We have all the instructions we need, I am not sure what another prophet could do.
Muslims claim similarly that Islam provides all the rules necessary for the perfect justice system as well as for every day life in general. Many times I heard that the Islamic scriptures provide the solutions for all modern problems.
That's a huge claim to make, now, can you back it up and prove it ?
The answer is "No".
There has never been a perfect or close to perfect Islamic State.
I tried to address that claim on one of my "Closed" threads with no convincing answers.None of the more than 50 countries with Muslim majority implements 100% sharia.
How is that possible ? So perfect that not even Muslims dare to adopt it.
My personal opinion is that Muslims know deep inside that those regulations would never work in this modern world.They need to be updated, but how ?
You cannot update and change God's rules with man made ones.
I would love to see an 100% sharia country.
Imaging walking thru the streets and noticing people with missing hands, others missing feet and limbs.
Approaching the park you can witness an adultery stoning.
Further up the street there is a public execution of a gay person, you cover your eyes from the sun because they're going to drop him from a tall building.
Just another day in a perfect world.
How much longer do we have to wait for it ?
Disclaimer: The previous imaginary scenario is based purely on my own research. No disrespect intended.
So let me understand you:
Since westerners have raped Muslim women in the past we will not care nor feel sorry for western women been raped by Muslims.
You ungrateful piece of ----. Europe and America have been taking millions of Muslims who in some cases swim their way to the west asking for the help Muslims Countries in many cases denies them. Are you aware that many Muslim Countries won't take any Muslim refugees no matter how desperate the situation. Europe give them homes, social benefits and money every month.
That doesn't count as "stopping our people from suffering"? So you're not going to thank us for that??
What are you doing for the Christian communities that are being attacked in Egypt and many other Muslim countries??
People like you give a bad name to the rest of Muslims.
Whatever...you think by mass murdering people and removing them from their homes and then welcoming refugees all of a sudden make you some sort of what..saint? Please. I am not thanking you for <censor>. I swear if it wasn't for the disbelievers who placed their hands on affairs that did not matter with them and did not go ahead and put corrupted leaders to oppress us to take our resources, kill us, murder us, rape our women and children..then say come here we are you savior...we would not even come to the Western world period. Every sentence above shows HOW ARROGANT the lots you are. Please leave this forum...you WILL NOT BE MISSED. The biggest indication of your arrogance and I have never seen more arrogant than the atheists. The mere fact you disbelieve in existence of God period shows how bald and arrogant you are, where in fact you should cower at the corner and piss your pant
Last edited by xboxisdead; 09-25-2018 at 06:48 AM.
Oh, so that's what you understood when I asked, where is the perfect Islamic country ??
You thought I was looking for a perfect country ONLY FOR MUSLIMS, the rest don't matter, you couldn't care less.
The 'perfect Islamic country' is one that rules a region (efficiently) using Sharia to make legislation.
I gave an example of several empire's managing to do so or becoming pretty close to doing so, whether or not you like them or think you'd be oppressed when living in said empires is irrelevant.
I also fail to see how any oppression took place in any of those empires.
I WISH I could have met you in real life and we could have been friends in real life!! Such strength and common sense and not afraid to speak your mind!!
I've had the honour to meet brother Abz2000 when he used to live in London... quite a few years ago now.
EXACTLY, why don't you explain that to the Islamic Police who over and over and over fail to understand it.
why dont you do that.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
On the facade of the Ministry of Justice in Paris, just below a ground-floor window, is a marble shelf engraved with a horizontal line and the word ‘MÈTRE’. It is hardly noticeable in the grand Place Vendôme: in fact, out of all the tourists in the square, I was the only person to stop and consider it. But this shelf is one of the last remaining ‘mètre étalons’ (standard metre bars) that were placed all over the city more than 200 years ago in an attempt to introduce a new, universal system of measurement. And it is just one of many sites in Paris that point to the long and fascinating history of the metric system.
“Measurement is one of the most banal and ordinary things, but it’s actually the things we take for granted that are the most interesting and have such contentious histories,” said Dr Ken Alder, history professor at Northwestern University and author of The Measure of All Things, a book about the creation of the metre.
It is also one of only two denominations (the other being the cent) minted in every year from its inception during the first decade of mint operation. However, the order was given by President Thomas Jefferson to halt silver dollar production due to the continued exportation of U.S. dollars. The Spanish 8 Reales, which was slightly heavier than the U.S. dollar, nonetheless traded at a 1-to-1 77ratio. So U.S. dollars went to the Caribbean, were traded for heavier 8 Reales, and those were then brought back to the U.S., where they would be recoined for free into more U.S. dollars; the difference in silver, then, was kept by the exporter. This ensured that no dollars would circulate in the U.S., but would instead be exported for their heavier counterparts overseas, leaving little but old, foreign money to circulate in the United States in a process known as Gresham's Law.
The 1804 silver dollar was actually produced in 1834, when the U.S. Department of State decided to produce a set of U.S. coins to be used as gifts to rulers in Asia in exchange for trade advantages. Since 1804 was the last recorded year of mintage for both the dollar and $10 Eagle, it was decided that the set would contain examples of those coins dated 1804, as well as the other denominations currently being produced. Mint officials, not realizing that the 19,000+ dollars recorded as being produced in 1804 were all dated 1803, proceeded to make new dies dated 1804.
With the Mint Act of 1853, all U.S. silver coins, except for the U.S. silver dollar and new 3 cent coin, were reduced by 22.9% as of weight with arrows on the date to denote reduction. The U.S. silver dollar was continued to be minted in very small numbers mainly as a foreign trade to the Orient.
The international trading partners did not like the fact that U.S. coins were reduced in weight. The use of much more common half dollars became problematic since merchants would have to separate higher value pre-1853 coins from the newer reduced ones. From 1853 onwards, trade with Asia was typically done with Mexican coins that kept their weight and purity in the 19th Century.
Each coin is composed of 0.77344 troy oz of silver. They were minted at Philadelphia, New Orleans, Carson City, and San Francisco. A Silver dollar is worth $1 in silver at $1.31 per troy ounce. The current silver price (March 10, 2017) is $17.01 per troy ounce so a silver dollar is worth, in melt value of about $13.15 US.
Muslim: A pound of apples please mate
Atheist: 'ere ya......
Muslim: ...... that's just one apple and it weighs two ounces.
Atheist: you're trying to impose sharaya on me! as if i can't decide what's what! My family still like me even though i decide what a pound is every morning! it's called progressive rather than stagnant! you're backwards! you simply obey your god! i'm free!
Muslim: mate, keep your apples, and i'm going to find a place where shariah is justly imposed; but if i find i get unjustly harassed by you and your scamming ilk over there - you will suffer the just consequences.
The study listed the top 10 reasons for women not reporting crimes in the UAE based on its research and ground evidence.
These were: Honour Fear of contempt of society Shame stemming from women's own vulnerability to attack Fear of retaliation Pressure from parents and family Love and jealousy No community acceptance, especially in cases involving a male friend Nomadic and tribal traditions Fear of further violence Privacy, customs and traditions for Gulf women
The study also listed the most common forms of violence experienced by women.
My point all along is that it has been proven over and over that there's a lot of crimes committed against women (rape is just one of them), that are not reported and therefore all statistics coming from Muslims Countries in this regard are totally useless.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is Islam's fault necessarily but .....
Would a Muslim father report her daughter has been raped ???
Is that too shameful for him?
Has his daughter dis-honor him and his family by being raped?
I read in India the raped woman would commit suicide so save the family honor.
I just wanted to hear it directly from Muslims themselves.
The study listed the top 10 reasons for women not reporting crimes in the UAE based on its research and ground evidence.
These were: Honour Fear of contempt of society Shame stemming from women's own vulnerability to attack Fear of retaliation Pressure from parents and family Love and jealousy No community acceptance, especially in cases involving a male friend Nomadic and tribal traditions Fear of further violence Privacy, customs and traditions for Gulf women
The study also listed the most common forms of violence experienced by women.
My point all along is that it has been proven over and over that there's a lot of crimes committed against women (rape is just one of them), that are not reported and therefore all statistics coming from Muslims Countries in this regard are totally useless.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is Islam's fault necessarily but .....
Would a Muslim father report her daughter has been raped ???
Is that too shameful for him?
Has his daughter dis-honor him and his family by being raped?
I read in India the raped woman would commit suicide so save the family honor.
I just wanted to hear it directly from Muslims themselves.
Dude its culture. The fact that you make assumptions about whether our fathers would report if rape etc happened is disturbing. "Just wanted to hear it from Muslims themselves" that's such a condescending thing to say. If you have any more sharia questions check out this blog on tumblr: partytilfajr. Dude who runs it studied islam and sharia in Egypt and knows his stuff.
The study listed the top 10 reasons for women not reporting crimes in the UAE based on its research and ground evidence.
These were: Honour Fear of contempt of society Shame stemming from women's own vulnerability to attack Fear of retaliation Pressure from parents and family Love and jealousy No community acceptance, especially in cases involving a male friend Nomadic and tribal traditions Fear of further violence Privacy, customs and traditions for Gulf women
The study also listed the most common forms of violence experienced by women.
My point all along is that it has been proven over and over that there's a lot of crimes committed against women (rape is just one of them), that are not reported and therefore all statistics coming from Muslims Countries in this regard are totally useless.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is Islam's fault necessarily but .....
Would a Muslim father report her daughter has been raped ???
Is that too shameful for him?
Has his daughter dis-honor him and his family by being raped?
I read in India the raped woman would commit suicide so save the family honor.
I just wanted to hear it directly from Muslims themselves.
@Raymann
you are one of the lousiest trolls i have come across, you have now resorted to why some people do and don''t report crimes based on the obscure opinions of some people -in order to continue your campaign of false propaganda despite having been provided with clear examples of how such incidents were reported in the time of the Prophet when he was establishing pure shariah.
Worse still, you are using the uae as an exampłe despite it having invited atheist tourism and become one of the most sexually corrupt regions in the Arab world where alcohol is openly sold and consumed, and where prostitution and drug and extacy consumption is hyped, and where the leader is a uk sandhurst military trained individual....
If you raped your mom and then your sister, would your dad report it or would he join you in screwing both? I just want to see what atheists who are comfortable with prostitution, alcoholìsm, strip clubs where "ladies" dance for "gentlemen" (as if they even know what a lady or a gentleman is) , and exploiting people through usury - think.
Is your mother a pornographic actress?
Does she take it up the @r$e?
If so, how much money does she make?
Aren't you worried she might get aids?
And then end up in hell?
@Raymann
you are one of the lousiest trolls i have come across, you have now resorted to why some people do and don''t report crimes based on the obscure opinions of some people -in order to continue your campaign of false propaganda despite having been provided with clear examples of how such incidents were reported in the time of the Prophet when he was establishing pure shariah.
Worse still, you are using the uae as an exampłe despite it having invited atheist tourism and become one of the most sexually corrupt regions in the Arab world where alcohol is openly sold and consumed, and where prostitution and drug and extacy consumption is hyped, and where the leader is a uk sandhurst military trained individual....
If you raped your mom and then your sister, would your dad report it or would he join you in screwing both? I just want to see what atheists who are comfortable with prostitution, alcoholìsm, strip clubs where "ladies" dance for "gentlemen" (as if they even know what a lady or a gentleman is) , and exploiting people through usury - think.
Is your mother a pornographic actress?
Does she take it up the @r$e?
If so, how much money does she make?
Aren't you worried she might get aids?
And then end up in hell?
He should be more worried that he himself will go to hell. It is not like he can have a conversation with his mother in hell, he will be focused exclusively on the pain he is suffering forever in hellfire and literally you feel alone in hell as each of the person in there is screaming in pain and suffering and having their bottom lips dragged on the floor from the fire. They will make sounds like donkeys and will be forced to eat from that fruit from the tree that will cut them from the inside over and over and over....I think he better wake up
you have now resorted to why some people do and don''t report crimes based on the obscure opinions of some people
I would have preferred to hear the reasons from you Muslims in the forum but you are too busy attacking my questions and hidden intentions instead of honestly admitting the problems your society faces and answer my questions straight up.
Notice how the questions I posted were not answered.
I don't asked for anything too difficult just your honest personal position.
What would you have done in the situations I proposed??? and why???
- - - Updated - - -
format_quote Originally Posted by cinnamonrolls1
Dude its culture. The fact that you make assumptions about whether our fathers would report if rape etc happened is disturbing.
Sorry if you misunderstood, maybe I didn't communicate clearly enough.
Based on the study I posted, crimes against women are not reported, that is a fact.
I didn't assume anything, I just asked if you were the father of a woman that has been raped and (you) as a Muslim:
Would you go to the police and report the crime???
Is it true that cultural reasons (shame, honor, etc) would prevent you from doing it???
Is it true that this is common in Muslim Counties???
I would have preferred to hear the reasons from you Muslims in the forum but you are too busy attacking my questions and hidden intentions instead of honestly admitting the problems your society faces and answer my questions straight up.
I've been through so many jewish hasbara trolls like yourself posing as curious atheists and seeking blind contention through vain argument despite having been shown the truth of the matter that i refuse to be led along like a moron. I used to be a credit card scammer who has even got out of police stations by hoodwinking cops so i have an idea of how manipulation works.
format_quote Originally Posted by Raymann
Notice how the questions I posted were not answered.
I don't asked for anything too difficult just your honest personal position.
What would you have done in the situations I proposed??? and why???
If you had tried pulling one of those vague questions in a court an objection of leading woukd have been raised by any practitioner of law worth their salt, and any judge worth his salt would have upheld such an exception.
Also go back through my perfectly valid questions to you on both your threads before the current contempt and notice how you chose to be selectively blind to them and chose to answer anything that could keep a stupid argument going.
Islam has a solid foundation and basis, and it also has ijtihaad based on those foundations.
Baseless hypothetical questions only hilight the negative results of lack of implementation of Islamic shariah in any land.
38. Pharaoh said: "O Chiefs! no god do I know for you but myself: therefore, O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace, that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!"
39. And he was arrogant and insolent in the land, beyond reason,- He and his hosts: they thought that they would not have to return to Us!
40. So We seized him and his hosts, and We flung them into the sea: Now behold what was the end of those who did wrong!
41. And we made them (but) leaders inviting to the Fire; and on the Day of Judgment no help shall they find.
42. in this world We made a curse to follow them and on the Day of Judgment they will be among the loathed (and despised).
43. We did reveal to Moses the Book after We had destroyed the earlier generations, (to give) Insight to men, and guidance and Mercy, that they might receive admonition.
44. Thou wast not on the Western side when We decreed the Commission to Moses, nor wast thou a witness (of those events).
45. But We raised up (new) generations, and long were the ages that passed over them; but thou wast not a dweller among the people of Madyan, rehearsing Our Signs to them; but it is We Who send apostles (with inspiration).
46. Nor wast thou at the side of (the Mountain of) Tur when we called (to Moses). Yet (art thou sent) as Mercy from thy Lord, to give warning to a people to whom no warner had come before thee: in order that they may receive admonition.
47. If (We had) not (sent thee to the Quraish),- in case a calamity should seize them for (the deeds) that their hands have sent forth, they might say: "Our Lord! why didst Thou not sent us an apostle? We should then have followed Thy Signs and been amongst those who believe!" 48. But (now), when the Truth has come to them from Ourselves, they say, "Why are not (Signs) sent to him, like those which were sent to Moses?" Do they not then reject (the Signs) which were formerly sent to Moses? They say: "Two kinds of sorcery, each assisting the other!" And they say: "For us, we reject all (such things)!"
49. Say: "Then bring ye a Book from Allah, which is a better guide than either of them, that I may follow it! (do), if ye are truthful!"
50. But if they hearken not to thee, know that they only follow their own lusts: and who is more astray than one who follow his own lusts, devoid of guidance from Allah. for Allah guides not people given to wrong-doing.
51. Now have We caused the Word to reach them themselves, in order that they may receive admonition.
52. Those to whom We sent the Book before this,- they do believe in this (revelation):
53. And when it is recited to them, they say: "We believe therein, for it is the Truth from our Lord: indeed we have been Muslims (bowing to Allah.s Will) from before this.
54. Twice will they be given their reward, for that they have persevered, that they avert Evil with Good, and that they spend (in charity) out of what We have given them.
55. And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant."
56. It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.
57. They say: "If we were to follow the guidance with thee, we should be snatched away from our land." Have We not established for them a secure sanctuary, to which are brought as tribute fruits of all kinds,- a provision from Ourselves? but most of them understand not.
58. And how many populations We destroyed, which exulted in their life (of ease and plenty)! now those habitations of theirs, after them, are deserted,- All but a (miserable) few! and We are their heirs!
59. Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its centre an apostle, rehearsing to them Our Signs; nor are We going to destroy a population except when its members practise iniquity.
I've been through so many jewish hasbara trolls like yourself posing as curious atheists
That's called a prejudist assumption.
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
seeking blind contention through vain argument despite having been shown the truth
Again, no answers under the fear of being manipulated into a taboo topic, but still claiming the truth has been shown.
I came for your personal opinions not to be shown a link which I could have found myself
Why are you guys so defensive ?
What are you so afraid of ?
It's only a discussion.
Im so confused man... What even are your questions?
Thanks for asking.
Based on my research in many Muslim countries a woman who accuses a man of rape automatically is admitting having sex with the rapist (that's how some police interpret it).
In most cases (according to statistics) the rape case is going to be dismissed.
But now she can be accused of adultery or fornication as many real cases have shown.
My question:
Do Muslims trust the justice system and report rape cases?
The risks are:
Being charged with adultery or fornication.
Social shame.
Family honor.
Even getting killed by her own family.
Thanks for asking.
Based on my research in many Muslim countries a woman who accuses a man of rape automatically is admitting having sex with the rapist (that's how some police interpret it).
In most cases (according to statistics) the rape case is going to be dismissed.
But now she can be accused of adultery or fornication as many real cases have shown.
My question:
Do Muslims trust the justice system and report rape cases?
The risks are:
Being charged with adultery or fornication.
Social shame.
Family honor.
Even getting killed by her own family.
Thanks for you reply
Well "Muslims" are not just one huge giant group with the same opinions and fixation on honour etc. Some may be backwards and close minded and rather have an injustice happen than risk their reputation. And a lot may want to report it to police as what is it is: forced non consensual intercourse. There is no way islamically rape is considered adultery. Adultery is consensual premaritial sex or cheating on your spouse.
I'm gonna finish with this verse from the Quran (4:135)
"O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted."
I think just like with anything, there is a mix of opinions. I would say most Muslims would trust the justice system. Speaking for myself personally i would say i don't trust justice systems all the time. I mean Sudan was recently protested against heavily for wantkng to execute a girl who killed her rapist in self defense. So, sorry to be biased, but i do not trust Sudan's justice system.
I feel like i wasn't clear enough. I trust justice systems basically all the time. Sometimes not though. As was the case i previously spoke about in sudan
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He should be more worried that he himself will go to hell. It is not like he can have a conversation with his mother in hell, he will be focused exclusively on the pain he is suffering forever in hellfire and literally you feel alone in hell as each of the person in there is screaming in pain and suffering and having their bottom lips dragged on the floor from the fire. They will make sounds like donkeys and will be forced to eat from that fruit from the tree that will cut them from the inside over and over and over....I think he better wake up
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