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Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

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    Is Islam a Feminist Religion? (OP)


    A growing number of Hijabis are declaring that they are Muslim feminists. Yassmin Abdel-Magied stated, on the Australian Q&A program that "...Islam, to me, is THE most feminist religion, right?"

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/v...am-on-qa-video

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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

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    format_quote Originally Posted by aaj View Post
    A good read on the subject:

    http://www.islam101.com/women/jameelah.htm
    A lengthy article which makes some interesting points...

    For those of us that do not believe that men are superior to women, nor that women are superior to men:

    GOLDEN RULE is best: treat others as you would wish to be treated.

    At the end of the day, on a human level we are the same. We all experience pain, happiness, sadness, love, joy, etc.
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post

    GOLDEN RULE is best: treat others as you would wish to be treated.
    The Prophet Muhammad pbuh taught us this.

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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Feminism does mean equality for all. It has been twisted by 'new wave' feminists to have almost lost its intended meaning. It was coined by women who were fighting for equal rights to men at a time that that they didn't. Women in democracies now have those rights; women in Islamic theocracies do not.

    But I guess you, and Islamic scripture, have answered my question; Women do not have the same rights as men under Islamic law; as they do under democratic law.

    For Muslim women, to refer to themselves as Muslim feminists is wrong. Muslim feminist is, therefore, an oxymoron.

    I think we both agree, albeit for varying reasons, that Islam is not a feminist religion. In fact, to be fair, women are not treated equally in any religion so none are.

    In conclusion, to ensure equality for all; separating church/mosque and state ensures equality for all, regardless of religion, gender or the colour of their skin. Democracy may not be perfect but it is fairer, to men and women, than any other alternative on offer.

    Thanks for discussing.
    No you don't get it. You cannot say "Democracy may not be perfect but it is fairer, to men and women, than any other alternative on offer.". I say this as an ex-atheist. I have pondered about this subject also. What you said is the SAME believe i also tend to have as "it is not perfect but it is fairer". Sister, in this world there is SERIOUSLY and i am not saying this because i am an Muslim, but seriously there is no better way than the Islamic way for women as we are talking about women, but even for everything. From nature, to behavior, to seeking knowledge, to family rulings, you name it.

    Women are being held in such a high regard that i am sometimes confused how women do not see that. In Islam when women are covered and she talks, people LISTEN to what she is saying, not to what she is showing. To give you an example. You see a homeless guy and he is having a talk with you about life and is sharing his wisdom. Just you looking at him, you judge him as we are human beings. In this case with women is the same. People tend to look at her body and judge her body or in case of men being distracted and not paying any attention to what she is saying. They HEAR her talking, but are NOT LISTENING to what she is saying if she is not covered.

    There are some SICK people in society that cannot control their desires and would sexually assault women. Some act upon what turns them on, but when they see a covered woman, nothing is ignited as there is nothing to see. Among men are dogs that will assault any woman, covered or not covered. Islam gives a male guardian to also protect the woman.

    Praying at the mosque gives 27 more reward for the man and i believe a woman when she prays at home she gets this equal reward. I speak as a man, that it is super hard to pray at the mosque every single prayer.

    When she works, all what she earns belongs to herself. If she doesn't work still all good and her husband still in both cases has to provide her.

    She is not obliged to do household work, but often she does it out of the goodness of her heart. Being in charge of something is not easy in life. When somebody is taking care of you, suddenly you could say life becomes a lot easier. Just thinking about childhood. No stress, rent is being paid, school is being paid, water is being paid, food is being paid.

    By western ideology one could almost say that it is rather inequality as she gets way more out of this than the man. Yet something is missing that western ideology doesn't seem to understand. I am not sure if this is the covering part? Or something else. Every aspect of the Islamic way of life has a reason to be for what it is to be. Just recently it came to my mind that the western ideologies will see indeed that all the solutions to the problems they are having are in Islam. To give you one of the many examples.

    In Islam if a child is adopted, he/she MUST stick to her original name (last name etc.). This being that the contact sticks between the biological parents. Just recently there is some sick mental disease (Genetic Sexual Attraction) on the rise. The biological mother having sexual relationship with the son after 20 years or so finally meeting up.

    http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/09/mother...other-6057790/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6976701.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-incest.html

    And there are more cases still rising.
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    A lengthy article which makes some interesting points...

    For those of us that do not believe that men are superior to women, nor that women are superior to men:

    GOLDEN RULE is best: treat others as you would wish to be treated.

    At the end of the day, on a human level we are the same. We all experience pain, happiness, sadness, love, joy, etc.
    In Islam this is understood very clearly. However in western ideology and Middle Eastern CULTURE men see themselves superior than women if they do not agree with equal rights in general and the present day third-wave feminism sees themselves superior to men. Men and women completes the lack of ability the other is missing, like women have a far superior emotional side, while men by basic logic, rationality and reason are superior to women. I am not saying they are "dumb", no because of their superior emotional side, they tend to include this in their judgement. Their judgement based on feeling might sometimes be better than men, but other times this could rather be cause of some problems.

    Women get get pregnant, men can give the seed. There are even cases that some women because they have no man in their life, they trick some men in to intimate sexual act. With that lying about that they are taking the pill to just get pregnant as their desire to have a child is beyond control. I know this is just wrong, but without seed from where ever they cannot have their own child.

    Men are by physical power superior than women, while women are superior by coping out with pain than men. So again one fulfills what the other is missing.
    Last edited by Simple_Person; 03-31-2017 at 05:58 PM.
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    Greetings,

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    In conclusion, to ensure equality for all; separating church/mosque and state ensures equality for all, regardless of religion, gender or the colour of their skin. Democracy may not be perfect but it is fairer, to men and women, than any other alternative on offer.

    Thanks for discussing.
    'Equality for all' doesn't make sense, as numerous people have pointed out. The following post from a recent thread illustrates this quite well:

    Originally posted by Umm♥Layth
    I think the main reason you find it "unfair" is because of the western ideas of equality. We should be able to do the same things men do right? Actually, that's not quite true. We are different creatures with different needs. If we all had the same rules and regulations, it would be very unfair.

    4f9kw 1 - Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    The following also elaborates on this:

    '...the new wave of feminism does not have achievable goals – it simply creates “competition” between men and women by ignoring the differences between the sexes and simply concentrating on what a man can do, a woman can too. As humans beings we need to learn to respect the differences between men and women, and perceive these differences positively. “Equality” does not mean that men and women should be identical, or treated the same. However, this is the image some feminists want to create, that equality is synonymous with the third wave of feminism'.

    You posted a list of allegations against women's rights in Islam, which I removed from your post because most likely it was copy and pasted from a anti-Islamic website. It seems you harbour many misconceptions about Islamic teachings and are further confusing them with media headlines and unIslamic behaviour. You will find most if not all such allegations refuted many times. See these links for further information:

    Index of useful threads
    Index of useful threads
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    Islam is all about equity, mutual complimentary rights. Not polarised rights as in what the west propagates.
    That is the difference which Muhammad so nicely demonstrated with that image.

    Now do you see the difference, Islamocurious, between what you call Equality AND what you really want - Equity ??

    This is an Islamic teaching, which is misunderstood in the west due to polarity.

    You've had the opportunity to learn first hand, from Muslims about this.

    God bless,

    Scimi
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    The Prophet Muhammad pbuh taught us this.

    Scimi
    Where in the Quran? Although the golden rule predates the bible, it does include it:

    Matthew 7:12 - In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    Abdullah ibn Al-Muntafiq reported: I said, “O Messenger of Allah, teach me what will save me from the punishment of Allah and admit me into Paradise.” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Worship Allah and do not associate anything with Him, establish the prescribed prayers, and give the obligatory charity, Fast the month of Ramadan, and treat people the way you would love to be treated, and do not treat them the way you would hate to be treated.”
    Source: al-Mu’jam al-Kabīr 15833
    Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani

    ...

    Abu Sirmah reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Whoever harms others, then Allah will harm him. Whoever is harsh with others, then Allah will be harsh with him.”
    Source: Sunan al-Tirmidhī 1940
    Grade: Hasan (fair) according to Ibn Hajar

    ...

    “None of you have faith until you love for your neighbor what you love for yourself” (Sahih Muslim)

    “Whoever wishes to be delivered from the fire and to enter Paradise…should treat the people as he wishes to be treated.” (Sahih Muslim)

    “None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself” (Forty Hadith-Nawawi)

    “None of you is a believer if he eats his full while his neighbour hasn’t anything.” (Musnad)

    “Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourselves.” (Abu Dawud)

    “Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.” (Farewell Sermon)

    “There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.” (Ibn- Majah)

    There are so many. These are only a few.

    Scimi




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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    Greetings,


    'Equality for all' doesn't make sense, as numerous people have pointed out. The following post from a recent thread illustrates this quite well:

    Originally posted by UmmIs Islam a Feminist Religion?Layth
    I think the main reason you find it "unfair" is because of the western ideas of equality. We should be able to do the same things men do right? Actually, that's not quite true. We are different creatures with different needs. If we all had the same rules and regulations, it would be very unfair.

    4f9kw 1 - Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    The following also elaborates on this:

    '...the new wave of feminism does not have achievable goals – it simply creates “competition” between men and women by ignoring the differences between the sexes and simply concentrating on what a man can do, a woman can too. As humans beings we need to learn to respect the differences between men and women, and perceive these differences positively. “Equality” does not mean that men and women should be identical, or treated the same. However, this is the image some feminists want to create, that equality is synonymous with the third wave of feminism'.

    You posted a list of allegations against women's rights in Islam, which I removed from your post because most likely it was copy and pasted from a anti-Islamic website. It seems you harbour many misconceptions about Islamic teachings and are further confusing them with media headlines and unIslamic behaviour. You will find most if not all such allegations refuted many times. See these links for further information:

    Index of useful threads
    Index of useful threads
    The list of allegations against women's rights in Islam, as you put it, I cross checked against an Islamic site: http://corpus.quran.com/

    fdb472d1780b97f7be34b546e3318478 1 - Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    Which supports the list I posted.

    You appear to be saying that you prefer Islamic sharia to democratic law; is this correct?
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    We can rather say Islam is a "femalist" religion.
    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post

    You appear to be saying that you prefer Islamic sharia to democratic law; is this correct?
    I'm smirking lol

    I tell you why.

    Islam saw the first true democracy with the first khaliphs, who were chosen by the people due to their status in the Arab community in being fair, honest and God fearing folk who feared displeasing God and did not see themselves as Rulers - rather, as Civil Servants, ordained by God to lead humanity out of ignorance.

    At that time in the world, the world had NO DEMOCRACY, and the first example of "chosen leadership" was during the first khaliphate, of Abu Bakr As Siddique RA.

    This set the pattern of things to come. Yet, soon as the golden age was dwindling out, and the renaissance edging in, the democratic process by which leadership is chosen in the Arab Muslim world, was adopted by the Europeans, and guess what? they butchered it - this after the magna carta was established which claimed Rights of the People - while subjugating them to tyrannical practices,

    You can't make your claim work, history itself is against it.

    Scimi
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    The list of allegations against women's rights in Islam, as you put it, I cross checked against an Islamic site: http://corpus.quran.com/

    Which supports the list I posted.
    What you have posted is a search engine for an English translation of the Qur'an. However, earlier you posted claims which were taking verses of the Qur'an out of context. You cannot simply quote a verse of the Qur'an and assume it means whatever you want to. If you refer to the links I posted earlier, you will find many of the issues addressed there.
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    I'm smirking lol

    I tell you why.

    Islam saw the first true democracy with the first khaliphs, who were chosen by the people due to their status in the Arab community in being fair, honest and God fearing folk who feared displeasing God and did not see themselves as Rulers - rather, as Civil Servants, ordained by God to lead humanity out of ignorance.

    At that time in the world, the world had NO DEMOCRACY, and the first example of "chosen leadership" was during the first khaliphate, of Abu Bakr As Siddique RA.

    This set the pattern of things to come. Yet, soon as the golden age was dwindling out, and the renaissance edging in, the democratic process by which leadership is chosen in the Arab Muslim world, was adopted by the Europeans, and guess what? they butchered it - this after the magna carta was established which claimed Rights of the People - while subjugating them to tyrannical practices,

    You can't make your claim work, history itself is against it.

    Scimi
    Hmmm, interesting... Sharia is certainly not compatible with democracy, as it is, today so I guess you do prefer Islamic sharia over current democracy?
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Hmmm, interesting... Sharia is certainly not compatible with democracy, as it is, today so I guess you do prefer Islamic sharia over current democracy?
    In Islamic Law, there is Shari'a and there is additional human interpretation. Shari'a cannot be changed, so homosexuality within Islamic law prohibited. This part of the Law comes as commandment from Allah. Within Shari'a isn't just "law" what is permissible and what is prohibited. Within this is also for example that Muslims must pray, although this doesn't mean if you stop praying that you must be punished or something like that.

    The other part is the human interpretation. These are minor details. For example when you pay attention to the minor details of the prayer with Muslims you see at different part of the world, these interpretation differ. Not agreeing with one, doesn't mean you go against Islam.

    Democracy is based on human understanding of what THEY today might accept. So for example homosexuality is accepted and now a days even promoted. If today X is red, tomorrow X might become blue, as people can change their own rulings. In Islam X stays red (Shari'a part - the part as commandment of Allah), no matter how many years go by. So saying you do not agree with democracy, has a reason behind it. Now a days people tend to make things very simplistic as if it is black and white. But nothing in life is black and white with a simplistic answer as yes or no.

    Is shari'a compatible with democracy? As far as nothing is being forced upon me, it is compatible. Although homosexuality is being promoted, doesn't mean i must do something violent against them but also within a Islamic society nobody can just violently go kill them or hurt them. No i speak out as i object to the practice, but more than that i cannot. When is shari'a not compatible with this "democracy" in the west? When people want you to be their clones. In other words if they force you to eat pork, drink alcohol, if they prohibit to be able to pray or have a house of worship (mosque). So as long as Muslims are left alone to do what they are commanded to do (within the law of the country), than it is perfectly compatible. A Muslim might not vote during a election, but in this democracy is also a choice right? You can vote and you are also free to not vote.
    Last edited by Simple_Person; 03-31-2017 at 08:46 PM.
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    We can rather say Islam is a "femalist" religion.
    Is Islam a Feminist Religion? But nah, the discussions on this forum are leading me to believe, rightly or wrongly, that Islam is Islam. Hijabis in the west are telling Muslims and non-Muslims that Islam is feminist and that its compatible with western democracy.

    As a result; Muslims, that may have never read the Quran, and non Muslims are reading it, and the life of prophet Mohammad and Hadiths. There are also a growing number of reformist Muslims that say it should undergo a reformation, similar to Christianity. But from what I'm learning from Islamic scripture, forums, and imams, etc. is that Islam does not need a reformation and must remain unchanged.

    BTW. Are you able to recommend imams to listen to? Zakir Naik seems to have a very large following.

    Thank you!
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Hmmm, interesting... Sharia is certainly not compatible with democracy, as it is, today so I guess you do prefer Islamic sharia over current democracy?
    Your hubris is cute. Shariah is not a rigid law system, it is flexible and you'd be surprised to learn how much the West has borrowed from the Shariah of Islam.

    Research it,

    Stuff they don't teach you in school, eh?

    Scimi
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    I'm smirking lol

    I tell you why.

    Islam saw the first true democracy with the first khaliphs, who were chosen by the people due to their status in the Arab community in being fair, honest and God fearing folk who feared displeasing God and did not see themselves as Rulers - rather, as Civil Servants, ordained by God to lead humanity out of ignorance.

    At that time in the world, the world had NO DEMOCRACY, and the first example of "chosen leadership" was during the first khaliphate, of Abu Bakr As Siddique RA.

    This set the pattern of things to come. Yet, soon as the golden age was dwindling out, and the renaissance edging in, the democratic process by which leadership is chosen in the Arab Muslim world, was adopted by the Europeans, and guess what? they butchered it - this after the magna carta was established which claimed Rights of the People - while subjugating them to tyrannical practices,

    You can't make your claim work, history itself is against it.

    Scimi
    Hi Scimi

    Democracy means people-power or rule by the people. The idea came from the ancient Greeks who combined the words demos (people) and krates (rule) to create the term. Some historians believe that goes even further back than Ancient Greece, and prior to Christianity and Islam.

    Islam sharia is the law of Allah that rules over the lives of people, is it not? That in Islam, Muslims adhere to Islamic sharia/law:God's law, not democracy which was created by humans.

    What is your historical source? I can't find any. And to be honest, it seems that democracy; because it was man made, is the antithesis of Islamic sharia which is God's law.

    Ciao for now
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Hi Scimi

    Democracy means people-power or rule by the people. The idea came from the ancient Greeks who combined the words demos (people) and krates (rule) to create the term. Some historians believe that goes even further back than Ancient Greece, and prior to Christianity and Islam.

    Islam sharia is the law of Allah that rules over the lives of people, is it not? That in Islam, Muslims adhere to Islamic sharia/law:God's law, not democracy which was created by humans.

    What is your historical source? I can't find any. And to be honest, it seems that democracy; because it was man made, is the antithesis of Islamic sharia which is God's law.

    Ciao for now
    except the ancient Greeks weren't ruled by a democracy, rather, theocracy full of tyrannical hungry men who entertained "conquest" as ameans to glorify their nations - not humanity.

    I mentioned that Islam gave the world a PURE FORM OF DEMOCRACY, not a corrupted version of it, like the Greeks you claim started it, did.

    ciao bella

    Scimi
    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar View Post
    except the ancient Greeks weren't ruled by a democracy, rather, theocracy full of tyrannical hungry men who entertained "conquest" as ameans to glorify their nations - not humanity.

    I mentioned that Islam gave the world a PURE FORM OF DEMOCRACY, not a corrupted version of it, like the Greeks you claim started it, did.

    ciao bella

    Scimi
    Funny about what you are saying is that also in this day and age it is rather a theocracy. So a theocracy under the banner of a democracy controlled my psychological means of propaganda and censorship.

    In the recent years things have become very clear of this fact when a referendum has been setup. A referendum is the core of democracy and suddenly when one pays attention to it you will see the people "representing" the people show their unhappiness when this referendum has been pushed by the people. In other words control is taken out of their hands. In the Netherlands it was visible with whole Ukraine issue in UK was visible with the result of Brexit even by democratic rules in US was visible with the elections. In is very clear to notice this but people are preoccupied not able to notice it.

    Democracy never will work. When democracy and let's say referendums are being pushed for every single decision you will see that society collapses. So even in referendums by means of propaganda governments are trying to influence the minds of people. So indeed a theocracy.
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    Funny about what you are saying is that also in this day and age it is rather a theocracy.
    I was hoping someone would notice the Easter Egg I left lol.

    Well done bro.

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