn't Allah love sinners the same as Jesus ? Does this mean that as a Muslim , I couldnt love my family and freind's in the same manner? Does this mean that I couldnt have compassion for a murderer regardless of his crime ?

    4) A few remedial questions - why are their exclamation marks in the Koran ? How do muslims read the Koran? From what ive read - it incites a lot of anxiety in me !

    5) And probably quite a large question - does the Koran support individualism in society ?


    I have so many more questions but lets start with this and see what kind of a response happens.


    Many thanks to you all
    Allah is Great
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