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  1. #61
    Full Member islamocurious's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by Serinity View Post


    Anyone who says or thinks that Islam, itself, can "change" in any way shape or form, has committed kufr, and is a kafir. AFAIK

    The West claims that Islam is oppressive on women - I fail to see that. Because when I look at Islamic Law, all I see is justice done to women.

    They are not objectified, and in-doctrinated to think that showing your body is being "free". - Like the West has done.

    Allahu alam.
    Ex-Muslim women and men, some Muslim women and men, and the Quran 'claim' Islam is oppressive to women and girls. For eg. Muslim women in western countries are free to wear whatever they like: the hijab, niqab, burqua or not; Muslim women in Islamic theocracies do not have this freedom. To say that western women are indoctrinated to think that showing your body is being free is nonsensical. Do you understand the definition of personal freedom?

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    IB Oldskool sister herb's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Ex-Muslim women and men, some Muslim women and men, and the Quran 'claim' Islam is oppressive to women and girls. For eg. Muslim women in western countries are free to wear whatever they like: the hijab, niqab, burqua or not; Muslim women in Islamic theocracies do not have this freedom. To say that western women are indoctrinated to think that showing your body is being free is nonsensical. Do you understand the definition of personal freedom?
    Haven´t you ever heard about niqab/hijab bans in the free West?
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    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




  4. #63
    Full Member islamocurious's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Of course. But let's put this in perspective, you are free to wear whatever you like in the majority, most populous western countries. Can the same be said by western women travelling to Muslim majority countries?

  5. #64
    IB Oldskool sister herb's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Yeah - welcome to the free Europe, unless you are a Muslim woman:

    Germany
    On 6 December 2016, Chancellor Angela Merkel said the wearing of-faced veils should be prohibited in Germany "wherever it is legally possible".
    Her comments, made at a CDU party meeting, came after plans to outlaw the burka - or any full-face veil - in public buildings were proposed by Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere in August.
    There has been no national law restricting the wearing of veils in Germany prior to these proposals.
    In September 2003 the federal Constitutional Court ruled in favour of a teacher who wanted to wear an Islamic scarf to school. (You have to go to the court to get right to decide how to wear?)
    At least half of Germany's 16 states went on to ban teachers from wearing headscarves and in the state of Hesse the ban included civil servants.

    Austria
    The ruling coalition agreed in January 2017 to prohibit full-face veils (niqab and burka) in public spaces such as courts and schools. It said it was considering a more general ban on state employees wearing the headscarf and other religious symbols.
    The measures were seen as an attempt to counter the rise of the far-right Freedom Party, which almost won the presidency in December 2016.
    The coalition, made up of the left-wing Social Democrats and the conservative Austrian People's Party, said that full-face veils in public stood in the way of "open communication", which it said was fundamental to an "open society".
    Only an estimated 150 women wear the full niqab in Austria but tourism officials expressed fears that the measures would also deter visitors from the Gulf as it would apply at ski resorts, as much as the capital, Vienna.
    The measures require parliamentary approval before they can come into force.

    France
    On 11 April 2011, France became the first European country to ban the full-face Islamic veil in public places.
    Under the ban, no woman, French or foreign, is able to leave their home with their face hidden behind a veil without running the risk of a fine.
    As President, Nicolas Sarkozy, whose administration brought in the ban, said that veils oppress women and were "not welcome" in France.
    In 2016 France introduced a controversial ban on women's full-body swimsuits, known as "burkinis". Prime Minister Manuel Valls called the swimsuits "the affirmation of political Islam in the public space".
    The burkini ban, imposed by French Riviera mayors, was later lifted in seaside resorts after France's top administrative court overruled the law.

    France has about five million Muslims - the largest Muslim minority in Western Europe - but it is thought only about 2,000 women wear full veils.
    The penalty for doing so is a 150 euro (£133, $217) fine and instruction in citizenship. Anyone found forcing a woman to cover her face risks a 30,000 euro fine.
    Data from 2015 showed that 1,546 fines had been imposed under the law.
    The European Court of Human Rights upheld the ban on 2 July 2014 after a case was brought by a 24-year-old French woman who argued that the ban violated her freedom of religion and expression.
    Most of the population - including most Muslims - agree with the government when it describes the face-covering veil as an affront to society's values. Critics - chiefly outside France - say it is a violation of individual liberties.
    A ban on Muslim headscarves and other "conspicuous" religious symbols at state schools was introduced in 2004, and received overwhelming political and public support in a country where the separation of state and religion is enshrined in law.

    Belgium
    A law banning the full-face veil came into effect in Belgium in July 2011.
    The law bans any clothing that obscures the identity of the wearer in places like parks and on the street.
    In December 2012, Belgium's Constitutional Court rejected appeals for the ban to be annulled, ruling that it did not violate human rights.
    Before the law was passed, the burka was already banned in several districts under old local laws originally designed to stop people masking their faces completely at carnival time.

    The Netherlands
    In November 2016, Dutch MPs backed a ban on the Islamic full veil in public places such as schools and hospitals, and on public transport.
    The niqab and the burka full-face veils were included in the ban along with face coverings such as ski-masks and helmets.
    In order for the ban to become law, the Dutch Senate must approve the bill.
    Prime Minister Mark Rutte's ruling Liberal-Labour coalition described the bill, which will see offenders fined up to 410 euros (£350, $435), as "religious-neutral".
    The proposed ban reflected the influence of the anti-Islamist Geert Wilders, whose Freedom party was at that time the third largest in parliament and the minority coalition government's chief ally.

    Around 5% of the Netherlands' 16 million residents are Muslims, but only around 300 are thought to wear the niqab or the burka. The wearing of headscarves is far more common, however.

    Italy
    Several towns in Italy have local bans on face-covering veils. The north-western town of Novara is one of several local authorities to have already brought in rules to deter public use of the Islamic veil.
    In the Lombardy region of Italy, a burka ban was agreed in December 2015 and came into effect in January 2016.
    Governments have discussed extending laws to impose penalties on Muslim face coverings, but these have not yet been enforced nationally.

    In 2004 local politicians in northern Italy resurrected old public order laws against the wearing of masks, to stop women from wearing the burka.
    Some mayors from the anti-immigrant Northern League have also banned the use of Islamic swimsuits.

    Spain
    Though there are no plans for a national ban in Spain, in 2010 the city of Barcelona announced a ban on full Islamic face-veils in some public spaces such as municipal offices, public markets and libraries.
    At least two smaller towns in Catalonia, the north-eastern region that includes Barcelona, have also imposed bans.

    But a ban in the town of Lleida was overturned by Spain's Supreme Court in February 2013. It ruled that it was an infringement of religious liberties.
    Barcelona's city council said the ban there targeted any head-wear that impeded identification, including motorbike helmets and balaclavas.

    Britain
    There is no ban on Islamic dress in the UK, but schools are allowed to decide their own dress code after a 2007 directive which followed several high-profile court cases.

    In January 2010, then Schools Secretary Ed Balls said it was "not British" to tell people what to wear in the street after the UK Independence Party called for all face-covering Muslim veils to be banned.
    In September 2013, Home Office Minister Jeremy Browne called for a "national debate" about Islamic veils in public places, such as schools.
    In 2014 UKIP came first in the European elections in Britain, winning 24 seats in Brussels. Former UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said that full veils are a symbol of an "increasingly divided Britain", that they "oppress" women, and are a potential security threat.
    Some 57% of the British public support a burka ban in the UK, a YouGov poll in August 2016 found.

    Denmark
    In 2008, the government announced it would bar judges from wearing headscarves and similar religious or political symbols - including crucifixes, Jewish skull caps and turbans - in courtrooms.

    That move came after pressure from the Danish People's Party (DPP), known for its anti-Muslim rhetoric, which has since called for the ban to be extended to include school teachers and medical personnel.
    After a Danish paper published a controversial cartoon in 2005 depicting the Prophet Muhammad as a bearded man with a bomb in his turban, there were a series of protests against Denmark across the Muslim world.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13038095
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    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




  6. #65
    IB Oldtimer Serinity's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Ex-Muslim women and men, some Muslim women and men, and the Quran 'claim' Islam is oppressive to women and girls. For eg. Muslim women in western countries are free to wear whatever they like: the hijab, niqab, burqua or not; Muslim women in Islamic theocracies do not have this freedom. To say that western women are indoctrinated to think that showing your body is being free is nonsensical. Do you understand the definition of personal freedom?
    Personal freedom that promote indeceny, immorality - I do not support that. It is not nonsensical - it is true. Sadly people who lack morals don't see it.

    There is no freedom in the West.

    Allahu alam.
    Last edited by Serinity; 1 Week Ago at 02:37 PM.
    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
    " Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "

    Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an
    Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.

  7. #66
    IB Oldskool Muhammad's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Ex-Muslim women and men, some Muslim women and men, and the Quran 'claim' Islam is oppressive to women and girls.
    The Qur'an does not claim 'Islam is oppressive' to anyone. Unfortunately ex-Muslims do not know Islam. You would benefit from reading the Qur'an and studying the teachings of Islam for yourself;

    Whoever does righteousness - it is for his [own] soul; and whoever does evil [does so] against it. And your Lord is not ever unjust to [His] servants.
    [Qur'an 41:46]

    The Prophet said: “The best of you are those who are the best to their wives, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977

    The Prophet said: “I urge you to treat women well.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 331; Muslim, 1468.

    He also said, “You never spend anything but you will be rewarded for it, even the morsel of food that you lift to your wife’s mouth.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6352; Muslim, 1628.

    Of course. But let's put this in perspective, you are free to wear whatever you like in the majority, most populous western countries. Can the same be said by western women travelling to Muslim majority countries?
    Muslim majority countries vary in their regulations on dress code, just like western countries do. But, there is a reason why many Muslim women still choose to wear the Hijab, despite living in a place that allows you to wear what you want. In fact, many of them have to fight for their right to wear it in so-called free societies, due to the negative stereotypes that are all too prevalent there.
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    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?




  8. #67
    IB Oldskool sister herb's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Of course. But let's put this in perspective, you are free to wear whatever you like in the majority, most populous western countries. Can the same be said by western women travelling to Muslim majority countries?
    Free to wear what ever except Islamic clothes. You can follow freely what ever religion except Islam. In the West you are free to wear bikinis, not niqab. You call it as freedom? Why the West gives freedom to you to decide how to wear but not to me?

    Stop claiming here kind of rubbish. What kind of freedom it is when politicians and courts discuss about can you wear this and that? It´s not freedom - it´s the oppression of women.
    1 | Likes Simple_Person liked this post
    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




  9. #68
    IB Oldtimer Serinity's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    The claim that Islam is oppressive is baseless.

    It is mere assumptions. Have you ever asked a Muslim woman whether it is oppressive? no? Women are commanded to wear Hijab so that they be honored - and not judged by their looks.

    And in Islam you are not judged by what gender you are - but by what you do.

    Allahu alam.
    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    Meaning of Shirk according to The Qur'an
    " Worshipping anyone or anything besides Allah " or " distributing anything exclusive to Allah, to anyone or anything else "

    Meaning of Tawheed according to The Qur'an
    Worshipping none but Allah. Affirming whatever is exclusive to Him, Him alone.

  10. #69
    IB Oldskool sister herb's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    The Western feminists behave like we Muslim women wouldn´t have own will, mind and brains. They too oppress other women when decide behalf of them how they think and what they want.
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    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




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    Eye Of The Tornado Simple_Person's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Of course. But let's put this in perspective, you are free to wear whatever you like in the majority, most populous western countries. Can the same be said by western women travelling to Muslim majority countries?
    This sister is the TYPICAL behavior of what we call in our culture "Gundi's" (people who live in villages). In other words people who are very small minded, have only seen their own village and suddenly everything that doesn't meet their standard is bad. Their reasoning is why i bring this up is the SAME reasoning you are using.

    Saying yeah but we can "wear what we want" instead of looking at the reality itself, then if somebody debunks your reasoning you saying but look at those Muslim majority countries you are being oppressed.

    Well i guess a thief in a court house uses same reasoning right? Pointing at somebody else and saying..look he is a thief in other words just because i have robbed do not look at me, look at other people. Every case is judged by it's own. If you lie and i lie, we are BOTH liars and we both are responsible for our OWN actions.

    What is happening in Muslim majority countries, please don't spill even 1 word, because as Muslims we are MORE than aware of what is happening there. However here in the west people are the ones with such big mouths shouting freedom this and freedom that, however all we see is oppression this and oppression that. You are "free" as long as you behave like the mass, if you differ suddenly you are "against" freedom. Go take a look at your definition of freedom first, before coming and acting as if you are knowledgeable about this subject. Because in these little comments of yours (no offense) but there is A LOT OF IGNORANCE and dishonesty. So go clean up your act and come back so we can have a well founded discussion.
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    Is Islam a Feminist Religion?

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  13. #71
    IB Oldtimer Futuwwa's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by islamocurious View Post
    Of course. But let's put this in perspective, you are free to wear whatever you like in the majority, most populous western countries. Can the same be said by western women travelling to Muslim majority countries?
    Why is this question even relevant?

  14. #72
    IB Oldtimer Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Is Islam a Feminist Religion?


    A better term for "feminism" would be "major womenism", as in the West girls and women under the age of 18 are oppressed with negative "rights". Don't believe the "freedom and democracy" propaganda. The West is quite totalitarian in nature.

 

 
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