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Circumcision

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    Circumcision (OP)


    There is no thread with this exact title.
    Please (all obeisances), no non-answers. They made the other thread on the subject very difficult to parse.
    Does the Hadith (Muhammad) give any explicit direction on circumcision (male or female)?
    I only have the impression that it is practiced upon boys, but much later in childhood than is instructed by Abraham.
    Muhammad does give explicit direction on nursing, and my interest is in matters transpiring in the first days of newborn life.
    Thank you.
    eric

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    Re: Circumcision

    Report bad ads?

    I apologize Scimi. IB ceased sending me post notifications.
    To answer your first question, I used the royal we (as it is termed).
    Please give me a chance to read the posts below.
    PS-I do understand certain aspects of the life-cycle of a meme.
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    Re: Circumcision

    "as one gets older and weaker, especially since the skin becomes more prone to wear and tear and infection as one ages"
    "
    Allah's Apostle said, "Abraham did his circumcision with an adze at the age of eighty."
    Men,
    If it matters, please let me catch up:
    1) I make an insurmountable distinction in this matter (i.e. I cannot surmount it myself), between newborns and significantly older boys/men (the fitra is easy for a westerner to translate as "cleanliness is next to Godliness"). I take this matter upon myself. I cite Muhammad's most severe admonition as insurmountable.
    2) I am not a Christian. Christianity is the culture with which I was and am surrounded.
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    broadfork's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Circumcision

    Oh. There were some references above that did not apply, imho.
    I ask your forbearance that I view Muhammad as a man, as I do Jesus, and as personal teachers. I am able to learn more, thus, as it is easier to imagine one's self in conversation with them.
    Clearly, Muhammad would not shy in the least from this discourse.
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    Re: Circumcision

    Well, it seems the moderator will not own it, but the least respect would show "post deleted by moderator"
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    Re: Circumcision

    format_quote Originally Posted by broadfork View Post
    Well, it seems the moderator will not own it, but the least respect would show "post deleted by moderator"
    I stand corrected. My posts were there, then not there, now there again. I have had a post deleted before (with PM explanation), so may be over-sensitive. May we be patient with the child within
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    Re: Circumcision

    some things are constant regardless of religion.. for a while anyway.
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    Huzaifah ibn Adam's Avatar Scholar
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    Re: Circumcision

    What exactly is the question?
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    Circumcision

    اللي مالوش حد له ربّنا
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    Re: Circumcision

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    ...even circumcised their females and he pbuh is reported to have told them not to cut deep, indicating that he neither forbade female circumcision, nor recommended it, but put limitations on it, thus indicating that there may be instances where it is necessary and that he wasn't risking people forbidding it based on his statement in future - if the narration is indeed true. Honest and unbiased medical observations free from manipulation due to conflict of interest would help us understand it further.
    Thanks Abz2000, for taking the time to post all you did. Muhammad always strikes me as extremely considerate (though there are some anecdotes about him killing mocking-poets that I found upsetting to read). 'Prophet' seems self-defined as a top-philosopher, who gains a huge following. It ought be taken (imho) that Muhammad naturally abrogates former prophets by being a better one, and that that is right and beneficial, especially in the matter of NOT ascribing partners to God (this negates Abraham and Genesis 1:26 in its entirety, istm).
    While I see that there are anecdotes about infant circumcision within Islam, infant circumcision is clearly NOT mandated in Islam (according to all I see in this thread), even if fitra recommends it, all-things-considered, said fitra in no way implies that it need be practiced on infants.
    I disagree with the last sentence of yours, as quoted above (doctors very easily fall into a state of illusion/group-think, and they cannot report the 'feelings' of infants; they can easily be A Confederacy of Dunces, so-to-speak). Allah gave us foreskin. To cut it is not comparable to cutting nails or hair, as that tissue is dead/without feeling. But again, an adult wanting to practice fitra, including circumcision is nowhere on my own philosophical radar. It is, for me, a completely different topic, that does not interest or concern me (as is some bit of infant circumcision where it is clearly medically necessary, as it is apparently a common place for parts to mis-form during gestation).
    Alas, I was traumatized by the act (Maimonides even suggests that that trauma is purposeful), and so go against it pretty hard. I tried to tell a retired nurse-friend the other day, as a point of fact, trauma is scaled (and cumulative), and that not every circumcised infant suffers it the same. I had to laugh when she turned the tables on me (I have only been present at my own circumcision, but she had been present at many), and she, as witness, corrected my waffling about the scaling of trauma.
    Anyway, I am altogether out of monotheism. Monotheism seems to me as breaking-rank. The partner of God is nature, not ascribed by man, but clearly ascribed by God, and it seems insubordinate to try to get around that God-assigned sovereign. This is why polytheists solicited the many gods of nature to carry their wishes to the Godhead, Allah, for them (its folkish and metaphorical, and I like it better for that reason alone, and tend to belabor what I call mythology-literalism).
    I sit in fellowship at two different round-table groups, I can only come up with the word 'naturalist' as a philosophical identifier (everyone considers themselves as they wish in these groups, including Muslim).
    pbuy
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    Re: Circumcision

    Do NOT circumcise a female. It is not an Islamic practice and it is illegal in most countries, not to mention totally unnecessary and has so many health risks.
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    Re: Circumcision

    format_quote Originally Posted by lostbint View Post
    Do NOT circumcise a female. It is not an Islamic practice and it is illegal in most countries, not to mention totally unnecessary and has so many health risks.
    There you have it!
    An utterly natural, instinctual, and immediate understanding.
    No multitude of doctoral degrees required.
    No one should be doing anything down there unless the newborn (boy or girl) cannot do something as essential as pass water.
    Scientists and-or religionists assigning themselves as partner to God gives me the heebie jeebies!
    Last edited by broadfork; 08-12-2016 at 07:24 PM.
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    Re: Circumcision

    And this is why I see Muhammad as a wise, but not rigid, elder:
    "thus indicating that there may be instances where it is necessary and that he wasn't risking people"
    If the baby could not pass water, and you had the ability to help it, he would not forbid that.

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    Re: Circumcision

    ...can't wait until you reach the bacon debate.
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    Re: Circumcision

    Hello.
    I think it is more misunderstanding than understanding around a topic like this, as there are different practises and cultural differences.
    Circumision, what ever male or female, are quite the same. Why do western women pay to get unhooded if it is negative?
    What the Quran NOT tell anything about is infibulation, and of course this is only a cruel practice - and nothing more.
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    Re: Circumcision

    format_quote Originally Posted by shygirl1993 View Post
    Hello.
    What the Quran NOT tell anything about is infibulation, and of course this is only a cruel practice - and nothing more.
    Hello. Do you have scientific evidence for calling male one cruel?
    Circumcision

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi
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    Re: Circumcision

    format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Hello. Do you have scientific evidence for calling male one cruel?
    No, I don't, forgive me as it was only my opinion. But I don't think that I'm alone calling infibulation ( female ) cruel.
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    Re: Circumcision

    format_quote Originally Posted by shygirl1993 View Post
    No, I don't, forgive me as it was only my opinion. But I don't think that I'm alone calling infibulation ( female ) cruel.
    Sorry if i misunderstood you. You firstly said male and female ones are same and called it cruel. Male circumcision is an Islamic practice.
    Circumcision

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi
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    Re: Circumcision

    Circumcision is a Sunnah, insulting it, in any way, is disbelief.

    It is a Sunnah for Men, idk about women, so won't speak on that.
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    Circumcision

    Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
    " Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "

    Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an
    Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.
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    Re: Circumcision

    An error as such (upon infants), if I must say so myself (I declare it thus). If fitra suits the adult who desires maticulous religious adherence, then again, that is another topic, against which I make no complaint.
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    Re: Circumcision

    format_quote Originally Posted by broadfork View Post
    An error as such (upon infants), if I must say so myself (I declare it thus). If fitra suits the adult who desires maticulous religious adherence, then again, that is another topic, against which I make no complaint.
    No circumcision is not an error for infants. Infancy is the best time to circumcise the child. Also it is a Sunnah, as Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم had his grandchildren Hasanayn عليهما السلام circumcised on the seventh day after their birth.

    If you circumcise the child when he is older like they do in some parts of North Africa, first of all you are going against the Sunnah, and secondly, that child may be traumatized by the experience. So best to keep with Islamic tradition and circumcis
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    Re: Circumcision

    Circumcision is much more cleanly
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