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  1. #1
    Deborahmarie's Avatar
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    Old testament laws.

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    Hello again my friends,
    Just to let you know a little of my background before I ask a question of you all. I wasn't born in a "Christian" home although my parents were good people . I started going to a Baptist Church when I was 13 when I met my now husband , he had to go with his family so I went along too. I was in this Baptist Church and others like it for the next 20 years .
    However I started to ask more questions which my pastor or church friends couldn't answer , I studied the bible only to realize that it contained many mistakes and contradictions and didn't know which "version" was the right one . I also stopped reading the letters of Paul as these were not consistent with the teachings of Jesus.
    I studied a few other Faith's and visited other churches but none felt right to me. I have not stopped my love for God but have no interest in being in church.
    Now I know Muslims believe in the Torah and the gospel of Jesus , but my problem is still the same as when I counted myself as Christian . We do not (and rightly so in my opinion) observe all the laws written in places such as Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Things like if your son disobeys take him to the gates and Stone him to death , or do not wear clothes of mixed fibres etc etc.
    So where does Islam stand on such things ?
    Thanks again for your time .

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    anatolian's Avatar
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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborahmarie View Post
    Hello again my friends,
    Just to let you know a little of my background before I ask a question of you all. I wasn't born in a "Christian" home although my parents were good people . I started going to a Baptist Church when I was 13 when I met my now husband , he had to go with his family so I went along too. I was in this Baptist Church and others like it for the next 20 years .
    However I started to ask more questions which my pastor or church friends couldn't answer , I studied the bible only to realize that it contained many mistakes and contradictions and didn't know which "version" was the right one . I also stopped reading the letters of Paul as these were not consistent with the teachings of Jesus.
    I studied a few other Faith's and visited other churches but none felt right to me. I have not stopped my love for God but have no interest in being in church.
    Now I know Muslims believe in the Torah and the gospel of Jesus , but my problem is still the same as when I counted myself as Christian . We do not (and rightly so in my opinion) observe all the laws written in places such as Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Things like if your son disobeys take him to the gates and Stone him to death , or do not wear clothes of mixed fibres etc etc.
    So where does Islam stand on such things ?
    Thanks again for your time .
    Islam has new laws for all issues. Children must be respectful to their parents but there is no stonning. There is not a rule regarding wearing a certain type of clothes but just men should wear manly clothes and women should wear womanly clothes.

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    Deborahmarie's Avatar
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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Hello,
    Thank you for your reply , that is good to know . Are laws listed in the Quran for me to look at ? Or just throughout the book as a whole ?

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    anatolian's Avatar
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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Yes throughout the book as a whole. You must read entire Quran.
    1 | Likes sister herb liked this post

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    Deborahmarie's Avatar
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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Ok thanks , I'm getting there Old testament laws.

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    Re: Old testament laws.

    One thing that warrants clarification is that whem the Quran talks about taurat (Torah) and injeel (the Gospel), it refers to the specific revelations granted to Moses and Jesus. Not the specific books we know as the Bible, or any subset of it.
    1 | Likes muslimah_B liked this post

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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Quran is a book that gives you the solution to the problems you face. Please spend time to watch Ahmed Deedat's documentary that speaks volumes about Quran and Bible!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXIMZNElFZo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH6pdBjye0Q
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3JX9NWEwNs

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Futuwwa View Post
    One thing that warrants clarification is that whem the Quran talks about taurat (Torah) and injeel (the Gospel), it refers to the specific revelations granted to Moses and Jesus. Not the specific books we know as the Bible, or any subset of it.
    Rightly said brother!
    1 | Likes muslimah_B liked this post

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    anatolian's Avatar
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    Re: Old testament laws.

    But still "Taurat" can be found in Torah and "Injeel" can be found in the Gospels. This is what I understand from Quran. However, Quran is a new law for all mankind including Jews and Christians.

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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborahmarie View Post
    Hello again my friends,
    Just to let you know a little of my background before I ask a question of you all. I wasn't born in a "Christian" home although my parents were good people . I started going to a Baptist Church when I was 13 when I met my now husband , he had to go with his family so I went along too. I was in this Baptist Church and others like it for the next 20 years .
    However I started to ask more questions which my pastor or church friends couldn't answer , I studied the bible only to realize that it contained many mistakes and contradictions and didn't know which "version" was the right one . I also stopped reading the letters of Paul as these were not consistent with the teachings of Jesus.
    I studied a few other Faith's and visited other churches but none felt right to me. I have not stopped my love for God but have no interest in being in church.
    Now I know Muslims believe in the Torah and the gospel of Jesus , but my problem is still the same as when I counted myself as Christian . We do not (and rightly so in my opinion) observe all the laws written in places such as Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Things like if your son disobeys take him to the gates and Stone him to death , or do not wear clothes of mixed fibres etc etc.
    So where does Islam stand on such things ?
    Thanks again for your time .
    Hi Deborah
    My family are also Baptist and i had similar thoughts to you regarding Paul

    Ok so in Islam we believe in the Torah and gospel as was revealed to their respective prophets alayhis salam in their original form not the distorted versions changed by men we have

    Some prophets like Moses Jesus and Muhammad sallaho alayhi wa sallam were sent with codes of laws for their people but some of the laws were abrogated by

    For example Moses alayhis salam came with a law but when Jesus alayhis salam was sent by Allah some of the rulings he came with abrogated some of the law of Moses

    As Muhammad sallaho alayhi wa sallam was the final messenger from Allah the law he was sent with abrogated the laws of the other prophets (though many rulings remained the same for example not eating pork)

    (Going off on a tangent here but it was necessary for God to send a final messenger as the Jews and Christians distorted the religions of their respective prophets alayhis salam so they barely even resembled them anymore (think for example what Jesus alayhis salam taught and the paulianity we have today)
    Old testament laws.

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    Deborahmarie's Avatar
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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Thank you all for taking the time to reply . Will carry on with my learning .

  14. #11
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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Greetings Deborahmarie.

    People of the Book believe in the creation Adam and his battle with Satan and how it affects humanity. So the thing is that we humans learnt about Allah through the teachings of the messengers. In the Quran it mentions 4 Books and although there were many others I am certain, only 4 were mentioned by name (the Psalms, the Torah, the Gospels and the Quran) and with the Quran not being superfluous with words I wondered why specifically these were mentioned. It appeared as though there was a message behind the mention of these specific Books.

    If I were to take a look at the Books in terms of its basic underlying theme, I came to the conclusion that the Psalms is closest to what in islam we call 'tawhead' which is about Allah, praises and prayers etc. The Torah brought human dynamics which, in simplified terms; to do unto others what you would expect others to do unto you. Unfortunately the guideline was twisted to become an eye for an eye which encouraged revenge... (all the work of Satan to always twist the spirit and good intentions into something else) hence Jesus via the Gospels taught 'to turn the other cheek', forgiveness and elevate oneself to a higher spiritual level whilst at the same time repeating that he was not there to change any laws given previously (which had been manipulated over the generations).

    When the spirit of forgiveness was readily accepted by the population at large, it was time for the final revelation to descend. And with the entire package in place, people's belief in Allah, people willing to do unto others what they would like to have done to themselves, and able to forgive one another, then laws for living in a community can be revealed. The Quran gave quite specific laws on governing communities. It emphasises equitability, protecting the weak, being firm but having humility, being charitable etc.

    Hence the purpose of the previous scriptures were to nurture the people, to give guidance that Allah felt necessary, in accordance to the awareness intellectually at that time. It was not deemed necessary to have them all preserved except the final one.

    Food for thought.

    We muslims follow Abraham's God, Adam's God, which is also Noah's and Moses' God, and of course Jesus (pbuta) who prayed by putting his head to the ground, fasts during lent (I'm informed 40 days, we muslims now have it easier slightly, 30 days, Allah is Most Merciful!) Jesus was circumcised, ate kosher foods, very much in-line with what we muslims do (or should be doing). We can absolutely say that we follow Jesus, and with Muhammad pbuh being the successor (and the final prophet) he would surely be following in Jesus' footsteps in the practice of worshipping Allah. So best to follow prophet Muhammad's example because if we are still following the practice of Jesus from following the example of prophet Muhammad pbuh, I can say that we are on the right path. It has remained consistent. It has not changed. Allah has guaranteed it for us, if we want to believe in His signs. If He has preserved the practice now over 2000 years, how incredible is that? But I believe that it is not a question of "If" Allah has preserved the practice, but a sign that He has the Power to do so and to act as a Sign for those who want to believe. Yet it is so subtle and somehow almost insignificant.

    Islam only has one meaning. Submission. We submit entirely to the Will of Allah. We will be patient and we will be thankful and appreciative.

    Hope I make sense.


    Welcome to the forum and wishing you a great stay.



    Old testament laws.

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    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.

  15. #12
    Silas's Avatar
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    Re: Old testament laws.

    One important thing that I would add as this relates to Christianity

    Many forget that Jesus proclaimed a "new and everlasting covenant" between himself and all people: this covenant is a binding contract between humanity and God that supercedes, but does not necessarily cancel, the covenant of Abraham. So the laws within Leviticus are less relevant than the dictates established by Jesus.

    And if we look at the Quran, Muslims believe it is the final, and most complete, revelation of God, that contains new commands and dictates. The "old laws" are less significant when juxtaposed against the new, and final laws.

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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silas View Post
    Many forget that Jesus proclaimed a "new and everlasting covenant" between himself and all people:
    Really? Where does Jesus say this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silas View Post
    And if we look at the Quran, Muslims believe it is the final, and most complete, revelation of God, that contains new commands and dictates. The "old laws" are less significant when juxtaposed against the new, and final laws.
    I am not a Muslim, I follow the Old Testament. The Old Testament is not a law book. Christians are confused because they mistranslate the Hebrew "ha-torah" as "the Law" when it really means "the teaching". The Old Testament is fundamentally a book about ethics. Jesus did his best to try to uphold the old covenant but he failed because his followers got confused. If anyone introduced a new covenant, that would be Muhammad. But the Quran is actually entirely consistant with the moral teachings of the Old Testament. What differs are some practices, like daily prayer instead of the sabbath. Christianity is just hopelessly lost and doesn't even attempt to follow God's will.
    Last edited by fschmidt; 01-24-2018 at 05:41 AM.
    Old testament laws.


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    Re: Old testament laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by fschmidt View Post
    Really? Where does Jesus say this?


    I am not a Muslim, I follow the Old Testament. The Old Testament is not a law book. Christians are confused because they mistranslate the Hebrew "ha-torah" as "the Law" when it really means "the teaching". The Old Testament is fundamentally a book about ethics. Jesus did his best to try to uphold the old covenant but he failed because his followers got confused. If anyone introduced a new covenant, that would be Muhammad. But the Quran is actually entirely consistant with the moral teachings of the Old Testament. What differs are some practices, like daily prayer instead of the sabbath. Christianity is just hopelessly lost and doesn't even attempt to follow God's will.
    There are several places we need to look to see this concept of a "new and everlasting covenant"

    Luke 22:20: in the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you"

    Mat 26:28: For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

    Galatians 3:23-25 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster



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