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Thread: Ancient Mecca

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    Ancient Mecca (OP)


    Could someone please direct me to some historical record or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca existed prior to the 4th century AD?

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    Re: Ancient Mecca

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonJohnson View Post
    Indeed. Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    I have a couple more replies to you waiting for moderation.
    Yes, a person can delude himself into thinking he is good, but an introspection will bring out he is evil. Such as those who want to deny Palestinians justice by supporting and favouring Israel, but when they need support from Muslims, they pretend they want justice for Palestinians too!:

    The 'humanitarian' deception.
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:56 PM.

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    Re: Ancient Mecca

    Hello RonJohnson,

    Quote Originally Posted by RonJohnson View Post
    I already pointed out the geographical impossibility of Abraham ever having been within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually settled and that he lived over 1,000 years before overland travel was possible to that area.
    Firstly, something does not become 'impossible' based upon interpretations and presumptions. You will have noted that the Q&A linked to earlier, which you were responding to, clearly mentions:

    'We cannot deny the fact that there are different interpretations of these texts of the Torah and so on, and that the context is open to different interpretations. Our aim here here is to confirm that such indications exist. However, the matter should be left to scholars to examine the story in the Old Testament, in order to reach a definitive conclusion.'

    At the end of the day, regardless of how one interprets the Biblical verses, it is the Qur'an which confirms the truthfulness in the Bible, not the other way round. Even if, for the sake of argument, one claims that there is no evidence from the Bible or more ancient historical records for the existence of Makkah prior to the 4th century AD, this does not affect Muslims in any way. This is because the most truthful sources from which one can take news about its history are the Noble Qur’an and the authentic prophetic narrations in this regard, and from these we can ascertain its ancient history as well as how it was prior to the message and Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم .

    Even so, Muslim scholars and historians have endeavoured to record chronicles of Makkah in general history books as well as books concerned with the biographies of the Muslim scholars who lived in it. One of the scholars who is considered to be the most prolific author regarding it and its history was Imam Taqiyyud-Deen Al-Fasi Al-Makki رحمه الله (775 AH - 832 AH). One of the largest books he authored was “The Treasured Necklace on the History of the Secure City” which consisted of eight volumes. There is also ongoing research to recognise its history - the abstract of Professor Heba M.I.M. Aboul-Enein's study of the archaeological history of Makkah mentions:

    '...To achieve the intended objective, the study recourses to archaeological; historical, and linguistic evidence to validate the hypothesis that this city existed in ancient times. The research relies on recent excavations, archaeological surveys in Saudi Arabia; academic works of archaeologists, local newspaper reports of archaeological finds, and trips of Saudi explorers. In addition, ancient and contemporary references, western accounts of Makkah, the bible and Jewish religious books, Islamic and Arabic references are examined in an effort to reconcile the religious texts with recent archaeological finds. The book also reviews the recent results of aerial archaeology of the region. The study proves based on recent archaeological finds that Makkah is an ancient city that was inhabited by early humans in varied historical eras'
    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...City_of_Makkah

    A lot is quoted from al-Bukhari but that was not penned until over a hundred years after Muhammad lived, and was created without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 5th century AD, yet the author speaks to things that were supposed to have taken place many thousands of years before he penned the book. This seems to pretty convincingly disconnect Islamic "tradition" from historical record.
    To clarify your apparent confusion here, Sahih al-Bukhari is not the words of Imam al-Bukhari himself. It is a compilation of authentic Prophetic narrations, and as mentioned above, that is a trustworthy source for any information without the need for reference to historical records. Therefore, we have no hesitation in accepting what we are informed of through the Qur'an as well as the Hadith, concerning not only many thousands of years ago, but even before the earth itself was created as well as after it will cease to exist. It should also be borne in mind that whilst the Sahih of al-Bukhari was not written during the lifetime of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم, Hadith were transmitted orally and were collected in writing during the life of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم himself. It was only their compilation into collections on a wide and systematic scale which occurred later.

    He quotes Bukhari 3425 which apparently suggests there were 40 years between the building of the Kaaba and Al Masjid Al Aqsa. But the latter was built in 688 AD on the temple mount, that the Jews built on mount Moriah about 3,000 years ago, on which they built their temple to the Lord (that was torn down by the Romans in 70AD). So was Adam supposed to have lived about 3,040 years ago?
    There is a disagreement among historians as to who built al-Aqsa Mosque. It appears that according to one opinion, it existed before Sulaymaan عليه السلام and that Sulaymaan rebuilt it. Allah knows Best.
    You may wish to see: https://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/P...ang=E&Id=83441

    When the Quraish built the Kaaba they "ran short of money"?
    The Ka'bah has been rebuilt on several occasions, but always on the same foundation built upon by Ibraaheem عليه السلام. One of these renovations occurred a few years before Prophet Muhammad's صلى الله عليه وسلم prophethood. Although this was before the time of the Quranic Revelation, the people of Quraysh made a pledge not to use money made from impure sources, such as prostitution, usury and other types of bad dealing or injustice. For this reason, they ran out of funds and were not able to cover the "Hateem area" of the Ka'bah, which remains exposed to this day.
    Last edited by Muhammad; 1 Week Ago at 10:51 AM.
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