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    Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

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    I've been wondering about this one for a while now. I live in the Netherlands. Recently, there has been a minor incident involving some guys handing out pamphlets that were clearly against homosexuality. They had some biblical and quanic verses to back up their position. These guys have now been arrested and will be criminally charged with inciting hatred against the LGBT community.

    So why are these Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) so fervently against homosexuality? Scientists have found strong leads suggesting that homosexuality is highly likely to be natural rather than to be a product from the environment (nature versus nurture). So that begs the question: why would God in all his infinite wisdom and knowledge knowingly create a homosexual only to condemn him or her later? Ask yourself how much sense that makes?

    I know about the story of Lot (Loet in Islam) and the city of Sodom and Gomorra being destroyed because of the rampant homosexuality. But is this really a good argument to treat someone bad? Can anyone give me one good rational reason to be against homosexuality?
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post

    So why are these Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) so fervently against homosexuality? Scientists have found strong leads suggesting that homosexuality is highly likely to be natural rather than to be a product from the environment (nature versus nurture).
    Scientists find many things only to be proven wrong time after time as more evidence and research comes into play down the road. We are not bound by finite knowledge and reasoning of man.

    So that begs the question: why would God in all his infinite wisdom and knowledge knowingly create a homosexual only to condemn him or her later? Ask yourself how much sense that makes?
    This is based on your first statement being a fact, which it is not. Studies can be curtailed to any way you want them, depending on who is funding it and what the motive is. God in his infinite wisdom warned the people of this sinful abomination and punished the people like none before them to set an example. It doesn't make sense to you because you are putting man's knowledge before God's.

    I know about the story of Lot (Loet in Islam) and the city of Sodom and Gomorra being destroyed because of the rampant homosexuality. But is this really a good argument to treat someone bad?
    I think the story requires a revisit to the Quranic verses in question. Maybe you didn't see the answer in there.

    “And (remember) Loot (Lot), when he said to his people: ‘Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the ‘Aalameen (mankind and jinn)?

    81. ‘Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins).’

    82. And the answer of his people was only that they said: ‘Drive them out of your town, these are indeed men who want to be pure (from sins)!’

    83. Then We saved him and his family, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind (in the torment).
    84. And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). Then see what was the end of the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists and sinners)”
    [al-A’raaf 7:80-84]

    “Verily, by your life (O Muhammad), in their wild intoxication, they were wandering blindly.
    73. So As‑Saihah (torment — awful cry) overtook them at the time of sunrise.
    74. And We turned (the towns of Sodom in Palestine) upside down and rained down on them stones of baked clay.
    75. Surely, in this are signs for those who see (or understand or learn the lessons from the Signs of Allaah).

    76. And verily, they (the cities) were right on the highroad (from Makkah to Syria, i.e. the place where the Dead Sea is now)”
    [al-Hijr 15:72-76]




    Can anyone give me one good rational reason to be against homosexuality?
    Because God said so isn't rational enough for you?

    as to why it is forbidden, check here: https://islamqa.info/en/10050
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Firstly, Islam differentiates between homosexual behaviour and having homosexual thoughts. The first is punishable and the second is not, it is a Jihad to fight these thoughts. God created man with the fitrah (natural disposition), and all Wisdom is with Him, we have but very little knowledge. We all fight our own battles, and ultimately the purpose of living in this world is to attain Paradise by obeying Allah and His Messenger, by sacrifice and struggle.

    Why would God create homosexuals is like asking why would He create rapists, murderers, oppressive rulers, abuse of all kind (physical, mental, verbal). The list never ends and it is not a logical argument. We don't have even an atom's weight of God's Wisdom. What we are prescribed is for our own good, to attain Paradise, which is our true home. This world has good and evil, and God created it with His Wisdom. Without evil, there would be no concept of good whatsoever. And without evil, this world would be Paradise, which defeats the purpose of it to begin with.

    Homosexuality goes against the fitrah. It is shameful, immoral, and has brought countless diseases to mankind, AIDS being just one of them. It causes great harm to the individual, the people who surround him/her, and society.

    As you requested, I will not bring up the argument of the people of Lot (peace be upon him).

    As for your claim that they are treated "badly".. Openly committing homosexual acts is shameful and unnatural, and the one who commits them should be punished. But Allah says:
    "And the two persons among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent (promise Allah that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Forgiving (the One Who forgives and accepts repentance), (and He is) Most Merciful" Quran 4:16

    This verse refers to fornication and homosexuality. Allah knows best.

    Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "... cursed is the one who has intercourse with an animal, cursed is the one who does the action of the people of Lot."

    What we are prescribed to do (or not to do) is good for our souls and never is Allah unjust. He is the Most Wise, and the Most Just. And we hear and we obey.

    Allah knows best.
    Last edited by Delete.; 10-21-2016 at 09:46 PM.
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    Scientists find many things only to be proven wrong time after time as more evidence and research comes into play down the road. We are not bound by finite knowledge and reasoning of man.
    Yes, that can certainly be the case. But you do realise that as time went by and more research was done, the evidence supporting the view that homosexuality is natural only got stronger right?
    Yeah, our knowledge is finite. But the only way to increase our understanding of this world and the universe is through science. You claim not to be bound by this. So what makes you so much more superior to others then? What do you have that scientist apparently don't?



    Quote Originally Posted by islamirama View Post
    Because God said so isn't rational enough for you?
    Where is the evidence that this is the word of God? Reality is that the religious have yet to prove God's existence, let alone that the Quran is his word. So this argument is certainly not convincing enough for me to condemn people for the way they are.
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by ___ View Post
    Firstly, Islam differentiates between homosexual behaviour and having homosexual thoughts. The first is punishable and the second is not, it is a Jihad to fight these thoughts.
    But surely you realise that one is the logical consequence of the other. I'm a heterosexual for example (and I assume you are too). I am sexually attracted to the opposite sex. As a consequence of this I want to have sexual intercourse with women from time to time. Don't you think it is extremely hypocritical to say that sex for heterosexuals (within marriage, I'm aware of that otherwise it's zina) is allowed, however it's not for homosexuals? What is the key difference between the two then? Intercourse is intercourse right?



    Quote Originally Posted by ___ View Post
    Homosexuality goes against the fitrah. It is shameful, immoral, and has brought countless diseases to mankind, AIDS being just one of them. It causes great harm to the individual, the people who surround him/her, and society.
    What is so immoral about it? Don't you think that actively condemning it based on no good rational reason whatsoever is much more immoral than homosexuality is? You can catch AIDS from a siringe and guess what? Heterosexual sex is also harmful to one's health if practised unsafely. And what great harm does homosexuality cause to society? It's not a terrorist organisation now is it?
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    Where is the evidence that this is the word of God? Reality is that the religious have yet to prove God's existence, let alone that the Quran is his word. So this argument is certainly not convincing enough for me to condemn people for the way they are.
    The evidence is the Qur'an, it absolutely could not have been written by Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) let alone any human on the face of the Earth at that time, because of the knowledge it contains of the future (which science actually agrees with now), and the reaffirmation of previous knowledge that was unknown to anyone in the Arabian peninsula at that time. To this day, no one has been able to recreate anything like it, from the very detailed set of Laws, to the knowledge that no human on Earth had (scientists are just now starting to discover things that the Qur'an already stated, which were impossible to know at that time because of the inability to travel in space or perform in depth medical procedures yet it is all stated in the Qur'an), everything about the Qur'an is evidence that it is God's Word. It was compiled over 23 years with zero contradictions.

    You can disagree with the Laws, homosexuality, punishments, etc. But if you are truly being rational, you cannot deny it is the Word of God.

    The language of the Qur'an is evidence in itself because there was absolutely no one who could argue it's miraculousness so it was declared by the unbelievers as "magic". They themselves had no argument against the Qur'an except this one, and they lived in that time!

    Allah knows best.
    Last edited by Delete.; 10-21-2016 at 10:37 PM.
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    But surely you realise that one is the logical consequence of the other. I'm a heterosexual for example (and I assume you are too). I am sexually attracted to the opposite sex. As a consequence of this I want to have sexual intercourse with women from time to time. Don't you think it is extremely hypocritical to say that sex for heterosexuals (within marriage, I'm aware of that otherwise it's zina) is allowed, however it's not for homosexuals? What is the key difference between the two then? Intercourse is intercourse right?
    No, incorrect. You seemed to have missed my whole first argument! It's not hypocritical at all because like the punishment for homosexuality, there is a punishment for zina. The key difference between the two, logically, is that sex between man and women is natural, and homosexuality is not. (Refer to my first argument as I have explained all of this.)

    What is so immoral about it? Don't you think that actively condemning it based on no good rational reason whatsoever is much more immoral than homosexuality is? You can catch AIDS from a siringe and guess what? Heterosexual sex is also harmful to one's health if practised unsafely. And what great harm does homosexuality cause to society? It's not a terrorist organisation now is it?
    We are commanded to forbid all evil, and enjoin what is good. Homosexuality is an evil (because of what I explained to you in my first argument). It goes against the fitrah of humans, it has clear consequences (physically and mentally) to not just the people committing the sin, but society as a whole. AIDS, HIV, and if you want to bring science into it: Science has proven that homosexual couples have a shorter lifespan than their heterosexual counterparts, child molestation is higher for homosexual adults compared to heterosexual, children raised in a homosexual home experience more problems (proved by science experiments), science has also proved that the media plays a huge role in people's homosexual tendencies (going back to your "born gay" theory), homosexual sex is linked to dangerous behaviour (use of weapons, drugs, etc), and if that's not enough, you can't reproduce by having homosexual relations. This in itself is enough to prove that it is not natural. And if you'd like to know more of the dangerous effects of homosexuality on society then I am sure you can find them on Google with a quick search!

    Side note: I saw your subtle slip of mentioning terrorism and I'd like to kindly inform you that Islam condemns terrorism of all sorts.

    Allah knows best.

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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    Intercourse is intercourse right?

    Not with men kid,that leads to AIDs,lol you never knew that??!!

    It's because God made women for us,to see who will follow the rules,and who will not,as simple as that.

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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    So why are these Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) so fervently against homosexuality? Scientists have found strong leads suggesting that homosexuality is highly likely to be natural rather than to be a product from the environment (nature versus nurture).
    So are you saying that homosexuals are born gay? I don't think there's clear evidence that supports this completely. I'm from the opinion that suggests that sexuality is indeed a spectrum, and humans in general can have tendencies towards the same sex if they wanted to or are seduced in that way. If there is clear evidence that they are born this way, then it should be considered a disease since it is not "normal" and if they are not, then they can find ways to control their desires.


    So that begs the question: why would God in all his infinite wisdom and knowledge knowingly create a homosexual only to condemn him or her later? Ask yourself how much sense that makes?
    It makes sense because God is infinite in wisdom and knowledge. You cannot understand it, or it does not make sense to you because you are not infinitely knowledgable or wise.
    You can pretty much ask this question in regards to anything that you disagree with. In life, we are tested in different ways. Homosexual desires is just one of the ways some people are tested.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    But is this really a good argument to treat someone bad? Can anyone give me one good rational reason to be against homosexuality?
    In what ways have you seen homosexuals being treated badly by Muslims?

    We don't pick and choose what we want to follow out of our religion, otherwise we are creating our own belief system. Sexuality in of itself in Islam is meant to be a private matter. Women and men both have to lower their gazes and protect themselves from unlawful sex. If someone wants to be a homosexual, that's on him, but there's no reason to publicize it and make it a huge ordeal as is being done. We are now living in such a debauchery where everything has to be driven through sexual innuendos, pornography, immodest behavior, homosexuality, etc. and people want to make the argument that "it's not harming anyone physically" but what about spiritually or psychologically? Yes homosexuality is being used as a driving force to make a hypersexual society normal. Homosexuality is a sexual deviancy just as much as pedophilia, affecting a small percentage of the population, but because "society" has to be sensitive to the issue of homosexuality, it is no longer considered as such.
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    Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Someone asked Hassan Al Basri: "What is the secret of your piety?"
    He replied: I understood 4 things:


    I understood that my rizq cannot be taken by anyone, so my heart became content.
    I understood that no one can do my actions (worship) for me, so I started doing them myself.
    I understood that Allah is watching me, so I became ashamed to do wrong.
    I understood that death is waiting for me, so I started to prepare for my meeting with Allah.

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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?
    Because it is a tenet of Islam.
    Why are atheists, liberals etc. So fanatically against men having sex with their horse? Or "under age sex"? And other so called "paraphilias"? If homosexuality is ok, shouldn't it be just anything goes? What are all these prudish hang ups then?
    Can't you see your hypocrisy?

    BTW I am not into horses, but just trying to make a point.
    Last edited by Karl; 10-22-2016 at 02:32 AM.
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    And then when western morals decline even further i wouldnt be surprised if we get someone coming on here and going "Why is Islam so against incest"
    homosexuality is a perversion from the shaitaan



    Dont blame me for being a homophobe, i was born that way
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    Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    worship the creator not the creation


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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Some scientists have revealed their studies and claim that also pedophilia is "a nature rather than to be a product from the environment". By their studies, pedophiles born to be pedophiles. Should we then accept it as "normal", change the laws and stop discriminations against them? Only few decades ago homosexuality was crime and sickness in the most of the western countries. Do we now need to wait few more decades before some groups start to demand equality and rights for them too? (And make accusations against religions as they still are so old-fashion that they don´t accept such natural features.)

    What might be next the perversity of the human mind which will become "natural" by some liberal scientists? Maybe an anthropophagy?
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    Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    Can anyone give me one good rational reason to be against homosexuality?
    The best reason you will be given is "God says so". But when people violently attack homosexuals and use the Qur'an and ahadith to justify their actions, you will be told that this has nothing to do with Islam.

    Peace

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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,



    The best reason you will be given is "God says so". But when people violently attack homosexuals and use the Qur'an and ahadith to justify their actions, you will be told that this has nothing to do with Islam.

    Peace
    That´s correct. The God doesn´t says to us to violently attack against other people but guide them to leave their bad habits and avoid the sins.
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    Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,



    The best reason you will be given is "God says so". But when people violently attack homosexuals and use the Qur'an and ahadith to justify their actions, you will be told that this has nothing to do with Islam.

    Peace
    Peace. The best answer for any question regarding Islam is "Allah says so" for sure no matter for what subject it is. This is just like a child refusing a stranger and saying because my father/mother says so. However, there is a wisdom in every commendment, encouragement and prohibition of Allah.

    So you think people using Quran and Hadith for their actions neccesarily mean those actions have a real base in these sources? People sometimes interpret the same verses with very different ways and act very differently. This is why we see different madhabs in Islam. The essential point here is to understand the basic and ultimate message of Islam and approach these incidents with this understanding.
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    Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    You harvest what you sow.

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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    If you didn't know,the homosexuals who had sex will be questioned if they meant or not,if they SINCERELY said they couldn't control their desires and tell the truth,they will be forgiven,it says in the hadith,i forgot it though,but if he doesn't say the truth and says something like "Hey I do what I want ok?" both of them will be hurt.


    Peace
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    So why are these Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) so fervently against homosexuality? Can anyone give me one good rational reason to be against homosexuality?
    The legitimacy of sex is ultimately vested in the fact that it is required for the reproduction from generation to generation. As soon as it gets treated as just another form of entertainment, the entire behavioural pattern around sex and reproduction quickly becomes untenable. That is also, for example, what the feminists complain about. The sacrifices demanded from women are too high. We can only counter that feminist argument by asserting that these sacrifices are required for successful reproduction from generation to generation. The entire edifice of humanity, and actually of life itself, rests on the fact that reproduction is an overruling concern. Hence, it is not possible to legitimize or otherwise endorse sexual behaviour that is completely divorced from reproduction, and that would just be some form of entertainment.

    The concern of reproduction is itself, however, not -- or barely -- rational.

    Indeed, why would anybody care whether a next generation will be around, when we will be gone already? Still, we are all descendants of people who made the otherwise irrational choice to spend effort to launch the next generation. Most of your own ancestors are today dead already. So, what difference would it make to them? Why did they spend so much effort raising the children who raised their own children, and turtles all the way down, ultimately ourselves? In other words, we only exist for reasons that are simply irrational. These reasons do not have a rational but only possibly a metaphysical explanation.

    So, yes, reproduction from generation to generation must have some kind of sacred purpose, and religion overrules individual preferences on those grounds. In that sense, I do not endorse the behaviour of people in the LGBT community.

    Concerning the act of arresting and criminally charging with inciting hatred against the LGBT community, the people doing the arresting and criminally charging will at some point have to prove that they are willing to risk their lives and die for what their believe in. That will be a moment of truth. They very well know that this moment cannot be eternally delayed. At same time, we can rationally suspect that this proof will remain elusive.
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    This video will answer your question, the speaker specifically uses homosexuality as an example, in the first 11 minutes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReboWgK3VnM

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    I've been wondering about this one for a while now. I live in the Netherlands. Recently, there has been a minor incident involving some guys handing out pamphlets that were clearly against homosexuality. They had some biblical and quanic verses to back up their position. These guys have now been arrested and will be criminally charged with inciting hatred against the LGBT community.

    So why are these Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) so fervently against homosexuality? Scientists have found strong leads suggesting that homosexuality is highly likely to be natural rather than to be a product from the environment (nature versus nurture). So that begs the question: why would God in all his infinite wisdom and knowledge knowingly create a homosexual only to condemn him or her later? Ask yourself how much sense that makes?

    I know about the story of Lot (Loet in Islam) and the city of Sodom and Gomorra being destroyed because of the rampant homosexuality. But is this really a good argument to treat someone bad? Can anyone give me one good rational reason to be against homosexuality?

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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

    Quote Originally Posted by czgibson View Post
    Greetings,

    The best reason you will be given is "God says so".
    In metaphysical terms, that is indeed the best reason. And when we come to the question of metaphysics, I have already told you previously that the thing to understand is not why "God say so" but to investigate if there is a God.

    But when people violently attack homosexuals and use the Qur'an and ahadith to justify their actions, you will be told that this has nothing to do with Islam.

    Peace
    You have have taken a jab at us with the last line even though you've ended the post with the word "[p]eace." That's not fair or honest, is it?

    Let me explain in terms you'd understand or at least I hope so as you're in a teaching position.

    Let's say you go into a classroom on the first day and say the following words to your elementary school fourth-grade students, "I welcome you to my classroom and expect that you are all bright young pupils. Since I know that you are all bright, I expect all of you to use that gift of intelligence to work hard. I do not want any of you to get a failing grade because I know that none of you are 'stupid'"—"but having said that, I also realize that none of you are perfect. I will work with you in any capacity you need me to but I expect in turn that you know that I will not give you a grade that you don't deserve. If you fail, you will fail on your own merit. If you do excellent, you will achieve that excellence on your merit. My hope is that all of you achieve excellence in my classroom and that you hold one another as peers accountable to achieving that collective excellence in my classroom."

    There's Pupil X in your classroom, who, on a midterm, scores a failing grade. Now, when Pupil X was on the bus, he took out his paper to see how he could have done so badly that he failed. Pupil Z saw him take out that paper and smiled to himself. So, the next day, during recess hour, Pupil Z on the playground said out loud to the playground, "X is stupid. He's so stupid he failed the midterm." Then, Pupil Z pushed Pupil X into the ground and kicked him to the chants of his friends saying, "Stupid, stupid, stupid."

    Now, I have a couple of questions for you.
    1. Is what you said in the first day of your classroom responsible for what happened to Pupil X?
    2. Did Pupil Z follow your instruction?
    3. Should you have not said anything about failure at all?
    4. Are you sadistic for talking about your expectations of your classroom pupils?

    Just generally, however, I'd like to ask one more thing in another scenario not related to the first one at all:
    Say you've been teaching for 20 years. If, tomorrow, you read in the papers one of your high school students committed a heinous murder and his defense is that you are responsible for that murder because that the book you assigned him in the classroom called Catcher in the Rye by J. D. Salinger had an adverse psychological effect on him. Is your reaction ever, "I and this book should be tried in the court of public opinion for the moral and psychological failing of my student in committing a murder!" Or do you say to yourself and the public and the courtroom if need be: "Actions of people are their own individual responsibility and shifting of any blame is inexcusable."

    Wishing you good judgment because I already know you're intelligent,
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    Re: Why is Islam so much against homosexuality?

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by Search View Post
    You have have taken a jab at us with the last line even though you've ended the post with the word "[p]eace." That's not fair or honest, is it?
    I am reporting what happens whenever this issue arises. There is nothing dishonest in what I have written. I hope for peace, and stand in opposition to religiously justified violence.

    My hope is that all of you achieve excellence in my classroom and that you hold one another as peers accountable to achieving that collective excellence in my classroom.
    This is a stupid thing for a teacher to say. Pupils can encourage each other, but holding each other "accountable" is too much temptation for a bully.

    1. Is what you said in the first day of your classroom responsible for what happened to Pupil X?
    2. Did Pupil Z follow your instruction?
    3. Should you have not said anything about failure at all?
    4. Are you sadistic for talking about your expectations of your classroom pupils?
    1. Partly, yes.
    2. Yes.
    3. Not necessarily.
    4. No.

    Is your reaction ever, "I and this book should be tried in the court of public opinion for the moral and psychological failing of my student in committing a murder!" Or do you say to yourself and the public and the courtroom if need be: "Actions of people are their own individual responsibility and shifting of any blame is inexcusable."
    Although I don't think those are the only two possible reactions, I would tend towards the former. The Catcher In The Rye is a book that depressed adolescents may identify with, but it certainly does not directly encourage murder, and I think a court would see that clearly.

    When IS shout "Allahu Akbar" and then throw a homosexual off a tall building, how do you analyse the behaviour of the crowd of people watching and then throwing stones at the dead body after it hits the ground? It's no longer individual behaviour at that stage, and as a group they feel justified in their collective action. To say this has nothing whatever to do with Islam is to ignore the obvious facts of the situation.

    Peace
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