If this world as we know it is too perfect to be created out of 'randomness' then what's there not to say that something created a perfect god?
If this world as we know it is too perfect to be created out of 'randomness' then what's there not to say that something created a perfect god?
That's right, this guy believe that there can be a flying piece of steel only, bioengineering is still beyond our imagination.format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
By the way, khanali12, I should admit that there are no mentions about the creature, that you call flying horse, in Quran.
yeah but he's talking about Muhammad (saw)'s travel to the heavens and back with Burraq (or something spelled like that).format_quote Originally Posted by Elcocaloca
There is no "created". One God creates. Hope you understoodand.format_quote Originally Posted by Khanali12
Last edited by Reminder; 07-03-2017 at 01:18 AM.
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Asking who created Allah is like asking whats beyond infinity.
If there is a universe, and it runs according to laws, and matter interacts according to laws, then it is rational to come to the conclusion that there is a ruler who set those laws, if you want to continue playing "chicken or egg first?", you will end up continuing for eternity and still have no scientifically viable answer other than eternity on a dubious airhead and careless non foundation which is not logically stable and firm.
The conclusion that there is an eternal God fits the hypothesis better (as Ibrahimarrived at), and the miracles and sound and stable guidance that the Prophets and Messengers of Allah brought confirm this stronger hypothesis and the ability to logically fit what would otherwise be confusing and illogical - such as a human being splitting seas, walking on water, detailing future events into thousands of years, moving asteroids out of the way - non of these can be answered scientifically without adding an omnipotent ruler who is not heedless into the equation.
Also think, it is not possible that an eternal being begot a co-eternal son..... and it is also not possible for etetnity to come from nothing...... try to play with that in your mind, hopefully it will become easier to find the best answer.
The best scientific answer when taking into consideration all the data available is that there is an eternal ruler who is free of all needs.
فَذَلِكُمُ اللّهُ رَبُّكُمُ الْحَقُّ فَمَاذَا بَعْدَ الْحَقِّ إِلاَّ الضَّلاَلُ فَأَنَّى تُصْرَفُونَ
Such is Allah, your real Master, (and Guardian, Cherisher, and Sustainer)
after truth, what (remains) but error?
Then where are you turning away?
Quran 10:32
These are waswas of Shaytaan. You are making his job easier by posting about it and pondering about it Nauzbillah. STOP RIGHT NOW!
“The Shaytaan may come to any one of you and say, ‘Who created Allah?’ If any one of you experiences this, let him say, ‘Aamantu billaahi wa rasoolih (I believe in Allah and His Messenger),’ and that will drive him away.” (Saheeh al-Jaami’, 1657). The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The Shaytaan may come to any one of you and ask, ‘Who created the heaven?’ and he will say, ‘Allah’ The Shaytaan will say, ‘Who created the earth?’ and he will say, ‘Allah’ Then the Shaytaan will say, ‘Who created Allah?’ If any one of you experiences this, let him say, ‘Aamantu billaahi wa rasoolih.’” (Saheeh al-Jaami’, 1656).
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The people will nearly ask too many questions, so that one of them may say, ‘Allah created all of creation, but who created Allah?’ If they say this, then say: ‘Allah is the One, Allah is the Self-Sufficient Master. He begets not, nor was He begotten; and there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him’ [al-Ikhlaas 112:1-4, interpretation of the meaning], and spit (drily) to your left three times, and seek refuge with Allah from the Shaytaan.” (Saheeh al-Jaami’, 8182).
If you have doubts, look at Holy Quran. Look at the universe, you will find signs of Allah everywhere...the whole world is screaming the existence of one true Creator Allah, use your brain, use your logic. SubhanAllah, whether i look at microscopic level or macroscopic level, at the end of it there is one conclusion - our knowledge is too weak and there is One Almighty Allah who created everything and by His will, everything is functioning. There is a beauty and sophistication in His every creation whether it be at nanoscopic or at huge levels i.e heavens and earth, it is telling you that all this universe didn't create itself through some coincidence, even a retard will not believe that randomness created all this. But that everything is without a doubt created by Allah.
@Khanali12 i just watched Nouman Ali Khan's video about this very same issue. The muslims slowly go astray from the straight path, they stop remembering Allah until they start having doubts about Islam. The shaytaan starts putting these doubts, one after the other after the other, question after question...they get answer of one question and shaytaan comes up with another.
Guidance is from Allah and only Allah knows the state of your heart. If you have become one of the disbelievers and Kafir and your heart hard then any of our words wouldn't make a single dent in your heart. If Holy Prophet Mohammad (SAWW) couldn't make everyone a Muslim, who was a man of mercy, a man who everyone swore by his honesty and truthfulness (Saadiq and Ameen) even his enemies swore by this then what is the value of our words.
I just read your older posts and you are not a single bit interested in the answer to your questions. You are serving the purpose of Shaytaan giving public voice to his waswas and lies. You quote science but as a man of science myself, i can tell you are ignorant about science and i doubt you have been to a university. What you have are words of Kufar and atheists lies whom you believe without questioning and then come in here and ask us questions thinking we don't have an answer to them? It is advised to us to be kind and nice in our speech otherwise, the words i would use for ignorants would be far harsh. Let me put it simply, idiotic, stupid ignoranct men who don't know what science word means use science to justify their stupidity and if they were to utter their stupidity in room full of scientists, they would be ridiculed and laughed at, these people have the audacity to question the truth. If it wasn't matters of religion and such a serious matter, i would laugh at you, ridicule you and make so much fun of you, you would cry for uttering such stupidity about science but we have to be nice and sweet even to people whose ignorance both in science and religion can be seen from miles away. It's like a kid of 5 year old questions that prions are bacteria.
But SubhanAllah, the best answer and this is my answer is
Aamantu billaahi wa rasoolih (I believe in Allah and His Messenger (SAWW))
I believe everything Allah (SWT) has mentioned in Holy Quran and Prophet Mohammad (SAWW) told us without a doubt. May Allah guide us and keep us on the straight path and the way which Allah (SWT) is most pleased with! Ameen
format_quote Originally Posted by Khanali12
I want to point out that I clicked "like" by mistake, in fact I hate this post. Remember that this question comes from Satan and satan is the avowed enemy of mankind. According to a hadeeth shareef, Satan questions man until he asks, "Who created Allah?"
The answer is that we must say, "Aamantu billahi wa bi-rusulihee" (I believe in Allah and in His Messengers). This answer is according to the same hadeeth. Allah knows best the words of Allah's Messenger (salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam).
With such answer Satan runs away.
A human being who becomes a friend of Satan and starts following and worshipping him, is really very stupid. He is an enemy to himself. He must remember that Satan's quality is that he is an absolute enemy who is not friend to anyone. See he (the Satan) leads people to Hell which is a horrible place for living. On the Day of Judgment he will say to the dwellers of Hell, "Don't blame me, rather blame yourself"
Satan will say these words because Allah, the All-Mighty God didn't give power to Satan to force people to unbelief. This is a great and manifest kindness of our Beneficent Lord Allah that Satan has no power on us. He only invites people to unbelief and the unbelievers accept his invitation willfully. So in the Hereafter, they become punishable for ever. then they cry and curse Satan but in vain.
Thus a wise man will use his wisdom and conscience and will choose the Truth of the Holy Quraan for his own prosperity. In this way Satan "avowed enemy" shall be rejected by him/her!
Last edited by OmAbdullah; 07-12-2017 at 04:37 PM.
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format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
If Allah's final messenger did say that, the only reason I could think of would be in order to keep it short and simple for a limited audience, although the advice might better fit a sahaabah or taab'i who was not gifted with the same level of intelligence as a messenger of God is usually equipped with for the purpose of his task,
This advice has very limited logic since an idalotrous parent could also use it in order to stifle deep thought, whereas in the Quran, Allah tells us to ponder about Him,the heavens, the earth etc and to follow the best and most just and truthful way.
See here for more (I cannot attest to the complete authenticity since the Quran which is more authentic refutes some statements found in what has been presented as the gospel of barnabas.
http://www.barnabas.net/index.php/ch...brahams-father
The same can apply to poltiicians:
017:42'Then said Abraham: "O father, what shall I do if I shall serve one god and another shall wish me evil because I serve him not? In any wise there will come discord between them and so war will arise among the gods. But if perchance the god that willeth me evil shall slay my own god, what shall I do? It is certain that he will slay me also.
The old man, laughing, answered: "O son, have no fear, for no god maketh war upon another god; nay, in the great temple there are a thousand gods with the great god Baal; and I am now nigh seventy years old, and yet never have I seen that one god hath smitten another god. And assuredly all men do not serve one god, but one man one, and another another."
'Abraham answered: "So, then, they have peace among themselves?"
'Said his father: "They have."
'Then said Abraham: "O father, what be the gods like?"
'The old man answered: "Fool, every day I make a god, which I sell to others to buy bread, and thou knowest not what the gods are like!" And then at that moment he was making an idol. "This," said he, "is of palm wood, that one is of olive, that little one is of ivory: see how fine it is! Does it not seem as though it were alive? Assuredly, it lacks but breath!"
'Abraham answered: "And so, father, the gods are without breath? Then how do they give breath? And being without life, how give they life? It is certain, father, that these are not God."
'The old man was wrath at these words, saying: "If thou wert of age to understand, I would break thy head with this axe: But hold thy peace, because thou hast not understanding!"
'Abraham answered: "Father, if the gods help to make man, how can it be that man should make the gods? And if the gods are made of wood, it is a great sin to burn wood. But tell me, father, how is it that, when thou hast made so many gods, the gods have not helped thee to make so many other children that thou shouldest become the most powerful man in the world?"
'The father was beside himself, hearing his son speak so;
the son went on: "Father, was the world for some time without men?''
" Yes," answered the old man, "and why?"
"Because," said Abraham, "I should like to know who made the first God."
"Now go out of my house!" said the old man, "and leave me to make this god quickly, and speak no words to me; for, when thou art hungry thou desires bread and not words."
'Said Abraham: "A fine god, truly, that thou cuttest him as thou wilt, and he defendeth not himself!"
'Then the old man was angry, and said: "All the world saith that it is a god, and thou, mad fellow, sayest that it is not. By my gods, if thou wert a man I could kill thee!" And having said this, he gave blows and kicks to Abraham, and chased him from the house.'
:
قُل لَّوْ كَانَ مَعَهُ آلِهَةٌ كَمَا يَقُولُونَ إِذًا لاَّبْتَغَوْاْ إِلَى ذِي الْعَرْشِ سَبِيلاً {
Say: If there had been (other) gods with Him, as they say,- behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne!
قُل لاَّ أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلاَ ضَرًّا إِلاَّ مَا شَاء اللّهُ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لاَسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ إِنْ أَنَاْ إِلاَّ نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ {188
007:188
:
Say: "I possess no power of benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I had the knowledge of the Ghaib (unseen), I should have increased for myself of all good, and no evil should have touched me. I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings unto people who believe."
Last edited by Abz2000; 07-11-2017 at 06:27 PM.
Actually i've graduated with a degree in Engineering from a reputable university.format_quote Originally Posted by STN
So did they teach you about buildings that create themselves?format_quote Originally Posted by Khanali12
When i said atheists are ignorant, they're ignorant because they only scratch the surface and don't even bother to reach the true limits of science. So big bang, right but where did planets come from? from gigantic cloud of gas and dust in space, where did those gas and dust come from? Where did space come from when there could have been nothingness.
It's stupid to think that a building would create itself when all the materials are right there but it's super smart to believe this whole universe and the lifeforms in it which we haven't even completely discovered yet just came into existence by itself with the right temperatures and conditions with the right balance of creatures and only one highly intelligent species above all others. And it just so happens that there isn't another intelligent species to threaten our existence even though the universe just came into existence by itself but it is favoring us. What's beautiful about all of this is that everything is at the right balance, the sun could've come close to us and killed all the life forms but nope, it stays at just the right distance because when randomness happens, it does everything to the perfection.
But there's some sad reality about it too, the human bodies decided to have a time limit to die. What a coincidence, it created itself with such a delicate DNA framework but it imposed upon itself hayflick's limit, loss of regeneration. I mean when you think of it, a human body evolved to such intelligent design but it couldn't fix the major flaws with it.
I rephrase: Atheists are the dumbest of people you will find. The stupid things they believe in with certainty, no intelligent man can. Shaytaan(devil) sure has eaten their brain.
(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
Masha-Allah (as Allah willed), I am happy for you that you have graduated from a reputable university with a degree in engineering. I have also graduated from one of the top law schools yet I have never thought that meant that I was automatically intelligent enough to comprehend spiritual truths that are not learned in any universities or schools but through imbibing of religion at the feet of sincere and trustworthy scholars and measured practice of tasawwuf (Islamic spirituality) under the guidance of a guide. Please understand that bookish knowledge is one thing and sacred knowledge another. Even, however, should you not be able to grasp that reality, I should hope you'd at least understand that there are people in this world who might be some graduates of the best universities but are people who turned out to be failures in life.format_quote Originally Posted by Khanali12
For example, have you heard about the man who graduated from Harvard who was still last seen living on the streets? Success in worldly life comes from street-smarts and not book-smarts. In that same way, success in spiritual life comes from spiritual smarts. The question therefore is and has never been whether Allah existed or exists but how you or anyone can gain the spiritual smarts to attain the level of witnessing which allows you to experience the certainty that Allah exists, that is, haqqul-yaqeen (certainty gained through experience) mentioned in the Qur'an. However, like everything in life, haqqul-yaqeen is only the stage which follows from other progressive stages, namely ilmul-yaqeen (certainty through knowledge) and ainul-yaqeen (certainty through seeing). However, to gain anything in life, you have to move towards it as a sincere seeker, as if you don't know anything and become like a baby who is willing to learn and automatically sincerely learning what it is taught.
Sincere Regards & Best Wishes,
Growing up in school whenever i asked how did the scientist know this or that, i would always be greeted with the answer that i shouldn't ask too many questions or the teacher would say i don't know. But i should still believe that science is correct. As i've completed university level education, i realize it's because nobody has the answers and science for the most part is speculation and theories. Even still, everyone and some ignorant people especially the ones graduating from high level universities (because the name and reputation matters more to these type of people than actual knowledge) think science is absolutely correct about everything when even the greatest scientist would tell you that they don't know why certain things act the way they do and where did something came from into existence today. I know because i will be a scientist inshaAllah, i am a microbiologist and i want to become a research in this field and i find the stupidity of some people hilarious, when science can't even answer how a small organism like bacteria or virus or prions function completely or the structures inside it then how the hell would it know about the creation of the universe when we can't even go back in history (no time-travel).
But when it comes to religion, they want the answer to everything. Isn't it idiotic that the same people believe in man made B.S without a doubt but when it comes to matter of grave importance such as the afterlife, they don't believe and want proofs after proofs after proofs.
I will tell you why, because Shaytaan doesn't gain anything from their belief in science so they don't get any doubts or waswas but in matters of religion and belief, Shaytaan hates it for he is the enemy of humans and doesn't want them to succeed and go to Jannah so they create these doubts and idiotic thoughts like this guy is getting.
They reject the Holy Quran because if they were to try to discredit it, they would find truth in it and oh no Shaytaan doesn't want that so he discourages them from even reading it. History is full of scientists who tried to understood what the Holy Quran was saying and ended up screaming that there is Only One God Allah and this Holy Quran is the truth.
So i ask the admins or moderators to please change the thread title, this guy isn't going to gain anything but this disgusting question that is a waswa from Shaytaan, i have to read and get notified about it. To him, the miracle of the miraj is unbelievable but believing in buildings and the immense number of Allah's creations (Alhamdulillah) and this infinite universe that science hasn't even found the limits of yet and admits to never being able to find it, coming into existence by itself is more believable so how can you argue with such an idiot and make him see reason.
Khanali12 I do think this is a ‘legit’ question to ask and you have the right to do so.format_quote Originally Posted by Khanali12
After reading the posts here, I feel that some of the answers by my respected brothers and sisters were unnecessarily harsh and seemingly attacked the person rather than the view. I hope they will reflect on this.
I cannot comment on your previous posts as I have simply not read them and can only go with what I see here.
Anyway, moving on, let me ask you a question to think about Khanali12, I guess we can agree on one thing that we are alive today and therefore we exist today.
We can also agree we as humans were all born from our mothers and fathers and likewise we can say the same for them and their progeny. In other words, a continuous chain of creation in a sense.
We as human beings exist on this planet which is part of a universe, which arguably resulted from the big bang according to common scientific thought now. Hence, continuing this chain of creation.
Now those that believe in a creator would say the Creator created the universe.
Now we come to your point which is who created the creator?
Well you don’t have to stop there, who created the creator that created the creator? And so on…
This chain of creators goes on forever.
Now if this infinite ‘chain of creators’ which eventually resulted in us being created actually went on forever i.e. infinity, would we ever have be created or exist today?
Last edited by Sho Islam; 07-16-2017 at 11:57 AM. Reason: stress my point further
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