× Register Login What's New! Contact us
apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?
Page 3 of 5 First 1 2 3 4 5 Last
Results 41 to 60 of 98
  1. #1
    Array hatsoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    25
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    92
    Rep Power
    62

    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you? (OP)


    It's fairly well-accepted in the west that open-mindedness is a virtue. But in Islam this does not seem to be the case, at least when it comes to one's religious beliefs. Apostasy is shunned in Islam, to the point where apostates rightfully fear for their lives.

    Now, if I was in that position, I would be deeply disturbed by the fact that I wasn't completely free to follow the evidence where it leads, and to believe what the evidence indicates is true. Muslims are threatened with death, among other punishments, as a consequence for pursuing doubt.

    So, my question is this: How do you Muslims feel about that lack of freedom? Does it bother you that you're threatened with punishment, even up to death, for doubting Islam, should you come to lose your faith?

    I guess the question itself might be hard to answer, because if you say "yes" then you risk backlash from your fellow Muslims. But we shall see.

    Thanks!
    3 | Likes czgibson, ahmed.ishaaq, happymuslim liked this post

  2. #41
    Bushwackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,356
    Threads
    129
    Reputation
    50330
    Rep Power
    79
    Likes (Given)
    8589
    Likes (Received)
    6173

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Report bad ads?

    seems I've picked up a fan tut tut

    - - - Updated - - -

    Atheist Agrees "You Cannot Deny God"

    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?


  3. Report bad ads?
  4. #42
    AntiScimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    15
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    6
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
    "Allah gives guidance to those who seek it."
    What it means is that if you sincerely seek guidance,God will reward you for your sincerity.
    Secondly.
    "It is almost as if they believe their own religion is valid and 100% true."
    What this implies is that people generally consider that religion to be the ultimate truth,which they are taught in their childhood.
    That is why,The Quran is the only book,which encourages CRITICAL THINKING.
    IT does not say just believe.It says that YOU DO YOUR RESEARCH,THINK CRITICALLY,ASK CRITICAL QUESTIONS,INSPECT EVERY ELEMENT,AND THEN BELIEVE.BECAUSE SUCH PROCESS WILL LEAD YOU TO TRUTH RIGHT?AND THE TRUTH FEARS NO INVESTIGATION.
    Hence,The Quran says:
    " Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an, or are there locks upon [their] hearts?" 47:24
    Here,The Quran is encouraging critical thinking.
    "When it is said to them: "Follow what Allah hath revealed:" They say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?" (Surah Al-Baqara, 170)

    "What their forefathers can also mean,the religion in which they are born to.Since,They follow the religion of their parents and consider it to be the ultimate truth.
    You mentioned "God-Shaped hole" in the heart.Then,this is your answer.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...ord-study.html


    I would argue that Islam does not promote critical thinking. In fact, there's heavy censorship on anything anti-islamic in the countries of egypt, Saudi, and qatar.
    It even says in the quran, on

    9:4: Excepted are those whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient towards you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their term. [has ended] Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [Who fear Him.]

    And that's honestly okay, complete your treaty with polytheists, no harm no foul. Until the next verse

    9:5: And wjen the inviolable months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you ind them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait or them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakat, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is forgiving and Merciful.

    I would call this the antitheses of forgiving and merciful. I would call it blood thirst and vengeful. I can understand attacking your enemies, but attacking those who have had your good faith for a while isn't very merciful at all. I think that's the "critical thinking skills" that your religion has to offer.

    In a verse addressing apostates directly, in

    4:89 They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away then sieze them and kill them wherever you find them and not take from among them any ally or helper.

    It continues in 4:91
    You will find others who wish too obtain security from you and obtain security from their peoeple. Every time they are returned to disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And thos we have made for you against them a clear authorization.

    Too me, it doesn't look like your book preaches critical thinking at all. It's either, you're with us or against us. Join our religion or DIE. The reason why you have contradictory verses, like 47:20 and 4:91, is because of the change of power that happened to Muhammad and his companions. They went from peasant merchants, to rulers and kings. The quran reflects that when it starts calling for death instead of critical thinking.

    - - - Updated - - -or he
    Just answer my question.
    Do you think that a person who goes out of the fold of Islam,even when the reasons and his arguments,which lead to his apostacy have been debunked by the scholors,is sincere and is a rational being?

    I would say that they're probably asking the wrong questions about their religion. Yes, generally I would consider someone in this scenario irrational. But, the fact of the matter is that I have never been approached by a muslim, or anyone religious for that matter, with something so profound I entered the fold of the religion again.


    - - - Updated - - -

    I saw my post wasn't linked as a reply, so I'm making sure you got it.

    Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
    "Allah gives guidance to those who seek it."
    What it means is that if you sincerely seek guidance,God will reward you for your sincerity.
    Secondly.
    "It is almost as if they believe their own religion is valid and 100% true."
    What this implies is that people generally consider that religion to be the ultimate truth,which they are taught in their childhood.
    That is why,The Quran is the only book,which encourages CRITICAL THINKING.
    IT does not say just believe.It says that YOU DO YOUR RESEARCH,THINK CRITICALLY,ASK CRITICAL QUESTIONS,INSPECT EVERY ELEMENT,AND THEN BELIEVE.BECAUSE SUCH PROCESS WILL LEAD YOU TO TRUTH RIGHT?AND THE TRUTH FEARS NO INVESTIGATION.
    Hence,The Quran says:
    " Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an, or are there locks upon [their] hearts?" 47:24
    Here,The Quran is encouraging critical thinking.
    "When it is said to them: "Follow what Allah hath revealed:" They say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?" (Surah Al-Baqara, 170)

    "What their forefathers can also mean,the religion in which they are born to.Since,They follow the religion of their parents and consider it to be the ultimate truth.
    You mentioned "God-Shaped hole" in the heart.Then,this is your answer.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...ord-study.html


    I would argue that Islam does not promote critical thinking. In fact, there's heavy censorship on anything anti-islamic in the countries of egypt, Saudi, and qatar.
    It even says in the quran, on

    9:4: Excepted are those whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient towards you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their term. [has ended] Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [Who fear Him.]

    And that's honestly okay, complete your treaty with polytheists, no harm no foul. Until the next verse

    9:5: And wjen the inviolable months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you ind them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait or them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakat, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is forgiving and Merciful.

    I would call this the antitheses of forgiving and merciful. I would call it blood thirst and vengeful. I can understand attacking your enemies, but attacking those who have had your good faith for a while isn't very merciful at all. I think that's the "critical thinking skills" that your religion has to offer.

    In a verse addressing apostates directly, in

    4:89 They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away then sieze them and kill them wherever you find them and not take from among them any ally or helper.

    It continues in 4:91
    You will find others who wish too obtain security from you and obtain security from their peoeple. Every time they are returned to disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And thos we have made for you against them a clear authorization.

    Too me, it doesn't look like your book preaches critical thinking at all. It's either, you're with us or against us. Join our religion or DIE. The reason why you have contradictory verses, like 47:20 and 4:91, is because of the change of power that happened to Muhammad and his companions. They went from peasant merchants, to rulers and kings. The quran reflects that when it starts calling for death instead of critical thinking.

    - - - Updated - - -or he
    Just answer my question.
    Do you think that a person who goes out of the fold of Islam,even when the reasons and his arguments,which lead to his apostacy have been debunked by the scholors,is sincere and is a rational being?

    I would say that they're probably asking the wrong questions about their religion. Yes, generally I would consider someone in this scenario irrational. But, the fact of the matter is that I have never been approached by a muslim, or anyone religious for that matter, with something so profound I entered the fold of the religion again.

  5. #43
    Bushwackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,356
    Threads
    129
    Reputation
    50330
    Rep Power
    79
    Likes (Given)
    8589
    Likes (Received)
    6173

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post

    I would argue that Islam does not promote critical thinking. In fact, there's heavy censorship on anything anti-islamic in the countries of egypt, Saudi, and qatar.


    Keep arguing we'll keep munching popcorn

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    Just answer my question.
    Do you think that a person who goes out of the fold of Islam,even when the reasons and his arguments,which lead to his apostacy have been debunked by the scholors,is sincere and is a rational being?

    I would say that they're probably asking the wrong questions about their religion. Yes, generally I would consider someone in this scenario irrational. But, the fact of the matter is that I have never been approached by a muslim, or anyone religious for that matter, with something so profound I entered the fold of the religion again.
    God does not guide the insincere people - which would mean - you are not chosen to be guided.

    Of course, you can prove me wrong by accepting Islam as your faith in sincerity, and worshipping Allah, but if it's insincere then you become an hypocrite.

    Also, your natural position as of now, is one of atheism... but you might just be misotheist.

    peace
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?


  6. #44
    AntiScimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    15
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    6
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    It's funny, how you never replied or said anything against my assertions and/or verses that talked about death and the killing of apostates. But you still have that, "Checkmate atheist" feel to you.

  7. Report bad ads?
  8. #45
    Bushwackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,356
    Threads
    129
    Reputation
    50330
    Rep Power
    79
    Likes (Given)
    8589
    Likes (Received)
    6173

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    It's funny, how you never replied or said anything against my assertions and/or verses that talked about death and the killing of apostates. But you still have that, "Checkmate atheist" feel to you.
    what you've ranted is typical atheist drivel, that's why.

    I think you're a misotheist. Not an atheist!
    Last edited by Bushwackk; 12-19-2017 at 05:21 PM.
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?


  9. #46
    AntiScimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    15
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    6
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    It's not typical "atheist drivel" as much as it is you ignoring blatant problems with your religion, and muslims as a whole. You will ignore facts when they are right in front of your face, and aren't very concerned with the idea of discussion. It's funny how you blame atheists for that, calling them "irrational" for doing things like this, but here's an atheist RIGHT in front of you who wants a discussion. It seems very irrational of you.

  10. #47
    Bushwackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,356
    Threads
    129
    Reputation
    50330
    Rep Power
    79
    Likes (Given)
    8589
    Likes (Received)
    6173

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    It's not typical "atheist drivel" as much as it is you ignoring blatant problems with your religion, and muslims as a whole. You will ignore facts when they are right in front of your face, and aren't very concerned with the idea of discussion. It's funny how you blame atheists for that, calling them "irrational" for doing things like this, but here's an atheist RIGHT in front of you who wants a discussion. It seems very irrational of you.
    Name me a fact? The competing theories from the evolutionary models, which number 6?

    The fact that you don't have a clue about the actual origins of this universe based on empiricism?

    The fact that you use linguistic gymnastics which do not even appeal to sanity in order to push theories as supposedly well established fact?

    your hubris is cute, but it's also cliche. Which makes it the same tired drivel.

    One more fact, i've clearly rattled your cage for you to join here with an handle like "AntiScimitar" you got my attention, but i'm disappointed in your rhetoric!
    1 | Likes DanEdge liked this post
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?


  11. #48
    AntiScimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    15
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    6
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Name me a fact? The competing theories from the evolutionary models, which number 6?
    I would say that the most recognized theory of evolution would probably be Darwin's and that of natural selection.

    The fact that you don't have a clue about the actual origins of this universe based on empiricism?
    I don't think that empiricism is a a good stance for discerning the origins of the universe, since what judaic-christian religious would tell us intelligent design, but what we observe in our world isn't anything remotely close to intelligent design. It also leads to a "leap of faith" if you will on your part. First you have to assert god, then you have to actually prove WHICH god. The jump to the Ihe judaic-chritian god is just as viable as the Buddhist god.

    The fact that you use linguistic gymnastics which do not even appeal to sanity in order to push theories as supposedly well established fact?
    I don't use linguistic gymnastics, every question anyone has ever asked me has been answered or rebutted head on. Nail and hammer.
    To further this, I would say that you've employed a lot more linguistic gymnastics than I have, especially since you can't seem to talk about those awful verses in your holy scripture.

    your hubris is cute, but it's also cliche. Which makes it the same tired drivel.
    I think that your constant spew of ad hominem would say more about your hubris than mine, friend

    One more fact, i've clearly rattled your cage for you to join here with an handle like "AntiScimitar" you got my attention, but i'm disappointed in your rhetoric!
    No, I chose the moniker AntiScimitar because I figured it would be the best way to get your attention. Put something up in your face that you honestly can't ignore. Seems to be working.





  12. #49
    Bushwackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,356
    Threads
    129
    Reputation
    50330
    Rep Power
    79
    Likes (Given)
    8589
    Likes (Received)
    6173

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    Name me a fact? The competing theories from the evolutionary models, which number 6?
    I would say that the most recognized theory of evolution would probably be Darwin's and that of natural selection.


    Darwin himself didn't believe in his own theory lol.

    But let's put that to the side for now and investigate the fallacy which is called dawrinism:



    Did you catch Aron Ra's lie? He got stick for that from the scientific community, in case you didn't know!

    But let's not move past your claim that evolution is a fact - it has clearly been proven that it is not a "fact".

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    The fact that you don't have a clue about the actual origins of this universe based on empiricism?
    I don't think that empiricism is a a good stance for discerning the origins of the universe, since what judaic-christian religious would tell us intelligent design, but what we observe in our world isn't anything remotely close to intelligent design. It also leads to a "leap of faith" if you will on your part. First you have to assert god, then you have to actually prove WHICH god. The jump to the Ihe judaic-chritian god is just as viable as the Buddhist god.
    We don't even claim that, you got it wrong. Our position is axiomatic. God exists and we know this! Simple. We don't have to use any method to prove God exists, when there are signs all around us but only discernible to those who have a sound intellect. Not trying to belittle your one trick pony argument, but your hubris remains highly unjustified by the bar you yourself set as someone who holds "science" as his method for understanding his existence. The fallacy appears in the fact that before the revival of the scientific method, you would claim no one could work out their raison d'etre. Funny thing is, I don't see an example of this from history because people were not having existential crisis due to their investment in their belief in God.



    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    The fact that you use linguistic gymnastics which do not even appeal to sanity in order to push theories as supposedly well established fact?
    I don't use linguistic gymnastics, every question anyone has ever asked me has been answered or rebutted head on. Nail and hammer.
    To further this, I would say that you've employed a lot more linguistic gymnastics than I have, especially since you can't seem to talk about those awful verses in your holy scripture.
    You're about to claim ad hominem aren't ya? I can see it, because you are a typical misotheist. That's no ad hominem, that's a factual observation! You don't have to like it, but the truth is never convenient. I would know, I used to be an apostate and atheist in my late teens to mid twenties!

    Let me explain, for the purpose of clarifying to you, what a misotheist is - it's someone who claims he or she is an atheist, but actually beleives God exists yet hates God - thus, they spend their time attempting to refute the reason for God.

    What's cute, is the fact that you can't admit this.

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    your hubris is cute, but it's also cliche. Which makes it the same tired drivel.
    I think that your constant spew of ad hominem would say more about your hubris than mine, friend
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, I'm not your "friend"... your repetitive drivel oft pops up on this forum if you do a search. Previous members who identified with atheism spewed the same nonsense... one or two are still regular members but they, in their honesty, wanted to learn about Islam so they do not "straw man" a Muslim. I can respect that! You on the other hand, I cannot! You're full of straw men!

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    One more fact, i've clearly rattled your cage for you to join here with an handle like "AntiScimitar" you got my attention, but i'm disappointed in your rhetoric!
    No, I chose the moniker AntiScimitar because I figured it would be the best way to get your attention. Put something up in your face that you honestly can't ignore. Seems to be working.


    Yeah, you got my attention, but it was short lived - now you're just boring me!

    Bring me a fresh argument, something that hasn't been debunked already! If I respond, it will be because I got excited - but if I don't, know this - you didn't try hard enough!

    peace


    Last edited by Bushwackk; 12-19-2017 at 05:51 PM.
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?


  13. Report bad ads?
  14. #50
    AntiScimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    15
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    6
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Darwin himself didn't believe in his own theory Whether or not darwin believed in god, doesn't have anything to say about his theories.

    But let's put that to the side for now and investigate the fallacy which is called dawrinism
    Is that why it took you so long to reply? Because you had to look through a two hour video to it? For your red herring too? Nah. But, I will watch it when I have two hours down time.

    We don't even claim that, you got it wrong. Our position is axiomatic. God exists and we know this! Simple. We don't have to use any method to prove God exists, when there are signs all around us but only discernible to those who have a sound intellect. Not trying to belittle your one trick pony argument, but your hubris remains highly unjustified by the bar you yourself set as someone who holds "science" as his method for understanding his existence. The fallacy appears in the fact that before the revival of the scientific method, you would claim no one could work out their reason d'etre. Funny thing is, I don't see an example of this from history because people were not having existential crisis due to their investment in their belief in God.

    Like, I said earlier, saying that god is self evident isn't a good position at all. I think that you think your position is axiomatic, as a direct result of the world and how it's evolved around you. You say, "Look it's so perfect! Must be god." This train of thought doesn't lead to any questions. That's my problem with it. It leads to a self-evident fallacy.

    It's not interested in looking for the actual origin, you'll just end up stuck on god. Also, you who identifies as a Muslim HAS to believe in the Judaic-christian god, while others can claim their own personal god. While the assertion of an axiomatic world only inserts, "God."

    I think I would argue that the scientific method is a separate entity from d'etre. Since d'etre by definition is a reason to live, and the scientific method is a tool used to align your experiments. Science is a tool to discern the truth, it isn't interested in things like a reason to live.

    Your cute little thought revolution video is nice, but it's an appeal to consequences. Meaning, that it doesn't actually discuss the validity of your position, rather it quite simply talks about it's desirability. Therefore, it's rejected.

    You're about to claim ad hominem aren't ya? I can see it, because you are a typical misotheist. That's no ad hominem, that's a factual observation! You don't have to like it, but the truth is never convenient. I would know, I used to be an apostate and atheist in my late teens to mid twenties!
    I think you probably thought this looked nice, but you can't say, "CALLED IT" on a forum, since you have to actually READ before you can make a response. I would call Ad Hominem on things such as saying that I'm full of hubris, saying that I spew drivel, ect. Attacks on character and not the actual arguments themselves basically.

    Let me explain, for the purpose of clarifying to you, what a misotheist is - it's someone who claims he or she is an atheist, but actually beleives God exists yet hates God - thus, they spend their time attempting to refute the reason for God.

    What's cute, is the fact that you can't admit this

    I know what a misotheist is, but I wouldn't call myself one. Quite simply, because I genuinely don't spend my time of the day, going to every single Islamic forum on the internet refuting god. I happened to stumble across this one, I decided to make my stances known, and I'm generally having a lot of fun doing it. But sadly, this is also another red herring since it doesn't actually have anything to do with your position on an axiomatic world.


    Yeah, you got my attention, but it was short lived - now you're just boring me!

    Bring me a fresh argument, something that hasn't been debunked already! If I respond, it will be because I got excited - but if I don't, know this - you didn't try hard enough!
    I have a feeling that you're going to respond. Quite simply because you don't like the idea of someone having an opinion contrary to yours.

  15. #51
    Zafran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Earth -UK
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    2,688
    Threads
    17
    Reputation
    12630
    Rep Power
    71
    Likes (Given)
    1041
    Likes (Received)
    515

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    I can honestly relate to your situation. Except it's the exact opposite. My parents are muslim, and I live with them. When I told them about my views on their religion, I was punished, my life was made hell. I was cut off from friends, and I was shunned until I re-entered the religion. Honestly, I doubt either of our situations will improve the way we want them too until we move out. If my kids decide to become religious, would I put them through this situation? Hell no. I relate to the mockery, and the ridicule, and the punishment.

    It's not apostates who take away your freedom, but it's people without tolerance that take freedom away. Like your family, and mine.

    Dude you got family issues - coming to IB isn't going to solve your problem and lashing out with boring atheist claims is not going to make your situation any better. You need to plan long term.

    Even if all of us agreed with you, which is futile as your like the millionth atheist to make the same claims - your still going to be in the same place.

    peace
    2 | Likes DanEdge, Bushwackk liked this post
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim

  16. #52
    Bushwackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,356
    Threads
    129
    Reputation
    50330
    Rep Power
    79
    Likes (Given)
    8589
    Likes (Received)
    6173

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    AntiScimitar - You've bored me. These are all very regurgitated attempts at sounding clever but doing you no favours here. Do yourself a favour, get educated! Become interesting, and do a better job of "not believing in God" because far as I can tell - you believe in God, but you just don't want to! You're a misotheist

    Peace
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?


  17. #53
    AntiScimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    15
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    6
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Wait, I thought if I bore you, you weren't going to reply? Called it.
    And am I the one trying to sound smart? When the minute your weak argument falls apart, you claim that I'm boring you? Telling me to, "Get Educated" seems to be advice you should apply to yourself.
    But of course, you could prove me wrong by actually tying to have a discussion.

    And no, under no circumstance will I ever believe in god. Me being an atheist/misotheist isn't relevant to this discussion whatsoever.


    - - - Updated - - -

    No, it's fine. I'm moving out in March actually, back to a country where I'm TOTALLY free to be an apostate.

  18. #54
    Futuwwa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,240
    Threads
    10
    Reputation
    5709
    Rep Power
    50
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    582

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    So when are you two annihilating each other?
    1 | Likes fromelsewhere liked this post

  19. Report bad ads?
  20. #55
    Bushwackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    DAWAH DIGITAL HQ
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,356
    Threads
    129
    Reputation
    50330
    Rep Power
    79
    Likes (Given)
    8589
    Likes (Received)
    6173

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa View Post
    So when are you two annihilating each other?
    Say what?

    Bro, chill. the guy has run off... they always do!
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?


  21. #56
    air's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    35
    Threads
    1
    Reputation
    13
    Rep Power
    8
    Likes (Given)
    31
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيم

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    I'm saying that people don't do things that animals do, because we are humans. Our societies have RULES, through many years of social selection. Criminals are "selected" out by going to jail (or whatever punishment is due in your society.) It even adds as incentive to not do, "Bad" things. You certainly don't need a religion to tell you right from wrong buddy.
    People do things that animal do!

    You claim that our societies have rules, are you sure it's our? societies have different opinions about rules, every society is likely to have differences of opinion in categorizing what is good and what is bad. For us, religion is the chosen rules of our society, so your rules is your rules while ours is ours, and you can't tell us why we should not follow what we think is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    You are very right, we follow morals set by our society and/or worldview. Because it's a social construct.
    I don't "follow" science. Science is a tool to explain the natural world, but it can't explain how you'll chose to live your life.
    To clarify, there are things I know and believe (Like how the earth orbits around the sun) because it's backed by EVIDENCE. That doesn't mean that I "follow" science it just means that it's a tool that explains the world around me. It's entirely up to me to make my own assertions.

    My main contention with you, thus far, is the idea that you need to, "Follow" something. Make your own choices about life.

    The statement that, "Science is essentially a contradictory and ever changing amalgamation of theories and hypothesis which do nothing have any factual basis." is entirely false. Plain and simple. Science aims for measurable results through testing and analysis.
    The fact is, unlike religion, science doesn't make assertions without EVIDENCE.
    A lot of theists toss around, "theory" and "hypothesis" interchangeably, but a theory is one of the highest honors something can receive in the scientific world, that's because "theories" are only found through constant testing and observation. In fact, the scientific method calls for repeated experimentation until the observation is indistinguishable from the theory.

    Theist scientists in nature are biased. It's not a scientist's JOB to tell you whether or not you should believe in your god. It's a scientist's job to inform others so they can understand, and make conclusions of the natural world. That being said, a theist scientist first and foremost will always try to prove their god. This of course leads to discrepancies that can be contended.


    It's statements like, this above me. Is why I'm here. For one, "Atheist Science" is simply "Science". That's because Science's job isn't to prove or disprove your god. Atheists USE science as a way to gain understanding of their natural world, and therefore the validity of claims produced by a religion. The "lies" you claim are simply observations of our natural world.

    What I would call a, "lie" is the entire, "anti-science" agenda that theists tend to have. Especially since your religion attempts, a cute but albeit futile, attempt to prove itself. It's almost like you'll only use science when it supports your agenda and muslim worldview.
    Agree with you that science is just a 'tool', so there should be no Atheist tools (Atheist math?), scientist have different opinion whether there is a Creator of this world or no, one side don't believe because it simply can't be proven with the current tools and claim that this is natural, and the others believe that there should be a cause for everything, world just exists out of nowhere is not acceptable something Super should exists but they don't have the right tools for measuring it or the current tools simply is not capable. So science is not simply Atheist Science.

    We even haven't capable to explore all stars in the universe, or go the deepest of ocean, yet claim the Creator is not exists?

    Don't wasting your time telling us our believe is a 'lie', for us something can't be proven is not a 'lie', it's questionable. We believe the correct tools for knowing the Creator is exists with eeman, signs, and the Holy Qur'an, while you are limiting your tools.

  22. #57
    AntiScimitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    15
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    6
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    People do things that animal do!

    You claim that our societies have rules, are you sure it's our? societies have different opinions about rules, every society is likely to have differences of opinion in categorizing what is good and what is bad. For us, religion is the chosen rules of our society, so your rules is your rules while ours is ours, and you can't tell us why we should not follow what we think is right.
    No, if you actually read what I've said, I said that morality is a social construct. You've basically just described that. Your in Islam follow a judaic-christian sort of morality, eye for eye. Tooth for tooth, ect

    Agree with you that science is just a 'tool', so there should be no Atheist tools (Atheist math?), scientist have different opinion whether there is a Creator of this world or no, one side don't believe because it simply can't be proven with the current tools and claim that this is natural, and the others believe that there should be a cause for everything, world just exists out of nowhere is not acceptable something Super should exists but they don't have the right tools for measuring it or the current tools simply is not capable. So science is not simply Atheist Science.

    It's all honestly a difference of opinion. Some scientists have faith, and other scientists say that faith has nothing to do with a religious setting.If you ask about the world popping into existence, I could just as easily ask about god popping into existence, but the fact of the matter is that you can't have infinite regress, on either side. That's why atheists, like myself, would just say they don't know. That being said, there isn't a cause for everything. An Intelligently designed world would LOVE for you to believe that their is, but, you have an entire set of organs in your body that have lost their evolutionary function, they have no cause whatsoever.

    We even haven't capable to explore all stars in the universe, or go the deepest of ocean, yet claim the Creator is not exists?
    I don't think that actually matters, we're not going to suddenly "run" into god. So far, a "creator" hasn't done anything to reveal himself.

    Don't wasting your time telling us our believe is a 'lie', for us something can't be proven is not a 'lie', it's questionable. We believe the correct tools for knowing the Creator is exists with eeman, signs, and the Holy Qur'an, while you are limiting your tools.

    I'm not telling you to believe in anything, what you want to believe in is entirely up to you. I just think your "tools" are a bit faulty. You have what? A god that doesn't show up. Signs that never happened, self-fulfilling prophecies, and a book that's pretty flawed. But yeah, I'm totally limiting my tools.

  23. #58
    sister herb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    9,169
    Threads
    334
    Reputation
    55871
    Rep Power
    110
    Likes (Given)
    6164
    Likes (Received)
    7288

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiScimitar View Post
    I'm not telling you to believe in anything, what you want to believe in is entirely up to you. I just think your "tools" are a bit faulty. You have what? A god that doesn't show up. Signs that never happened, self-fulfilling prophecies, and a book that's pretty flawed. But yeah, I'm totally limiting my tools.[/INDENT]
    My tools give me peace to my mind and that´s a lot to get. What your tools give to you? A hand full of dust and when the wind blows it away, nothing left.

    Goodbye and thanks for the ignore button.
    Last edited by sister herb; 12-21-2017 at 10:25 PM.
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




  24. #59
    Desert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    210
    Threads
    28
    Reputation
    271
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    53
    Likes (Received)
    39

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    I have a mental disorder that I didn't understand so well and so I would say words of disbelief to myself all because I had some sort of mental fear
    So I don't know how Islam would deal with me
    I would get upset and say things like I am Christian!

  25. Report bad ads?
  26. #60
    sister herb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    9,169
    Threads
    334
    Reputation
    55871
    Rep Power
    110
    Likes (Given)
    6164
    Likes (Received)
    7288

    Re: apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert View Post
    I have a mental disorder that I didn't understand so well and so I would say words of disbelief to myself all because I had some sort of mental fear
    So I don't know how Islam would deal with me
    I would get upset and say things like I am Christian!
    We have to trust that Allah knows what is in our hearts, also in kind of situations like yours when some sort of disorder happens because of disease. It isn´t same like a person who really is disbeliever.
    1 | Likes Search liked this post
    apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.




  27. Hide
Page 3 of 5 First 1 2 3 4 5 Last
Hey there! apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you? Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. apostasy in Islam, how does it affect you?
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Apostasy Islam
    By Dy77778 in forum Discover Islam
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 04-12-2017, 02:22 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-18-2016, 05:55 PM
  3. Apostasy in Islam
    By Skywalker in forum Worship in Islam
    Replies: 93
    Last Post: 03-14-2007, 08:50 AM
  4. Islam and Apostasy
    By Ansar Al-'Adl in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 159
    Last Post: 08-03-2006, 02:07 AM
  5. How Islam affect our lives
    By al-fateh in forum Miscellaneous
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-17-2006, 03:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create