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So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

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    So the Khan family. We're all good, right? (OP)


    Khizr and Ghazala Khan, their late son Humayan Khan. Everyone knows the situation. Go after Trump, he reacts how everyone kind of knew he would, the US finally reacts to Trump (mostly anyway) as they should. To me at least, it seems like the start of a healthy conversation. First, because sales of pocket Constitutions have gone through the roof, and second because it starts a conversation about people who are thoroughly Muslim and thoroughly American, it's not binary and these aren't things that are naturally in conflict with one another.

    Now, just as far as Humayan Khan being a member of the US military. And fighting for the US in the Middle East. We're all good, right? It was brought to my attention, a few weeks ago, that there's a list of different things that disqualify someone from properly being a Muslim. One of those things involves fighting alongside infidels, especially if you're fighting with then against Muslims.

    I also realize this is, perhaps, an issue that's better left for a true scholar, a true expert, if I were to look for something comprehensive and truly official. And that's okay, I don't necessarily need all of that. Maybe there's a later step where I find out about that, but right now let's just do what we can.

    As a regular Muslim who may be interacting with this as it's currently in the public eye, and perhaps as it leads to further conversations about Islamic and American identities and about military service in general, what does the thought process look like or you and where do you take this sort of conversation?

    The whole thing with the prohibition against fighting alongside infidels- is this a thing, at all, that gets considered? Is it even on the radar? Is there much of anything that needs to be said about it? If this is a thing, please walk me through it a little bit, if not then I'm really fine if this thread winds up not being very much about that.

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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

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    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)

    @
    islamirama

    The scholars are also very clear that whoever makes takfir (calling a Muslim a kaffir) has that takfir revert back to him. Scholars are also agreed that we must have husn-dhann (good thoughts) about our brothers and sisters in Islam. There's also a fatwa (legal ruling) to which I'd like to link you that might be of some relevance here: I Have Entertained Thoughts About The Disbelief of Another Muslim: Am I Still Muslim?

    I don't want to address the death toll of Muslims in different countries, because I agree that it's sad and heartbreaking. That said, promoting this idea of "war with Islam" only breeds hatred and radicalization of susceptible Muslims (as I've previously discussed on IB) and we have terrorists emerge with the idea that they will somehow end this injustice. However, the consequences of such terrorism is the antipathy and disgust of normal Muslims, more Muslim deaths in different countries held responsible for the actions of the few terrorists, and individuals like Donald Trump being able to come onto the national stage and confidently tell the gullible public that there's something hideous within and insidious about Muslims and Islam.

    So, again, I agree to disagree with you.

    (And peace be upon you)

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    wa'alaikum as'salaam

    For your matyr statement, I'll repost what I shared before. Doesn't matter what I consider, the scholars are clear on this.


    The scholars of Islam are unanimously agreed that whoever supports the kaafirs against the Muslims and helps them in any way is a kaafir like them as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”

    [al-Maa'idah 5:51].


    Regarding your not at war with Muslims statement, try telling that to the 20 Million Muslims dead and counting....
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    All in all, the so called war on terror was a war of terror and a war on Islam. And this western war of America and it's allies resulted in a modern day holocaust of 20 Million Muslims.
    And yet, there are all those Muslims seeking refuge in the US and the rest of the West.

    Personally, I blame the idiot French and British diplomats who drew the borders in the Middle East after World War 1.

    Otherwise, the invasion of Afghanistan was justified, but boy, did we ever screw up the peace afterward. The initial invasion of Iraq was a direct result of Hussein's invasion of Kuwait (and I understand Bush senior is still considered a Kuwaiti hero). OTOH, the second invasion under Bush junior was based on a lie, and I thought so at the time because of the way the politicians kept giving evasive answers about why it was necessary.

    I guess there's *some* justice to the claim that Daesh is America's fault. As in Afghanistan, we screwed up the peace process afterward. I think the reason that happened, both times, is that we were too anxious to come home; we should have stuck around to rebuild, the way we did in Europe, Japan and Korea.

    Even so, while the US may bear some responsibility for the birth of Daesh, we bear no fault for Daesh's barbarity and attacks against Muslims. It seems to me that Daesh is the true enemy of Islam.
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    So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. -- Thomas Jefferson
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    It is clear that the multiple murders in this one casual day at the office were not noted, and most of the sometimes 50+ (in one street corner) bodies cuffed with american issue cable ties turning up all over the place were reported as "horrific al qaeda atrocities".



    And Allah knows best.

    Here's a full length documentary detailing some of the more obvious incentives but goes into depth with facts, figures and actions.



    As a matter of fact i do support ANY group that supports the cause of Allah, accepts Muhammad as the final Messenger of God to ALL of mankind, and strives for Allah's sake whilst seeking to please Allah, the labels are for you the kuffar asteroid fodder to puzzle over, as it appears that kuffar and munafiqeen, like their predecessors amongst the people of Pharaoh enjoy playing the puzzles of the foolish kafir leaders drunk at the steering wheel who give wicked counsel whilst inviting to hell.

    Wa aakhira da'waan Al hamdu li Allahi rabb al 'aalameen for tonight inshaAllah (it's almost fajr here and the sweet adhan is blaring on the speakers everwhere).


    Edit: just remembered so i thought i'd post before saying c ya's tomorrow inshaAllah:


    Abdul-Aziz al Hassan is from al Gharra, his first name the same as the mountain’s. He left the village while the Islamic State was in charge, but it is because of a bomb from an American plane that he cannot go back. What happened to his family is the story of just one bomb of the 35,000 dropped so far during 10,000 missions flown in the US-led air war against the Islamic State......

    .......As a result of al Hassan’s testimony provided by GlobalPost, US Central Command — CENTCOM — said*it would look again*at whether it did bomb the village. For now, the United States has no record of killing any civilian in al Gharra. GlobalPost found other instances of US airstrikes — detailed below — that probably killed civilians but which were not officially investigated, or which were investigated and dismissed.

    In almost a-year-and-a-half of bombing Iraq and Syria, the United States admits to killing just 21 innocent people.

    An independent monitoring group says the real figure "could be more than a thousand."


    http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-02-0...t-acknowledges
    Last edited by Abz2000; 08-06-2016 at 10:49 PM.
    So the Khan family. We're all good, right?




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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    Joining the Zionist war machine is probably not a virtuous profession for a Muslim. Apostate or traitor comes to mind. A lot of Americans have left the USA as they can't stand it's evil ways. So why do Muslims live there and support it's evil regime?
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Joining the Zionist war machine is probably not a virtuous profession for a Muslim. Apostate or traitor comes to mind. A lot of Americans have left the USA as they can't stand it's evil ways. So why do Muslims live there and support it's evil regime?
    why do muslims leave the mid east for europe and the US? whilst Muslim majority countries shut the borders on them.
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    So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)

    So, I'd like to answer your question as to why Muslim Americans would stay/continue to stay in the United States:

    First and foremost, there is no Utopian Muslim-majority country currently in the world and in many places are worse than the United States because many Muslim-majority countries are rife with internal conflict (e.g. Turkey, Lebanon), unstable (e.g. Palestine), corruption (Pakistan, Indonesia, Egypt, Morocco) or are currently war-torn (e.g. Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq).

    Secondly, whenever a Muslim speaks of American Muslims or British Muslims or whatever non-Majority country's national Muslim making hijra (migration), the first thing I feel like asking is how much money is this person willing to fork himself/herself for resettling the person and his/her family in question in a Muslim-majority country. This is assuming that the Muslim-majority country would be willing to accept with wide open arms Muslims' immigration into their country and give them citizenship, which many Muslim-majority countries like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia refuse to do.

    Thirdly, no matter what criticism people may raise of United States, the truth is that all minority religions are allowed to currently practice their religion freely with no restrictions and one to say anything whereas the same is not true in many Muslim-majority countries. People can freely practice their Islam here; however, I'm not sure this would be the case, for example, in Iran, for Sunnis. Also, would Muslims not be incarcerated if they criticized the Saudi Arabian government and Pakistan legitimately for speaking about how these governments are inequitable in their application of the law on certain persons who are considered exempt and above the law despite the fact that many of the criticisms would come from Islam itself?

    Fourthly, America is no more "evil" than a lot of Muslim-majority countries in the world. In fact, in terms of evil of Muslim-majority countries, I'd have to say that America has the excuse of being a non-Muslim country and therefore whatever "evil" you perceive is excusable on account of ignorance whereas what is the excuse of Muslim-majority countries which by standards of Islam are supposed to be bastions of light and goodness and instead are not?

    Finally, I resent the implication that a Muslim must only be a Muslim and cannot be an American and a Muslim; this echoes much of Donald Trump's supporters' rhetoric which I find frankly idiotic and baseless. Also, if Islamic scholars have offered different opinions in the past on a Muslim joining an army, then why is this matter not considered sufficient to enable in you the self-possession to refrain from using the words "apostate" and "traitor" for someone who's dead and not there to defend himself or his intentions to you? His judgment is now with God, I'd remind you and also everyone else.

    (And peace be upon you)

    format_quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Joining the Zionist war machine is probably not a virtuous profession for a Muslim. Apostate or traitor comes to mind. A lot of Americans have left the USA as they can't stand it's evil ways. So why do Muslims live there and support it's evil regime?
    Last edited by Search; 08-07-2016 at 03:05 AM.
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    kritikvernunft's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by cooterhein View Post
    The whole thing with the prohibition against fighting alongside infidels- is this a thing, at all, that gets considered? Is it even on the radar? Is there much of anything that needs to be said about it?
    The more you consider someone your enemy, the more it is necessary to keep an eye on him. Therefore, it automatically creates the need to move closer, so that you can better see what exactly your enemy is up to. How are you supposed to do that from a distance? So, given the fact that joining infidel armies will make you privy to juicy information that you would otherwise never have access to, I personally quite endorse the idea of Muslims enlisting in Kafir armies.
    format_quote Originally Posted by cooterhein View Post
    One of those things involves fighting alongside infidels, especially if you're fighting with then against Muslims.
    If these infidel armies are fighting against Muslims, there is even more of a requirement to closely watch them and know everything that they are up to.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    I personally believe that Humayun Khan was a matyr Islamically ... and so he is a true hero ... he's a martyr. Period.
    Humayun Khan could certainly have been a martyr. There are certainly Muslims who were martyred while harvesting important information and keeping an eye on everything that the infidel are doing.
    format_quote Originally Posted by MisterK View Post
    Sadly, I live in a state that will almost certainly go to Trump no matter what.
    Our beloved Donald Trump has already, and will further enrage, alienate, and infuriate lots of demographics. He will build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. He will prevent access to the USA to Muslims. He will duly take China to the cleaners. Our beloved Donald will obviously, and on the fly, add new, unfavoured demographics to his list. The only thing left to do, is to help our beloved Donald Trump to do all of that simultaneously. We must discourage him from taking on his adversaries one by one. Therefore, I consider it in my interest to maximally assist our beloved Donald Trump to rigorously do all of that as soon as possible, and all of it at the same time. Seriously, I personally believe that our beloved Donald Trump is a God-sent. Therefore, I am very much in favour of our beloved Donald Trump winning the American presidential elections.
    format_quote Originally Posted by keiv View Post
    I don't agree with Muslims joining the US military. I can't see why a Muslim would want to do that... You don't need to strap a rifle around your neck and stand alongside kafirs to fight against other Muslims.
    The purpose of joining Kafir armies is to watchfully keep an eye on them. How else are we going to get any useful information, if not from the inside? Therefore, I believe that it is a worthwhile ambition to try to get into the inner sanctum of all the command -and control centers of these military organizations. All you need to do, in order to achieve that, is to tell the kafirs what they want to hear. What would be wrong with that? I do it all the time! ;-)
    format_quote Originally Posted by Aaqib View Post
    My dad is in the military, and there is nothing wrong with that.
    Exactly. There is obviously nothing wrong with that. What would you prefer? Would you prefer that the kafirs control all the important buttons, or that it is a Muslim nearby who does it?
    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    The khan family's message and appearance was good PR for the Democrats and for American Muslims. Their "sacrifice" however wasn't all that "islamically" worthy. It's not that Muslims are not allowed to fight along side non-Muslims but rather they are not allowed to join the enemies of Islam. America is a clearly an open enemy of Islam.
    America is a territorial polygon while Islam is the concrete, real-world instantiation of the abstract concept of a monotheist religion, but still a virtuality. How can a territorial polygon be at war with a virtuality? That is why Obama has never agreed to "go to war with Islam". He obviously knows better. There is such a massive type(-theory) mismatch between the "type of" America and the "type of" Islam.

    Still, there is an intersection. The power of national states is based on their secret services. It is therefore based on their capacity to infiltrate. But then again, it should be clear to everyone that a religion's capacity to do exactly that -- to infiltrate -- is much more impressive. Islam is so much more capable of infiltrating any real-world enemy than the other way around. I am such a good example of that principle. As a revert, how could anybody know about my Islamic sympathies, unless I tell them by myself? Nobody can suspect this. Therefore, I am an infiltrated element amongst unsuspecting kafir, just like you have lots of infiltrated kafir elements amongst the Muslims. But then again, Islam is obviously several orders of magnitude superior in that game, while it is this very game that will always end up deciding the outcome of any conflict.
    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    "O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)"
    The more you dislike them, the closer you need to keep an eye on them. Isn't that obvious?
    format_quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    I'm also sorry, but I have in the past said I disagree with persons who say that there is a war with Islam.
    There is no "war" but an "infiltration rat race" ongoing. Whatever happens next in Syria no longer matters, because it is obviously Islam that has already won the rat race by sending a staggering 2+ million Syrians into Western Europe. How many infiltration battles have the Kafir won in the Syrian civil war? Zero. Zero. And again zero. What we need next, is to encourage additional conflict between Turkey and the European Union. Turkey has "promised" to retain Syrian refugees on its territory and to prevent them from moving up north and west. Erdogan agreed to do that, on the condition that the Turks, who are also Muslims, would obtain visa-free travel into the European Union. In my impression this visa-free travel did not materialize. I have not seen large numbers of Turks actually doing any "travelling" into the European Union. Erdogan's deal was supposed to be a one-way bet in terms of "infiltration". It clearly is not. Therefore, since the deal is obviously not productive, we must encourage Erdogan to obliterate this deal. Seriously, Erdogan must now remove all obstacles that prevent Syrian refugees from going where they want to go, north or west, unless the European Union agrees to accept "traveling" Turks instead. By the way, Erdogan will go this route anyway, because he is sitting on a reservoir of millions of Syrians that he can unleash at will and at his earliest convenience. Therefore, Erdogan is holding the European Union by the balls. The Syrian civil war itself has become utterly irrelevant. The war has achieved its goal already, i.e. to produce millions of deployable Syrians. We also have additional reservoirs running in the millions, in Jordan and Lebanon. I strongly suspect that the invisible hand of our Beloved Master Allah will end up sending all of them into the European Union. For now, it is Erdogan's next move that we should be watching. Erdogan is supposed to quarrel, argue, disagree, revoke, oppose, and become utterly uncooperative with the European Union, concerning the Syrian refugees who should soon be infiltrating the EU again, in large numbers.
    Last edited by kritikvernunft; 08-07-2016 at 03:36 AM.
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    @kritikvernunft

    It was once suggested to me that you're a satirist. I wasn't sure. But I'm going to ask you now directly as I did before once in the PM. Are you?

    Because I cannot seriously credit you as understanding what I've written as to have said what you're implying.
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    @kritikvernunft

    It was once suggested to me that you're a satirist. I wasn't sure. But I'm going to ask you now directly as I did before once in the PM. Are you?
    Because I cannot seriously credit you as understanding what I've written as to have said what you're implying.
    Well, everything is obviously going according to plan. Of course, not everybody can see this, but all the outcomes go in the same direction. Concerning the Khan family, let them continue to tell the Kafir what they want to hear. They are doing an excellent job, no? They are even better than myself at that; and believe me that I am also very proficient in these matters. I will tell everybody what they want to hear, if that suits my goals! In the One God we trust and in nothing else.
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    format_quote Originally Posted by kritikvernunft View Post
    Well, everything is obviously going according to plan. Of course, not everybody can see this, but all the outcomes go in the same direction. Concerning the Khan family, let them continue to tell the Kafir what they want to hear. They are doing an excellent job, no? They are even better than myself at that; and believe me that I am also very proficient in these matters. I will tell everybody what they want to hear, if that suits my goals! In the One God we trust and in nothing else.
    Okay - are you poking fun at the situation of Muslims and generally Islam - that's what I want to know. And no, I'm sorry, I cannot see how whatever you've said is a matter of "everything is obviously going according to plan." What plan and whose plan?
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    Okay - are you poking fun at the situation of Muslims and generally Islam...
    Do I sound like someone who would join a losing proposition? If Islam had no chance of succeeding, do you really believe that I would be interested?
    format_quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    I cannot see how whatever you've said is a matter of "everything is obviously going according to plan."
    Ok. Say that the plan was to inject 5+ million Syrians into the European Union.
    Half of the plan has succeeded already, because 2+ million Syrians have made it into the European Union already.
    So, now my question: Are things going wrong right now, or are they going pretty much according to plan?

    You may be confusing the real goals and real instruments.
    The conflict will obviously be won by infiltration.
    Bombings and shootings do not matter on the long run. They only make lots of noise, but they rarely achieve lasting results.

    The civil war in Syria has not allowed whatsoever to the kafir to infiltrate Syria. It has allowed millions of Syrians to infiltrate the European Union. Erdogan tried to negotiate, and to turn the Syrian infiltration into more of a Turkish infiltration, by exacting "visa-free travel", out of his adversaries, for the Turks. Erdogan almost succeeded, actually. I must admit that his tactics reveal a very skilful player.
    format_quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    ...whose plan?
    Difficult to say. Everything that happens, is always in one way or the other the will of the Creator of this universe, i.e. our Most Beloved Master, the One God, Allah.

    If you mostly look at things that do not matter, you will get the wrong impression of what is going on.

    Islam is obviously doing fantastically fine. That is exactly what the enemies of Islam are saying too, all the time, and they are absolutely right, but I can imagine that you do not see it! ;-)

    Let me give you a historical example. The Roman empire kept persecuting and executing Christians, until in 313 in the Donatus Constantini, Christianity became official state religion of the Roman Empire, and started persecuting the pagans. The Christians did not win one single military battle against the pagans; not even one. They lost every possible battle, but still went on to spectacularly win the war. In another example, you can see that the North Vietnamese did not win one single military battle against the United States. Not one. They still went on to most decisively win the war.

    In other words, military battles and their outcomes are usually unimportant. If you win a battle, but you cannot prevent the enemy from standing up and fighting again, you will lose the war, no matter how many battles that you have won, and will win, because in those circumstances, you will always lose the final battle. You can only defeat the enemy, if you can break his will to fight. It is utterly impossible to do that with weapons. However, if you make him doubt about his own beliefs, while you do not doubt yours, that is when you will have won.
    Last edited by kritikvernunft; 08-07-2016 at 05:04 AM.
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  16. #32
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by jabeady View Post
    And yet, there are all those Muslims seeking refuge in the US and the rest of the West.
    And where else do you expect them to go after invading and occupying their land and/or bombing the hell out of them?

    Otherwise, the invasion of Afghanistan was justified, but boy, did we ever screw up the peace afterward. The initial invasion of Iraq was a direct result of Hussein's invasion of Kuwait (and I understand Bush senior is still considered a Kuwaiti hero). OTOH, the second invasion under Bush junior was based on a lie, and I thought so at the time because of the way the politicians kept giving evasive answers about why it was necessary.
    Invasion of Afghanistan was not justified. They invade and destroyed a already war torn nation for supposedly one man who allegedly was behind 9-11, which too more and more evidence points to an inside job. Kuwait was a city of Iraq and Saddam had every right to take it back. The US gave him the green light in private and while preparing to destroy his army when he does. There's lot of evidence and politicians, secretary of state, US President and the such quotes out there,

    I guess there's *some* justice to the claim that Daesh is America's fault. As in Afghanistan, we screwed up the peace process afterward. I think the reason that happened, both times, is that we were too anxious to come home; we should have stuck around to rebuild, the way we did in Europe, Japan and Korea.

    Even so, while the US may bear some responsibility for the birth of Daesh, we bear no fault for Daesh's barbarity and attacks against Muslims. It seems to me that Daesh is the true enemy of Islam.[/QUOTE]

    Daesh are the creation of western intelligence agencies. Their leader is actually a zionist soldier. All of this came out at the time they started to emerge. They are being funded by Israel and the US. Iraqi gov't itself tried to stop US planes from dropping weapons and food to daesh camps. Daesh is here to destroy muslims and clear up the sham area for Israel so they can make their "greater israel" dream come true. All these spies, politics and cloak and dagger are high level games that are above most intelligent men let alone your average person.

    format_quote Originally Posted by jabeady View Post
    I'd like to see some documentation for that number.
    see my initial post here and my signature.



    format_quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)

    @
    islamirama

    The scholars are also very clear that whoever makes takfir (calling a Muslim a kaffir) has that takfir revert back to him. Scholars are also agreed that we must have husn-dhann (good thoughts) about our brothers and sisters in Islam. There's also a fatwa (legal ruling) to which I'd like to link you that might be of some relevance here: I Have Entertained Thoughts About The Disbelief of Another Muslim: Am I Still Muslim?

    I don't want to address the death toll of Muslims in different countries, because I agree that it's sad and heartbreaking. That said, promoting this idea of "war with Islam" only breeds hatred and radicalization of susceptible Muslims (as I've previously discussed on IB) and we have terrorists emerge with the idea that they will somehow end this injustice. However, the consequences of such terrorism is the antipathy and disgust of normal Muslims, more Muslim deaths in different countries held responsible for the actions of the few terrorists, and individuals like Donald Trump being able to come onto the national stage and confidently tell the gullible public that there's something hideous within and insidious about Muslims and Islam.

    So, again, I agree to disagree with you.

    (And peace be upon you)
    Wa'alaikum as'salaam,

    it seems that you are reading but not comprehending. I'm not the one making Takfir. I'm putting the two together for you, one, a muslim joining the kuffar army to go kill Muslims, invade and occupy a Muslim land and two, what the scholars say on the matter.

    Since quoting the relevant portion did not help, i suggest visiting the site to read the whole passage in its entirety.

    https://islamqa.info/en/33691

    Sadly, you failed to comprehend this point as well. IF we do not address the holocaust of the Muslims then who will? I said there is a war ON Islam not with Islam. There is a war ON Islam and ON Muslims. The holocaust of 20 million Muslims, the invasion and total destruction of Muslim nations and the continued occupation and war mongering of more Muslim lands is the testament to that.

    Stop trying to be a diplomatic Muslimah and open your eyes. Don't act so high and mighty just because your family wasn't wiped out, raped or burnt and pissed on. Those that were were also your brothers/sisters in Islam.

    O you who have believed, do not take as intimates those other than yourselves, for they will not spare you [any] ruin. They wish you would have hardship. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is far greater. We have certainly made clear to you the signs, if you will use reason. [3:118]
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  17. #33
    kritikvernunft's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by jabeady View Post
    And yet, there are all those Muslims seeking refuge in the US and the rest of the West.
    Correction: They infiltrate the West.

    The Christians, no matter how badly they got martyred and thrown before the lions in the Roman empire, kept infiltrating the pagans, subverting everybody from low to high, including army generals, until they finally managed to pull off their coup. The mother of the most likely contender for the job of emperor, Constantine, was also a successful Christian infiltration. Her husband wasn't, but that did not make any difference.

    Prior to Constantine's becoming emperor, the early Church was going through one of the fiercest and bloodiest of the persecutions by the Roman government, the Diocletian persecution. During this wave of persecution thousands of Christians lost their lives, churches were destroyed, and scriptures were burned. Then in 313, the situation reversed itself.

    The Romans had the silly habit to recruit their armies amongst the Teutonic tribes north of the river Rhine. You can imagine that these tribes were a prime target for Christian infiltrators. It worked, because the Roman armies were generally Christian, long before the population was. For Constantine, it was not just his mother nagging. In order to control his teutonic armies, he had to more or less adopt their religion.

    Some people say that Islam already came quite close to achieving that, because Obama's father was a Muslim. That is quite a close hit-and-miss already.
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  18. #34
    islamirama's Avatar
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by kritikvernunft View Post
    Correction: They infiltrate the West.
    Stop promoting falsehood and causing fitna. You attempt to validate the Islamophobe bigots rhetoric of us taking over through migration is not amusing. Muslims don't really want to come here for a "better" life, they would rather live peacefully and happily in their own lands, among their own people, enjoying their own culture if the west stops invading and bombing them, funding or creating extremist elements to engage in terrorist acts there, or supporting dictators or placing puppets in power among other forms of oppression and injustice.
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  20. #35
    kritikvernunft's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    Stop promoting falsehood and causing fitna.
    Why would it be false?
    And why would it cause more fitna than there is already?
    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    You attempt to validate the Islamophobe bigots rhetoric of us taking over through migration is not amusing.
    The Islamophobe bigots and their rhetoric can be very useful. It is quite unfortunate that you cannot turn it to your advantage.
    I have never seen my adversaries do anything that eventually did not work in my own favour.
    Seriously, I believe in letting my opponents do all the hard work for me.
    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    Muslims don't really want to come here for a "better" life, they would rather live peacefully and happily in their own lands, among their own people, enjoying their own culture ...
    Unfortunately, this is not our take. It is our Beloved Master, the only One and True God who decides about this.
    Maybe your mission on this earth was not to just "enjoy" your own culture.
    Maybe you have been tasked with other things to achieve.
    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    ... if the west stops invading and bombing them, funding or creating extremist elements to engage in terrorist acts there, or supporting dictators or placing puppets in power among other forms of oppression and injustice ...
    You can reasonably assume that the West will not be doing that.
    I am afraid that you are not realistic.
    You can endlessly keep complaining, or else just do the job that you have been tasked with.
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  21. #36
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by kritikvernunft View Post

    Unfortunately, this is not our take. It is our Beloved Master, the only One and True God who decides about this.
    Maybe your mission on this earth was not to just "enjoy" your own culture.
    Maybe you have been tasked with other things to achieve.

    I am afraid that you are not realistic.
    are you aware what you are trying to validate won't come to pass?

    Do you know that they will kick all Muslims out of their land one day and then seeing their society crumble from lack of professional skills will want the converts back and will go to war for it?
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  22. #37
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    Do you know that they will kick all Muslims out of their land one day ...
    It is not that simple to do this. You see, Muslims are actually very, very divided. That is why a relatively small group of pagans, the elite, can control a larger group of Muslims and an even larger group of individualized pagans. This elite is not particularly dumb. They will never "kick all of the Muslims" all at the same time. The head count would be way too large for them to handle. But then again, you still have a point, because someone like our beloved Donald Trump would indeed be silly enough to try.

    Seriously, it is insanely hard to do this kind of things.

    You will need to divide and mislead the Muslims, so that you can deal with them in much smaller groups. I must admit that this is exactly what Hitler succeeded in doing. He totally misled the Jews as to what he was up to. Furthermore, he managed to keep it a secret as to what exactly he was doing to the Jews in his extermination camps. You would need to be an expert at deception, like Hitler, in order to make it work.

    Any botched attempt at kicking the Muslims out of Western Europe would achieve exactly the opposite of what they would be trying. It would unite a head count of 30+ million Muslims against a much, much smaller head count of law enforcement (=dead within a week) and small national armies that are notoriously weak at urban warfare. Again, a botched attempt at kicking them out would achieve something that the Muslims would impossibly be able to do by themselves, that is, to unite them, so that they can take over political power. But then again, you are dreaming, because the current elites are not that stupid. Therefore, we can only hope that enough people like Donald Trump will get voted into office -- who would indeed be dumb enough to go down that route -- because otherwise, it will just not happen.
    Last edited by kritikvernunft; 08-07-2016 at 07:02 AM.
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  23. #38
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    Assalamu'alaikum oh Muslims, and may Allah guide whomesoever He wills to the straight path,

    @ kritikvernunft, God knows your inner intentions but you are one crafty git, sounds like you've done some white collar stuff in the past but have a brain tht is much less narrow to get stuck there,
    ,your posts make me wonder at the levels and layers and layers of your multi-storey mind.

    What you mentioned about the Romans and those of the Muslims of the time who became the uppermost shows a lot of depth lol, hopefully you'll use it for Allah's sake and not stay content with the shallow criminal short span mind of kufr.
    the Prophet pbuh did something similar at Al Hudaybiyyah and most of the companions were furious at him, 'Umar (ra) was even trying to "accidentally" give suhail's son his sword so as to undo the treaty but it stuck, then on the way back to Madinah Allah revealed the opening verses of Surah al Fath-h.

    The treaty stipulated that any man who became Muslim and escaped to the Islamic State from amongst the kuffar would have to be returned to their families, whereas any Muslim who commited riddah and escaped to the Quraysh in Makkah would not be returned,now this seemed very one sided and it actually was lol.
    the Muslims were able to maintain a pure Islamic State with no nifaq amongst it's members whereas the Quraysh out of their tribal zeal were blessed to have returned to them sincere Muslims who could guide them and set a good example, and also keep the burden of the murtaddeen and munafiqeen for themselves, now a long-suppressed murtad is a bit like a wild animal and this also helped to create a contrast in the minds of the undecided so that most of the people could see the benifits and purity of Islam, and the self respect and dignity which it intstilled in it's adherents until Allah supported His messenger after having already removed most of the opposition of ignorance from the hearts of the Makkans who had a growing number of Muslims in their families who were unable to migrate. A bit like the opposite of fox news in your very home

    A more recent example would be that of a government analyst observing a Muslim who's had their passport confiscated for standing up and decrying oppression, walks with his head held high, is highly sensitive to humiliation, and is prepared to risk his life to travel to live amongst and assist his brothers and sisters living as a majority whilst fighting back against oppression, and wakes up every day to attend meetings and prayer, in contrast to a perv who eagerly leaves a Muslim majority land in order to run to a kafir land where they tell you to "go back to your own country even if you're indigenous" and wakes up every day and rushes with his buddies to the local swimming pool to oggle at semi-naked women who and whose males have lost sight of dignity and self respect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxA4lmxjIbk
    And also:

    and this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wwc6qCGzXQ
    Speaks volumes.


    One thing i'm careful of recently is giving the enemies of Allah the opportunity to attack the people of the groups they arm because some of those groups are set up in order to gather intelligence against their own members (dajjal is a scary concept), and the majority of those people are sincere mujahideen risking their lives for Allah's sake and doing what they can to establish Islamic rule in their communities. Also, the fact that the drunk kuffar leaders arm the mujahideen helps the people of the world learn that things aren't so black and white as they thought and the fact that the kuffar leaders have to justify arming them by touting the benefit shields the weaker Muslims from having to pretend that Jihad is not a part of Islam.
    so ultimately Islam in it's entirety is justified.

    That's just some observations and hypothesis. But kritikvernunft i am both impressed and wary of you at the same time lol.
    to think i went to sleep after watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HFy4GJPsvE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haiPhz71c2o
    angry with the Muslims remaining in the lands of kufr whilst acting as a sort of shield preventing those given the ability from initiating a prayer of destruction and woke up to be somewhat consoled by your posts

    That's deep dude, there's a bigger picture i keep forgetting, maybe Allah's will for khilafah is more universal.



    Last edited by Abz2000; 08-07-2016 at 12:36 PM.
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  24. #39
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by kritikvernunft View Post
    Exactly. There is obviously nothing wrong with that. What would you prefer? Would you prefer that the kafirs control all the important buttons, or that it is a Muslim nearby who does it?
    The only Muslims the US army is attacking is ISIS, and ISIS is in the wrong. You want them to come to America and kill all of us, including the muslims? Doesn't seem so.
    So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him [59:23]



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  26. #40
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    Re: So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Aaqib View Post
    The only Muslims the US army is attacking is ISIS, and ISIS is in the wrong. You want them to come to America and kill all of us, including the muslims? Doesn't seem so.
    Why is your dad and his kafir army so concerned about travelling across oceans to fight innocent people whilst arming them to fight each other and use you as cannon fodder?
    isn't it better and easier that they spend the resources in establishing Islam and checking sinners in their own country?
    from what i hear, America has the largest and most disproportionate ratio criminal population on the planet, larger than then next God knows how many countries combined.
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