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  1. #1
    rebelutionary's Avatar
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    Fairness of God?

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    How fair is the god of Islam?

    Its something I only find emotionally charged replies, most people are like you don't know the full story of the others you perceive to be living the life. They give examples of rich being inflicted with disease as if it only comes to the rich, there ratio of sick poor people is higher than sick rich people. About prophets facing great hardship but always fail to mention they had direct intervention, today if I get thrown into a put of fire it will not do me such favors nor even if I was born in such an era. I find it absurd to expect us to follow such people when they were made superior by Islamic standards. Its like asking toyota corolla to perform like a ferrari. Nor were they encompassed in a riba based banking system or confronted with evolution.

    I come from the subcontinent. I grew up seeing that the only way to make it better in life is to lie cheat and steal even the so called religious people the huzurs are very slimy.

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    ahmed.younes's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Life is a test. That is why god sent us prophets to be examples for us, and to guide us. Prophets faced the hardest tests of life, and they did have direct intervention, but that doesn't mean god will not/does not intervene on our behalf.. You don't know how god works. Moreover, we believe that righteous, and pious, people inherit the prophets knowledge to a certain extent.

    All people get afflicted with disease obviously, but the disease you seem to be talking about is that of the heart. It is more likely to afflict the rich as having wealth is a bigger test then not having wealth, but poor people get afflicted with this disease as well, as you have shown us that you are a thief, and all you do is lie and cheat. This is a disease in the heart, and it is a lack of purity thereof, which is why you behave in a wicked manner.

    Life is hard, it's not easy. That's why you, and everyone else, have to strive for the truth.
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    rebelutionary's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Life is a test. That is why god sent us prophets to be examples for us, and to guide us. Prophets faced the hardest tests of life, and they did have direct intervention, but that doesn't mean god will not/does not intervene on our behalf.. You don't know how god works. Moreover, we believe that righteous, and pious, people inherit the prophets knowledge to a certain extent.
    Lets start with that, some people have it easy while others don't. Isn't that also signs of favoritism and nepotism? We do not have direct intervention do we? Do you have an angel coming down to you with any message? There are some people who also claim to have received such and a lot of Muslims say thats from shaitan, quite convoluting. They had it easy consider this, during Ferauns time did he have the advantage of having the CIA/NSA or modern artillery power at his disposal? Were they shown proof of evolution? How widespread was science?

    All people get afflicted with disease obviously, but the disease you seem to be talking about is that of the heart. It is more likely to afflict the rich as having wealth is a bigger test then not having wealth, but poor people get afflicted with this disease as well, as you have shown us that you are a thief, and all you do is lie and cheat. This is a disease in the heart, and it is a lack of purity thereof, which is why you behave in a wicked manner.
    Come to the Indian subcontinent several decades ago this was the poorest place on earth and some parts of it still are. The rich people that you see here did lie cheat and steal to get to where they are where as the honest people are immersed in poverty. When such a stark proof is right in front of the eyes, Islam becomes a very questionable belief.

    Life is hard, it's not easy. That's why you, and everyone else, have to strive for the truth.
    heard of the term trust fund babies?

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    ahmed.younes's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    How do you know what people are going through? While they have it easy or not is not for you to judge. Only god truly knows what's happening in their hearts. A lot of the richest people in the world suffer from depression, and insomnia. Research it if you don't believe me.

    other.
    [5:3] "This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion."Our religion is completed, and perfect, and nobody can add or change anything to it.

    First of all, there is no proof for the theory of evolution. 2nd of all how is the CIA NSA thing relevant? 3rd you're being very vague, and illusive. Get some concrete claims then come back, because at this point you're just throwing around random sentences, which is not making any sense.
    Salam
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    'Abd-al Latif's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelutionary View Post
    Lets start with that, some people have it easy while others don't. Isn't that also signs of favoritism and nepotism? We do not have direct intervention do we? Do you have an angel coming down to you with any message? There are some people who also claim to have received such and a lot of Muslims say thats from shaitan, quite convoluting. They had it easy consider this, during Ferauns time did he have the advantage of having the CIA/NSA or modern artillery power at his disposal? Were they shown proof of evolution? How widespread was science?
    Sorry to butt in but no it's not favouritism. Some people are chosen to be managers and CEOs at companies because of their skillset, knowledge and experience. It's the same with Prophets and Messenger - God is best placed to decide who should be chosen for this purpose. Today Islam has come to everyone and people, without compulsion, are given a choice to accept it. I'll leave it to someone else to elaborate on this answer as I don't want to tread on anybody's toes.

    EDIT:

    As a point of clarification - prophets and messengers were given divine guidance from the Almighty Himself. Their mission was to convey this knowledge to all of mankind and were instructed not to keep any divine knowledge secret. Therefore, we do not need to have direct intervention, angels, etc from Allah as we have the speech of Allah, the eternal message the Qur'an with us. This along with the tradition of Prophet Muhammad () is our source of guidance.

    Come to the Indian subcontinent several decades ago this was the poorest place on earth and some parts of it still are. The rich people that you see here did lie cheat and steal to get to where they are where as the honest people are immersed in poverty. When such a stark proof is right in front of the eyes, Islam becomes a very questionable belief.

    heard of the term trust fund babies?
    Islam cannot be blamed for the actions of ignorant Muslims. A perfect business plan cannot be blamed of imperfection just because the workers refused to apply it properly. Islam is perfect. Muslims are not. It's also important to note that India isn't even considered a Muslim country. It's considered Hindu.
    Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 12-27-2017 at 04:00 PM.
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    Fairness of God?

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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    rebelutionary's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmed.younes View Post
    How do you know what people are going through? While they have it easy or not is not for you to judge. Only god truly knows what's happening in their hearts. A lot of the richest people in the world suffer from depression, and insomnia. Research it if you don't believe me.

    other.
    [5:3] "This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion."Our religion is completed, and perfect, and nobody can add or change anything to it.

    First of all, there is no proof for the theory of evolution. 2nd of all how is the CIA NSA thing relevant? 3rd you're being very vague, and illusive. Get some concrete claims then come back, because at this point you're just throwing around random sentences, which is not making any sense.
    Salam
    Mental illness is not confined just to the rich, the poor have it too. You need to research since you cannot see such among the economically disadvantaged. A lot of times the poor do not even have the resources to diagnose. It is better to be sick and rich versus sick and poor, thats just common sense. Do you have empirical data suggesting that depression and insomnia only occurs amongst people who are economically advantaged?

    You must be profoundly daft to say that there is no proof of evolution. The CIA/NSA was brought up in references to Feraun he did not have such a power at his disposal. If looked into it at a fair comparison modern first world leaders hold far greater power, they use such agencies to further their cause at a very discrete level.

    How is Allah fair when he gives it all to the arabs? They get all the prophets they all the books in their language while the rest of us get nothing. We have to go out of our way to learn it. Also look at how the arabs treat the workers from the indian subcontinent, yet Allah keeps giving them more.

    In the modern world the doctrines of Islam are much harder to adhere too yet the companions of the Prophets are considered the best generation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif View Post
    Sorry to butt in but no it's not favouritism. Some people are chosen to be managers and CEOs at companies because of their skillset, knowledge and experience. It's the same with Prophets and Messenger - God is best placed to decide who should be chosen for this purpose. Today Islam has come to everyone and people, without compulsion, are given a choice to accept it. I'll leave it to someone else to elaborate on this answer as I don't want to tread on anybody's toes.
    If the companies manufactured the people then yes this example would stand valid. If the creator made me with the skill set of an entry level worker and expects me to perform like a CEO or strive to be like him, how is that a merciful creator?

    EDIT:

    As a point of clarification - prophets and messengers were given divine guidance from the Almighty Himself. Their mission was to convey this knowledge to all of mankind and were instructed not to keep any divine knowledge secret. Therefore, we do not need to have direct intervention, angels, etc from Allah as we have the speech of Allah, the eternal message the Qur'an with us. This along with the tradition of Prophet Muhammad () is our source of guidance.



    Islam cannot be blamed for the actions of ignorant Muslims. A perfect business plan cannot be blamed of imperfection just because the workers refused to apply it properly. Islam is perfect. Muslims are not. It's also important to note that India isn't even considered a Muslim country. It's considered Hindu.
    How comes prophets werent sent in an era of video cameras that way we would have concrete proof of their ethos. If you think the Indian subcontinent is just India, you my friend need to catch up on some geography. The Quran doesn't talk about prophets in other parts of the world, are we that insignificant? only arabs and bani israel deserve such mercy?
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    ahmed.younes's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    True richness or happiness Is feeling closeness to allah (swt), and peace in your heart, not having money or a luxurious car. And I did not say that the poor don't have mental illnesses or don't get insomnia.. I only said look at the research of the richest people in the world, and how most of them need a ton of medication just to be able to go to sleep at night. Go watch documentaries on how the most famous of people have become sad, and depressed, regardless of their lavish lifestyles.

    Darwin himself said that he has no proof for his theory. It is a mere observation that became popular amongst western universities and scientists, because it was the only explanation they had to offer. Until today, most scientists refute this hypothesis as there is no continual substantial to support it. If we were monkeys, why did the other monkeys stop evolving, and why did we humans stop evolving?

    Just because prophets were arab, doesn't give arabs an advantage at anything except for their ability to read arabic, but that is a small advantage, which barely carries any weight, because the Arabic language of the quran is different, and is a whole science of its own. Moreover, only 15% of arabs are muslims, meaning that 85% of muslims are non-Arabs who had to learn Arabic from scratch. And just for arguments sake, history has proven that the most civilized and populated areas were that of the arab regions today, so it is only logical to send the prophets there in order to spread the message effictvely..

    Feraun was very powerful. He had soldiers everywhere, and because of the nature of the houses at that time, it was very easy to eavesdrop... How else could he of killed all of the male newborns if he didn't know what was going on? Feraun had a huge army and had the capability to kill everybody, and not be bothered by others, while the CIA actually can't do that due to rivaling nuclear powers, which, if confronted, will lead to Mutual Assured Destruction with nuclear-war. To the contrary, it is arguable that Feraun had more power, and capabilities then the CIA, or whomever else it may be, because of the lack of rivaling nations.

    Don't judge Islam based on what "muslims" do. Judge Islam on what the messenger (SAW), and his companions did, and the message that they conveyed. Islam teaches justice and equality between all peoples of different ethnicities. And how do you know Allah is giving the arabs more? Maybe he's just giving them more money, just so that they can go further astray from the remembrance of Allah (SWT).

    The companions had the guidance of the prophet (pbuh), which is the true guidance. And at the prime time of the prophet (pbuh), and his companions, there was no unrest or rebellion against islam, like there is nowadays, which means back then it was easier to facilitate the practicing of Islam, unlike today.

  10. #8
    'Abd-al Latif's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelutionary View Post
    If the companies manufactured the people then yes this example would stand valid. If the creator made me with the skill set of an entry level worker and expects me to perform like a CEO or strive to be like him, how is that a merciful creator?
    You've understood this all wrong. You're not asked to be a prophet or messenger and you never will be asked to become one. Your task is to follow their guidance as it will lead you to worshipping Allah as He wants to be worshipped. All the prophets and messenger do is tell you how to worship God, just like a CEO tells you how to do your job, and nothing more. This makes the Almighty a merciful creator because He's not tasking you with leading mankind but to protect yourself from hell fire and an unhappy life. Part of following their guidance means inviting other people to Islam but you are not held responsible if they refuse.

    How comes prophets werent sent in an era of video cameras that way we would have concrete proof of their ethos. If you think the Indian subcontinent is just India, you my friend need to catch up on some geography. The Quran doesn't talk about prophets in other parts of the world, are we that insignificant? only arabs and bani israel deserve such mercy?
    The Qur'an says that Prophets and Messengers were sent to every single nation in the world. This means there was once a prophet or messenger sent to the people who lived in the area presently known as India. I misread your post and mistakenly thought you were referring to the country India and not the subcontinent. Nevertheless, here is a verse from Qur'an proving this:



    "And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth)." (16:36)

    The only difference between Prophet Muhammed () and all other prophets and messengers before him is that Prophet Muhammed is the last and final messenger for all of mankind and we are all required to follow him whereas the others were sent just for their people.

    Still think Allah isn't merciful?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 12-28-2017 at 05:59 PM.
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    Fairness of God?

    And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.”
    [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]



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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Bismillah,

    Some people are tested with wealth, while others are tested with poverty, some with sickness, some with fitness. The greater amount of suffering you undergo in this life, and the more patient and obedient you remain, the more prosperous you will be in the Hereafter.
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    Mahir Adnan's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    you are from subcontinent!! "
    you might know Dr. zakir naik.
    why don't you listen to him?
    God of Islam is Allah who is beneficent. please visit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHxyQPJQuw
    -----
    if you have any question on evolution, you can ask me.
    --------
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHxyQPJQuw

    Lessons From Surah Ar Rahman - Nouman Ali Khan - YouTube
    Like DigitalMimbar on Facebook: http://www.fb.com/TheMimbar Follow DigitalMimbar on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/DigitalMimbar First Lecture during the 20......

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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99sobi View Post
    Bismillah,

    Some people are tested with wealth, while others are tested with poverty, some with sickness, some with fitness. The greater amount of suffering you undergo in this life, and the more patient and obedient you remain, the more prosperous you will be in the Hereafter.

    In this modern day an age, poverty means that your test will be super hard.


    Really?


    The probability of you failing a harder test is much higher.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahir Adnan View Post
    you are from subcontinent!! "
    you might know Dr. zakir naik.
    why don't you listen to him?
    God of Islam is Allah who is beneficent. please visit - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHxyQPJQuw
    -----
    if you have any question on evolution, you can ask me.
    --------
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRHxyQPJQuw

    Lessons From Surah Ar Rahman - Nouman Ali Khan - YouTube
    Like DigitalMimbar on Facebook: http://www.fb.com/TheMimbar Follow DigitalMimbar on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/DigitalMimbar First Lecture during the 20......
    Zakir Naik Banned in Bangladesh!
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    czgibson's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif View Post
    The Qur'an says that Prophets and Messengers were sent to every single nation in the world. This means there was once a prophet or messenger sent to the people who lived in the area presently known as India.
    Does anybody know which prophets were sent to the following nations?

    Australia
    China
    Japan
    UK
    USA

    Peace
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelutionary View Post
    In this modern day an age, poverty means that your test will be super hard. Really?The probability of you failing a harder test is much higher.- - - Updated - - -Zakir Naik Banned in Bangladesh!
    provided that someone loves this worldly life more than akhirah. Moreover, who endures trials and tribulations will be rewarded more than his maximal expectations
    Last edited by azc; 03-19-2018 at 04:59 PM.

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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelutionary View Post
    In this modern day an age, poverty means that your test will be super hard.


    Really?


    The probability of you failing a harder test is much higher.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Zakir Naik Banned in Bangladesh!
    Maybe avoid zakir naik. Iv heard he has some unsavoury views..

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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelutionary View Post
    Mental illness is not confined just to the rich, the poor have it too. You need to research since you cannot see such among the economically disadvantaged. A lot of times the poor do not even have the resources to diagnose. It is better to be sick and rich versus sick and poor, thats just common sense. Do you have empirical data suggesting that depression and insomnia only occurs amongst people who are economically advantaged?

    You must be profoundly daft to say that there is no proof of evolution. The CIA/NSA was brought up in references to Feraun he did not have such a power at his disposal. If looked into it at a fair comparison modern first world leaders hold far greater power, they use such agencies to further their cause at a very discrete level.

    How is Allah fair when he gives it all to the arabs? They get all the prophets they all the books in their language while the rest of us get nothing. We have to go out of our way to learn it. Also look at how the arabs treat the workers from the indian subcontinent, yet Allah keeps giving them more.

    In the modern world the doctrines of Islam are much harder to adhere too yet the companions of the Prophets are considered the best generation.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If the companies manufactured the people then yes this example would stand valid. If the creator made me with the skill set of an entry level worker and expects me to perform like a CEO or strive to be like him, how is that a merciful creator?



    How comes prophets werent sent in an era of video cameras that way we would have concrete proof of their ethos. If you think the Indian subcontinent is just India, you my friend need to catch up on some geography. The Quran doesn't talk about prophets in other parts of the world, are we that insignificant? only arabs and bani israel deserve such mercy?
    Excuse me? Since when did arabs get all the favour? Islam is primarily based off of the arabic language because of the location. We cannot change thr birth place of the prophet pbuh? The Quran was sent down to us all. If you want non arab islamic figures you have plenty: bilal ra sauda ra, osama ibn zayd ra, zayd ibn haritha ra etc.

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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    provided that someone loves this worldly life more than akhirah. Moreover, who endures trials and tribulations will be rewarded more than his maximal expectations
    Oh wow what logic... just because someone doesn't want to be in poverty it means that they love the dunia more!

    Way to go!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1 View Post
    Excuse me? Since when did arabs get all the favour? Islam is primarily based off of the arabic language because of the location. We cannot change thr birth place of the prophet pbuh? The Quran was sent down to us all. If you want non arab islamic figures you have plenty: bilal ra sauda ra, osama ibn zayd ra, zayd ibn haritha ra etc.

    Dude seriously? The Quran is in Arabic, look at the amount of resources the Arabs have. Thats nothing? Most prophets mentioned in it are in or around arabia, no mention of other parts of the world. If it was meant for the whole world where is mention of China India and other places?

    There is a reason why it is called an Abrahamic faith. The chosen people are of his lineage!
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelutionary View Post
    Oh wow what logic... just because someone doesn't want to be in poverty it means that they love the dunia more!

    Way to go!

    - - - Updated - - -




    Dude seriously? The Quran is in Arabic, look at the amount of resources the Arabs have. Thats nothing? Most prophets mentioned in it are in or around arabia, no mention of other parts of the world. If it was meant for the whole world where is mention of China India and other places?

    There is a reason why it is called an Abrahamic faith. The chosen people are of his lineage!
    The quran is in arabic because rhats the language the prophet spoke. The prophet pbub couldnt read or write so how else was he gonna get the Quran revealed to him?

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    rebelutionary's Avatar
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1 View Post
    The quran is in arabic because rhats the language the prophet spoke. The prophet pbub couldnt read or write so how else was he gonna get the Quran revealed to him?
    The prophet was arab and came to the arabs he could have come to other parts of the world or at least speak about us who are not living in arabia.

  23. #19
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelutionary View Post
    The prophet was arab and came to the arabs he could have come to other parts of the world or at least speak about us who are not living in arabia.
    How was the prophet gonna come to india? They had no planes back then you know. Besides Islam was sent down for everyone from all times
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    Re: Fairness of God?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1 View Post
    How was the prophet gonna come to india? They had no planes back then you know. Besides Islam was sent down for everyone from all times
    Also hows he gonna know abt folk in Asia etc?

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