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  1. #1
    czgibson's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred!!!!!!

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    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by BeTheChange View Post
    I think you may hate some of the characteristics that people engross themselves in so you may hate the sin and not the sinner and this is what Islam teaches us to do.
    This is very good advice for the OP, and is an admirable concept in itself in some ways. Can you give some specific examples of where it says this in Islamic scripture?

    Peace
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    But , sometimes, the case is otherwise
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    Whilst yeah, if someone sins, one should hate the sin and advice him to leave it. But in some cases, such as rape etc. One needs to seriously reprimand the sinner.

    One should remember to do what is wise, and what is best. If guiltripping the sinner makes him sin more - don't don't do that - talk to his mind.
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    *charisma*'s Avatar
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    That's not a saying I'd use often. It's more of a Christian saying I guess, rather I'd say we should give the benefit of the doubt, or make excuses for one's actions, or give dawah and then go from there.

    Sinners fall under various categories and I wouldn't generalize. Some sins arise out of a mistake, some due to ignorance, some are intentional, some sins are private, some are publicly corruptive. We hate those whom Allah hates. With that being said, we must also use our better judgement when it comes to family and other Muslims, and we give excuses for someone until those excuses prove to be invalidated. If someone can be reformed of their ways, if there is hope, if they are people very close to us and there's a chance to soften their hearts, if they are willing to repent, then we do our best to help them. If they are nonMuslim we give dawah. When it comes to transgression then there's punishments regardless of whether we love them or not, but that falls under Shariah law. However at the end of the day, we are human and we can't always judge the entirety of a person and consider them evil for a sin they have committed. It always depends.
    Hate the sin, not the sinner

    D e a t h

    is the easiest
    of all things after it
    ; ;

    the hardest
    of all things before it

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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred!!!!!!

    Greetings and peace be with you czgibson;

    They should rather pardon and overlook. Would you not love Allah to forgive you? Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Qur’an, 24:22]

    “The repayment of a bad action is one equivalent to it. But if someone pardons and puts things right, his reward is with Allah…” [Qur’an, 42:40]

    But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Qur’an, 64: 14]

    It has also been revealed in the Qur’an that forgiveness is a superior moral trait: “But if someone is steadfast and forgives, that is the most resolute course to follow.” [Qur’an, 42:43] For that reason, believers are forgiving, compassionate and tolerant people who, as revealed in the Qur’an, “control their rage and pardon other people.” [Qur’an, 3:134]

    Those who do not abide by the moral values of the Qur’an find it very difficult to forgive others. Because, they are easily angered by any error committed. However, Allah has advised the faithful that forgiveness is more proper:
    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...4095445AAalEwK

    In the spirit of praying to a merciful God,

    Eric
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    Hate the sin, not the sinner

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Hatred!!!!!!

    Also we must remember that we all sin constantly and اللهُ is always forgiving us. There's also no need to go and tell people your sins, that is between you and اللهُ so no one has business reprimanding you in the first place. Hate the sin, not the sinner
    Hate the sin, not the sinner

    ต( ິᵒ̴̶̷̤ ﻌ ᵒ̴̶̷̤ )ິ ♬


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    czgibson's Avatar
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    Greetings,

    My original post was in another thread and it has been moved. I am still looking for clarification on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by BeTheChange
    I think you may hate some of the characteristics that people engross themselves in so you may hate the sin and not the sinner and this is what Islam teaches us to do.
    Does Islam really teach this? Replies so far in this new thread seem to go both ways. If anyone knows of any quote from Islamic scripture that says "hate the sin and not the sinner", or words to that effect, I would be interested to see it.

    [Eric, I don't think any of the quotes you've listed really say that. Incidentally, I'm not aware of it being found in Christian scripture either.]

    Peace

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    Serinity's Avatar
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    Take a rapist, you'd hate the rapist right? you don't say "I don't hate the rapist, but I hate the rape"

    The sin is attributed to the sinner, as such people will see you as how you behave, if you behave insolently, etc. you'll be viewed like that. But one should try their best to repel evil with what is best.

    For hatred upon hatred breeds more hatred. One should abstain to following to the same level of the one who insults. But at times one has to defend their religion, as such being pacifist would be counterproductive and would increase the insult of the people.

    If someone slaps you, and you don't slap back - and then they slap you again.. then you respond with words, if that doesn't work, then slap him, he slaps you? you slap him. This is conditioned by the situation you are in tho.

    Nothing wrong with retribution with due justice, even if it involves slaps.
    For example, in one situation to respond with wise retribution would be ideal, but in other cases, responding with words of wisdom would be. And Allah SWT knows best.

    If someone comes to you with evil, do not succumb to their level, but repel their evil with what is better. One has the right to defend themselves if they feel threatened but one should not transgress.

    May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

    And Allah SWT knows best.
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    ardianto's Avatar
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    Re: Hatred!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,



    This is very good advice for the OP, and is an admirable concept in itself in some ways. Can you give some specific examples of where it says this in Islamic scripture?

    Peace
    Greeting czgibson.

    You will not find ayah or hadith which mention "hate the sin, not the sinner". But let me quote a part from Sahibul Hikayat (stories of the companions).

    One day Abu Darda, a prophet companion, was walking with his friends. And they saw a man who was known with his sinful behavior. His friends condemned that man. But Abu Darda told them,

    "How if I found that sin in your heart, would you remove out that sin?."
    His friends said "Of course!".
    Then Abu Darda said again "So don't condemn your brother. But praise Allah, because He has saved you from that sin"
    They ask again "Don't you hate him?"
    Abu Darda replied "Verily what I hate is his behavior. But if he has left his behavior, then he is still my brother".

    This is just one example of how "hate the sin, not the sinner" accepted in Islam.

    Principle "hate the sin, not the sinner" actually is universal principle of religious people. But unfortunately, many religious people misunderstand it. They think this principle means we must let someone doing sin. No, no, it's incorrect. The correct meaning of "hate the sin, not the sinner is", we must hate sin, but we also must open our 'door' for people who commit sin, so we can help them to back to the right path.

    Peace, bro.
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    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    Greetings and peace be with you czgibson;

    Eric, I don't think any of the quotes you've listed really say that. Incidentally, I'm not aware of it being found in Christian scripture either.
    You are right, hate the sin and not the sinner, is not a part of our scripture either. Having said that, it is something we are asked to do in the process of striving to forgive ourselves and also forgiving others.

    I listened to Glen tell his story, he had been signed up to play football with Leighton Orient, alongside David Beckham. He had an exciting life ahead of him, but he was stabbed in the back shortly after, he has now been paralysed from the waist down for the last 27 years. They caught the man who did this, he served four years in prison, he was then able to walk out of prison on his own two feet, justice had been served.

    By this time, Glen had learned to drive a disabled taxi, he learned where his assailant lived, and then stalked him with the intention of running him over. Glen said at that point he came to understand that true justice could not happen. Justice is not that two people should be crippled, rather, it is that neither of them should be crippled. He knew this could never happen, he came to understand that he had to let go of his hatred.

    He said he had to live with two diseases, being crippled, and the greater disease was the hate burning away inside him. Forgiveness and letting go of the hatred was a gradual process, his wheelchair has been a daily reminder of the past.

    After we listened to his story, Graham Kendrick asked us to sing a hymn, he asked us to picture the people who have hurt us, and hold their names in our heart. the words of the hymn are....

    May the Lord bless you
    May the Lord keep you
    And may God's face shine upon you always
    And give you peace

    Now may the peace of the Lord be with you, be with you
    Now may the peace of the Lord be with you, be with you
    Now and always.


    In the spirit of praying to a merciful God

    Eric
    Hate the sin, not the sinner

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    To the oppressors and those who transgress the limits set by Allah SWT, if one can convince them - then do that. But don't do it at the risk of your Imaan.

    There will always be natural hatred for evil and disbelief. But one shouldn't go to extremes, and attack the person, for what will that help in helping them leaving the sin?

    And Allah SWT knows best.
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    'Abd-al Latif's Avatar
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    According to this logic I can rob a bank but you can't call me a criminal. Don't hate the player hate the game (?)
    Hate the sin, not the sinner

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    The sin is attributed to the sinner.

    So we should love the good people do, but not love them? So we should Love what the Prophet SAW did, and not him SAW? I don't think so.

    If someone does good, and is normal, one would like that person. Similarily with bad people. If they do bad, we judge them on that. But one shouldn't move to extremes.

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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif View Post
    According to this logic I can rob a bank but you can't call me a criminal. Don't hate the player hate the game (?)
    If someone rob a bank I would see him as criminal. But I am still willing to help him to leave his crime and back to the right path. Imagine if he decide leave his crime and seek help from me to guide him to back to right path, but I refuse him with "sorry, criminal will always criminal!".

    "Hate the sin, not the sinner" is a principle that our hate toward sin should not prevent us to help someone who want to leave his sin.

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    Re: Hatred!!!!!!

    Is this an Islamic principle?
    Hate the sin, not the sinner

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Incidentally, I'm not aware of it being found in Christian scripture either.]
    The principle is commonplace in Christian circles. The Bible brings the two sides of the saying together here: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).

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    Search's Avatar
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    (In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

    @czgibson:

    The Islamic attitude of "hate the sin but not the sinner" comes from specifically ahadith (prophetic traditions) and wider etiquette prescribed in Islam.

    For example, story of 'Abd Allah and Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): The background is that 'Abd Allah used to delight in presenting Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) with any delicacy that came to Medina and take it as a gift, and the funny thing is that he would take it as a gift and present it to Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) but then when Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) would ask him to pay the merchant from which he bought the goods he'd confess that he was unable to pay even though this was a gift. Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and he would laugh together and then the merchant was paid the price for the gift that 'Abd Allah was unable to afford but would seek to give to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). Despite this cordial and jovial friendship that they shared, 'Abd Allah was a widely known alcoholic of the time of Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). From another hadith (prophetic tradition) we know that Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) has said that alcohol is cursed and cursed also is the person who drinks, buys, sells, makes or pours alcohol.

    'Abd Allah was would be frequently so drunk that he had to be brought staggering through the streets to be sentenced by Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) for public drunkenness and this act was a common occurrence. Once when 'Abd Allah had departed from one of the frequent instances of having been sentenced as recorded in hadith (prophetic tradition), one of the Companions declared in reference to 'Abd Allah, "O Allah curse him. How often he is summoned for this!" Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) became upset and said, "Do not curse him, for I swear by Allah, if you only knew just how very much indeed he loves Allah and His Messenger" (Sahîh al-Bukhârî (6282)).

    This right there is the attitude of hate the sin but not the sinner, for Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) himself testified as to this man's devotion to God and Messenger of God despite this man's indulge in sin and also had a loving and cordial relationship with the man who was a known and public sinner.

    In Quran (verse 11 of Sura Hujarat), God says, “O you who believe, let not (one) people laugh at (another) people perchance they may be better than they, nor let women (laugh) at (other) women, perchance they may be better than they; and do not find fault with your own people nor call one another by nicknames; evil is a bad name after faith, and whoever does not turn, these it is that are the unjust.”

    Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) also said, “Beware of suspicion, for suspicion is the greatest falsehood. Do not try to find fault with each other, do not spy on one another, do not vie with one another, do not envy one another, do not be angry with one another, do not turn away from one another, and be servants of Allah, brothers to one another, as you have been enjoined. A Muslim is the brother of a Muslim, he does him no wrong, nor does he let him down, nor does he despise him. Fear of God is here, fear of God is here, and he pointed to his chest. It is evil enough that a Muslim should look down on his brother. For every Muslim is sacred to one another: his blood, his honor, and his property. Allah does not look at your bodies or your forms, or your deeds, but He looks at your hearts" (Bukhari, Muslim).

    Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Whoever shames his brother for a sin will not die until he does it too” (al-Tirmidhi in Kitaab Sifat al-Qiyaamah wa’l-Wara’, 2429).

    Also, part of a larger hadith (prophetic tradition) is when Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) advised, "Let your own faults prevent you from criticizing others and do not try to find fault with others, because you commit those faults yourself. It is enough to prove you guilty that you should find in others such faults as you yourself possess, though you may not be aware of them, and that you should find in others such misdeeds as you yourself commit" (Ibn Hibban).
    Last edited by Search; 05-27-2016 at 09:08 PM.
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    Re: Hatred!!!!!!

    (In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)


    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif View Post
    Is this an Islamic principle?
    Yes.

    (And peace be upon you)
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    Re: Hate the sin, not the sinner

    Czgibson - maybe the story of abdullah the drunkard donkey and prankster who the Prophet pbuh would sit and joke with until his teeth showed and have whipped regularly for drunkenness, and on whose behalf the prophet pbuh admonished another companion who had cursed him.

    Or maybe the woman whom umar or khaalid (ra) cursed during the punishment of stoning, and the Prophet pbuh deterred him from cursing her due to the fact that her repemtance was sincere and that she was pure in the sight of God.

    Wasn't always the case though, it is recorded that the Prophet pbuh said that his eyes were pleased with the death of abu jahl and he described him as the pharaoh of the age.
    Hate the sin, not the sinner














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