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Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

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    Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

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    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    I'm sure many people will have heard the claim that Islaam abolished slavery and that Hadhrat `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه in particular, during his Khilaafah, abolished slavery. This is a claim spread far and wide, and so I posed a question to Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi, a scholar who specialises in Taareekh (history), to get his opinion on the matter and to know if he has ever come across this narration of the abolishing of slavery by Hadhrat `Umar رضي الله عنه in any of the Kutub of Taareekh.

    I have reproduced his response below:

    ----------------------------


    وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته
    Burden of Proof lies on the Claimant


    Before addressing the actual question, I would remind the respected questioner and all readers in general, that in Islām the onus of proving a statement lies on the narrator, not on the hearer. Even if this were not what we are commanded to do, consider the thousands of ridiculous lies which float in cyber space and which Muslims sadly magnify by the casual press of a forward button. If just the false conversion stories were true (Neil Armstrong, Pope Benedict), I wonder how many non-Muslims would be left on the face of the earth. If just the messages on foodstuffs which supposedly have pork in them were to be true, there would be billions more pigs roaming on earth than what there actually are. If we were to examine, trace and refute every lie, sadly most of which seem to have Muslim origins, there would not be time for the good deeds we are in fact commanded to do, even prayer.

    البينة على المدعي
    Allāh’s Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ said, “The onus of proof lies on he who makes a claim.” [al-Bayhaqī]

    Thus those who have lied to you must produce their “proof”. I shall nevertheless respond on this, because within the claim there hide certain dimensions which I had thought to write on independently, but hope to address now within the ambit of your question, if Allāh wills.

    ʾal-ʿAllāmah Shiblī


    I have of course not read every word ever penned by this most illustrious scholar, Allāh’s mercy be upon him, but I say without a shadow of a doubt that no Muslim scholar with the tenth of his learning and fear of Allāh would ever have made such a ridiculous statement, let alone someone of the stature of ʾash-Shaykh Shiblī ʾan-Nuʿmānī.

    If on the possibility that he is simply being misquoted, misunderstood, or taken out of context, then I would offer the following incident which is narrated in ʾal-Wilāyah ʿalal Buldān as a basis for the misunderstanding:

    ʿAmr bin ʾal-ʿĀṣ, may Allāh be pleased with him, was governor of Egypt under ʿUmar, may Allāh be pleased with him. ʿAmr’s son unjustly struck a Copt boy, under the delusion that his father’s status protected him from justice. The boy’s father took the boy to ʿal-Madīnah and sought justice from ʿUmar, who summoned ʿAmr and his son. When they arrived, ʿUmar handed the Copt boy a whip and allowed him to strike his Muslim oppressor. He then rebuked his governor:
    متى استعبدتم الناس وقد ولدتهم أمهاتهم أحرارا؟
    Since when have you enslaved people whose mothers gave birth to them as free men?

    In other words, free men are not to be enslaved and mistreated outside the ambit of the law. In fact Islām accords slaves great dignity as well. Yet not by the furthest stretch of the imagination can this be equated with a “ban on slavery”.

    The Spirit of Islām is Emancipation & Kindness


    Islām never abolished slavery outright in the letter of the law. Yet it is clearly obvious that the spirit of Islām is to encourage manumission of slaves. There are many penalties in Islām, which are compensated by means of freeing slaves. For example:
    لَا يُؤَاخِذُكُمُ اللَّهُ بِاللَّغْوِ فِي أَيْمَانِكُمْ وَلَٰكِن يُؤَاخِذُكُم بِمَا عَقَّدتُّمُ الْأَيْمَانَ ۖ فَكَفَّارَتُهُ إِطْعَامُ عَشَرَةِ مَسَاكِينَ مِنْ أَوْسَطِ مَا تُطْعِمُونَ أَهْلِيكُمْ أَوْ كِسْوَتُهُمْ أَوْ تَحْرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ ۖ فَمَن لَّمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ ثَلَاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ كَفَّارَةُ أَيْمَانِكُمْ إِذَا حَلَفْتُمْ ۚ وَاحْفَظُوا أَيْمَانَكُمْ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ
    “Allāh will not punish you for what is unintentional in your oaths, but He will punish you for your deliberate oaths; for its expiation (a deliberate oath) feed ten poor persons, on a scale of the average of that with which you feed your own families, or clothe them or manumit a slave. But whosoever cannot afford (that), then he should fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths when you have sworn. And protect your oaths (i.e. do not swear much). Thus Allāh makes clear to you His signs that you may be grateful.”[al-Māʾidah:89].

    عن أبى هريرة (رضى الله عنه) قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وسلم : ( من أعتق رقبة مسلمة أعتق الله بكل عضو منه عضوا منه من النار حتى فرجه بفرجه
    Abū Hurayrah (may Allāh be pleased with him) narrated that Allāh’s Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ said, “He who frees a Muslim slave will have Allāh free an organ of his from the Fire for every organ of the slave, to the extent of his private part in exchange for the slave’s private part.” [al-Bukhārī]
    If this is truly the spirit of Islām, why not simply abolish slavery? Firstly, in this age of atheism and apostasy, it is people who refuse to accept the station of the Most Glorious Master and that we are indeed His slaves, who feel qualified to challenge His decree. I may be a sinner, but I thank Him for guiding me not to approach that line. Secondly, the means Allāh created for a certain benefit may not always be palatable to all, yet the very fact that Allāh decreed it means that it is wise whether we see it or not. It would be a most depraved person who actually enjoys slaughtering a sheep and ending its life, nevertheless the mutton obtained is a blessing we all enjoy. Some people have a fantasy version of the spread of Islām that wherever a Muslim appeared, entire countries suddenly converted on the spot. Certainly there were mass and peaceful conversions. Certainly there was also stubborn resistance. Battles were fought and enemies killed. Did the Companions of Allāh’s Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ enjoy killing for the sake of bloodshed? Certainly not! Did they however hesitate to kill when the need arose? No! And whether you like it or not, one of the means of subjugating stubborn enemies was slavery. The Companions enslaved those who had to be restrained and slaves were sold in the market of ʾal-Madīnah.

    The full fruits of this form of slavery is known only to Allāh, bit consider the amount of knowledge we would have been deprived of had ʿIkrāmah, not been the slave and student of Ibn ʿAbbās (may Allāh be pleased with him), and that is but one example.

    On the other hand, the disgusting history of Oman’s human trafficking in East Africa may well have been within the letter of the law but far, far be it from the spirit of Islām. Yet if legal, what is the issue? In contradistinction to the above examples, Oman’s enterprise in Africa was one of terror and inhumanity. Slavery was pursued for itself and its economic benefit, with nary a thought to need, the glory of Islām and the rights which Islām accords slaves. So much did the name of Muslims stink that it was only when Christian Germany removed that dirty empire from Africa that Islām more rapidly spread under Christian rule! Sadly these days “foreign” Muslims are treated worse in the Gulf than what Islām allows Muslims to treat non-Muslim slaves.

    A comparison I would draw is that of the Islāmic penal code. It is stipulated in the Qurʾān, and whoever denies or argues it away should not pretend to be a Muslim. Yet the spirit of Islām is that the government should avoid exercising the penal code as far as possible. It is a tool which should be sparsely implemented, as opposed to the unrestrained practice of the Satanic Saudi regime and the cult known as ISIS. I have written about this previously in my article Misconceptions regarding Islāmic Penal Code & distancing myself from ISIS.

    The disease of Apologetics


    As humans we all commit some sin of the body or the other and are not in a position to judge each other. However, the sin of apologetics is born from diseased hearts which are not satisfied to confine the disease within the afflicted, but seek to infect the entire ʾUmmah and create an epidemic of doubt, inferiority complex in regards the west, atheism, theories without any basis in the Qurʾān and Sunnah, etc.

    For example, democracy in its very terminology is alien to Islām when adopted as an ideology, instead of a mere tool of governance, for it means that sovereignty lies within people and not the Creator. Yet there are so many who identify as Muslims who are so eager to bow to the western idol, that they insist that Islāmic Shurā (consultation), a command of Allāh, and whose result is not binding on the ruler, somehow equates to democracy, which teaches that the people can veto the Creator e.g. legalising prostitution.

    These people have no concept of the regulations Islām imposed on slave owners. Instead their view of slavery in Islām is coloured by the movies Hollywood spews, and which might in fact be true for the west, but not for Islām. The slave in Islām was part of the family and every position was open to the slave. Slaves had government positions and were so placed, they even managed to assume authority of Egypt, Baghdād and Delhi, and the Muslim populace accepted these as their legitimate governments. There is no parallel in the west. The uneducated Muslim is unaware of the full facts and therefore desperately seeks create the fiction of a ban on slavery.

    Certainly there were Muslims who were unjust to their slaves, but does a minority breaking the law mean that the we change the Qurʾān? My previous landlord, a man who is five times a day in the front row of the Masjid, almost directly behind the ʾImām, never returned my deposit. Every month, as funds dry up, I think of that sum I am entitled to and which would be most helpful. Do financial irregularities of such people mean that Muslims are banned from financial activity? The reasoning is the same.

    What further astounds me is that until very recently, the Church justified slavery as a punishment upon the “cursed” black descendants of Ham. Instead of tackling that racism and the evils which were practiced as religious tenets, not individual failings, we have Muslims who seek to transpose that western history upon Islām and change the Qurʾān!

    One who commits a sin of the body, knows he is a sinner and can repent. The one who fictionalises laws of Islām, and is secretly unhappy with the religion he was born with, never repents. He claims to be an intellectual doing good, whilst he challenges Allāh and His Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ. The laws he concocts without authority requires scripture or a prophet. In challenging Allāh and His Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ he in fact implies that he is a god or a prophet, or at the very least, knows better than Muḥammad صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ.

    Allāh’s Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ owned Slaves


    Allāh’s Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ and his Companions owned, bought, sold, and freed slaves. Are the apologists more pious and learned? There are so many narrations on this, but I thought the following narration of Muslim would be interesting, as it implies that the father who gifted a slave to each child would have been more just than just giving one child a slave. That was the law. Yet again, the spirit of Islām is to restrict slavery, so he cancelled the gift., Note he did not free the slave.
    عن النعمان بن بشير أنه قال إن أباه أتى به رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال إني نحلت ابني هذا غلاما كان لي فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أكل ولدك نحلته مثل هذا فقال لا فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فارجعه
    ʾan-Nuʿmān bin Bashīr narrates that his father took him to Allāh’s Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ and said, “”I have gifted a slave which I owned to this son of mine.”
    Allāh’s Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ asked, “Did you give such a gift to every child of yours?”
    “No,” he replied.
    Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ then said, “Then take him back.”

    There were slaves to the day ʿUmar died


    ʿUmar (may Allāh be pleased with him) would never have dreamt of challenging the Qurʾān and Allāh’s Messenger صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ. To say otherwise is the height of disrespect. The simplest evidence which somehow evades those who concocted this lie, is that his accursed assassin, Feroz Abū Luʾluʾ, was the slave of Mughīrah (may Allāh be pleased with him). He complained that the fee Mughīrah charged him was too high. ʾUmar ruled that the fee was fair based on his skills. The enraged slave then killed ʿUmar (may Allāh be pleased with him.

    Summary



    • ʿUmar never banned slavery.
    • The spirit of Islām however encourages its eradication in practice.
    • In theory, the ruler retains the legal right to enslave a hostile population. To argue otherwise means that is some other revelation the proponent has received.
    • The legal right where a need arises, does not contradict the overall spirit of emancipation.


    Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)

    @Huzaifah ibn Adam

    There is a site called alim.org, which has a short biography section on Umar and the site has two scholars and advisers that oversee the site and the writing of the articles. Just because this respected alim who has penned this article has not come across something does not mean that it does not exist. Not only that, many non-Muslims who have less reason to write anything of good about Islam have also mentioned in their biographies of Umar that he abolished slavery. Are they too mistaken? What about the other Muslim authors whom I've read? Am I to take this one alim over the non-Muslim and Muslim books I've read that have repeated again and again about Umar abolishing slavery.

    While I have all due respect for this alim, I must say that if there is an issue of misunderstanding as this alim seems to think, then he should be making this correction among the scholars who seem to have also spread this information and asking for burden of proof from them. Also, what does he have to say about non-Muslim and Muslim author of books who have been saying the same - are they too spreading information based on no evidence and that too for years and years?

    As a layperson, my knowledge is limited, and I admit this freely. However, this alim too must realize that no matter how big his knowledge, he could be mistaken as well. I don't know if he is, but until and unless he is able to find out what the root of what this confusion is that exists beyond the Internet which he thinks is the place wherein this exists only, I cannot simply believe him because not only do I not know this alim I also do not know why I should take his word over the others'?

    (And peace be upon you)
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    Sister, this man is regarded (by myself, at least) as the most knowledgeable scholar in the field of Islaamic history in the English speaking Muslim world. The scholars you are speaking of refer to him. The major books of Taareekh have been translated into English by him. To quote a site like "alim.org" against him (in his field of History) is like going to a heart specialist and saying, "You're wrong, because my three year old child says [insert child's comment here]." That's what it's like. And what's written in the English books don't count, because the Taareekh of Islaam is recorded in the original Arabic Kutub, which is what he has studied and specialised in.

    Was-Salaam.
    Last edited by Huzaifah ibn Adam; 10-06-2016 at 06:04 PM.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    I've read the article now on that website. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's like something written by Donald Trump. Whole lot of conclusions with absolutely no evidence to back it up. "Yuge" statements.

    I quote:

    "When Islam appeared on the world stage, the world economy was based on slavery. Islam was the first religion to raise its voice against slavery."

    No Aayah or Hadeeth has been quoted to substantiate this claim.

    "
    Indeed one of the reasons for the hostility of the Quraish againt Islam was that they saw in Islam a hostile force to slavery on which the economy of Mecca was based."

    Again, not a scrap of evidence produced to back up this claim. Which Mu'arrikh of the past has stated that the Quraysh EVER objected to Islaam's treatment of slavery and slaves?

    "
    When Umar became the Caliph of Islam, he took particular measures to eliminate the evils of slavery as far as possible. He took a very bold step when he declared that no Arab could be a slave. Arabia was thus the first country in the world, which under the impact of Islam abolished slavery."

    Can you appreciate the ridiculousness of this paragraph?

    He makes a conclusion: "Islaam abolished slavery." His evidence?

    1) Hadhrat `Umar said that no Arab can be a slave.

    2) He took out the evils of slavery.

    Based on this, he says that Islaam abolished slavery. That's like a person saying, "Islaam brought in Zakaah on the Muslims. Islaam brought in Jizyah on the Jews and Christians. Conclusion: Islaam has made it Haraam to have money. Every cent must be given away."

    Those are the kind of ridiculous conclusions being reached.

    If a person says, "I've taken out all the bones from the fish." Does it mean they've taken the fish away? They've thrown the fish in the bin? Or does it mean that they've taken out the bones inside the fish, and the fish is now still there, just boneless?

    Look at this:

    "
    During the apostasy wars many Arabs had been taken captive and made slaves. Umar emancipated all such slaves."

    "Such" = "Arabs".

    Yaa Salaam...

    Where is the mind of the person who wrote this?

    And his ultimate reference? "Professor Masud-ul-Hasan", a man from Pakistan who wrote some book in 1982. The man is not a Mu'arrikh or an `Aalim.

    The kind of conclusions made by the author is like a person saying, "When you put 1 and 1 next to each other, it's "11". Therefore, 1+1=11."

    ...فإلى الله المشتكى
    Last edited by Huzaifah ibn Adam; 10-06-2016 at 02:45 PM.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam View Post
    Sister, this man is regarded as the most knowledgeable `Aalim in the field of history in the entire English speaking Muslim world. The scholars you are speaking of refer to him. The major books of Taareekh have been translated into English by him. To quote a site like "alim.org" against him (in his field of History) is like going to a heart specialist and saying, "You're wrong, because my three year old child says [insert child's comment here]." That's what it's like. And what's written in the English books don't count, because the Taareekh of Islaam is recorded in the original Arabic Kutub, which is what he has studied and specialised in.

    Was-Salaam.
    Assalaamu alaikum Hufaizah,


    (smile) I looked up this person. And indeed, I found two books that he has published on the topic of history. Both are translations of books by Al-Waqidi. (mildly) While I appreciate that Sulayman Al-Kindi has done some work in this field, to say that "the major books of history have been translated into English by him" seems a little exaggerated, as there are many other books of history, and there have been (and continue to be) many other translators.

    I also question whether he is widely regarded as "the most knowledgeable `Aalim in the field of history in the entire English speaking Muslim world". (mildly) I have read books by others who are very clearly deeply knowledgeable.

    I do believe that this scholar has a certain degree of knowledge, and I respect his opinions. However, other scholars have differences of opinion, and I think it is legitimate to respect their opinions, too.


    May Allah, the One, Help us to learn to understand ourselves and one another through the diversity He Created.
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    Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

    The thing is that he specialised in history. There are lots of people who speak on history, but I myself have not come across anyone in the English speaking world with his proficiency in the field, and I'm speaking as one who himself devoted a lot of time to studying Islaamic history. In my student days, I used to write down the names of the books I've read, and so I had notebooks filled up just with the names of all the Kitaabs I had read, Alhamdulillaah, and majority of those were on Taareekh and Tasawwuf. Yet, my own knowledge in Islaamic history is insignificant and minute compared to his. Also, he is a scholar of Deen. Now, compared to the people who are volunteering on "alim.org", for example, a comparison can't be made. I'm not saying this to praise him: he is not family of mine that I have some hidden agenda in saying he knows his work when it comes to Taareekh. I'm saying it because it's a fact. I disagree with him on certain things, but I regard him as reliable when it comes to Islaamic History.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    Nevertheless, let me make that correction: "I personally regard him as the most knowledgeable scholar in the field of Islaamic history that I have so far come across in the English speaking Muslim world. There may well be `Ulamaa much more knowledgeable than him in Taareekh, but I have not met them yet."

    Was-Salaam.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    Also, I am referring exclusively to the English speaking world here. Among the Arab `Ulamaa, we have the likes of Shaykh Muhammad Moosaa ash-Shareef (from Saudi Arabia), who is an ocean of knowledge in `Ilm-ut-Taareekh; I am not speaking about the Arab `Ulamaa. There are giants in the field that we don't compare to.

    It is among the English speaking Muslims and Ulema that I am speaking about.

    I thought I should clarify this so that no one misunderstands.

    mqdefault 1 - Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    (Shaykh Muhammad Moosaa ash-Shareef)
    Last edited by Huzaifah ibn Adam; 10-06-2016 at 06:12 PM.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)

    @
    Huzaifah ibn Adam

    Brother, you yourself had mentioned that ulamaa (scholars) from the Indo-Pak subcontinent like Maulana Shibli Nu`mani have mentioned the abolishing of slavery. And yet you go on to say here that we must still only accept the above scholar's claim that you have mentioned.

    As a layperson I admit to having incomplete Islamic knowledge on the subject and also knowing few scholars by reputation except those whom I've had actual cause to listen or read. However, you must understand that the claim is not originating from us laypersons or the Internet but Muslim scholars and authors (Muslim and non-Muslim); therefore, if there is confusion, it didn't originate from us laypersons and therefore either a scholarly refutation must be made in scholarly circles and a search for the origin of the claim be made in scholarly circles or we as laypersons will choose to believe what we believe and listen to those whom we already have at least some passing familiarity and/or trust.

    By the way, lol, I completely agree with you that the article on Umar was shockingly bad on alim.org; however, surely you understand that the substance of the focus should not be on the quality of the article in terms of written English language which I agree with you is very poor (shockingly so!), but the focus should on the existence of this claim that you're reiterating is invalid. I personally would suggest that you ask this scholar in question whom you've mentioned here to himself research from wherein this claim originated and why if he feels this strongly about this subject and then pen his findings in an article or book for the sake of Allah; my best wishes are with him, but I can't just accept what he's said otherwise. If there was only one Muslim or non-Muslim person saying this, I could easier understand the claim of fabrication or falsity but enough numerically persons have repeated this claim outside of the Internet and even on the Internet that this appeal to authority from this scholar's reputation doesn't facially merit the ready acceptance that you honestly seem to think it does.

    And Allah knows best.

    (And peace be upon you)
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    Respected sister,

    I did in fact ask him about it, and I am the "questioner" he's referring to in the article. I mentioned to him that people claim Hadhrat `Umar رضي الله عنه abolished slavery, and people claim that `Allaamah Shibli an-Nu`maani mentioned this, but he said Maulana Shibli Nu`maani never made such a statement, and if he did, it was misunderstood or taken out of context. That is what he clarifies in the beginning of his article.

    I think that, if Maulana Shibli an-Nu`maani had made such a claim, then he (Sulayman al-Kindi) would know about it because the books of Maulana Nu`maani are widely studied by the Indian `Ulamaa. Therefore, like he says, whoever claims that Maulana Shibli an-Nu`maani has said so, should produce the relevant passage from his books.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    (Peace be upon you)

    @Huzaifah ibn Adam

    Brother, I accept that this alim believes that what he's said is the absolute truth; however, even as I afford him the honor and respect due to an alim, I cannot owe him the appeal to authority you're making on his behalf. However, he himself should as I've said previously investigate the sources of the claim outside of the Internet in history books and also repetition by scholars and write a report; otherwise, I have to accept without evidence that others have lied or are mistaken and that I cannot and will not do without full evidence. Honestly, in the article he's written, he's frankly not done anything but accuse others of simply making things up to suit their nafs and exalted the status of slavery; that's the entire gist of his article which might seem sufficient to him but from a layperson's viewpoint is not.

    (And peace be upon you)
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    All of the books and people who are quoting it, though, are not providing a reference. Hence, even if 100 or even 200 modern day books quote it (without providing a reference), it will not become a Daleel until and unless a source and Isnaad (chain of narrators) for it can be found.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    How can anyone in their right mind not realise Islam abolished slavery? It's in the Quran, although outright abolition was not carried out during the life and times of Prophet Mhammad PBUH, mainly due to restraints in economics and the resources available. It is important to note that the preferred practice was freeing slaves and if one could not free them, to treat them equally.

    Pretty much all major Islamic scholars and many non Muslims, attribute an outright abolition of slavery to Umar RA. This isn't a story, it's a fact.

    I really doubt Huzaifahs intentions on this forum and I have expressed my unease with him in the past. He comes out with a lot of unsubstantiated stories.

    Plus, just looking into the alim that TS has posted about, he has translated certain books from Al-Waqidi, who is known somewhat for his historical knowledge but the great scholars of Islams past have outright branded him a liar when it comes to reporting hadiths.

    I'm glad most on this forum are educated enough to not take this seriously.
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    format_quote Originally Posted by Born_Believer View Post
    Pretty much all major Islamic scholars
    Name them. Who are these "major Islamic scholars"? Because the "major Islaamic scholars" in Taareekh, the likes of Imaam ibn Katheer, Imaam ibn Sa`d, Imaam ibn al-Atheer, Imaam al-Waaqidi, Imaam ibn Jareer at-Tabari, Khateeb al-Baghdaadi, etc. have not reported this. So who are these "major Islamic scholars" you are referring to? People who died yesterday? Or perhaps, are still alive right now?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Born_Believer View Post
    How can anyone in their right mind not realise Islam abolished slavery? It's in the Quran,
    Don't fabricate against the Qur'aan. Are you a Haafiz? Quote the Aayah. And don't quote an English translation, because an English translation is not the Qur'aan. Quote the Aayah (Arabic), and quote what the Mufassiroon have stated about it, with the relevant sources from their Tafaaseer.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Born_Believer View Post
    I really doubt Huzaifahs intentions on this forum and I have expressed my unease with him in the past.
    Your uneasiness is caused by Shaytaan. You hate hearing the Haqq, that's why you are uneasy. Go to my posts and prove that what I am saying is wrong according to Qur'aan and Sunnah. Any post. Show me a single thing which I have said, which contradicts Qur'aan and Sunnah, and I would be the first to retract from it. Don't give me your opinion or the opinions of modern day people. Show where what I have said contradicts any Aayah of the Qur'aan or any Hadeeth. And again, don't quote English translations; if you are bold enough to do Rudood and Munaazharah, bring the original Arabic.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Born_Believer View Post
    who is known somewhat for his historical knowledge but the great scholars of Islams past have outright branded him a liar when it comes to reporting hadiths.
    Do you even read what you post? The Kutub of his which Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi translated: are they to do with Taareekh or with Hadeeth? Futooh-ush-Shaam, Futooh Misr, Futooh al-`Iraaq; are these "Kitaabs of Hadeeth"? Do you even realise what you are saying? All of those are Kitaabs of Taareekh, and you yourself have just begrudgingly admitted Imaam al-Waaqidi's genius in the field of Taareekh. What, then, is your point?

    I doubt your intentions on this forum. I have backed up what I have said with Qur'aan and Sunnah. You have only spoken on the basis of personal opinion.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Born_Believer View Post
    He comes out with a lot of unsubstantiated stories.
    Show me these unsubstantiated stories which I have "come out with".

    ------------

    Rejection of the Haqq is from Shaytaan. It is part of Takabbur (arrogance). Thus, I will state here very clearly: If anyone can show me a single thing I have stated which opposes Qur'aan and Sunnah, I will immediately retract it. I will make an entire post stating that I retract that view. However, that view has to contradict Qur'aan and Sunnah. If it contradicts the view of modern day people, that's fine. Don't quote to me modern day people, because I am also a modern day person. Quote Aayaat Qur'aaniyyah with their Tafaaseer (classical Tafaaseer), and Kutub of Hadeeth with their Shuroohaat (classical Shurooh, not books written yesterday).

    Was-Salaam.
    Last edited by Huzaifah ibn Adam; 10-12-2016 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Merged multiple consecutive posts
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    If I want,can I free a slave women then go on and marry her?..
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al Sultan View Post
    If I want,can I free a slave women then go on and marry her?..
    You'd first need to have such a girl in order to free her. But yes, if you did, you could then marry her.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    What do you mean "such a girl" and also,I don't see anything wrong with the line "Islam is the first religion to raise its voice against slavery" as in to stop it harmfully and treat the slaves with kindness and just and many other things..don't you think ?
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al Sultan View Post
    What do you mean "such a girl" and also,I don't see anything wrong with the line "Islam is the first religion to raise its voice against slavery" as in to stop it harmfully and treat the slaves with kindness and just and many other things..don't you think ?
    Meaning a slave woman to free.

    Yes, used in that context, it is correct.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    Okay,also,this is a question out of the blue,but,is the entire Bible corrupted? to what you know? like in John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." but later on in the bible he said that there will come a man and he will guide you,so follow him,isnt this a contradiction? to your knowledge of course.
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    Re: Maulana Sulayman al-Kindi on Slavery

    We know from Qur'aan and Sunnah that the Bible has been corrupted. However, we do know that there are parts inside which are true and which may not have been from what was corrupted. What parts those are, we don't know. However, it doesn't matter because for us, the Qur'aan is sufficient. Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم did not want even Hadhrat `Umar ibn al-Khattaab رضي الله عنه to read the Tawraah. So which parts of the Bible are authentic isn't of concern to us.

    والله تعالى أعلم
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