Why are women more restricted than men?

format_quote Originally Posted by talibilm

So Why these law's are for sister ? and even travelling for more than a day (or three days) alone for a women. Though every one is held for his or her's actions but there is factor called tempting factor which Allah wants to solve at its roots. Yes Man has to protect his eye sight as well as women but Allah ordered Hijab of women and hijab of men is beard is what I heard, do not know its a hadith or not.

Allah ordered hijab for women and lowering of the gaze for men, those are just a couple of rules. As you said, it takes two hands to clap and it takes BOTH men and women to follow their laws in order to keep society free from corruption.

My beef here is that men from certain backgrounds love to make women fully responsible. It is the type of mentality the justifies rape "Oh she was wearing something provocative, so it was her fault". NO NO NO, it is your job as a man, to keep your eyes on the ground and your hands to yourself.

As I said, there is a fine line and it is often crossed and laws/restrictions for women are used to oppress them and used in a condescending manner to establish authority by men. This is not allowed. So please understand my point here.

There is a reason why this posts was even started, and that is because the moment a woman takes shahada or begins to practice her deen, she gets bombarded with do's and dont's and made to feel like the responsibility of society as a whole is on her shoulders, while men justify their ridiculousness. This is cultural bias, not Islam.

You have to step outside of yourself to try and understand how overwhelming it can be. The responsibility is fair and even for both men and women. Just as women shouldn't wear perfume around a non mahram and purposely speak in a seductive manner to non mahram men, men should not mix, intermingle, flirt, excessively speak to, stare at or intentionally seduce a woman.

Oh and just for the record, women love the scent of a masculine cologne/Oud. Men often times take this permissible act and overdo it, in spite of them very well knowing they will mix at work or school etc. They don't take into consideration that in the days of the prophet (saw) women didn't leave the house the way they do now. So when men perfumed up, they were mainly around other men. This isn't the case today.... but here we are focused day in and day out about what women should and shouldn't be doing lol.

Men are also technically allowed to show their chest, but it wasn't a common practice. Only the poor didn't have shirts to wear and so only the bare minimum was required for the men. Back in those days, men all wore thobes and PROPER clothing, not jeans and a t-shirt, which can hardly be considered proper attire, historically speaking. But today? Shirtless men all over magazines and everywhere you go (in hot climates usually). But it's okay... it is permissible.



Anyway, so we all agree that there's rules and regulations that need to be followed by both genders in order for society to remain functional and not corrupted right? The problem is that rules are often ignored, wrong actions are justified and things that are permissible are abused, so society suffers and that's where we are today. Everyone should really focus on their own actions and look at the ground while walking. Be humble Let a woman learning to wear hijab, do so at her own pace and back off!

love me a rant.

format_quote Originally Posted by AbdullahAziz

eeek! dont do this dont do that?? you seem angry

No way lol, I'm far from it. I've been muslim for well over a decade now, Alhamdullilah. At no point did I resent Islam for all of the guidelines we have, but I did learn really quick where alot of biased information was coming from and I'm not shy to speak out. I simply said don't cherry pick and if information is going to be gather, be sure it is in its entirety. Nothing wrong with that

Assalamu alaykum,

I haven't read through this whole discussion, but a fundamental principle is that Islam isn't about 'equality is the conventional sense that everyone is treated the same, because this is such a vague ideal which doesn't take into account the unique attributes people have and would ultimately lead to this 'equality' benefitting some more than others. It is about fairness, the beauty and wisdom is that our deen takes into account what we need as humans and applies that.

There are separate regulations for men and women, because men and women are fundamentally different from each other in so many ways. So the separate guidelines concerning dress, marriage, behaviour, purity, ect, are inherently for our own benefit, I realise this now much more through my own experiences and those of everyone around me.

Of course, there is little doubt that women's behaviour is scrutinised and inspected far more than the behaviour of men. In some ways it makes sense, because of the integral role women have in bringing up the next generation, but too many times it is a harsh and cold microscopic glare which is really intimidating. We forget there are an equal amount of guidelines for men, yet these are rarely discussed or examined.

Being a Muslimah is wonderful alhamdulillah and as I have become closer to my deen I have never been happier, but the intense scrutiny can be pressurising. I am far from a perfect Muslim, but I need time, as does everyone else, to improve and change. And I noticed when I began wearing the full jilbaab - oh my days that expectation of me increased even more, lol.

Men have rights over women, and women have rights over men. Allah (afaik) has granted a degree of responsibility to men over women.

While we are not equal, this does not make women inferior in any way. Allah does not judge us based on gender, but on our deeds and piety. And none is superior than the other except in deeds and piety. (afaik)

Many get this misconception of "Men are superior to women" because men have a degree of responsibility over women, in being in charge of women.

we just have different roles. And oppression in marriage is haram. To make one's wife feel worthless and oppressed, etc.

AFAIK all the rules that apply to men apply to women, vica versa UNLESS otherwise is stated Qur'aan.
Allahu alam.

format_quote Originally Posted by talibilm

What Allah swt THE ALL WISE and his Noble Prophet has told is FINAL though exceptions will there not be included. If we speak against them then as a knowledgeable what will be our status hope you know about it

So its time for my fajr, sister, arguing too much is an act of satan's trait so I refrain from that.

May allah guide of all us.

Telling me what you are trying to imply with the hadiths you posted is not arguing. It is clarification. I don't want to assume your intentions here, so it is up to you to clarify. Posting something like that and running away is not very honorable. People like to post hadith and Quran to make points and back up their opinion without considering their context and doing so causes huge misunderstandings.

con·textˈkäntekst/
noun

• the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

I spent quite a bit of time explaining some points and trying to help reach a mutual understanding (not for the sake of arguing) and you come and post hadith which can imply that men are victims of women and women are to blame for all the fitna of the world. This is why I asked for your clarification. Is that what you are trying to say? Yes or No?

format_quote Originally Posted by 66moon

Thanks a lot for all the replies, everyone.
But I don't understand, I'm supposed to try to look ugly when I go out? Someone here said that women cannot wear attractive clothes, which would mean that we have to wear unattractive clothes? I'm not speaking of the current Western fashion. This is what I mean : http://www.design2talk.com/wp-conten...-hijab-5-2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg


https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/f...n-Bloggers.png


http://www.hijabiworld.com/wp-conten...al5.jpg?x49854

Sister you said it yourself. "Unattractive" ..comes from "attract"..Which alludes to people seeing you and drawn to you.

Definition of attractive (some used):

"appealing to the senses or mind through beauty, form, character, etc"
"arousing interest"

Source used: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/attractive

I see sisters now a days have descent clothes but the lower part of the legs they show they are wearing the tight pants. You have to understand that for us men when we even seen the thickness of the legs we fill out in our mind the rest of the body shape. For people who find this outrages for what i am saying, be thankful that i am sharing what is happening in the mind of men. Instead of shooting down the messenger, use this information to benefit from and ponder about. These for example:

http://www.design2talk.com/wp-conten...-hijab-5-2.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...589c6687d9.jpg

The picture of that other sister with lose clothes in blue I think was for my taste very good. No shape of her body whatsoever. Also my advice, to sisters in general..prevent using all to BRIGHT colors such as bright red or bright yellow and down that road. Just like some creatures don't see something if it doesn't move, it is the same with us human beings especially us men we notice bright colors as we are visually programmed for bigger part.

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/f...n-Bloggers.png

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth

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Sister in one of your comments you mentioned about some people blaming the woman when something happened to her. There are three types of men.

Type 1: lowers his gaze and can control himself.
Type 2: Doesn't lower his gaze and is difficult for him to control himself
Type 3: This guy is the example of the dog Allah (swt) used in the Qur'an. He will pant no matter if the woman is completely covered or not.

The type 2 guy is for bigger part the covered is meant for. If stage one fails (not lowering of the gaze) stage two is still active ..woman is covered so even if he looks he doesn't see anything. If he does see something that guy himself is to be blamed but also the woman for not doing whatever to protect her self by covering and prevent him seeing what he isn't allowed to see. So for women to cover is i would argue largely for their own protection from men who act upon what they see.

Well the third type. That guy will assault even a tree. These guys are filth of society but even a third precaution is taken towards these people. A male mahram is with her. So 3 protectons line. Lower the gaze for type 1. Covering of your body for the sister for type 2 and male mahram walking with her to protect her from type 3.

If there is a error in this logic, please do correct me.

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth

Telling me what you are trying to imply with the hadiths you posted is not arguing. It is clarification. I don't want to assume your intentions here, so it is up to you to clarify. Posting something like that and running away is not very honorable. People like to post hadith and Quran to make points and back up their opinion without considering their context and doing so causes huge misunderstandings.


I spent quite a bit of time explaining some points and trying to help reach a mutual understanding (not for the sake of arguing) and you come and post hadith which can imply that men are victims of women and women are to blame for all the fitna of the world. This is why I asked for your clarification. Is that what you are trying to say? Yes or No?

So what is the context there ? could you please teach us Sister, daughter.

Yes. Most (not all ) of the fitna starts from BAD women and even by this hadith its true. When you say Men should not wear tight cloths that's right i supported you but how do you know they wear tight cloths UNLESS you look or stare at them ?. So both men & women have to control the gaze. Every eye is lustful says another hadith. And May be since men are mostly out engaged in day today works they are more PRONE & vulnerable to control their eyes though I do ( Alhamdulilah ) so the reason here for the literal cover or hijab to women.


So now we have digged inside the PROBABLE root cause & apparent cause Why Allah has levied many more rules on women who was created from Ribs it seen in Hadith. whereas when a bad Women can be a fitna and Hell even in this world to her husband (hadith) & vice versa a good women can be paradise too (hadith) For a good family & children its the women who takes more credit than a husband.



Uncle Talibilm is 50 what has been said from the hadith is upto you accept it or not and another hadith points out more

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 24 :: Hadith 541

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."


So hope you will not further drag me into sinning by a argument by calling me not honorable (its a Sin ) as in your above post which proves AGAIN the above hadith LIVE , since i never wished to reply you after fajr but you did win by dragging me here AGAIN (by your sharp words, tongue) and Prove the above hadith how even a wise cautious man (i am old so I hope am wise too inshallah, Allahul aalam ) can be mislead by some like you as EXACTLY pointed in the above hadith . I quote again

''O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray."

So Sister, daughter. So I shall keep my ideas as per hadith and its upto you whatever you are after at and Allah will clear us all on the DOJ.

Jazakallah * asalamualaikum.

format_quote Originally Posted by talibilm

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 24 :: Hadith 541

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
On 'Id ul Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."

Uncle, the funny thing is that many women and probably also men will be outraged about the part i made bolt. However instead of being outraged, a sister in general should better ponder about that part and realize from the bottom of her heart that this is something to be careful of. As Rasullah(saws) would NOT SAY such a thing IF it was not some piece of advice. As it is a weakness that can lead you astray and people around you, just like how the carnal desires of men are a GREAT fitna for the men. So instead of feeling insulted when somebody would point this out towards men that they are weak in their carnal desires as it is difficult for them to control, i as a man take that advice and try to find out whatever means to have better control over it. Also to be very cautious in situations even by NOT hanging out with people who have let their carnal desire lose. Such men will also change my behavior towards their behavior if i hang out with them.

So that would also mean for women i would suggest. To hang out with more wise women who have had some life experience compared to other women who have almost zero life experience. As they would also inject their mentality in to you.

I also remembered i believe @sister herb mentioned that women have bizarre logic as they would stay with losers as their husbands. While a intelligent person would have divorced such a man all along. I remember in my reply to that comment that if they would have the same logic and rationality we would have seen them like in animal kingdom. They would go from one partner to another every season or stay with the strongest or have multiple partners and get love from 1, money from the other and carnal desires from another one etc.. If he would get old and weak, they would leave him for a stronger partner. So rather it is also a blessing, as men have been ordered as protectors and providers over women. She doesn't have to work, however if she does want all her money belongs to her.

Some blessings are given to her and some blessings are given to him. Together (completion of the deen) when they marry they complete one another's deficient side.

What about we talk about the do's and don't 's in marriage?

Like, what can a man NOT do etc. Cuz I feel this is more of a current issue with the Ummah, that they don't know their RIGHTS upon the other. Like, for men, all they think about is the women's obligation upon them (as a wife) while they don't think the other way around (which they should).

What about we talk about the restrictions on women and men? AND back it up with Quraan AND tafsir?

Not only the restrictions on women, but also men.

Allahu alam