Assalamu Alaikum.
I am a new member and I have joined solely to explain the controversial issues of Islam.
I will keep them one at a time. THE MARRIAGE OF AYESHA R.A.
Why did it happen at such a young age,This is a valid question.
According to Saheeh Report,she was married at 6 and the marriage was consummated at the age 9.
1}-The Hot Climate. Back then in the extreme hot climate of Arabia.Kids actually grew faster.Am I kidding?No.
The French Philosopher Montesquieu,who was actually a staunch critic of Islam and Religion in general stated in "THE SPIRIT OF LAWS that was used in developing the American Constitution that in hot climates,women are marriageable at age 8,9,10 and by the age of 20,they were even considered old. 2. In Islam,forced marriages are not allowed.Nor can a minor be forced to marry,except under necessary circumstances.But let us consider that the hot climate did not play a part.Then this would become a marriage of a minor.And for the marriage of the minor,read the following fatwa I copied.
It is permissible for a man to arrange a marriage for his young son even if he has not reached puberty; it is also permissible for him to arrange a marriage for his young daughter even if she had not reached the age of puberty. It was narrated that there was consensus on this point, but that is provided that compatibility is taken into account and that a clear and real interest is served by this marriage.
Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the father may arrange a marriage for his young daughter without consulting her. The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah when she was six years old.
End quote from at-Tamheed, 19/98
Ismaa‘eel ibn Ishaaq (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
The father may arrange a marriage for a young (daughter) according to the consensus of the Muslims, and that is binding on her.
End quote from at-Tamheed, 19/84
Ibn Shubrumah disagreed with that, as we shall see below.
Secondly:
It is not prescribed to arrange a marriage for a young girl unless there is a clear and real interest to be served by doing so. The same applies to young boys, but the ruling is emphasized more with regard to girls because a boy has the power of divorce (talaaq).
An-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
It should be noted that ash-Shaafa‘i and his companions said: It is recommended for the father or grandfather not to arrange a marriage for a virgin until she reaches the age of puberty and he seeks her consent, lest she find herself trapped in a marriage that she resents. What they said is not contrary to the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah, because what they meant is that he should not give her in marriage before puberty if there is no clear and real interest to be served by that for which there is the fear that it will be missed by delaying marriage, such as the story of ‘Aa’ishah. In that case (i.e., if there is a clear and real interest to be served) it is recommended not to miss the opportunity to marry that husband, because the father is enjoined to take care of his children’s interests, not to neglect them.
End quote from Sharh Muslim, 9/206
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) was of the view that in the case of a girl who has reached the age of nine years it is stipulated that she give consent and he said: This is the view favoured by Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, and this is the correct view.
With regard to the girl who is younger than the age of nine years, he favoured the view that the father does not have the right to arrange a marriage. He narrated from Ibn Shubrumah (may Allah have mercy on him) that he said: It is not permissible to arrange a marriage for a young girl who has not reached the age of puberty, because if we say that that is subject to her consent, her consent does not count (because she is too young to make such decisions), and when she does reach the age of puberty we believe that she should not be forced into a marriage. The Shaykh said: This view is the correct one, that the father should not arrange a marriage for his daughter until she reaches the age of puberty, and when she reaches the age of puberty he should not arrange a marriage unless she gives her consent.
But if we assume that a man regards this suitor as compatible and he is old, and there is the fear that if he passes away and guardianship of the girl passes to her brothers, they may not take the matter of her marriage seriously and they may arrange her marriage according to their whims and desires, not according to what is in her best interests, and he thinks that it is in her best interests to arrange her marriage to someone who is compatible, there is nothing wrong with that, but she will have the choice when she grows up; if she wishes she may say: I do not agree to this and I do not want it.
If the matter is like this, then the safest option is not to arrange her marriage and to entrust her to Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. Perhaps now he thinks that this man is compatible but then the man’s situation may change, and perhaps when she reaches the age of marriage Allah will bring her a man who is better than this man, because all things are in the hand of Allah, may He be glorified and exalted.
End quote from ash-Sharh al-Mumti‘, 12/57-59
The Shaykh also favoured the view that marriage should not be arranged for a boy until he reaches the age of puberty.
Ash-Sharh al-Mumti‘, 12/53
With regard to consummation of the marriage with a minor, it does not become permissible by merely drawing up the marriage contract; rather the husband should not consummate the marriage with her until she is able to have intercourse, which is not necessarily at puberty. This is something that varies from one environment and time to another. With regard to that, sharee‘ah pays attention to physical makeup.
Thirdly:
From the words of the Muslim fuqaha’ concerning this issue, it is clear that marriage of minors is based on achieving clear and real interests thereby. If marriage of a young girl will serve some very real interest for her, then her guardian may arrange a marriage for her, but if no real interest will be served for her by that, then he does not have the right to arrange a marriage when she is still a minor, until she can choose for herself and give consent.
That is not a transgression against her rights, as may be said with regard to the trustee’s handling of the orphan’s wealth; it is permissible for him to buy and sell on his behalf without obtaining his consent, if that serve a clear and real interest and is more beneficial for him and his wealth.
The view concerning young boys is the same as that concerning young girls; it is essential for the guardian to take into consideration what interests may be achieved for the minor thereby.
This is applicable in all cases in which Islam gives permission to conduct affairs on behalf of another and gives guardianship of another. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
If a person has authority to handle the affairs or wealth of another, either as a guardian or by appointment as a proxy, it is not permissible for him to do whatever he wants; he has to choose that which is in (his ward’s) best interests.
End quote from Mukhtasar al-Fataawa al-Masriyyah, 796
Based on that, one should take the appropriate approach to the emotional aspect of this issue, because choosing the right person for the woman in terms of his character and choosing the right time for arranging this marriage is in fact paying attention to the woman’s natural and emotional needs and inclinations. Emotion here does not refer to love relationships and infatuations that may occur between young men and women; these relationships and ideas are one thing and the reality of life is something else. How many marriages have started with these relationships but soon failed, and how many marriages have started without prior acquaintance between the spouses but Allah created love, compassion, tranquillity and harmony between them, and they continued to live happily together. 3.
Hence,If we were to consider that even in that hot climate,Ayesha had not grown up,then the above condition would apply.It is to be noted that Ayesha was allredy engaged to a man before she married the prophet S.A.W. 4.
Quote to me a single Hadith where it shows that Ayesha was unpleased with the marriage,On the contrary,we see the exact opposite. 5.
Ayesha R.A quoted a great number of Hadiths,She become so learned that after the Prophet's demise,the companions of the Prophet S.A.W used to come to her and learn from her.The opposite of Christianity which does not allow a woman to teach.
Hence,Ayesha was not unpleased with the marriage.
And the marriage served great benefits for this Ummah.For this reliogion would not be completed without Ayesha R.A
Ummm, it's actually YOU who is the troll. You are always the one trolling my posts, not me trolling your posts. It is YOU who in your conceited selfrighteous leftist arrogance claiming that my daughters are being married at "unacceptable prepubescent ages", NOT me. YOU might regard it as "unacceptable", but most certainly me and my daughters don't regard it that way, and also, under Islam it is HALAL as well. A man's house is his castle, and I as a staunch staunch parental sovereigntist will raise my own offspring however I deem fit, NOT you. It is NOT your business to lecture me how I should or shouldn't raise my OWN offspring, just as YOUR offspring are 100% none of my business either. I couldn't care less what you do with them because you and them are absolutely nothing to do with me.
Explain to me how it is Halal in Islam to do this. My understanding is that even back in the days, child marriage was very rare and generally frowned upon. There is a Quranic command (4:59) to abide by the laws of the land you are currently living in, providing that they don't require you to commit a sin. So, if you live in a country where there is a law that says "no marriage under the age of XX" and you disobey that law, then you are NOT following Islam.
Last edited by fromelsewhere; 05-23-2017 at 01:34 AM.
Explain to me how it is Halal in Islam to do this.
Because there is nothing in the Quran that actually forbids it. What is not explicitly forbidden is therefore HALAL.
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
My understanding is that even back in the days, child marriage was very rare and generally frowned upon.
You are "understanding" incorrectly, probably because you are seeing it from a propagandized modern Western Cultural Marxist perspective, rather than a genuinely historical one free of the attitudinal baggage of modern day Totalitaria. There is no evidence to also show that "child marriage" was "generally" frowned upon in the past. There no doubt may have been some who frowned upon it, in just the same way that anything else imaginable in existence might have been frowned upon by some to some degree or other at any point in history. I think that if we look at the phrase "child marriage", while it has become a loaded cliché in these modern times (to which feminists have a complete meltdown over every time they hear of its occurrence), it would however not have been something even conceptualized by most people of the past. It would have been seen first and foremost simply as a marriage per se, and whether or not there may have been a child in any given marriage would have been seen by most as something pretty well irrelevant, in much the same way as "child chess player" doesn't really hold any negatively loaded connotation today. Most people just think "Well, he's a chess player... so what?"
I think any historian who is being truly honest without allowing any modern day negative sensibilities and biases to influence him would admit that it would be drawing a very long bow to assert that "child marriage" would have been "frowned upon by most" in past times. But rather it would have been a quite small minority who would have not felt positive or at least indifferent about the idea of child marriage. And if you want to go into all the history about it, you will find that child marriage wasn't "very rare" at all. It was, in fact, quite common, and even very common to the extent that it was more the norm in some civilizations.
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
There is a Quranic command (4:59) to abide by the laws of the land you are currently living in, providing that they don't require you to commit a sin. So, if you live in a country where there is a law that says "no marriage under the age of XX" and you disobey that law, then you are NOT following Islam.
Believe it or not, I would have to agree with that actually. Often I have myself reminded Muslims that they should not reside in any kuffar countries because to live with the kuffar is itself against Islamic teachings. Note well that I did say previously that anything illegal in kuffar lands I will refrain from. This is why I said that I will only allow my daughters to marry in a jurisdiction where their marriage is not actually illegal. So yes, do in Rome as the Romans do, but while outside of Rome (and therefore outside of Roman jurisdiction), do whatever the other jurisdictions allow.
Karl my friend.
I have said so.
If you want to live according to Quran,all well and fine.
But do not misquote Islam.
Marriage of an immature boy or girl is only allowed WHEN IT SERVES A REAL INTEREST FOR THEM.
I have explained this in the original post with evidences.
I have provided evidences and that is it.
Karl my friend.
I have said so.
If you want to live according to Quran,all well and fine.
But do not misquote Islam.
Marriage of an immature boy or girl is only allowed WHEN IT SERVES A REAL INTEREST FOR THEM.
I have explained this in the original post with evidences.
I have provided evidences and that is it.
Which is why (at least in my particular case) it is perfectly ok. All my offspring who I have had marry off during prepubescence actually were in agreement with my wishes anyway. If they are in agreement then the marriages therefore serve their interests!
Believe it or not, I would have to agree with that actually. Often I have myself reminded Muslims that they should not reside in any kuffar countries because to live with the kuffar is itself against Islamic teachings. Note well that I did say previously that anything illegal in kuffar lands I will refrain from. This is why I said that I will only allow my daughters to marry in a jurisdiction where their marriage is not actually illegal. So yes, do in Rome as the Romans do, but while outside of Rome (and therefore outside of Roman jurisdiction), do whatever the other jurisdictions allow.
I am very curious to know where you are living because as far as I know, there are only 6 countries in the world where there are no legal restrictions on a minimum age for marriage (and therefore, where you could technically have your unfortunate 6 and 7 year old daughters married): South Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Equatorial Guinea, Gambia, Somalia and Yemen.
Also, I wonder, have you found great men of YOUR race to marry them with and ensure a PURE genetic lineage uncontaminated by "evil feminist/Marxist/Zionist/leftist" genes?
Last edited by fromelsewhere; 05-24-2017 at 11:16 PM.
I am very curious to know where you are living because as far as I know, there are only 6 countries in the world where there are no legal restrictions on a minimum age for marriage (and therefore, where you could technically have your unfortunate 6 and 7 year old daughters married): South Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Equatorial Guinea, Gambia, Somalia and Yemen.
Actually, it's personal information which is none of your business. But I will say that where I myself live, it's not actually "legal", so naturally my daughters and their husbands have to go and live in jurisdictions where it IS legal. I won't tell you where that is though. It is in some ways unfortunate as I would like to have my daughters closer, but that's what you get in a modern Orwellian world. Why you continue to describe my daughters as "unfortunate" is baffling, given that I have already told you that they themselves are also happy about their marriages.
format_quote Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Also, I wonder, have you found great men of YOUR race to marry them with and ensure a PURE genetic lineage uncontaminated by "evil feminist/Marxist/Zionist/leftist" genes?
Of course. Their husbands of course are of our own race.
It is in some ways unfortunate as I would like to have my daughters closer, but that's what you get in a modern Orwellian world. Why you continue to describe my daughters as "unfortunate" is baffling, given that I have already told you that they themselves are also happy about their marriages.
How do you know that your daughters aren't being abused if you aren't even there for them?
How do you know that your daughters aren't being abused if you aren't even there for them?
Wives can be mistreated no matter their age, so there would be no good reason to conclude that my daughters would be less likely to be mistreated if they were hypothetically older. Furthermore, there seems to be this widespread misconception that whenever there is mistreatment by a spouse that the wife is always the "victim", but there has been plenty of evidence to show that sometimes it's the other way round, and that it is the wife who mistreats her husband. This does happen, particularly to emasculated cowardly type of husbands who put up with their nagging misandrous wives browbeating them all day.
Anyway to answer you question, me and my daughters are in regular contact, usually daily, so I know they are happy. Furthermore, we can also visit each other from time to time as well so it's not that I've become completely cut off from them. I know my sons in law well and I know they are kind good caring husbands who would never do anything to hurt my daughters.
Wives can be mistreated no matter their age, so there would be no good reason to conclude that my daughters would be less likely to be mistreated if they were hypothetically older. Furthermore, there seems to be this widespread misconception that whenever there is mistreatment by a spouse that the wife is always the "victim", but there has been plenty of evidence to show that sometimes it's the other way round, and that it is the wife who mistreats her husband. This does happen, particularly to emasculated cowardly type of husbands who put up with their nagging misandrous wives browbeating them all day.
Anyway to answer you question, me and my daughters are in regular contact, usually daily, so I know they are happy. Furthermore, we can also visit each other from time to time as well so it's not that I've become completely cut off from them. I know my sons in law well and I know they are kind good caring husbands who would never do anything to hurt my daughters.
A child that barely knows how to read, add or subtract is MUCH more likely to be abused and to not even be fully conscious of her situation. Heck, she wouldn't even know that she is being abused! Furthermore, if one of your daughters were to be seriously maltreated, she would have NO recourse... she wouldn't know what to do or how to talk about it and with whom. Kids are easy to manipulate and brainwash. They are particularly vulnerable as they are not fully developed, physically and mentally. DUH!!! (No offense but you must not be fully developed neither based on your reasoning skills).
About the bit on the wives abusing their husbands, I don't see your 6 or 7 year-old daughters abusing their husbands anytime soon , but I find it exceptionally weird that grown-up men would want to marry little girls... what for? To play dolls? "Emasculated cowardly type of husbands" (to use your expression) would be the type of perverted emasculated guys I would see marrying little girls because they wouldn't be able to handle a grown-up woman who doesn't take their BS.
And what kind of education are your daughters getting? They will grow up being ignorant, uneducated, dull, and unable to care for themselves should their husbands ever divorce them... and it will be your fault for putting them in such a vulnerable position. What a great temporary father you have been for your kids that you have abandoned so young! Now my brain is weeping since it is in a state of utter shock at the thought of what you are doing to your daughters
Note: I really want to do this to my head right now: Shame on you.
Last edited by fromelsewhere; 05-25-2017 at 10:21 AM.
fromelsewhere, please avoid taking threads off-topic. This thread is not for personal interviews.
In order to encourage us to prepare for Ramadhan and avoid unnecessary debate, I will close this thread. There are plenty of others on this topic if people wish to find out more In-sha-Allah.
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, but I find it exceptionally weird that grown-up men would want to marry little girls... what for? To play dolls? "Emasculated cowardly type of husbands" (to use your expression) would be the type of perverted emasculated guys I would see marrying little girls because they wouldn't be able to handle a grown-up woman who doesn't take their BS. .png "Emoji (17)")
Shame on you.
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