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Thread: Salah

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    fathima stark's Avatar
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    Salah

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    I need brief and correct method to do salah for women...pls anybody help me...

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    Re: Salah

    assalamualikum wr wb

    i think there is a difference of opinion between madhabi's and salafi's on this but the former say womens salah is different from men; just a little in order for their body postures to be more less protuding; here is a link with all details:

    http://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa-birmingham/19580

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    Re: Salah


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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by fathima stark View Post
    I need brief and correct method to do salah for women...pls anybody help me...
    There's no difference in the way of Salah between that of a man and women. Those scholars who made differences solely based on their own personal understanding and there is simply no Hadith to back it up.
    Rather if you look in the Hadith, the Prophet clearly said "Pray as you see me pray". And he never made a difference between a man's Salah and a woman's Salah. Hence there is no difference in the way a man and woman should pray.
    For more details on how to pray, you can check this book of Sheikh Nasiruddin Albani: "The Prophet's Prayer".
    This book has all the Sahih Hadith compiled and explained about each part of Salah, and the method is same for Men and Women. Hope this helps.
    Salah

    When you look at life from a different perspective; you'll realise, how blessed you are!

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    azc's Avatar
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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by BarışEkinci View Post

    ما يفارق المرأة فيه الرجل من أحكأم الصلاة راجع إلى الستر


    Translation: The “distinction” in ruling regarding prayer of men and women is that the woman prays in a way which is more “CONCEALING" for her [Al-Bayhaqi in As-Sunnan al Kubra (2/222)]
    1 | Likes noraina liked this post
    Salah

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    AbdullahAziz's Avatar
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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by shafat10 View Post
    There's no difference in the way of Salah between that of a man and women. Those scholars who made differences solely based on their own personal understanding and there is simply no Hadith to back it up.
    Rather if you look in the Hadith, the Prophet clearly said "Pray as you see me pray". And he never made a difference between a man's Salah and a woman's Salah. Hence there is no difference in the way a man and woman should pray.
    For more details on how to pray, you can check this book of Sheikh Nasiruddin Albani: "The Prophet's Prayer".
    This book has all the Sahih Hadith compiled and explained about each part of Salah, and the method is same for Men and Women. Hope this helps.


    you say there is no hadith to back up those 'opinions' please see link; plenty of hadith there!

    https://www.central-mosque.com/index...and-women.html
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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by shafat10 View Post
    There's no difference in the way of Salah between that of a man and women. Those scholars who made differences solely based on their own personal understanding and there is simply no Hadith to back it up.
    Rather if you look in the Hadith, the Prophet clearly said "Pray as you see me pray". And he never made a difference between a man's Salah and a woman's Salah. Hence there is no difference in the way a man and woman should pray.
    For more details on how to pray, you can check this book of Sheikh Nasiruddin Albani: "The Prophet's Prayer".
    This book has all the Sahih Hadith compiled and explained about each part of Salah, and the method is same for Men and Women. Hope this helps.
    Why you didn't quote full hadith.?

    See it.

    18)Chapter: If there are many travellers, Adhan and Iqama should be pronounced, (the same is to be observed) in 'Arafat and Al-Muzdalifa too(18)باب الأَذَانِ لِلْمُسَافِرِ إِذَا كَانُوا جَمَاعَةً، وَالإِقَامَةِ، وَكَذَلِكَ بِعَرَفَةَ وَجَمْعٍ
    وَقَوْلِ الْمُؤَذِّنِ الصَّلاَةُ فِي الرِّحَالِ‏.‏ فِي اللَّيْلَةِ الْبَارِدَةِ أَوِ الْمَطِيرَةِ
    Narrated Malik:
    We came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and stayed with him for twenty days and nights. We were all young and of about the same age. The Prophet (ﷺ) was very kind and merciful. When he realized our longing for our families, he asked about our homes and the people there and we told him. Then he asked us to go back to our families and stay with them and teach them (the religion) and to order them to do good things. He also mentioned some other things which I have (remembered or [??] ) forgotten. The Prophet (ﷺ) then added, "Pray as you have seen me praying and when it is the time for the prayer one of you should pronounce the Adhan and the oldest of you should lead the prayer.
    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْوَهَّابِ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَيُّوبُ، عَنْ أَبِي قِلاَبَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا مَالِكٌ، أَتَيْنَا إِلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَنَحْنُ شَبَبَةٌ مُتَقَارِبُونَ، فَأَقَمْنَا عِنْدَهُ عِشْرِينَ يَوْمًا وَلَيْلَةً، وَكَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم رَحِيمًا رَفِيقًا، فَلَمَّا ظَنَّ أَنَّا قَدِ اشْتَهَيْنَا أَهْلَنَا أَوْ قَدِ اشْتَقْنَا سَأَلَنَا عَمَّنْ تَرَكْنَا بَعْدَنَا فَأَخْبَرْنَاهُ قَالَ ‏ "‏ ارْجِعُوا إِلَى أَهْلِيكُمْ فَأَقِيمُوا فِيهِمْ وَعَلِّمُوهُمْ وَمُرُوهُمْ ـ وَذَكَرَ أَشْيَاءَ أَحْفَظُهَا أَوْ لاَ أَحْفَظُهَا ـ وَصَلُّوا كَمَا رَأَيْتُمُونِي أُصَلِّي، فَإِذَا حَضَرَتِ الصَّلاَةُ فَلْيُؤَذِّنْ لَكُمْ أَحَدُكُمْ وَلْيَؤُمَّكُمْ أَكْبَرُكُمْ ‏"‏‏.‏
    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 631
    In-book reference : Book 10, Hadith 28
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 11, Hadith 604

    When you've quoted this hadith then why you don't apply all the instructions of the hadith on woman?

    e.g.

    Why women are stopped from calling adhan and leading the salah.?


    Apply this hadith equally on both genders. Otherwise no point in referring this hadith.


    Reality is that this hadith is addressed to men. The group which stayed for twenty days in madina had no female member. RasulAllah Allah s.a.w. specifically instructed to them to pray as they saw Him pray.
    Last edited by azc; 05-05-2017 at 02:14 AM.
    Salah

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    shafat10's Avatar
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    Re: Salah

    I don't think there's any reason to twist the Hadith by saying it is for a specific time and so on. There is certainly differences in the way they pray because one is male and one is female. The dress the wear, the way the Jamah is to be done is different and that's mentioned in the Hadith and that's what you are talking about. Am not saying about these, there is no apparent difference in the way prayed, that's what I said. No posture changes and so on as some scholars said. There's no Hadith to back those up, there's no authentic Hadith and neither any female Sahabiat mentioned any such thing ever. These all differences were added later on after doing researches. If you want to follow researches, good for you. Am interested in researches when there's no Hadith on that matter, but if there is Hadith, then I don't go for researches. Hope this helps.
    Salah

    When you look at life from a different perspective; you'll realise, how blessed you are!

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    azc's Avatar
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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by shafat10 View Post
    I don't think there's any reason to twist the Hadith by saying it is for a specific time and so on. There is certainly differences in the way they pray because one is male and one is female. The dress the wear, the way the Jamah is to be done is different and that's mentioned in the Hadith and that's what you are talking about. Am not saying about these, there is no apparent difference in the way prayed, that's what I said. No posture changes and so on as some scholars said. There's no Hadith to back those up, there's no authentic Hadith and neither any female Sahabiat mentioned any such thing ever. These all differences were added later on after doing researches. If you want to follow researches, good for you. Am interested in researches when there's no Hadith on that matter, but if there is Hadith, then I don't go for researches. Hope this helps.
    Don't you see all the posters disagree with you.

    What I wrote you couldn't address it properly.

    See post #6.

    Problem is that you leave the established opinion of classical scholars and imams, and follow modern age scholars.
    Last edited by azc; 05-05-2017 at 08:52 AM.
    Salah

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Salah

    Wa alaykum assalam,

    While the overall way to read salah for men and women is the same, there are slight differences relating to modesty. Within Islam, men and women are equal in all matter of religion except for when there is specific daleel or evidence saying otherwise,

    Obviously, women do not read the adhaan or iqamah, and they were the full hijab. And, also, in all of the various postures, such as ruku or sujood, she should keep herself more 'concealed' and her limbs close to her body, and not spread out, as this is more modest and covering. It makes sense and is far from unreasonable, and to be honest there is a general consensus on this point.
    Salah

    Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, Thabbit Qalbi Ala Deenik
    Oh turner of the Hearts make my heart firm on Your Deen







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    azc's Avatar
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    Re: Salah

    Women do not have to give adhaan or iqaamah, because adhaan requires raising the voice, which women are not permitted to do. Ibn Qudaamah, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: "We know of no difference between the scholars (on this point)." (Al-Mughni ma’a al-Sharh al-Kabeer, 1/438).

    All of the woman’s body is ‘awrah and must be covered during prayer, except for her face, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "No prayer will be accepted from an adult woman unless she wears a khimaar (head-cover). (Reported by the five Muhadditheen) There is some dispute as to whether her heels and feet should be covered.

    The author of al-Mughni (2/328) said: "As for the rest of the free woman’s body, it must be covered during prayer. If any part becomes uncovered, it renders her prayer invalid, except if only a little bit is uncovered. Maalik, al-Oozaa’i and al-Shaafi’i said the same.
    The woman should keep her limbs close to her body during rukoo’ and sujood, and not spread them out, because this is more modest and covering. (Al-Mughni 2/258).

    Al-Nawawi said: "Al-Shaafi’i said, in al-Mukhtasar: there is no difference between men and women in prayer, except that women should keep the parts of their bodies close to one another, and they should make their stomachs touch their thighs during sujood. This is more covering and preferable, in rukoo’ and the rest of the prayer too." (See al-Majmoo’ 3/429).

    It is preferable for women to pray in congregation, led by one of their number, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told Umm Waraqah to lead the women of her household in prayer. There is some difference among scholars on this matter. (See al-Mughni, 2/202 and al-Majmoo’ al-Nawawi, 4/84-85).

    The woman leading the prayer should read aloud as long as no non-mahram man can hear her.
    It is permissible for women to go out and pray in the mosque with men, although their prayer at home is better for them, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Do not prevent the women from going out to the mosques, even though their homes are better for them."
    Salah

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Salah

    As far as body postures are concerned, there is actually no Hadith to back that up. Some scholars said that when you do Sujood, female should touch the ground and stay close to it. That's not correct, am sorry.
    Anas (Radia-Allaahu ‘anhu) narrated, describing the way the Prophet -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) used to offer the Salat: “He (the Prophet (Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam)) would not rest his forearms on the ground.” [al-Bukhari and Abu Dawoud] In another narration: “He -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) would raise them above the ground, and keep them away from his sides such that the whiteness of his armpits could be seen from behind.” [al-Bukhari and Muslim] And also: “Such that if a small lamb or kid wanted to pass under his arms, it would have been able to do so.” [Muslim].
    The Prophet -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) would do this to such an extent that one of his Companions (Radia-Allaahu ‘anhum) said: “We used to feel sorry for the Messenger of Allah -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) because of the way he kept his hands away from his sides.” [Abu Dawoud, Abu ‘Awaanah and Ibn Hibban].
    He -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) used to order likewise, saying: “When you perform Sajdah, place your palms (on the ground) and raise your elbows.” [Muslim] And: “Be level in Sujood, and none of you should spread his forearms like the spreading of a dog.” (in one narration: “… like a dog spreads them.”) [al-Bukhari and Muslim] In a separate Hadith: “None of you should rest his arms on the ground the way a dog rests them.” [Ahmad and at-Tirmidhi]

    So this is not my words, it's the Prophet's Hadith.
    You need to understand one thing, that if a Sahih Hadith is found on one topic, then there's no requirement of further Ijtihad on that. The Hadith is enough. If you have no Hadith, then you do Ijtihad and fine out the probable answer. So yah, the Prophet PBUH said not to go in to Sujood in that manner, so why will I go? I am bound to follow the Prophet.

    It's as simple as that.

    And ya, it doesn't matter who agrees with me and who doesn't. It's not my words, it the Sahih Hadith. So if someone is not interested in Hadith of the Prophet, then that's solely their personal problem, not mine.
    Salah

    When you look at life from a different perspective; you'll realise, how blessed you are!

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    azc's Avatar
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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by shafat10 View Post
    As far as body postures are concerned, there is actually no Hadith to back that up. Some scholars said that when you do Sujood, female should touch the ground and stay close to it. That's not correct, am sorry.
    Anas (Radia-Allaahu ‘anhu) narrated, describing the way the Prophet -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) used to offer the Salat: “He (the Prophet (Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam)) would not rest his forearms on the ground.” [al-Bukhari and Abu Dawoud] In another narration: “He -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) would raise them above the ground, and keep them away from his sides such that the whiteness of his armpits could be seen from behind.” [al-Bukhari and Muslim] And also: “Such that if a small lamb or kid wanted to pass under his arms, it would have been able to do so.” [Muslim].
    The Prophet -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) would do this to such an extent that one of his Companions (Radia-Allaahu ‘anhum) said: “We used to feel sorry for the Messenger of Allah -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) because of the way he kept his hands away from his sides.” [Abu Dawoud, Abu ‘Awaanah and Ibn Hibban].
    He -(Salla-Allaahu alaihi wa sallam) used to order likewise, saying: “When you perform Sajdah, place your palms (on the ground) and raise your elbows.” [Muslim] And: “Be level in Sujood, and none of you should spread his forearms like the spreading of a dog.” (in one narration: “… like a dog spreads them.”) [al-Bukhari and Muslim] In a separate Hadith: “None of you should rest his arms on the ground the way a dog rests them.” [Ahmad and at-Tirmidhi]

    So this is not my words, it's the Prophet's Hadith.
    You need to understand one thing, that if a Sahih Hadith is found on one topic, then there's no requirement of further Ijtihad on that. The Hadith is enough. If you have no Hadith, then you do Ijtihad and fine out the probable answer. So yah, the Prophet PBUH said not to go in to Sujood in that manner, so why will I go? I am bound to follow the Prophet.

    It's as simple as that.

    And ya, it doesn't matter who agrees with me and who doesn't. It's not my words, it the Sahih Hadith. So if someone is not interested in Hadith of the Prophet, then that's solely their personal problem, not mine.
    It should be known to you that classical imams and scholars were aware of such ahadith.

    You see the issue superficially.

    Anyways, keep adhering to your modern age scholars.
    Salah

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz View Post


    you say there is no hadith to back up those 'opinions' please see link; plenty of hadith there!

    https://www.central-mosque.com/index...and-women.html
    That websites seems very unreliable. Does a scholar or a layman run it?

    Let's look at one hadith he has posted which actually deals with the issue of prayer and is not a general hadith he is trying to use:

    Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) has clearly differentiated between the sitting posture of men and women in salat.

    عن عبد الله بن عمر قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إذا جلست المرأة في الصلوة وضعت فخذها على فخذها الاخرى وإذا سجدت الصقت بطنها في فخذيها كالستر ما يكون لها وان الله تعالى ينظر إليها ويقول يا ملائكتى اشهدكم انى قد غفرت لها
    Abdullah Bin Umar (radiyallaahu anhu) reports that the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said: "When a women sits in salaat, she should place the thighs of one leg upon the thighs of the other and when she makes sajda, she should attach her belly to her thigh so that it is as concealing as possible, for indeed Allah Ta'ala looks at her saying: 'O my angels, I make you witness that I have indeed forgiven her". (Al-Baihaqi, vol 2, pg 223, Idara Al-Taleefaat)


    Let me put forth what scholars have said about that hadith.

    al-BayhaQi said:

    ضعيف لا يحتج بمثله

    Weak, evidence is not established with the likes of it.

    The very Imaam who recorded the narration is calling it weak.

    I wonder why the author of the website omitted that fact.

    al-BayhaQi reports two narrators in it who are weak

    أبو مطيع

    and

    عطاء بن عجلان


    He says they are weak.

    Perhaps the author of the website should learn first and then make Wordpress blogs. May Allaah guide him.

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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    It should be known to you that classical imams and scholars were aware of such ahadith.

    You see the issue superficially.

    Anyways, keep adhering to your modern age scholars.

    You seem to get frustrated when someone challenges you. That was not nice. That sounded like a mock. May Allaah guide you.

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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz View Post


    you say there is no hadith to back up those 'opinions' please see link; plenty of hadith there!

    https://www.central-mosque.com/index...and-women.html
    Finally, the author tries to respond to objections of the ahl al-Hadith but does a very poor job.

    Response:

    1 The issue of woman's salat is purely a fiqhi issue and has to be dealt with in the light of what the Fuqaha state. They were masters in understanding the meanings of the Ahadith as stated by the great Muhadith and student of Imam Bukhari, Imam Tirmizhi (rahimahullah) . The Fuqaha of all four mazhahib accept "Mursal" ahadith, but obviously with certain conditions (Athar Al-Hadith al-Shareef). Therefore, it will totally incorrect to blatantly state that "This hadeeth is mursal, which is a category of da'eef (weak)" indirectly inferring that this Hadith cannot be accepted.
    We do not wish to go into the discussion of "Mursal" ahadith, since this is not the purpose of this article. However, all the narrators of the above Hadith are reliable and there is no reason to reject it as stated in I'laau Al-Sunan (vol 3, pg 26, Idara Al-Quran)
    It is understandable why a layman would not like to get into the discussion of a Mursal hadith. Even a layman knows that the scholars of hadith consider a mursal hadith weak. And to say what he says that the rijaal of the hadith are all good while avoiding the fact it is mursal shows he is ignorant.

    He should simply admit that yes there are differences between the prayer of the two but the hadith used for it are weak. Simple. Honest. Straight to the point.

  21. #17
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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
    You seem to get frustrated when someone challenges you. That was not nice. That sounded like a mock. May Allaah guide you.
    Neither it's the matter of challenge nor of frustration. It's matter of blind following of modern age scholars.
    Salah

    Allah (swt) knows best

  22. #18
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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
    That websites seems very unreliable. Does a scholar or a layman run it?

    Let's look at one hadith he has posted which actually deals with the issue of prayer and is not a general hadith he is trying to use:

    Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) has clearly differentiated between the sitting posture of men and women in salat.

    عن عبد الله بن عمر قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إذا جلست المرأة في الصلوة وضعت فخذها على فخذها الاخرى وإذا سجدت الصقت بطنها في فخذيها كالستر ما يكون لها وان الله تعالى ينظر إليها ويقول يا ملائكتى اشهدكم انى قد غفرت لها
    Abdullah Bin Umar (radiyallaahu anhu) reports that the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said: "When a women sits in salaat, she should place the thighs of one leg upon the thighs of the other and when she makes sajda, she should attach her belly to her thigh so that it is as concealing as possible, for indeed Allah Ta'ala looks at her saying: 'O my angels, I make you witness that I have indeed forgiven her". (Al-Baihaqi, vol 2, pg 223, Idara Al-Taleefaat)


    Let me put forth what scholars have said about that hadith.

    al-BayhaQi said:

    ضعيف لا يحتج بمثله

    Weak, evidence is not established with the likes of it.

    The very Imaam who recorded the narration is calling it weak.

    I wonder why the author of the website omitted that fact.

    al-BayhaQi reports two narrators in it who are weak

    أبو مطيع

    and

    عطاء بن عجلان


    He says they are weak.

    Perhaps the author of the website should learn first and then make Wordpress blogs. May Allaah guide him.
    Do you know what the 4 imams say about this topic which you're discussing now?

    How many classical scholars said that the're is no difference between men and women's salah?
    Salah

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    Do you know what the 4 imams say about this topic which you're discussing now?

    How many classical scholars said that the're is no difference between men and women's salah?
    You forgot to read the last sentence of my post after that : )

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    Re: Salah

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
    You forgot to read the last sentence of my post after that : )
    And you deliberately forgot to accept the fact.

    If you're honest then download it and read

    http://www.darultahqiq.com/differenc...-to-evidences/
    Last edited by azc; 05-05-2017 at 06:03 PM.
    Salah

    Allah (swt) knows best


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